1/1 LowViz Lurker

I think what he means is software support will dry up because developers will assume everyone likes to upgrade. There are those who only own a gba and will want constant stream of new gba games being made and not just rely on a legacy of back catalog stuff. The feeling that you still own an abandoned system because all the developers now want to make for the newer hardware. The result is that it splits userbase up into chunks and developers are left to decide who is more important.

But that guy was american, failed his original mission and had his memory phucked up. Bond is different.

Err... maybe I should have put in a smiley in that post. I wasn't being serious. It was a joke from ghost in the shell about pulling information from the net to gain information at blistering speeds and cyber enhancements to speed up the thinking process. Not all of us are wired to be able to watch and read everything at blistering speed without rewinding. meh nevermind. I am chilled. See, that is my point. The two markets co-exist so long as people still buy games, dvds, robotech toys, etc because the money flow keeps it going. I'm a fan of more options = better and happier world. When hurin mentioned that saying it "co-exists" means giving it some kind of legitmacy, I didn't mean that macross people have to accept, like or give respect to robotech in any way, all because I mentioned the story was different. What I meant was fan support for that won't die and people have to accept that robotech IS still alive. It's unrealistic to expect fans of that to suddenly disapear. Rather it would be more reasonable that those old fans abandon robotech, convert, and gradually learn more about macross the way a lot of people here have done to get access to macross. Through a gradual step by step process - like getting a smoker to reduce the amount they smoke and maybe get them off it altogether in time. It is due to mainly to ignorance that many do not know about macross. As opposed to people that knowing macross but preferring robotech. The dub means you can now get access to them at a grassroots level. By including more options, this means you make it more widely apealing without sacrificing anything the purists want. Happier world for all. The dumb masses no longer get confused becasue they will have the whole story explained easy for them, ie no reading required so my dumb friend won't be turned off watching it, ..while slowly defecting from robotech and "awakening". So all those people that were wondering about the events after kamjin attack and whether the bridge crew survive get the true event in the real macross rather than the robotech version of events. I base this reasoning on my own personal experiences with casual watchers of anime who most of the time choose to hear english because it is thier native tongue, disregarding the quality of the acting. It doesn't mean they are dumb, have no respect to the talent of the original, or not worthy enough to watch macross, simply because they want to hear english. Rather it just means they felt that reading means they miss out on the action onscreen. You can say this is an "excuse", but that is just how most people I know think. Not all people like to read stuff, because it isn't relaxing for them that way. Previous to it, all those people had was robotech. But I reason that even though most of us don't care about the dub, I bet many casual anime watchers will. But the assumption here by some people is that "Nobody willingly chooses to watch dub based solely on horrible acting" which in my experience that simply isn't true - people are lazy and many don't care about quality VA if they can't understand the language. ...But... their money is important too, so that option to have dub IS important in the long run. Nobody is stopping you for having contempt for other fans, (there is already a self-hating anime club thread for that) just that I believe an ultimate dvd release is one where it loaded with as much stuff, and as many options on it as possible. I think it was just a misunderstanding, because hurin thought I was defending robotech when my original intention was to say that not all people "think like the purist" at first. Little kids won't watch macross if they can't understand what people are saying. Better to let them hear a dub than to show them robotech. *last of the long posts, promise *

I'm actually more happy with my old GBA. I like the size of the shoulder buttons. It makes me feel like I'm holding an old snes controller. And a smaller screen doesn't interest me. Nintendo deserve whatever criticism they get for not advancing thier tech enough between handheld releases. It's one of the reasons why before the psp came out pretty much everyone was hoping for a company that would release a new more advanced handheld that wasn't underpowered for its time, and wouldn't die due to nintendo having a total monpoly on the handheld market. (eg NGPC whose best games I loved to death - such a shame it died ) Don't get me wrong and please don't take this as a nintendo bashing post, I love nintendo's software and games, but when they have an iron grip on a market, there is barely any incentive for them to push forward thier tech to a reasonable level for us tech and hardware freaks to get excited. And no other company that was in the same position as them would behave any differently. It's why we saw good advances in home console wars because of the competition to outdo the other guy. But pre-psp times, nintendo have had it easy for too long. I hope the psp eats through some of thier marketshare and we get some kind of balance of upgrading when good and better tech comes along, and not upgrading too often just to milk the people with too much disposable income on thier hands who hate the colour of thier old handheld and just want something new for the sake of it. (ie the girls who want a pretty new keychain )

That's because you dumb humans need to upgrade to a cyborg body. In the future we cyborgs all talk simulataneously and can take in multiple streams of information at once with no delay at all. I can speak absolute nonsense, mention terms that have not been explained before and your brain will be able to automatically pull that information wirelessly from the net to find out thier meaning and understand it immediately and even nonsense makes sense.

