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Countdown until the Shogakukun Macross Package Art Collection Book is released! 
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SebastianP

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Everything posted by SebastianP

  1. Part of that may have to do with Covid, and part with a move towards doing more things through P-bandai (which may also be because covid.) We've gotten 8 retail-release MG kits over the past three years (3 in 2020, 3 in 2021, and 2 in 2022), but the year before that (2019) we got seven. Also, Bandai is building a new factory that'll be online in the next couple of years. Anyway, what would count as an MG for Macross? Transforming 1/72 kits?
  2. I would imagine there's also a bit of "you'd need to design the airframe around the weapon" involved as well. In real life, conformal carriage of missiles has hung on for quite some time, with even some of the new Asian indigenous 5-th gen fighters sporting conformal missiles rather than internal bays in the public concept art, but real fighter aircraft have relatively large flat undersurfaces which don't have to break apart in order to transform into a robot. There's very few places in the later designs that would allow conformal carriage of missiles because the good surfaces to put them on would separate during transformation. The VF-4 appears to be an evolutionary dead end, given how few of its major features seem to have carried over to future fighters - no conformal missile carriage, no big built-in beam guns, no apparent re-use of the transformation schema, etc; compared to the Stonewell Belcomm/Shinsei lineage which has kept most of the primary features all the way into the 2060s and mostly added to them rather than discarding features wholesale. I kind of wonder whether Kawamori *decided* it was a dead end and abandoned it, or if he was forced to do so because of the constraints imposed by the conformal missile system. (one out-of-universe version might be the difficulty of animation consistency. If you launch an externally carried missile in one shot, it should still be missing in following shots, otherwise you end up with people helpfully pointing out all your animation glitches; magically respawning missiles would be a big obvious. Especially with the low total count that the VF-4 has. You really can't do an Itano Circus more than once per sortie with only twelve externally carried missiles to use, and then you have to remember to animate the fighters as not having any missiles left. With the indeterminate capacity enclosed micro-missile launchers, the animators can be much more carefree.)
  3. Note that it's the flagship of the Brisingr Cluster division of Xaos, not the flagship of the *entirety* of the Xaos PMC. I'm sort of assuming that the other ships (Megasion and Grasion in Passionate Walkure, and the Gigasion & Co from Zettai Live, are outside reinforcements from Xaos' HQ or neighboring regions. A whole Macross for each inhabited planet does not match what we see in either the show or the movies given that if there was a Macross on planet during the takeovers, we should have seen some of them be taken over on the ground or in space prior to the movie battle where it actually happened. (We know that Xaos was doing anti-VAR stuff under contract on Planet Pipré in Macross E, but I don't know where that even was - Wikia says it was in the Brisingr Cluster, but the manga scanslation doesn't appear to say any such thing. As you noted, Xaos is HQ'ed on Earth and ought to be pretty much everywhere, so them having a large fleet of ships unfortunately spread out so they missed the first big event, but already moving so they're in time for the second isn't *entirely* silly).
  4. Yes, to the point where I think they basically re-drew it according to the old line art.
  5. More than that, even. This is from when Max gives the order to move into the Alfheim super gate to get to Windermere. All of the large symbols are marked "Macross-class", and there are twelve of them in the readout. Note that since the ship icons go all the way out to the edge of the display this isn't guaranteed to be all of them, indeed the one shot where we have multiple icons for something where we *know* the display isn't cropped is during the conference call during the fleet muster, where eighteen people dressed just like Max, hat and all, are present by video. One of the shots from that scene shows the entire bridge area from the outside so we can count the portraits accurately.. This sort of matches the action footage - while the greatest number seen on screen at any one time is eight, there's a few scenes where the camera jumps from "Gigasion with half a dozen ships in the background from one angle" to "Gigasion with half a dozen or so ships in the background from nearly the opposite angle". In other words, at least twelve, and possibly as many as nineteen of these things were present for the Second Battle of Windermere (movie version), plus the at least two which definitely weren't present due to having been destroyed or damaged in the previous movie. Note that the Ragna Branch having to take on Windermere alone in the TV series may be because Xaos was spread out too far or something along those lines - I don't think they work exclusively in the Brisingr cluster and they may have had some travel time involved that made them late to the party... (or more likely, they didn't have the budge to animate them.) (Note that this is not really the first time where a previously unique ship gains a whole class worth of sisters for the final climactic showdown out of nowhere - there were *plenty* of Quarters shooting at the Vajra queen in Sayonara no Tsubasa, not just the three that we got better pictures of in the magazine articles).
