Keith

Wait, has it been determined officially if the AFOS was the tool initiated to manipulate life on Earth? I still haven't seen anything that points to it being more than a sentry. This isn't necessarily true at all. We know for a fact that by this time the Macross was near complete with its refit (and regardless of whether the fold engines were tested or not, Earth did still have the technology). In addition, there are the ARMD carriers, Mars base, & the various other cruisers that had been completed. It may have been enough for Sara to know that man walked on the moon in the 60's to warrent a "yes" answer. Again, the question isn't specificaly whether man has developed fold engines, nor is the scope of the question defined. Breaking out of Earth's orbit may well be enough to warrent a "yes." Oh i agree. Likely the AFOS is kicking back, waiting for a definative answer, perhaps a new test at the center of the galaxy. There's no reason to doubt the myth's that were presented. The Nome family (and likely all of the Mayan islanders) were descended from those fish people/bird people highbrids. A watchguard to keep an eye on the rest of humanity descended from simians. Sara was only doing what she was taught to do from childhood. If you're trained from the beginning of life to whipeout humanity if it faulters, then naturally that's what you're going to do Actually, it didn't seem to flinch when getting hit by those reaction weapons. More likely it just ignored them, and awaited its role as a future test. I still dissagree. Take a look at Mao's swimming abilities, even more specifically Sara & Mao's similar to human, but different, bloodtype (and again, likely with traits shared by all Mayan Islanders), and tell me you think the fish people story is pure myth. I think especially due to their isolatedness, that Mayan island was developed seperately from the rest of humanity. Perhaps Zola itself was another test for humanity, how they would be treated. Or perhaps the Ginga Kujira were their test (which humanity walked in & helped with). Actually, much of this is covered by Macross 7, as well as clues given by Exedor in episodes such as Satan's dolls. The war with the Protodevelin caused the Protoculture to lift the restraints against the Zentradi in not attacking Protoculture citizens (as the Supervision Army was comprised of them). After the war, when the Protodevelin were successfully sealed away, the Protoculture tried to reclaim the Zentradi into their society (i.e. "culture" them). The Zentradi saw this as a threat, and also turned their guns on surviving Protoculture worlds (colony & otherwise). This is also comfirmed by various dialogue from Bodolza during the TV series (as being the reason why he directly saw Earth as a threat, since the Zentradi had come across similar threats before). So in the end, it was the Zentradi which caused the near extinction of the Protoculture, as their enemy wasn't just the supervision army. As for the ship that was seen, I believe it was supposed to be the same modal SA ship that the ASS-1 was, no signs of life were detected, and it mysteriously dissapeared from the area it was found. While there may well be Protoculture left (since there can be one set of Protoclutre ruins, there can easily be more), they've never played any more active role than they did in 7, i.e. dispensing info & trying to capture Gabil. They may be at the center of the galaxy with the AFOS, they may not be. But it would make a great series/movie if they popped up to whipe out life they created because they believed them to be too "warlike" Even then, the fact remains that they had the technology & know-how to properly reverse engineer it. It's not like a band of cavemen hit a button & found themselves in space. The fact that they can understand & control the technology is all that matters. That's the question isn't it? That's likely why the AFOS retreated back to watch for a more definative answer. While humanity isn't spreading out through the galaxy to dominate it, and are indeed trying to maintain life by perpetuating it as far as they can, they are still using weapons & fighting among themselves. The fact that things aren't so cut & dry may be why any Protoculture out there are remaining so quiet. Though I'm sure helping the Protodevelin to evolve into a non-agressive state won some points, something the Protoculture weren't even able to do. Where did you hear that? PC 2500s The mass production of giant biological weapons for proxy warfare, "Zentradi," is begun. The "Zentradi" contribute greatly to the expansion of the Protoculture's sphere of influence.[PC 2600s] PC 2700s Protoculture's second space colonization begins (by super-light-velocity spaceships using fold navigation). PC 2800s Unification of Stellar Republic by Protoculture. PC 2860 Within the excessively overexpanding Stellar Republic, internal rifts begin forming. The internal rifts eventually develop into large-scale conflicts that split the Stellar Republic into two. Combine that with further info given in 7 that two distinct bodies alwasys existed within the Protoculture, and you can determine that the Zentradi were always used in some way or shape to fight between those two factions, it just blew up when they officially went to war. Never is it said the Zentradi were created to beat down some colonizing planet that wouldn't bend. Nor is it said that the Protoculture were ever that warlike. Not so much, as a a suprisingly large amount of it was covered in 7, as well as the latter half of the original series.

Factoring in the size of the speciman, that it was kept on the ship & never shown again, and the fact that the gunbuster was such a huge technological leap over earlier buster machines. Just a theory...

Actually, his concert outfit doubled as his flight suit. Watch for episodes where he zips it up & uses a helmet.