Well there is one instance where I find reading hard: there may be a complex scene where you hear background talk and this gets printed, (like an announcement on a PA) and at the same time you hear several people talking at once and this also gets printed. Several things talking at once in a short space of time. And then add an extra delay in comprehending what you just read and what it means as the story is flowing. Sometimes I find I have to rewind to capture it all because on the first time I didn't get the chance to read the whole block of text in time. Plus there may be something I want to see going on in the scene. If I had it my way I would invent a language translator like the one they used in macross II that you connect to your ear to know what the other is saying but our technology is too limited. This would be in the future after world war III, and the technology advances again and when we all have cyberbrains and read barcodes instead of printed words and have huge amounts of storage space and memory to access information imediately. Even if what you say is true about people not comprehending what is said, it still takes extra effort for those that do comprehend it. And sometimes people just want to relax, not use any brain power. I guess it depends on the show. Some shows only have very little said and the actions that go onscreen become the focus of the show. Other more cerebral shows might want you to focus on details or clues given by what characters have said in the show (they might have a lot of information to go through) and then on top of that make you think about them and thier relevence. Some shows do not even explain what some of the terms mean. Like when ghost in the shell movie came out, my friend didn't even know what section 9 was! And they mention it but give no reference. Maybe it is just "cool" to not explain what something is, but to the dumb ones they got to have everything obvious and handed to them on a platter. Anyway whether you think it is an excuse or not, the point still stands that more people are likely to watch if they can relax as it is being shown. When people can hear the character in thier native tongue this will expand the audience to the dumb ones. Once they become fans robotech will no longer be "the english version of macross".

I think though that a lot of it is just plain ignorance. They were not necesarily heavily into robotech, but are stuck with the idea that robotech = the original, and macross = a japanese version. Due to not knowing any better. Of course if they were fans of robotech as oposed to casual watchers of the show they would eventually be led to find out more and realise the truth, which some have done. But I got to figure that: Robotech was popular due to exposure (international audience), while macross wasn't due to inaccessibility. Inaccessibility meaning people who are lazy and don't read subs so they settled for robotech thinking it was the same thing. A friend of mine won't even bother watching the proper space battleship yamato because as a casual watcher, he would rather hear english - kind of shallow, but I figure there are lots of people like this who do not like keeping thier eyes at the bottom of the screen. They look at it as entertainment not as art, so the whole "purity of seeing the original" does not entice them enough to abandon what they saw first. And on top of that, now you have a generation gap that won't touch an old series anyway. (ie the kids that only want new anime who wouldn't touch macross zero just because they might not be familiar with macross events, its timeline and future history, having not seen the original tv series) So now you have only small fanbase of support for the macross series and related movies and ovas to market to. (as well as HG discouraging sellers from buying macross toys to pimp thier own robotech grrr This is what I mean by competition - robotech competes with macross for $) Whether fans of macross realise it, the series could wither away unless people slowly convert to macross in non-bastardised form by watching it in thier native language and then slowly turn towards hearing the pure form of it. This is how I see most people converted. Like what one poster mentioned, at first you want to hear the english because you don't like to miss out on whats happening onscreen, (I remember seeing akira and really caring more about catching all the action onscreen than acting) but then after a time you switch to sub because you start to notice inferiour acting. This is what happens only after you've seen both and had a chance to compare. So taste refines over time. But reeling in new people involves a bit of compromise. (ie giving them that option to be lazy and in a relaxed state - but when they do finally switch over they notice the difference and see the more kiddy version and laugh at what they once thought was good. ) But Robotech will continue to exist because there are already comics, novels, the dvd, the games, fans that don't want to give up support, people buying toys from companies making them for robotech etc (lots of people here on macrossworld who caved in and bought MPC alphas - face it, in the end we are all selfish and there is no integrity Knowing that you're supporting robotech by buying toynami alphas doesn't seem to affect peoples ability to sleep at night knowing they are supporting the enemy..) In the end what matters is money. If people are still buying stuff with robotech written on it, they can't really say they are helping to destroy the monster now can they? In some ways when you look at it, there is probably less chance of robotech dying out than macross sadly. (due to international recognition of robotech) And for every purchase of a robotech toy, game, DVD, whatever, you are probably helping the beast to stay alive and continue, and yes, legitimise its existance. The enemy's weakness is that fans of robotech will eventually defect when they "awaken". Until then I consider the two worlds are still alive: people are importing and buying macross toys but people are also buying robotech stuff as well due to ignorance (robotech got more exposure to the masses in the 80s) and/or because it makes no difference to them.