  6. All of the Starscream toys from the original 1984 one onwards were unarticulated bricks... until 2006, when they actually released two different versions of it with actual elbows and leg articulation. And guess who's name is on the more convincing version? (Note that Kawamori was involved in the Diaclone designs from which Transformers stem in the 1980s, and is apparently one of the designers that made "Battle Convoy", aka G1 Optimus Prime.)
  7. Really? Either we're talking at complete cross purposes here, or you didn't actually read the book you're claiming to source your info from, or you didn't *look at the aircraft involved*, or some combination of the above. Because that's so blatantly false that posting it undermines your credibility in *general*. Yes, the genesis of the VF-1 did not involve the Tomcat at all, but the resdesign that gave it its final form? Someone had a good long look a the Tomcat and liked what they saw, because you don't get *so many* otherwise unique features and combinations of features from a single design into one of your own unless you're literally staring at it while drawing your own thing. Especially when you end up slapping an iconic Tomcat paint scheme (recently popularized by a movie) on your Tomcat-shaped creation. (The thing about the supposed other inspirations is that the Su-27 and MiG-29, the other possible sources for some of the design elements used in the VF-1... weren't seen by westerners other than by spy satellite until 1986.)
  8. Keep in mind that the whole concept of Macross was changing throughout 1980 and 1981, and that both Kawamori and Miyatake were working on the Diaclone toyline in 1980 (says Wikipedia at least). Originally Macross was supposed to be a silly parody, and then it evolved into a more serious show. Also, it turns out that The Final Countdown, rather than having a release delay in Japan as happens sometimes, actually released almost a month earlier over there than it did in the US, on July 5, 1980. So I can see Kawamori learning how to do transforming robots working for Takara, starting to work on a transforming fighter for the parody show he's planning with Studio Nue, and then when the concept for the show turned serious, going "this fighter does not look realistic enough for a more serious show, I'll start over and try to make a Diaclone-style robot that looks like a serious fighter instead", and picking the Tomcat as the base because swing wings and twin tails are more easily tucked away during a transformation. And pairing well with the Jolly Rogers tails. Nothing in that is keeping anyone from re-using the better elements of the old design, like the robot mode components that remained. Final design wise, there pretty much aren't any explanations more plausible than "Kawamori saw The Final Countdown", because the Jolly Rogers tails must have come from somewhere and there weren't that many practical places for him to have seen them. Even model kits bearing the Jolly Rogers tails didn't actually start releasing until the late 80s as far as I've been able to tell (courtesy of Hasegawa in 1989 and Heller in 1990 in 1/72 scale, and IIRC later still in 1/48 scale). The expense must have been utterly ruinous without a pre-existing point of departure from our history though, at least going by what's known now (over what was known when Macross Zero was released). Then again it probably wasn't well known that the US had specifically destroyed critical parts of the tooling for the Tomcats to prevent parts from being exported at the time when Zero was made.
  9. Actually, the real life reason why the VF-1 looks like a Tomcat probably has something to do with the movie "The Final Countdown", which came out in 1980, and starred the Tomcat in the flashiest incarnation of the VF-84 Jolly Rogers paint scheme, which was only used for a few years (on the Tomcat at least, a variation had been used on the Phantom previously), and which had never visited Japan. Unless Kawamori was a collector of what was referred to as "airplane porn" (so called because it was printed by the same people and laid out in the same style as porn mags, only with airplane photos), that's about the only chance he'd have of being exposed to the Jolly Rogers paint scheme given that the squadron lived in the Atlantic and hadn't visited the Pacific since Vietnam. Design-wise, the VF-1 is only superficially similar to the Tomcat anyway, what with being much smaller, with smaller engines, and differently shaped *everything*. The only similarities are in their broad outline, and even then the VF-1 doesn't have the gigantic horizontal tails of the Tomcat. Even the VF-0 isn't based on the Tomcat, it's just the VF-1 scaled up because they didn't have the thermonuclear turbines ready and couldn't make conventional turbines with enough power. Once that was decided on they did use Tomcats as testbeds for some tech. As for why Tomcats were still around in 2008 in the Macrossverse when they were all decommissioned in 2006 in the real world... chalk that up to Kawamori being a fan of the design, I suppose. It is explained that in universe they were upgraded and stuff, but the divergence either has to have been before 1999 (because Tomcat production, and spare part production, had ended in the early 1990s), or production had to have been restarted due to the war (at likely *massive* expense, due to a lot of the production tooling having been deliberately destroyed in the 1990s to prevent new parts from being made and shipped to Iran.)