Speaking of the body of the dead alien. Was that supposed to be what they made the Gunbuster out of?

The general intonation of Jerry on the topic of Zeta, in that post & several others, was that the likelyhood of an individual disc release for Zeta was low. Considering CN has already come out & stated they have no plans to air Zeta, the toy/model premiered at toy shows last year has all but dissapeared, & the box set as is, is a limited edition item, likelyhood of a limited edition release is slim. However, since Bandai did pay for the license, is mastering the disc's, and still keeps the 0079 movies in production, it's likely that a box set without extra's(toys) will be released later on, be it at the same price, or possibly slightly cheaper (but since they've kept G at a relatively similar price point, I wouldn't expect a drop). Honestly, I wouldn't toy with it though, if you've any interest in Zeta (or Gundam for that matter), get it now.

Is that the sum total of your argument? What argument, that was an observation. Are you however arguing against the gayness of the Sentinels or Shadow Force uniforms? As for the 7 unifroms & flight suits, while I can understand somes dissagreement with Basara's flight suit, absolutely nothing was wrong with the Spacy designs.

Why would there be a Macross series without these themes, or transforming mecha for that matter. If you're looking for a Macross series that doesn't contain those elements, then why not watch something else? The nature of a storyline/franchise is to maintain a constant set of elements, and Macross has alwasy done it well while still keeping things fresh.

I found it interesting that Mao seemed to have taken over immediately after Sara was gone (as she sang to Shin). Yet another reason why I think she's Basara's mother .

Wow, the unifroms appear to be reachingt he gayness levels of the Sentinels.

What you have to understand about Sara, is that from a very young age, she was taught that those would be the results should that series of events occur. She was obligated to serve the role of destroyer. Thinking Shin was dead just triggered the necessary final emotioanl response to set things in motion. She was already on the fence before that with Mao being hurt & the island being scortched. It's not so much that she herself was a Kadun, but a biological safeguard against such Kadun. Unlike the rest of humanity that was evolved from simian life, the Mayan islanders were evolved from Fish. Their sole purpose obviously being to judge the rest. I also don't believe Mao triggered anything, as Sara had just as much of a connection with the head (if not more so). Her singing was resonating through it, and she became jealous when seeing Shin & Mao together through it's eye. Considering we do have all of that mystery regarding the center of the Galaxy, missing Megaroad-01, & now dissapearance of Sara & Shin, perhaps that will be the focus of the next Macross story. A final test. Now that they've been allowed to leave the Earth, they'll be tested again at the center of the Galaxy by Sara or the Protoculture, or whomever waits. I just wonder where the Ginga Kujira fit in... Perhaps another test. Coming across more human life & teaching them about love too.

Going back to the Roy/Aries/Claudia thing, I think of it this way. He most likely met Aries first in school, and seperated when he didn't show up at the airport as she went out for research. Met Claudia during her first assignment, was intrigued that she didn't fawn over him, but moved on when they were stationed elsewhere. Go ahead a few years, & Roy & Claudia meet again while he was test piloting the VF-1-X, felt comfortable enough with her to confide his fears, but they still didn't "click" yet. Then Roy meet's Aries again, rekindles his feelings, and her death makes him re-evaluate his womanising ways. Then with both being stationed at South Atalia, he's finally in a state of mind to settle down & dedicate himself to one woman, i.e. Claudia. If anything, I think the events in Zero solidify Roy & Claudia's relationship. It also closely enough follow's Claudia's timeline of events (i.e. that they didn't get together for good after the phone call, but later when she was stationed on the Macross). I fully agree with A1's views about Zero & Plus, perhaps Kawamori felt that it (Plus) was too much of a sidestory, and used Zero as an opportunity to remedy that. I just hope the AFOS ties in with whatever the next story will be, perhaps something a little longer (though if it had to be a movie, I'd still be happy). I don't see how you can still dislike 7 after this though, as Zero more than solidifies any doubtful ties between the themes of the original series & 7. Ahem..."BOMBA!"

Cat is here as duke togo as well.

I've only seen the HK disc to compare it with, but the remaster is very awesome. Comparing it with the Eva remaster is very accurate. To hell with waiting for Manga, they pissed me off with MP:ME, and I will never forgive them. The only thing I noticed was that the toy commercial after the eyecatch was missing (not sure if it's a standard part of the release), but then I've only watched the first episode, and it may be included as an extra on the 4th disc.