When I say "co-exist", I didn't mean macross fans have to accept robotech. What I mean was if you (the customer) want robotech go buy that. If you like macross, go buy macross. Ain't choice nice? I don't want people getting confused if they start to hear robotech music within macross. Yeah I know you didn't say this, but just in case someone will. hehe Co-exist just means that because robotech still exists in the west as a seperate universe (with a sequel to its ongoing story and seperate games and timeline and everything) and the proper macross is being brought over too, they are both in existance together. You have the choice for either one both or none. (there may be people who are fans of both universes) Because both universes are completely seperate to each other, (robobtech has protoculture as an energy source, and mixes stuff, and changes the story completely by killing the bridge crew and putting events in that never happened) I want people (who are too lazy to read subs and won't watch macross because of this, and yes, these people exist) to be able to look at the real macross but without anything about robotech mentioned. As it was before, little kids who can't be bothered or are too young to read subtitles, only had robotech to watch as an option because it was in english. Also the confusion will be there from first generation fans of robotech who will start telling people that macross is merely the first third of robotech and confuse little kids. Just the mention of "we will win" song and saying that robotech had a more fitting song over macross kind of scared me for second heh. I liked the song too, but not over the original songs. Hell no. Don't give them ideas. See: I believe in a slow conversion process. If people want to know the history of either universe they can see it as they were originally rather than being confused. Someone mentioned that when macross plus came out some people still thought this was a part of robotech's universe. This was that confused group I was mentioning. Convert these over to the original macross and the disinfo about macross being "the japanese version of robotech" stops spreading. You got to assume that there are still people out there that have not bothered to find out what the real macross even is. But these types of people are not necessarily dumb, they just haven't seen macross, and won't bother to seek out macross like a fan of macross would. (let's just call that type of person "casual anime watcher" who is most likely to ignore the original language and choose english in the dvd setting) I think if those people were converted over, as proper macross fans, (through the 'slow conversion process' of first watching it in english like people who saw robotech did) robotech might actually die off properly. I've noticed when something has an english dub it has an increased chance of being watched, because some people just do not like reading. No, robotech is not on an equal standing to macross, but that doesn't mean robotech as a universe no longer "competes for attention/recognition/money" in the west and is more likely to be popular by that generation that saw it as robotech. (whether fans of macross like it or not, they are outnumbered by the robotech people) When you look for toys on ebay to do with macross, there is a reason "robotech" is still lumped together with macross in some descriptions or categorised in shops together with macross toys. They are targetting that group of people who best knew macross from robotech. This is the reason I made that comment about seperating the two universes and not mixing stuff you liked in robotech with macross. I don't want to hear "we will win" on the english track, just the original songs. No this isn't directed at you, but just those who might think that maybe robotech songs have some relevence to macross, which they don't. My comment about the "we will win" song use, has to do with the use of that song within robotech, and how I thought this was actually good for robotech. Given the time (during the 80s) it was an ok substitute and I liked this. (earlier I even mentioned that I prefered the rock/metal sounding music from robotech in the battle scenes because the heavier sounding stuff suited the military theme more, over the macross battle music for example) But where I disagree is that I don't hold this music to be somehow "more relevant" to the situation than the original song which is the message I got from earlier. (ie that a pop song was less fitting than a dramatic one when both are actually pretty suitable.)

I liked that minmay song about the hero beating the giants from the Little White Dragon movie (kaifun stars as the action hero with kung fu to beat the giants) and how it plays during hikaru's fight against the zentradi. It is very apropriate when you think how he joins up with the military to protect minmay and all the "saving of her life" in real life that goes on in the tv series. (whereas kaifun is protesting to stop fighting in real life but is the hero in the movie, hikaru is the real life one so the song is really about hikaru, not kaifun in that context) "We will win" is pretty good too, but that's robotech. Totally different universe which needs to co-exist as a seperate thing to macross. No point including it with macross when you can just get robotech dvd instead.

I'd would have to agree with those points. I hate it when things look too flat. This is why I did not like the gundam seed ships because they seemed out of place. Maybe it is just "early days" and things might get better. As for gollum, I can't imagine not using cg for him. Like with Yoda in the star wars movies I don't think a puppet or costume would suffice especially when you see yoda having to fight and needing to move with inhuman speed like he can take anyone on. LOTR is still a good example of using old tehniques with new ones though. (they even restrained from giving saruman typical DnD/hollywood-style magic effects) Its a good example of balance. Whether we like the cg or not wasn't what I was arguing though. But that: as a tool it can only help and only adds to the choices of what you can do. In fantasy, there are going to be things like thousands of things moving around all at once and computers help with this kind of thing. I loved the soldiers at the begining of FOTR when they are massing to fight. To me I didn't care if they were ALL real people, because from where I am sitting it was convincing enough. Contrast that with star wars prequel cities, they were artificial enough that it looked videogameish. (but maybe as time goes on, the tech gets better, the artists skills get more refined, we will look back at it and laugh at it?) In movies like Jurrassic park, where these huge animals have to blend with the background and move and interact with objects near them, CG is put to good use. They don't look fake in the "robotic, wooden, inorganic" sense of fake to me and they fit right in with thier environment. (which is nonfantasy and needs dark lighting and real tones, unlike the cartoon world like toystory.) I just think that blaming the fall of animation quality on the misuse of the tool itself (like in instances where it is not needed) is a little unfair. One of my favourite parts in macross plus is when they did choose to use cg.