  10. There's way too many differences between the YF-30 and VF-31 for Hasegawa to be able to re-use pretty much any part of the VF-31, other than *possibly* the "feet". And while I'd have to study the layout of the runners in detail to be sure, I do know that the VF-31AX would require at least a new forward fuselage, canopy, outer wings, and weapons pod, possibly more. Which leaves basically just the legs and the central fuselage/inner wing assembly. (Please take a good look at Anymoon.com's comparisons of the YF-30 and the VF-31, while the two have similar layouts, none of the *details* are the same shape). Attempting to reuse parts where they really shouldn't have is how Hasegawa ended up screwing up the TV-versions of their 1/4000 SDF-1 - the TV version has a concave undercut on the bottom of the main gun booms that's very prominent, but it's missing on the model because Hasegawa tried to re-use that subassembly from the DYRL version of the kit, and the DYRL version of the SDF-1 didn't have that undercut.
  11. So the question I'm asking myself is, who wrote these specs? Did whoever used to write them leave the Macross team? Is this another "first printed source cannot be contradicted even when it's an obvious typo" situation? Screwy official specs is nothing new, you know my views on the ships. Or, you know, someone could have looked at the spec progression and gone "this curve is more than a little crazy, let's chill out for a bit." With regards to the later discussion of which generation the VF-31 belongs to... Later generation does not and never has implied "better specs across the board". The shift in generations usually comes from applying some critical new technology that lets it compete in a different weight class despite lower specs. In the real world "generation" is a marketing buzzword to be sure, but if you look at the definitions you can clearly see that it's not a raw specs issue. I struggle to remember any hard spec in which the F/A-18 Hornet beats out the F-4 Phantom, but the Hornet is still counted as a 4th generation fighter while the Phantom is a 3rd generation one, and I think most air forces would rather have the Hornet than the Phantom if given the option unless they specifically need the longer range, because the Hornet flies easier, has much improved electronics, and is cheaper to operate. "Fifth Generation" fighters in the real world are simply those with radical low observability built into their airframes, which means the F-22, the Su-57, the F-35 and that one Chinese thing I don't remember the number of are all "Fifth generation", because they have that one killer tech that lets them dictate when the fight is happening unless they're up against each other. In Macross, I don't know what the differences between first, second and third generation are, but "fourth generation" fighters were those with independent orbit capability, "fifth generation" are those with Inertial Storage Converters (which means that in terms of generation, the VF-171EX is the same generation as the VF-25 or VF-27; but the standard VF-171 may even be third generation depending on whether it can make orbit on its own). The Master File writers have apparently decided that having a fold quartz boost system is what makes a VF "sixth generation", which make the Siegfried and Kairos Plus "sixth generation" same as the Durandal and the Chronos, while the Kairos is fifth generation like the Messiah and Lucifer, despite not having the improved baseline specs you expect. (Hell, the Kairos is probably a low-end 6th generation fighter as well. It's not boosted *much*, but it is boosted, using fold carbon instead of fold quartz. ) Anyway, the most interesting thing in the previews revealed so far to me was "CV/C-122 Laertius". Always good to have more ship names.
  12. The VF-11 is deserving of its own Master File book. It has everything: Massive production run; flown by a main character (if only briefly on screen, in a flashback); in service for a long time as the primary fighter; multiple *logical* variants (B, C, D, Thunderseeker; none of this "give it different heads for different characters" stuff); *loads* of pre-existing FAST-pack type additions including an actual Armored pack; and its service introduction is during one of the "gaps" in the Macross timeline (between M3 and Seven). Also, consider how many fighters you'd need to defend a planet; and how many of those 30,000 may have been attrition replacements.
  13. Well, finding the thing in modern catalogues is beyond me because the one catalogue that allows you to search by historical information (i.e. I can enter 1810 as a date) requires more info than I have (the hell is an LST?) so I can't figure out what it's called today. Immensely frustrating that the astronomical databases have such arcane search interfaces. Also.... there are no stars matching Groombridge 1816's apparent magnitude of 6.7 at the distance given from Sol in the OVA (11.7 LY).
  14. It would really help if I had table headings for that so I could see what each column meant and could track it down by its characteristics. The only search result on google mentioning 1816 says this: g Macross Plus, OVA anime television series and compilation film. Groombridge 34 is a possible location of the fictitious "Groombridge 1816" (Helios) system, stated to be 11.7 light years from the Solar System, about the same distance as Groombridge 34 (11.62 ly). Planet Eden, located within the Groombridge 1816 system, is the location of the New Edwards Test Flight Center and its major city, Eden City. The name Groombridge 1816 may be an alteration of the name of the real star Groombridge 1618.