The relationship between Roy & Aries started in college (or the academy, I can't quite tell from the HK subs), then they flaked on each other as Aries when to go research with Hasford. Roy going into the military met Claudia, who found him too womanizing to date at first. Now assuming the rainy night episode takes place before Zero, while Roy confided in Claudia, they still hadn't gotten together, which leaves him free to chase after Aries during the Zero incident. And perhaps after losing Aries, he was ready to settle down with Claudia once being stationed at South Atalia. A perfectly reasonable series of events which fits the continuity. I personally think Zero re-inforces Roy's attitudes during the TV series. He wasn't even remotely freaked out when seeing the Zentradi soldier stumble out of his Regult (and hell, was probably relieved since it didn't look freaky like the AFOS). And he sure as hell couldn't tell Hikaru about a clasisfied event, it would have held risk of court maritial or worse. Since Hikaru already saw a giant Zentradi corpse, what more would he have to know? And then of course there's the U.N. Spacy's unwillingness to negotiate. Having encountered the AFOS which ripped their fleet a new one with ease, and then left, perhaps they construed it as a cultural gesture. Blast the poo out of your enemy, then pull back. So naturally, they made an even bigger gun (Grand Cannon). Need I bring up the whole thing about Britia & Bodolza freaking out over Kaifun's movie, and the powers shown by the barrier explosion & AFOS? Zero fits in very nciely with the TV series.

Before I forget, I don't see how it fits in any more with DYRL than the TV series. For one thing, you'd think they would have picked up on the sunken city with the Cyclops radar. Does anyone else think Mao was looking a lot like the TV Minmay design near the end? An intentional nod perhaps?

I don't think so. Before the end of the Protoculture, both sides had banded together to join forces against the Protodevelin. The Zentradi forces were also banded together (which led to their rebellion against the Protoculture after the war, as their ban on attacking Protoculture citizens was lifted). I doubt there would be any genocidal Protoculture, though you do bring up some interesting points. Perhaps there will be more of a 2001 style twist to it, with the Protoculture remnants being futher evolved, leaving tests for the people of Earth to take on their path to evolution. And A1, by last night I'd already watched half of the episode, broke down & pre-ordered it last month along with the new Gunbuster set. I've now seen the rest. With regards to Sara, I definately agree the AFOS was working strictly based on her emotions, and likely feeding off her energy as well. She wasn't as much under its control, as it was under hers. Though where they went to is anyones guess. I really enjoyed how much Plus imagery popped up in this episode, right down to Sara coming back for Shin & helping him raise the Zero out of its dive. Most gruesome death now belongs to DD, a round right through the face (and highly worth the freeze frame) says it all.

Nope, it's already established that Protoculture consider human/zetnradi mixing to be a "good thing,' i.e. "the sign of peace."

When was the last you heard? The last I heard they were leaning towards not doing an individual disc release.

Isamu hearing Myung's song when there's no real way he should have been able to? Spiritia! I do hope this leads to something bigger though, like I said, a big clash between the U.N. & Protoculture may be next. Who knows... As for connections with 7, I still think its a viable theory that Ray could have been a child on the island, and hell, perhaps Basara is directly Shamen blood, Mao was still alive at the end, and would have been well within child bearing years when Basara was born.

That I dissagree with. First 10 or so episodes - situation setup, bad guys are a mystery, Basara has no real effect. next 20 episodes - mysteries of the attackers are slowly uncovered, Basara builds in effectiveness, and the true plot starts to take ground remaining 19 - all mysteries are revealed, including those of the Protocultures history, Basara & Sound Force truly come into power, and the epic ending. A very well rounded story, the first 10 "slow" episodes are some call them being necessary to add story believability. It wouldn't have been nearly as good if Basara had jumped out of the gate being able to do all that he eventually does. Plus the opportunity is given to grow with characters.

<blockquote>Um, no Keith. Its called hypnotism and subliminal suggestion. This was all made rather clear, perhaps you should watch it again.</blockquote> Again, I have to ask the question. Why is it so much easier to believe an A.I. can exist that can decide to use holograms & influence over brain chemestry to hypnotize the masses & perform elaborate light shows (that themselves appear magical) to be practical. But biological representations of many of those same things are written off as fantasy & magical? We still don't know exactly how we work, but humans aren't considered fictional or magical. If you fail to see the representations of Sharon Apple in Plus, I don't know what to tell you. Suffice it to say to you. On another note, from these new descriptions of the ending here, I definately think this is a setup for perhaps a bigass Macross finale. Perhaps humans vs the last of the Protoculture? It doesn't sound much like Sara & the AFOS left with a good impression of humanity. If they are indeed traveling to the last known location of the Protoculture, or perhaps the location of some super PC doomsday device, this could all lead to a big 'splody end battle movie.

Southern Cross is far below Macross 7, SC while an interesting show, had its episodes cut way too far down to be an effective story.

Alright Keith... What Gender is Mash from Macross II? Mash is male, end of story.

Which is seed special 3? Is it a recent release? I have a couple of the HK releases, the first MS showcase, the second first half series recap, and the second series recap covering the end, which also had the openings, endings, & epilogue.

Honestly, I liked it better the second time I watched it than the first. It has some fun elements, and a firm ending. The downside being that it turns into a rehash of Eva in a lot of ways, right down to Eva style boomers. Worth watching, but the story & music are definately below the original OVA.