Well the feeling I get with cg is that same feeling I got with final fantasy 7 game. When the games lost thier nice hand-drawn look of the old days and the beautiful color tone, and went all pre-rendered and lifeless, I felt the soul was lost. I'm not disagreeing with the idea that the 80s was the golden age, (I'm a fan of 80s anime) and that hand drawn has more "life", "style", and should be preffered, but just that I can see where CG STILL has it place. It just so happen that bad example give it a bad name. (due to trends) Its like the difference between comparing "Toy Story-like" CG (very bright and happy and purposely plastic-y, reflective, and shiny-looking which suits kids) to "Gollum like" cg in movies. (which is "look at me, I am a realistic looking creature for a fantasy world with none of the wooden acting you expect from CG") Gollum was carefully thought out and I forgot that it was a cg puppet as I watched the movie. The facial expression was done so that at times you feel like it is a real person with emotion and not cold and emotionless. Animation had realism look and in movement without sacrificing life in thier behaviour and mood. In toy story the characters move unrealistically and cartoon-like (which people like!) but their external appearance is such that you could say in the early days of CG animation, that "this is typical CG, I don't ever want to see this kind of thing for a serious movie. The age of cg can only bring fake models." and missing the point that at times when cg is used for certain genres like fantasy, it is often more "realistic" or "convincing" than if you had tried to make a live solid puppet. (a real object or model. ie OT star wars realistic models vs new fake looking cg star wars for example) So it's like there is this prejudice towards CG in general based on what htey remember from the bad, you know what I mean? As time goes on, there is the chance the look will become seamless and instead of the fake cg sticking out like a sore thumb in the early days (due to poor choices, laziness, crap technology, or lack of skill) the actual hand drawn stuff will be the thing that sticks out like a sore thumb this time. Either one is bad (when there is an imbalance) but you can't just blame the tool for its poor use was all I wanted to say.

You forgot the IMO I liked the cg in gits. It gave the vehicles a sense of realism and that they were futuristic and actually there. We could see all around them, and in the case of macross zero, they moved and reacted smoothly. There was a sense of great distance from off the ground when you look at the background sceneary, like you are high up in the air. Not all things have to be gritty and dirty. One of the things I liked about shirow's appleseed manga in the 80s was how much friggin detail he puts into the drawings. That must be a labor of love. But to expect that kind of detail and good animation is being unfair. If some of the world was done in cg I can live with it. I'm mainly a fan of cg based on the genre, (for example if there is not much mecha in it, no point using 3d cg models) and based on the things it is used for. eg, a machine is a static object that should NOT deform and bend like it was made out of cardboard. It is much more convincing to me when it is "cold", hard" and "lifeless" like what things really are in the real world. Compare the beauty of macross DYRL hand drawn animation to the beauty of macross zero dogfights. One allows the machines to move like the robots were alive. (this is cool I like this too, that is what gets me into anime because you can do stuff that are not possible in real life - the reason movies like the matrix are popular) The other makes the dogfighting, and shinyness of the machines seem like these are real and do not break any laws of nature. (ie no fat chunky munky style proportions in one scene when a machine is in one mode, and then skinny and sleek fighter proportion in another scene when it is in another mode) I can see the good points of both sides of the argument. But if something that should be "lifeless and solid and shiny" in the creator's vision actually looks shiny and solid and lifeless, then I am not going to complain. Because that is how I would envision a modern machine with smooth clean lines to look like. Not dirty and uneven and unrealistically weightless. People and characters are different. This is where I think hand drawn is better because it allows them to have character. But most of the time, the lifelessness is a result of the cost saving that is done in pretty much all anime. (don't blame the age of cg) Why bother wasting money on a scene with talking and mostly spoken body movement, when you can concentrate on the money shots like the action scenes and busy parts? (reminds me of an episode of the simpsons where bart watches a preview to a movie and they cut to all the exciting action scenes, and Homer expresses interest in wanting to see the movie because it looks so exciting and packed with action, and Bart tells him: "What's the point you've already seen all the best parts!" ) Somebody mentioned that in GitS the people felt lifeless. Well that is actually fitting since they are adult cyborgs with relaxed attitude working for a covert ops group, not 5 year old kids who move about actively. And they speak wirelessly. Think back to the dull boring character that Harrison Ford plays in blade runner. That is how I imagine these people to be like in a world where humans are dehumanised by the technology as it slowly beomes part of them. I think people are just falling for the trap of comparing only the best they can think up from the past with the average of today. So the crap stuff to them sticks out more because it is fresh in thier memory. As I mention certain genres benefit more from cg than others. Although it is true that it wil be used to save costs, think to movies like jurrassic park that look bloody convincing with cg. Both in phyics and how the dino's walk and run, as well as skin and look vs a traditional puppet. Think about the money saved when animating herds of these beasts as opposed to the money wasted on real life objects whose detail you may never ever get to see because the shot is so far away and the viewer won't notice any difference. Same with LOTR when you have all those orcs attacking the humans, the ones from far away and in the opening scenes in FOTR are not going to be seen in great detail, yet they move realistically and are convincingly done using cg. Not fake at all - there are no bright colours on the models, things actually looked weathered and dirty. In fact the actors were more wooden than the animated puppets in some cases. The same sort of logic and reason to use CG applies to anime imo. Sci-fi and fantasy with machines may benefit with the tools use, but there will always be bad uses for it because it is "trendy" or people are lazy. But this doesn't change that over time, its use will eventually mature and techiques get refined over time as people learn from the mistakes of the past. It is just a tool that can either be abused or used effectively and convincingly. And it has had less time - unlike 2d animation which is tried and tested and used for decades - for people to give it a chance, so naturally the response wil be that todays anime sucks because of its existence, as opposed to just blaming its poor unskilled use of it.