  15. I couldn't find a Groombridge 1816, so I'm presuming you (or someone else) typoed Groombridge 1618, which is *very* interesting. Groombridge 1618 has been suspected of having a planet with a 122.5 day year since 1989, and the orbital period puts the planet (if it exists) right in the middle of the star's habitable zone. That the planet would have a mass about four times that of Jupiter is a later discovery. Some of the astronomers working on it have said that it sits in one of the sweet spots for possible evolved life, though that was kind of recently (2019). It's also close to earth relatively speaking (15.88 lightyears), and of course it's *not* any of the stars making up Alpha Centauri or any of the other overused "first colony" stars. Not that there's anything wrong with using those, because they are spectacularly interesting given that Rigil Kentaurus (Alpha Centauri A) is the same spectral class as Sol, and Proxima Centauri has a confirmed earth-sized planet in its habitable zone.... but since Proxima Centaruri is tiny, the orbital period of the planet is 11.5 days.
  16. It's not just the A-6 and the A-10 either. Pretty much every ejection seat-equipped aircraft with a bubble canopy that was designed for low-and-slow flight has a canopy destruct system, including the F-35B. In high speed flight, it's usually enough to just lift the canopy front edge up enough to make the wind rip the thing off, but it only works when there's enough airspeed. There were some bad accidents during the 50s and 60s with early supersonic jets where they'd gone into flat spins with not enough airflow over the canopy for it to come off and the pilot was stuck riding the aircraft into the ground. I heard about one particular incident involving the original Draken when I was in the Swedish Air Force where the pilot had kept calm and reported the entire way down knowing that he was going to die because his canopy wouldn't come off. After that, they fitted explosive canopy separators to both the Draken and subsequent Swedish aircraft. And even *with* explosive separators, it's sometimes not enough - Goose's death in Top Gun was based on a real incident, and the Tomcat had pyrotechnic canopy removers. If I recall correctly, the NACES seats used on the F-14D and the Super Hornet were specifically made taller so that even if you did smash into the canopy it would be the seat taking the hit. For aircraft specifically intended to operate very low and very slow, where there's significant risk that even explosive separators won't provide enough separation in time, they use canopy destruction systems instead and basically blow the thing up before shooting the ejection seat through the hole. Considering that the canopy of a jet can be up to a half inch thick, anything that helps remove it as an obstacle or weakens it before you have to ram your head through it is kind of a good idea.
  17. "Godwin's law: As an online discussion grows longer (regardless of topic or scope), the probability of a comparison to Nazis or Adolf Hitler approaches 1". I was just remarking that since you already brought him up, I didn't have to restrain myself because the damage was done. I'm *not* trying to invoke any of the corollaries (such as the "someone mentioned the H word, thread over" that we used to have on USENET), but we're running close to invoking one of the others (any discussion in which Godwin's law is invoked will devolve into either discussion about Godwin's law itself, or whether the comparison to Hitler was valid). Anyway, there's a difference of scope, and consequences of actions. And the range of possible intents that would justify the action. Cutting someone open *can* be justified, it's potentially a lifesaving procedure after all. Murdering every member of a culture? You'll find that much, much harder to find a justification for without going full fantasy "they breed sapients as cattle to eat their babies as a delicacy" - which is in itself a form of genocide.
