Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0

Hewy David...can teh strike eagle without the bomb pods and Lantinrs bolted on,,,dogfigtht just as well as the F-15C? I know its always touted as a dual role strike fighter but I also heard since it has permanenet CFTs, it cant go accelerate 90 degrees vetical. I would hate ton think that the dogfighting ability of the strike eagle was like gone.. I do know the eagle itself is an energy fighter BU i just want to know fi the strike ewagle could still turn n burn with the best fo them n such.

thats actually not what I heard mike. It cant outspeed the falcon and certainly cant out turn it g for g not turn into it. I think the air force is doin the rigiht thing by getting F-16s and F-15s as interims till they can get newer planes. Those planes are awesome and very very capable yet. THe JSF on the other hand...Yes I did describe it like an F1117 and it can do a tad bit more....but it certainly cant defend itself well. You have to understand for a multirole plane like its hyped up to be I would expect it to be versatile in the same vein as theF-16 and the hornet. Did everyone forget that the F-16 can mount 6-8 AMRAAMs?! hell even now most of them either have 2 sidewinders, 2 AMRAAM, and bombload or 2AMRAAM, and bombload! the thing fits ona sidewinder point people! IN temrs of my comparison with teh F1117N it would have been supersonic and dogfight capable...but it wasnt that feasible hence it eas canned. Looked awesome though! THe only thing the JSF has got ove rthe F-16 is stealth...I dont even think it can match its payload. THe JSF has stealth ove rthe reuglar hornet. IN no way can the JSF replace the F14 i might have implied it bnit I did not mean it. Not evn close... BUt Like I said when I think multirole I think bad ass can do it all . I think falcon or hornet. a plane that can DO BVR, kill up close, and bom,b and do it all over again. Can the JSF do this? it justifiyable that a plane that only has stealth and a lesser payload and not the air attack capability replace planes that only lack stealth and can do the job with bigger weapons and self excort themselves? I think not. I have alwyas thought this and still do...stealth is the main selling point ofg the amn thing. The marines version cna be weasily converted into a dedicated gun wielding CAS plane. but with the nacy and airforce that damn thing will never be able to do the multirole as well as the falcon orhoenet....only do it less with more evasion. I think the A-7 is actually more manueverable than the F117. THe FB22 seems liek a great idea. I would afctulaly prefer more F-22s to JSFs. F-22 can do the mission better and can get back. The only dawback is price. NOW when I hear F-22 THAT to me is an ideal F-15/16 replacement. A fighter that can fight, self escort, outturn and outgun the F-16, and F-15, bonb with precision, use STEALTH and make it back home. Capability should always be chosen over price which is why me david and a few others always bring up in other threads how the super hornet cant beat the F-14 and in this thread hwo the JSF can do SOME things but not the things its all hype dup to be. bTW they never publicly stated this on TYV but the JSF from the start was to be 70% ground attack. It was never expected to be air superiority BUT why am i complaining? FOr a plane multirole replacing the hornet and falcon YOU need to retain the capabilitties of those 2 fighters into the successor! is this happeneing? hell no!

id rather thave it 1/60 so its in scqale with teh VF-1 toys...I mean its closer in time period too...in scale with macross plus would mean a smaller toyt tna 1/60 and atr the same time a scale common with the p[lus toys which are generations apart. Keep it " in the family" so to speak.

Hmmm ya know I dont think we should expect much. I mean they said form the start they wanted this thing cheap and well it is cheap/. Being the size of a VF1B in battroid mode is cool and as long as the materials are sturdy and durable then I have nno problem with it. So with that in mind considering its price as well...I think its a tad bit overpriced but still not bad. NOw if this was 9800 yen then I would be real pissed.

had the NAvy had gone along with ASF-14 tomcat 21 or quickstrike...they would have a fighter that surpassed even the original tomcat..but also the A-6~! Not to mention relative upgrades to full quickstrike standard or tomcat 21 would have bneen a lot cheaper than buying a stup[id hornet. IN terms of JSF it still doesnt boge well for me...sure when I first heard about it in high school I thoguht ti woudl be the take all names multitrole flick of the switch ass kicker..but now this is not so. It cant even outmanuever an F-16 and like I said stealth aint worth crap in a dogfight. Id actually feel pissed if I was flying the F-16F and got demoted to the JSF. Now if the JSF had a dedicated ACM suite and could outspeed and outturn the viper, then I would love the plane. But it cant and for that reason its stupid to be somewat a replacement. In terms of harrier I agree with David...a JSF bubble retrofit and gun with sidewinder provisions on external ports would be kick ass. the F-15 ACTIV idea is actually cool. I love that design and it seems awesome. IN some ways I like the F-15 better than the raptor since its a classic plane and for its time had so much raw power and could run and gunw ith teh best of them til this day....also since its a lot more of a challenge to fly using conventional flight controls and not relying on stealth...so its not as easy which is awesome to me. Another Idea I had was to take the Yf23 out of storage, and add provisions and retest it for qualifications as a next gen naval ATF. It doesnt have as much technological stuff compared to the raptor I believe so maybe it would be cheaper and it could certainly haul the stupid hornets ass AND possibly carry phoenix missles internally saving a shitload of drag. Not to mention it was naturalyl stealthy in radar and IR and highly manueverable and fast. Theres a reason its in storage right?