So when will the simulation of the sound processor be finished? I like this shoot em up because it is easy on the first playthrough, then when you go through your first loop it gets angry and mean and enemy fire is thrown at blistering pace. Arrgh! I would have liked this game even more if they just allowed you to transform whenever you like instead of waiting for a stupid icon to appear. Who wouldn't have liked to transform multiple times within a short space to change weapons to suit the situation they were in? Also I personally think the fighter mode should have been the one with the gerwalk's "beam of death" weapon because the way you need to strafe side to side to hit stuff suits a fighter style of targeting. The battroid should be the missile swarms of death (which it is already - I'm reminded here of a battroid with gbp) and Gerwalk should have the spread shot. (since it can shoot at its sides at wide angle using the robot arm unlike a fighter)

Gits: SAC imo is an example of good use of cg. ie the vehicles, mecha, look and move realistically and the camera is allowed to see stuff from many angles as if the object were right there in front of you. (and they do not stick out like a sore thumb) Compare that with a jerky hand drawn version and you can see which is superior. The cg doesn't undergo some kind of deformation like what happened with the different shaped VF1 in SDF: macross. The same sort of complaints with cg I am hearing here with anime, I have heard with live action movies. People complain that ever since matrix there is overuse and overreliance on it. True but it has its place for certain genres. (take a fantasy setting like lotr or jurassic park for example) There are good examples and bad ones. Also I did not in the least bit mind the CG dogfighting in macross zero. It's comforting to know these things are 3d objects with proper accurate dimensions to them. (which don;t suddenly grow or shrink according to the mood of the artist ) Appleseed CG is another good example. Nice dramatic pans and camera rotation in a city setting really adds to the atmosphere of the world. I want to see in, above, below, and around my environments sometimes with a realistic and convincing sense of depth. In macross plus when they show the cg city (ep4 of the ova) it allows the viewer to dip and bounce, spin and slide in and around the buildings and get a feel for the sense of speed involved and amount of real space the objects are in. CG is just a tool. It can be misused and abused or utilised with proper restraint. But the good examples of its use are what we should be thankful for. I'm a fan of both old and new. Just that I think it takes time for some to learn mistakes before they improve.

Ahah just saw up to ep18. The cosplaying episode was so funny! That fudo gen always seems to enjoy putting people through pointless excercises just to make a point. Reminds me of that guy from G gundam who keeps lecturing the main character about the secret in getting the super mode activated.

what were these controversial lines they are referring to?

I wish the whole valk had a shiny finish actually. Sort of like the bandai mac7 toys. Mmm..light reflecting off into the side and making me squint when I look at it. I like the clean reflective look. Maybe its just that I want to trick people into thinking it is diecast.