  18. Pengbuzz brought up the German dictator first, hence my saying the thread was Godwinned already. And the antagonists in Macross can certainly be evil - not on a per faction level, but certainly on the individual level. And a traumatic backstory *does not excuse* attempted genocide, or else the Failed Austrian Painter would be excused due what he witnessed in WW1. We don't excuse him. We don't excuse any of the historical despots who engaged in similar behavior, or ordered it to happen. Some actions are evil in themselves and no motive can excuse them - torture, slavery and genocide being among the ones we've basically agreed on as a species. Oh, and IIRC non-consensual non-lifesaving medical procedures is on that list somewhere... like forcibly or stealthily installed mind control implants (though the definition is originally meant to cover things like forcible sterilization or mutilations). That there are no designated "always chaotic evil" factions, or that there are no "stupid evil" or "evil for evil's sake" villains doesn't mean there aren't outright evil villains in the setting - they're typically the ones that end up killed by the protagonists instead of Defeat-is-Friendshipped or "heroic sacrificed". Leon Mishima from Frontier TV was evil because he was willing to have his president murdered (and in the novels, his VP too) so he could be the leader of Frontier in their glorious conquest of the Vajra homeworld and be "King Macross" like he'd dreamed of since he was a kid in the slums. The Galaxy Cabal from the Frontier movies were evil because they were treating human beings as parts in their machine - quite literally discussing harvesting organs from Ranka to stick in Sheryl before deciding to just take control of Ranka instead and discard Sheryl. Ushio Todo is evil because he's only interested in his own selfish goal, where his revised timeline ends up with him getting everything he ever wanted and a HFY future afterwards, and frakk everyone who got deleted because they'll never be born in his new timeline - including all his henchpeople, since it wasn't clear that he actually *had* any protection from getting them paradoxed out of existence or if he was spinning a yarn to make his pawns go along. That Mishima and Todo have traumas does not excuse them - they're still rational sane individuals who are accountable for their actions.
  19. Since the thread was already Godwinned by someone - the Nazis goals were noble and their means justified in their own heads as well. Everyone else disagreed, all their leaders which were still alive to be captured and tried were hung for it, and both post-war power blocks rubbed their entire nation's noses in it for several decades afterwards. We literally invented the concept of "crimes against humanity" to cover their *means*, as opposed to their motives or their ends. "Do not instigate genocide or you will be hung." Galaxy wants to turn everyone in to drones for the collective, with them on top. That is very clear from their own statements in the movie. Some of the voices in the brain collective are positively gleeful that soon it will be them on top. Setting aside all the murdering they went through in order to put themselves at the top, what they'd be doing is forcible brainwashing and deletion of culture because everyone will join them or die. Brera couldn't hang a computer full of cyberbrains so he blew them up instead, and Alto didn't have anything else on hand except a sniper rifle that's a memento of someone who was turned into a corpse to be stepped over for Galaxy's ambitions, but I'll take those. Todo wants to undo an *unsuccessful* genocide (the cultures survived - not intact, but not unrecognizable) - by performing a *total* genoicide (by erasing history the cultures that developed in the mean time would cease to have ever been without a trace), and he's duping most of his underlings into going along by playing it up as if they'd still *exist* after he was done rewriting a history in which they were never born in the first place. His trauma does not excuse his attempt to murder *billions*. Do not commit genocide. It cannot be justified. Ever. And he does indeed use "I must scream" type remote control, specifically on Aisha, who is still awake and aware and pleading for help while fighting her own limbs as she shoots Leon and clobbers Mina over the head and carries her off, at least in the game version. And he'd have to engage in even more mind control to put himself in as leader of Earth so he can enact his dream of making Humanity the top dogs in the Galaxy and subjugating the Zentraedi.
  20. I disagree with Seto Kaiba's description of the motives of some of these factions as in any way noble, because there's some monstrous "means" being justified by those "noble" ends. Like the "I have no mouth and I must scream" remote control used by Macross Galaxy and by Havamal where the victims were basically looking on in horror as their bodies did things they didn't agree with (see Brera's *immediate* turnaround the moment the control implant broke, both in the show and the movies, especially the movie version which immediately went straight for the Galaxy brains to terminate them with extreme prejudice even if it cost him his life because he was that violated). Or the human experimentation and that they even discussed implanting parts of Ranka in to Sheryl to keep her useful before deciding to discard her and use Ranka as is instead. There was a *reason* why no one exactly batted an eye at all of Galaxy's leadership biting the dust in the movie; or that executing Grace in the TV series was considered a righteous move (since in the TV series she was portrayed as one of the masterminds, rather than a puppet of the cyber hivemind). There is a *reason* why no one disagrees Bodole Zer had to be put down. There is a *reason* why Keith decided to sacrifice himself to take out Roid. And why Windermere doesn't get more in-universe heat after the instigators of this whole thing are all dead. It's not your ends that decide if you're a monster. It's your means. I feel like Macross teaches us that most people would not choose war if they had a choice, and it's the people who take that choice away from others who are the monsters.
  21. Given that stealth in space is impossible without such a device, but several of the VFs from the 2040s era were explicitly stealth fighters anyway? They either must have already had it back then, or there's such a massive continuity hole all of Macross just got swallowed up. So even if there's no explicit mention, the show doesn't work unless the thing exists. Also, active stealth is supposedly good enough by the fifth generation that designing according to passive stealth rules is unnecessary. (Read: Kawamori was bored with trying to make VFs that conformed to stealth rules and hand-waved it.)