I say CAN the JSf altogether, divert funds to the marines and NAvy to develop a advanced tactiacal strike fighter with emphasis on outdoing the tomcat and nuclear strike and bombing capability surpassing the intruder, making all Fa-18 F squadrons diverted to the FAGS(fighter attack guyscommunity aka F-18A/C pilots) and letting the airforce continue its block 60 upgrades to the F-16F and such! badqass? and more capable US military? I say YES! oh yhea did i forget to mention advanced stealth self excorting CAS emphasis gun laden harrier replace,ent? o i just did!

ahh JSF....I dub thee...the SUCK! man the AF1117 would have been much better!(naval knighthwak with supersonic capability. gun and missles along with standard usual LGBs.)

I think the X-32 was only faste thats it. Beats it in the ugly category though.

thats godo enough.....i mena its at least an estimate that we can take and add a lil take a lil when shipping is added in.

io have no clue. The person who said camshaft was hte name was a hasbro person on the phone when someone called the information line or something. or whichever line is it you call when one of your toys breaks or something. in ters of the source for him not being camshaft i imagine is ahigh level hasbro employee. TFW is never wrong when it comes to getting info from hasbro.

nope not really. You have to thinkabotu the time period. The only thing that pised people off about the tomcat was 1-price 2-Tf30 P412 engine. The plane UNLIKE the hornet could outdo its predecesor the phantom in just about EVERTHING. Also the navy was faced with either the F11B or the F14...until admiral conoly had the balls to say the F11B was a POS and the F-14 was born. (F-111s cant do fleet defence...crap phantoms can do better!) ONe more thing about yhow commonality makes the navy suffer...the navy always WANTS 2 engine planes...the JSF has one....considering how it has no provisions for a sidewiner( i also read in a book that the internal carriage cant accomodate them well either since it blocks the ir seekerhead) and how it does not have a gun...this makes it INFERIOR to the proposed and tested A-7F SUPERSONIC corsair! Ive said it ebfore and said it again...planes which replace older planes shoujld be BETTER not have one feature that is better. The JSF is a sample plane to m whos main selling point is OoOoOoO stealth. oh yea nda you cant dogfitght with an AMRAAm. Sure chances arwe JSF pilots would never get into a knifefight since the CAp fihters would ahev eliminated the threatr but crap happens. A-7-Axed A-7F supersonic corsair-F-18-JSF holy crap the strike fighter pilots in the USN now will know how tomcat pilots feel! and evben though peolpe might have bitched abou the tomcat and thunderbolt...to this day there is no plane that can full well replace them and OUTdo them in ALL categories....i gbuess those days were the days of the teen fighters...back when fighters could knowck the crap out of thei prededecessors/

I think yamato might tampo print the decals since stickers are rarely used on PVC(think gundma fix). I too donot like the price but I do remember hearing that in fighter mode, its the same size as the VF11. or at least the same height in battroid. Which would be cool but Why am i pessimistic now? meh who knows. Didnt hobbey dengeki fgive the msrp to be 4000yen?

later confirmed by Tfw2005 as NOT being named camshaft.

wow man thats stupid...taking a cannon away from a rafale! crap eben the ruissian planes all have cannons!(all teh fighters) IN terms of the Mig 15 I think in many ways it was superior but was definitely not thee ultimate better plane. Hell skyraiders shot that thing down in vietnam and an A-4 nabbed it with zunis. I think the mig and sabre were neck and neck its really close. comparing them is nothing like comparing the phantom to the crusader. In terms of EF2000 I really hope they did not delete the mauser cannon on ANY version! crap eve the tornado its suppposed to replace even the armed recon version still retains 2 cannons! IN terms of JSF I still think it will flop and ultimately be a waste of money. Who are they kidding. you mineswell jsut keep building more f117s since they do what the JSf is suppposed to do anywyas @jdams=2lgbs on f117. Not much difference.