I can't but help thinking of The Comic book guy from Simpsons. Although I think everyone has thier thing they are a fan of and don't want changed just to appease the unwashed. We all have a bit of the comicbook guy inside us. (ie where you start to treat common things like some piece of rare art that absolutely can not be messed with or the masterpiece loses its value) Still, no matter what happens, if macross doesn't get new fans this series will wither away and die, something that is evident with younger generation already. (ie see the thread about the guy who can't find any macross fans in his club) Here's what I think: As long as you get what you want, and the masses get what they want: STFU you h4ters!!1 Companies don't love you, they love the money you give. More fans = more widespread apreciation. More widespread apreciation = increased chance somebody will want to know more about the series. More interest in the history = more people carrying on the support for more of macross. It's a slow conversion process where, when they are ready, they will finally see and apreciate it for what it is, on its own merit. Don't get me wrong I couldn't care much for the dub myself, but think of the children people.. When you were little how interested in reading were you really? Reading means more effort. And most little kids are lazy. If you want the gundam kids to start buying those macross valks instead, make the release as widely appealing as you can. Common sense. No offense to the "sub only" crowd. At one time I was in total agreement with what they were saying. It was only when they started with the: "having more options is bad" line of thinking that I started to question thier logic. Having more options is always better FFS. This is why some people find the thought of buying dvds appealing in the first place. More features and useless stuff crammed onto something means they feel extra special for having all that in thier collection. And also on rare occassions there are some little enhancements in some areas with dub. Like the sound effects in macross plus, the extra background music in macross II (when ishtar is leaving earth and Hibiki is saying goodbye for example) and certain music in Robotech. (eg the battle music when valks are scrambled. Heavy Rock/Metal is much cooler and more fitting for a war setting, imo although I totally agree none of this makes up for crap VA, crappier singing, less range in music and overall repetition, and any changes and butchering done to the original - but remember that's probably only because the western side doesn't treat voice acting as a serious profession like the japanese where they are worshipped like rock stars or something do they?) I think if there was more tolerance, and both people could get what they want, there would be no reasons to have these kind of "purist vs the masses" wars because both sides can get a chance to make an unbiased opinion by being provided for options to have both. Yeah people have crap taste at first, but over time they refine it and look back at the crap they watched and laugh.

I meant relative to the tv series. There are some pretty disgusting scenes in DYRL: -guy with his head cut off. (totally unecessary but humorous just like the bit in private ryan with the guy getting head shot after taking off helmet or the cut-off head in apocalypse now. That made me want to puke.) -Milia crushing the head of the soldiers she fights by stomping the mech's foot and twisting it around on thier faces as they whimper in fear. (another unecesarily violent scene) -Blood pissing out of the Kamjin's mouth as he dies slowly from shot in the back. Not necessary to die so dramatically, but it does add more realism. -The alien boss face being shot with the gunpod at close range and as he cries in agony you see the portions of his skull and brains splatter all over the place. -people's face being melted at point blank range as milia punches a hole in the face of the soldiers mecha. This was a fatal death - the character didn't just want to beat the pilot in combat but kill the person inside. The way she goes about it is pretty cold and uncaring. No remorse for the death of the pilot, only contempt for thier inability to survive. These bits make the series darker for thier more graphically violent scenes. In the tv series you don't see somebody get thier head crushed in like that by going into that detail. Similarly in macross zero we see a person getting beaten on the ground with no way to defend himself. This was a pretty dark scene, maybe not on the same scale as akira but very reminiscent of some of the stuff in platoon. (ie the guy who has his head bashed in by the soldier, and the soldier showing no restraint. We may not see the guy's bruised head on the ground cracked and bleeding but it is a powerful scene.) What I want to see is the equivalent of Akira level's of violence in mospeada. We should at the least have people losing limbs when near an explosion, or images of dead bodies, blood, dismemberment, bruises, swearing, cruelty, lots of violent death basically, real crying in pain and agony and suffering etc. Whereas macross was a war. Mospeada was an adventure with RPG characters. The stories and transforming mecha were good though, but the world just didn't reel me in the way macross's world did though. To me, the senseless death was just a device put into each episode that made me want to care for the character, but all it did was cheapened the effect making me not believe the story. That is each episode has 1 new guy die at the end by sacrificing himself to the point it is predictable. In yamato movie it worked because he was the main character and we were with him all the way - all the options were gone. The life he gave by the sacrifice of his own, left this powerful message for those who were built up to not want to see death. They treated it like a big goodbye, but for each death in mospeada it was very formulaic. Like it was chucked in at the last minute like some sick ritual. (kenny in southpark ) But you have to feel like these are real people not just characters put in for a story. I guess unecessary stuff like rape (something like this almost happens in mac7 actually) might not be a pleasant thing to have in a show designed only for entertainment, but for me it can add a bit more depth and realism into a show if it is not just put in for the sake of it. Like how I mentioned about the bike gangs in a post apoc setting, being predators, it would make sense for them to try to attempt to take anything by force, including people's possessions, lives, your freedom to do what you want, just because they can, and just because it is something for them to do and nobody is going to be around to stop them doing it - hunting thier prey in packs like wolves. That might not be the typical person you know, but criminals do this with no regard for others so it makes sense to show it whether you like to see it or not; and so it is shown. The thing I liked about private ryan is that they attempted realism by recreating that horror as well as other things. But they didn't necessarily glorify it. It was just there for you. How you react to it is your choice, but like aliens or braveheart, maybe being disgusted, scared and horrified is the intention. To make you feel like "if you were there, this is what you might be exposed to". Yeah it is not pretty but that added realism and depth, which made it stick in your mind even after the movie was over, leaving a lasting impression, and maybe making you think about it more.