  22. Kawaiicore sounds like it's the name for the genre that Babymetal belongs to. What if the Hoary Froating Head turns his trollface to MAX and goes "boy band and all-female fighter squadron?" He said somewhere that one of the reasons they haven't done another male vocalist is that anyone they picked would have to compete with Basara's towering reputation which wouldn't be fair to either of them, Also, another absolute troll idea: Straight up Disney-style musical, complete with character songs for everyone. Seriously though, I want to see some more random expressions of culture that aren't the focus of an entire show. Opera, Choral, Musical, Classical music (can you make fold waves with only a musical instrument if you put Fold Quartz into it?), a flash mob concert, Zentraedi trying to create something that is theirs, other forms of *art* in general (I loved that Alto was part of a Kabuki family, though it was a bit aggressively Japanese... hence why I'd like to see classical opera surviving in the Macross-verse).
  23. OK, so a short question: What kinds of music would you like to see represented in Macross that we haven't seen yet? I know Kawamori tries to change things up some, but Big West has to be able to sell the music so the main part of it can't be too out there, but I figure there are plenty of stuff that could work as one offs for an episode. So here are my ideas: 1. An actual space opera, Complete with a soprano singing in Italian. (Brought to you by one too many listenings to Libera Me From Hell from the Gurren Lagann soundtrack...) 2. The Full Size Zentraedi Army Choir singing glorious battle hymns. (Brought to you by one too many listenings to "Battle Hymn of the Republic" performed by various choirs.) 3. A Babymetal band. (This one might actually work as a centerpiece for a whole show...) 4. All the idols are down with the flu, and the colony is under attack. It's up to a plucky high school Karaoke club to step up to the plate. What they lack in training and raw skill, they'll make up for in enthusiasm, or die trying! No flashy holo-costumes or stage animations, just five girls and a boom box sharing a microphone. Bonus points if it *doesn't* end in them being recruited as professional singers right off the bat.
  24. Gratuitous nudity? I can barely even remember what you're talking about here, except maybe a scene where the girls are relaxing in a Sauna together? I'll see you that and raise you the Minmei Shower Scene from the original TV series... or the improved Mk2 version from DYRL. There's no girl in Macross we see more of than Minmei, IIRC... The bouncing boobs girl is Makina - and that's her thing, she loves showing off what nature blessed her with and the reactions she gets from them. Especially the other girls. Also, the format of "artist on holographic scene doing concert number alternating with VF battle scenes" has been a staple since DYRL, and they've been doing it without cutting the music since Frontier. (In Macross Seven, the first performance by the band Fire Bomber is basically cut to shreds because they kept cutting back and forth between a song in progress the concert and the battle in space outside the colony. One of the many complaints about Seven is that despite there being four or five songs at the concert that we hear bits of, the only song they played in its entirety for the next several episodes is the one Basara belts out in the middle of the battle after he barges in with the Fire Valkyrie), and then tries again and again after that.) It's just that now the technology to animate dance numbers like this has finally gotten to a point where they can use it in anime and they love showing it off... and for the first time since the original series, Ichiro Itano wasn't involved in animating the battle scenes and the people who took over weren't anywhere near his skill.
  25. Yeah, reuse is a definite thing. It was to the point where they didn't bother even putting a number on the 3D Uraga model and just wrote "NUNS" on the bow flight deck so they didn't have to bother... (and then there's the scene in the first Frontier movie where they're panning through the fleet tactical display and the same Northampton shows up in at least three different places, unless it basically teleported to get from where it was last seen to where it's seen next.) Macross movies are *probably* not supposed to be enjoyed in the format of frame by frame analysis, but how *else* am I going to find out how many gun turrets they stuck on the ships? Especially since they don't bother even describing the ships in the side materials anymore. The weird part to me is how they literally appear to have gone "oops, we forgot to put flight deck numbers on the Gigasion" when they got to the scene where it shoots the main gun. Also, one of these days I'm hoping we get a *non* homogenous fleet of Macross-type vessels, where there's multiple different types of Macross ships on screen. Having nine Macross ships show up for the battle and they're *all* Elysion-types? Or the multiple Quarters Sayonara no Tsubasa? Laaaaaazy. They could have added some Quarters to the Xaos fleet IMO, or some older Macross types to the SMS fleet. (and if anyone ever drops a licensed book with *believable* information for *all* the ships shown in 3D macross - as in, not completely at odds with the what's actually shown on screen - I'll be all over it).
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