Hey jason c. A lot o us want this damn thing but hate the price. Can your toynami neighbor comment on the price? If the beta is so friggin huge i imagine the price would be ver 100$....wouldnt you want the alpha at 40 and the beta t 80? instead of alpha at 80 and beta at 120?

oh crap defniitely does happen. Sparrow laden phantom jocks where in a shock when peasant migs were ambnushing and OUTutning them! and then when right in front..the phantoms couldnt get a kill due to lack of cannon. So i wouldnt say 90% of the time they dont need the cannon I thinkits more along the lines of 75% just to be safe. Oh and graham the F-14D tomcat was the first navy pane equipped with an IRST. Anyon know if Ef2000 has a mauser cannon in all versions? I heard some were abandoning it which is a shame since the damn thing is so nimble. IN terms of the Vf=-1 it has crap for rear visibility but is smaller and much more manueverable not to mention has RELIABLE engines compared to VF-0. VF-0 is not any advanced compared to it...look at ti and its like an older plane...I mean its a lot bigger and heavier, has crappier engines, and is nowhere near as aerodynamically "correct" but i still think it looks cool because it bridges the gap between conventional nuke VF and modern jet fighters. The only thing its got over the VF-1 is a bubblke canopy.

Hey Graham when will yamato let loose the promo press photos they always put out? Ya know like those real nice pics they always give out like the 1/48 preview ones....when you and shawn first unveiled it in april 02? I really want to see what the VF-0 would look like in those photos.

Ya knwo out of all yamatos toys this is the cheapest and mos affordable and from the start was made to be simple. If it was 1.48 scale I would definitely be complaining about how ugly it is. I think it loooks decent again i was not expecting much and the landing gear on mine will most liely be off most of the time. I wish we could have fully painted pics with the missles and FAst packs attacched. NOw that would probably change some minds but like I said, its not a 1.48 scale toy so again i was not expecting perfection. And I do agree however..if its swap transformation I would expect good proportions too.

yes but that doesnt mean a gun aint needed no more. If the JSF is to be multirole and replace some F-16s it needs a cannon just in case. Internal would be better to sav on drag crap the A-7 even had a vulcan and we know that thing ...well look at it. uhmmmmmmmmm yea missles are cheap and stealth is effective but the whole point is stealth is being relieed upon too much. This is not the case with teh F22 B 2 and F117...the JSF itself does not have a dictated role like the previous planes I have mentioned. The JSF is soemthing of an all in one wonder plane which is really an all in one SAMPLER plane...sure it can do stuff but only a lil bit of each...if stealth is the main emphasis then that thing is a waste of money. Now had it been a dedicated striker like the A-7 then yes good itll do its thing but no its not its a kjack of all trades that cant do all trades. NO matter how good stealth is a gun will ALWAYs be needed on ANY plane that might put up a fight in a knifefight. YEs the Su 27 fanker series might be able to outmanuever the F-15 but have you played the sims? Sure they cant give all teh classififed info away but they give you at least an impression..im not talking about US navy fighters im talking about janes f15 and ssi flanker. Now I will tell you no matter how much the russians SAYT the Su37 is manueverable and such whichevr pilot is knifefighting in that thing will havea much harder time flying than his F-15 mudeagle opponent. The flanker moves good for a big ass plane but its avionics are crap. Not only are they hard to work with they take a lot of SA away from the battle nad you need that to wina fight. The pilot looking down at his IR seeker scope or radar LCD will be the one usually killed first. Note the flanker does not have HOTAS controls. And chances are the cobra and culbit would never be pulled off in a dogfight. I dont thnk any good US military pilot who has at least a basic grasp of dogfighting would ever fall for the cobra trick and get in the sights of the flanker pilot. Theres a reason why while you get close...gotta keep distance as well. AS david said in an earlier thread thrust vectoring n the flanker wouldnt relaly work as well as its hyped up on tv. The F22 actually uses it better. To really improve the JSf you need more hardpoints and an internal cannon as well as at least the capability to carry 4 amraams, 2 sidewinders and a vulcan with 400 rounds. SOme ass kick minimally.

ZBTW the A-6 was never truly replaced...the best replacement would have been Tomcat 21 quickstrike with the same payload and enough AAms to self excort as well as nuke capability, supercruise, AND the fact that it could be made form existing tomcat frames. and the super hornet is cheap? mah ass! BTW the JSF isnt even close to being superior to the F/a-18c. 2 jdams? the hell is that minimalism?