The battroid fight showed they were about even. I dunno maybe isamu is better than guld the way max was better than milia? Either way the competition didn't look decisive - it would be like hikaru vs roy. All I know is that I would much rather have a BDI and BCS than conventional controls. Imagine if isamu was flying the yf21 instead? His performance would probably be even better. Guld's crappier piloting only indicates how much more advantage a yf21 would be for isamu than yf19. Because Guld's better plane compensated for his crappier ability right? The danger of the technology is not thinking clearly. Guld can only control it safely when his mind is not wandering. (this is why he accidently almost killed dyson in the first episode, it was too sensitive). I just think the advantages of having a VR vision and seeing through buildings as if you were superman, and looking at yourself in the third person far outweigh the dangers. If you were to fight multiple enemies at once in a team, your thought can become action. Your brain is quicker, (you just sense the enemy is there rather than turn your head around) and the muscles in your body are far more intuitive than physical controls. I think the reason why the ghost was going to be chosen over the yf21 and yf19 was simply because all the test results showed it to be better than either of them. Even if isamu was a good enough pilot to be able to fight and "beat" the ghost, it still didn't change the reason for why a ghost would be a beter choice: 1. ace pilots are rare, ghost can be mass produced. 2. who cares if a robot dies? 3. computers think and make decisions faster than humans, (but not necessarily make wiser choices). 4. not limited as much without a pilot inside. But because the yf21 is a better choice to fight the ghost (due to better control system - guld says he has a better chance against the ghost in the anime, and Isamu unwillingly agrees, and goes for the girl) I can safely assume yf21 was going to win the competition before the sharon apple incident. When guld had the girl after saving her from the fire, Isamu was training his ass off and getting angry because he wasn't getting the performance he needed. (the scene where he is in the simulator.) Guld just seemed happy and relaxed, where Isamu was frustrated and angry as if he was losing again. (he didn't really give a poo about myung at this point in time, only about winning the comp)

Hrm the banprestos should be included in the comparison imo. I think they look well proportioned even though they have barely any detail. I like that they are tall and thin and not chunky. (this is always how I imagine the valk to look like in robot mode to correspond to the fighter mode looking streamlined and thin.) Just don't look at them close and have them far away from the viewer where they can not be scrutinised. If high quality version was made of this (lets sy with all the gimmicks on bigger toys) I'd buy one. 1/60 is not perfect transformation. That is the main reason I'm not enthusiastic about it. And toynami look good but they need better QC for consistancy. I absolutely refuse to pay for something that has a good chance of breaking apart. Luckily I only got in during 1/48. If the market wasn't so flooded with vf1, I might have bought a toynami just to try it out. But the horror stories, and competition has made it obsolete. I hope that when toynami get to the mospeada cyclones they improve the QC. (are they going to make these?)

haha I kid. What is the story about the pink face anyway? Did he catch a disease from some alien planet while away from earth? I bet the human race is so mixed that all kinds of strange sexually transmitted diseases have cropped up in the future. Humans in all of the robotech stories have mated or had romantic relationship with so many aliens. 1. macross: milia and max. 2. southern cross: bowie grant wanting to bang those musical aliens 3. NG: scott with marlene who is invid Three different alien races mixed with human race. I see this to be dangerous. Imagine if aids spread to all the different alien species across the galaxy?

Well if there was more than 1 ghost and the ghost had worked as a team you'd be fried chicken. Was it sharon apple who was controlling the ghost though? I think sharon apple would just fire the SDF1 main gun at both of you and end it right there. Too bad she was only playing with the pilots though. She wanted them to feel good that's her excuse for controlling the sdf1 and trying to shoot the 19 down. I guess it didn't factor in that once a human is dead there is no more fun. Your team might also get mind controlled if they got too near the holograms and started masturbating over of the naked pop idol instead of piloting the plane. The best way to take on the ghost is to get an emp weapon to shut down the machine, or get yang to hack the sharon apple AI (like what he did at the concert) and use her to kill it. They were androids silly. They don't know this but the same inventor of astro boy (he is even more mysterious than those 5 mad scientists that appear in the anime) created the kids especially for the gundams so that they could withstand the pressure put on them by using the gundams. The major sally girl mentioned they were not even human so maybe they have some kind of combination of nanomachines and living tissue mixed together? This also explains the survival of the cockpit exploding and hiro survives this. No way a skinny kid like that would survive. Well that's my theory anyway. It can also explain thier superhuman reaction speed. Newtypes don't exist (see ending to gundam X), it was just a myth invented to make humans feel inferior to thier own kind (splitting them in two groups) as a distraction so the machines would take over some day by pitting them against each other. But these star androids are like the good machines that don't even know they are machines, but are still helping the humans from destroying themselves because an alien race (who the inventor borrowed the technology from) gave them souls. It's like blade runner, one of these days the truth about the 5 gundam pilots will come out and they will realise they are replicant-like machines created as tools to keep the human wars on earth as balanced as possible to prevent the humans wiping themselves out totally like the protoculture.

