Gubaba

Well, you said he should consider such things before creating characters that people would identify with. I was suggesting that his head was in a different place when he said that than when he was creating Rorschach. I was quoting this, not trying to be offensive. Sorry. This is a thread about the movie, and I was talking about the comic. I was also talking about "From Hell." No. I didn't have to see "Meet the Spartans" to know that it wouldn't be my thing, either. Nothing I've heard or seen about this movie has made me think I'll like it. I don't like big Hollywood action movies, I don't like the director's other works, and what I love most about Watchmen is A) the way "Tales of the Black Freighter" intertwines with the main story, B) all of issue 4, for the clarity of showing how Jon is unstuck in time, C) all of issue 5, for the symmetry of the pages, C) the backup material, D) the two detectives and the news vendor, E) the scene when Laurie has her big revelation (and throws the perfume bottle), and F) how everyone in the tenement fire (including Laurie) is being a total prick about everything. Oh, and I haven't talked to anyone in "real life" who has liked it. Given all that, do you really think I should give it a chance?

Yeah, but Wolverine's got claws! That's cool! Rorschach's just got a lame grappling gun and a hat...and he eats uncooked beans. Noisily.

You ARE joking, right? The only way they could get Alan Moore to write it was by dangling this carrot in front of him, and then making damn sure that it never happened. The original plan was for the trade paperback to be in print for a year or two, then DC would cancel it, and Alan Moore would publish it himself. And then DC had a change of heart, and violated the spirit (if not the letter) of the agreement. Imagine if that had happened with, say, Dark Side of the Moon..."Yeah, we'll give you royalties on it as soon as we stop producing it." Pink Floyd would've never made a cent on that album.

Give the guy a break...From Hell was written almost ten years after Watchmen, and was done from a very different perspective (From Hell, while certainly bleak, is, I think, nowhere near as nihilistic as Watchmen). Besides he made Rorschach ugly, unhygenic, poor, nasty, brutish, and short. Not exactly the kind of "hero" most people would gravitate towards, and definitely not the kind most people would idealize. Back on topic, I haven't seen the movie, but I talked to a bunch of friends today who had, and who all thought it was...not terrible, exactly, but not really worthwhile either. After they explained the differences, I really decided I'm not going to see the movie.

Don't you mean ? And of course the graphic novel's still available! Do you think DC would miss out on the chance to cash in? Besides, as soon as it goes out of print, all the rights revert to Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, and that's the LAST thing DC wants...

Well, you could always buy the book instead of waiting for my translation...

So...consensus is that the Robotech Masters would pwn everyone else, right?

...or his diet...or his smell... I will admit though, then when I first read Watchmen when I was twelve or thirteen or so (man, if my parents had only known!), I thought Rorschach was the "hero," probably because he had the most action in the story. Older and wiser now, I'm rather repulsed by him.

Then you'll feel the Info High, right?

If endings are so incredibly simple to write, why do most anime endings suck?

I have the TIA book, but it's packed away...and I haven't looked at it in many, many years. It's fairly standard...lots of shots from the show, some original art, line art, sheet music, and some really bizarre pudgy-loli pics.

Yeah. I suck, don't I?

If my saying the words "icky" and "poo poo" doesn't telegraph that I'm being sarcastic, I don't know what will.

From me? Yes. It'll be the first thing I tackle after I finish SDF Macross, Dreaming Prelude, White Reminiscences, the SDFM novelization trilogy, Miss DJ, Distantly Fading Memories, Macross Love, Macross Classic, DYRL, the DYRL novelization, FB2012, Macross the First, Macross II, the Macross II comic, the Macross II novels, Macross Plus, the Macross Plus novel, Macross 7, the Macross 7 drama albums, the Macross 7 and Plus movies, Macross Dynamite 7, the Macross Dynamite 7 novels, Mylene Beat, Macross Generation, and Macross Zero. So expect scans sometime in 2013.

God yes, a total disaster! Just like the final episode of SDFM (which Kawamori wrote). What a lame, sucky, icky, no-good, poo-poo writer he is!