Dogfighting will never be replaced no matte how advnaced BVR technology advances. A lot fo phantom pilots could have been aces had they not been reliant on the sparrow and had a gun in vietnam. The israelis got a few gun kills with phantoms during the yom kippur war. We really ddi get our asses handed to us in vietnam the kill ratio from 13/1 to 2/1 is really embarrassing. Post vietnam we had tomcat crews earn 4 kills. Those were almost ALL sidewinder.(not sure if the VF-32 crew who first fired nabbed the flogger with the sparrow). Sure stealth is beneficial but the way they are doing it with teh F-35 is STUPID. Replacing a falcon with that POS is garbage. It cant evn don sidewinders! HEll now that david mentioned it...even a F-105 RTHUD has beter dogfighitng ability! and that aint stealth and sure as hell wasnt really made for air supreiority!(multirol JSF MY ASS this thing is just a more manueverable F-1117 descendant in my eyes) Sure stealth can save lives..to an extent. We have to keep in mind its been long rumored the nighthawk shot down over kosovo/bosnia was downed by a MIg 29 pilot. It does nto matter whethere people think communism is dead. communism doesnt seem dead but to me the threat of russian planes never died out in the cold war...you can tell me "oh shin your pro tomcat anti cheney views are bogus cold war is over no bear bombers are a threat" but a lot of poeople seem to foget that the minute we lower our priorities we get our ases handed to us. "oh dogfighting is so world war 2 jjohnny we can nab them commies with a sparrow!" and in vietnam at one point 55% of the sparrow kills in one year were FRIENDLY fire! not to mention the failure rate for the damn thing was a lot higher. A active seeker does not automatically mean a kill. Its known that sidewinders have a better kill ratio than BVR missles. Let us remember people countries by russian made eqipment...and some rogue countrie or faction could buy a whole bunch of crap under our noses and next thing you nknow a restored bacckfire is the next threat. The whole point of planes replacing previous planes is advancement in technology and capability OVER the previous plane! the JSF solves nothing except for adding stealth and being a common plane! can the F18 stupid hornet be better than the tomcat? nope. cCan the JSF replace the F-16 and a-10? it can btu it dont mean by all means it does a better job. art this point the harrier is even a better dogfighter able to carry MORE amraams and SIDEWINDERS! as well as ahving an internal gun. JSF sucks more i think about it. no mnatter what...once BVR is relied on too much and stealth as well watch...we'll have stealth pilots shot down by cannon fire. Remember people stealth is not invisibility. Seems to me the only new stelath plane doing it right is the F-22. Dogfighting is a facet of fighter flying that should NEVER be forgottenb! theres a REASON the F-8 pilots were prestigiously known over the years! and there kill ratio in vietnam was UNMATCHED! dogfighitng weill never cease to exist..theres always a way around an amraam. gotta go close in sometimes if you reallt want to kill something dead/.

The block 60 falcons have a huge ass spine and more range and maybe upped avionics. The foreign version for israel is the F-16I. If anything itr looks bad ass. And the decision to not arm the F-35B/C with an internal cannon is so stupid. Didnt ANYONE LEARN from the phantom jocks in vietnam? jesus christ its vietnam all over again! Eventualy soemthing mgith happen where the F-22s are tangeled in a big as dogfight and the F-356s get suckered into one nad run out of sidewinders and asraams...stealth aint crap in a close in dogfight. Sheesh as if the lessopn could not be repeated once again.... the minute you orget what happens history repeats itself. This hoo ha ovver stealth...screw it lets go badck to the time when planes could whup ass and come back in one piece(yes i know for stealth the probability is much nhigher but i feel reliance on the damn thing is costing us taxpayers shitloads of money and at the same time is a bit overhyped dont ya think?). IM so glad the A-10 aint being phased out for a while that beast still got some fight left in her.

its proven most toy reps dont no squat. Tons of fans called mattel for MOTu info pretoyfair and a lot of the reps on the phone said MOTU would be at toyfair. Fast forward to toyfiar where its not there. Also a hasbro tour guide didnt no anything abou teh gijoes she was giving a group a tour of. A fan in the group evben had to correct her on a pilot name in one of the new planes! So with that in mind I think we would get more viable info here rather than a rep at a fest.

I didnt expect much after all its a simple transformation and relatively cheap. The gear are ugly but chances are id porbably make a stanmd for it in fighter mode. The hips yes are ugly but they are being made smaller..i really hoipe there is an interlocking mechanism ofd the hips so that they dont slip out like the 1/60 VF-1 over time. The head sculpt is awesome and I think the battroid mode is actually better than fighter this time around...definitely better without the gear on.

Ya know the funny thing is the air force is actally the smart one here. Where as the navy and marines are using almost ALL F-35s aside from the navy having super hornets...the airforce is STILL keeping a LOT of F-15s and F-16ws as well as A-10s in service some till the 2030s. This is the first time I actually think the air force is doin the best and right thing(im a navy brat so sue me). And while I think the F-35 is decent..I still think its being shoved down everyoens throats for ease of use and cheapness. Its a replacement or the F-16 yet its not as manueverable nor as fast and has less payload and maybe less range than a block 60. Its a replae ment for normal F-18s and again lacks the power speed and payload. I used to think commonality was dead and it really should be. Watch if we go into the next war...pilots who fly non gunpod equipped JSFs will be saying'man we couida had him if we had a gun!" Much like vietnam F-4 vets who could have become aces so easily when the migs jumped them and showed yup RIGHT in front of them....20 mike mike would have nailed them in half but this was in the early 60s when guns equipped F4s were still nort in service. Commonality syucks.