Drug them? Then tie them to a chair so they can't move? Have some trenchcoat mafia style kids with sniper rifles threaten to shoot if they fall asleep? Just joking. Maybe when they get older and look for classic stuff they will stumble upon macross themselves and discover it that way when they are ready? Maybe they just haven't had a chance to refine thier tastes enough? As you get older you tend to have a view that everything was better in the past when you compare todays stuff with only the best stuff from the past, rather than crap from the past. Personally I wish they would remake macross (how the story was originally supposed to be before it got cut - just show every event but in much greater detail. I alwas wanted to know what happened to misa and minmay and hikaru and the megaroad) and give it the macross zero treatment, or maybe do it like Appleseed CG. That comic is old but the flashy matrix-ified animation with slow motion action sequences would be perfect for many mech battles I can imagine. But don't just have one or two onscreen, have stuff flying all over the place and at high speed in, around and through buildings and stuff. You got to make it exciting like a lethal weapon movie with all kinds of crazy stunts and poo. Have the robot mode look like it can move really quick like its power was more than enough to push its own weight around with ease. Show a lot of alternate mode fight sequences. In the cartoon if those bipedal regult could hop like grasshoppers across the terrain they should make the humanoid robots move with a grace and speed. The flow of movement of both the camera and vehicles would be akin to the stuff you see in clone wars cartoon - subtle movement is very important to give the sense of energy, that the machines are alive. That sense of speed you felt when you saw macross zero combined with the more cartoonish look of appleseed with the physics and sweeping camera angles of macross plus would work. I don't think I could ever get sick of the missile swarms in macross, that is the classic thing I remember. It's too bad the franchise is dying as it ages. I think if they don't make an alternate universe like gundam it will just wither away and die.. sorry to be so pessimistic hehe. Oh well there is always the new robotech and the appearance of rick hunter as an aged hikaru. It will be good to see hikaru flying in a legioss. I think the reason people watched the shows was because the transformations of these robots were cool and everyone wanted a toy of this mecha. I would only have been a kid so the story would have been secondary to me. (I'm not as old as some of the other board members here)

Yeah it's like the difference between macross and DYRL. You never saw a guys head getting cut off, or milia's cruel behaviour to the zentradi soldiers, or the condom vending machine, or unecesary violence in the tv series. In akira you see violence because these biker gangs are out for revenge. I can see this as being real, no matter the unpleasant nature of it, because it is getting even. It would be no different to hikaru wasting that alien with his gunpod and we get to see all the detail of his giant alien face being shot to poo with the gunpod. Did we really have to see it? Nope but thats just what the weapon would do to the aliens face. It wasn't meant to look pleasant. If they did a DYRL of Mospeada, showing the gang violence, the cruelty of the invid torturing that guy to do experiments on his body and making him into a guinea pig, a rape scene, it would be no less out of place than what DYRL was to macross tv series. We see some pretty unpleasant stuff in a hollywood movie (take saving private ryan's violent scenes) and in movies like platoon you see the dark side of a soldier where the guy is enjoying the killing. You get to see how the soldiers begin to hate being in the war and wishing they could get out as soon as possible, and not caring about the big picture and whatever mission on up high needs completing, only about themselves and thier own pain. Why not in mospeada? The war could be unpleasant just like the characters in platoon, who really don't know if they will survive long enough to make it to the end or not. But in Mospeada, you never got that feeling of the ugly side of war. It was like an adventure. And each episode was very optimistic and feel-good and although someone died each episode to save others, this sacrifice was hopeful and inspiring, not gritty and dark, violent and brutal like private ryan, DYRL, platoon, Apocalypse now etc. (limbs being blown clean off, soldiers having fun beating the crap out of the enemy and loving it, enemy soldier being cold and emotionless as they casually finish off thier target like a kid sadistically squashing a bug for entertainment) Even macross Zero was kind of like that. The chic with the scar on her chest suggest she was brutally tortured (possibly raped) and pretty much has no problems beating up a defenceless soldier with arms bound as revenge. May not have been necessary to show it, but the characters when personally motivated enough to hate thier enemy would realistically not play nice when the position and conditions suited them. Not all people should react the same.