Again, I think a lot of the logic connections are rooted in assumptions. An example: when the show started, the Vajra were portrayed as the villains. After Ohnogi took over, the Vajra were revealed as not hostile, but rather manipulated by Galaxy. Is that Ohnogi's doing as well? I'm sure some twists were planned from the beginning, and didn't change. Others were surely altered, perhaps by Ohnogi, perhaps by someone else on the staff. Television is never a one-man show, no matter how often a single person takes the credit (or the blame). Again, that's based on your interpretation of both the conversation and what Ohnogi did with (or, perhaps closer to your point, to) the series. He didn't blast in; he was invited by Kawamori. They've been good friends since college, have worked together often, and most likely will continue to work together. You may believe Kawamori was betrayed, but there's no indication that anyone involved in the show's production feels that way. And we'll never know what the show would've been like without Ohnogi. We can guess, but to say that everything you thought didn't fit is all Ohnogi's doing seems, as I said, a little unfair. If you look at the episodes of SDFM that Ohnogi wrote, it's a good list (for the record: "Kung-Fu Dandy," "Micro Cosmos," "Drop Out," "Viva Maria," "Broken Heart," and "Private Time"); some of the most affecting charcter-driven episodes in the whole series. He's a good writer (I even liked the character interactions in Zero, although I seem to be in the minority there). The father-daughter dinner that opens "Misa Hayase: White Reminiscnces" is a deft, clever scene that really shows the coldness and awkwardness of the relationship between Misa and her father. What you call "shipping his favorite character," I call, "taking the character with the greatest potential and making her live up to it." Honest difference of opinion, I suppose... And, as Azrael hinted at, I'm happier with the harem ending than with Sheryl scooping up Alto, leaving Ranka and the dust, and causing all the most obnoxious of the Sheryl fans to crow and cheer and rub everyone's noses in how right they were.

Yeah, I think five volumes seems to be what they're aiming for. As for Aoki's art quality, I think the characters are actually beginning to LOOK like the characters, and not a bunch of 7-year-olds cosplaying. The mecha still isn't all that great, though. That said, when he does a humorous story, like the "Macross F Outside Story" in Macross Ace, I think his art style is perfect.

Enh, been there, done that. Instead, let's argue about which of the main SDFM Episode writers got the best tribute... 1. Hiroshi Ohnogi got a city named after him. 2. Kenichi Matsuzaki got a (very unflattering) character based on him. 3. Sukehiro Tomita got to write A LOT more Macross. And of course, Shoji Kawamori got the whole franchise, so let's leave him out of the running.

It's kind of amazing, though, isn't it? The man responsible for arguably* the most lackluster love triangles in Macross history is also responsible for the most passionately debated one... *The word "arguably" has been added on the advice of my lawyers, who inform me that I will get ripped to shreds by people unconvinced by Basara-Mylene-Gamlin and Ishtar-Hibiki-Sylvie if I don't include it.

I agree with almost everything you said, but... A couple of nitpicky caveats: First, I would credit the successful drama of Plus more to the writer (Keiko Nobumoto, who also wrote a lot of the best Cowboy Bebop episodes) than to Kawamori. And second, Ohnogi was the main writer for Macross Zero, so any problems with the love triangle can most likely be laid at his feet.

Okay...it's a little OT, but this is the second time I've come across a mention of novelzations written by Ohnogi. The only ones I've been able to find are by Toshiki Inoue...even Japanese Wikipedia and Amazon.co.jp only list him as writing "Misa Hayase: White Reminiscnces." Am I missing something...? The stuff about Ohnogi's wife came (I believe) from the Frontier "liner notes" posted on Macross Generation, which Magnuskn kindly translated into English and posted on animesuki.

Yes, but little boys who want to see other little boys (or slightly older boys) driving giant robots, they've got many, many, MANY options. Little girls who like giant robots can turn to Southern Cross, and...where, exactly? Iczer-One? Dangaioh? Gall Force? I don't see anything wrong with a single show portraying non-sex-kitten girls piloting robots, wile all the guys are second-rate. Think of it as equal time for Sayla getting the Gundam's foot chopped off.

I think they can; it's a different medium, with different strengths and weaknesses. I don't think the great be-all, end-all, comparable to Homer, Dante, and Shakespeare comic has been written yet. However, I don't doubt that someday it will be.

I kind of hope they do, too. As I said, the artist is improving, but he's still not quite up to snuff in my estimation. And the whole fight is way too short.

Final Vegeta, I've been trying to come up with a response to your thoughts, but I really can't...there's too much speculation and too many assumptions, and I can't quite get a firm grasp on the facts here. I also wish Ranka had been presented better, especially in the later episodes of the series (I was really pulling for her...Sheryl's a great character, but it's her nature to overwhelm anyone around her). If you don't like what Ohnogi did with her, fine. But it really seems to be unwarrented to accuse him of betraying Kawamori, or suggest that he's personally unappealing. Unless you're a close confidant of the Macross F staff, you really have no way of knowing this. Likewise, are you sure that the "Minmay can't talk to Hikaru, and Misa's cleaning up his place" situation is solely Ohnogi's doing? if so, where did you find this information? Personally, I think of Ohnogi (and Tomita) as the unsung heroes of Macross...rarely celebrated, rarely even mentioned, but adding immeasurably to Macross in many, many ways. Right now, I'm working on Ohnogi's novel about Misa, and while it's difficult, I'm finding it quite rewarding. He's a good writer, and (like anyone working in a compromised medium like television) while he has his fair share of "misses"," he also has a huge number of successes (including Orguss, L-Gaim, and Zeta Gundam). Anyway, my point is that you're getting angry at a straw man of your own creation. If it comes out that everything you think is Ohnogi's fault really IS his fault, then okay. Blast away. But until that time, it's unfair and unwarranted to do so.