NeoverseOmega

Yup. Internet forums are kind of like the event horizon for fanboyism - once you cross over you're doomed . . . . . I'ts fun though - as far as dooms go, I'll take it.

Heh- then I'll try to stop griping and being a pain in the arse. It's great that you enjoy it Eriku - again, all criticism aside, the most important thing is that MOSPEADA toys are seing the light of day again. If someone could convince CM's to give a set to me for free they'd get an impartial review - honest! ;P This is one of my favorite mecha as well - in highschool I filled notebooks with MOSPEADA scenes and even made a couple of attempts at 3D animations and old pixel style video-games (maybe having to depict the thing myself is why I'm so critical of what I see). Of course that just makes us two different varieties of nutty fanboy (although who's the peanut and who's the pistaccio is beyond me). And for Fly4Victory - your short and sweet version is probably about right!

Well, to be fair, there have been entire threads dedicated to ranting about the price of Yamato toys as well - although I think while some are close, most Yamato toys can be had for significantly cheaper than this (they are also larger and somewhat more intricate designs with a lot of small panels and parts). Actually, you might be suprised to hear that the complaints about Yamato are far MORE wild and accusatory- some people have gone so far as to try to describe Graham as some kind of manipulative corporate flunky (and he let the boy live, Graham is a very forgiving Sith-lord he is!) and others have generated these conspiracy theories of flawless valks going to japan and all the damaged and defective ones being sent overseas. You even get rants about Yamato engaging in price gouging and bait and switch. Heh, two "Shin" VF-0's with totally different color schemes . . . . . Believe me, nothing here compares to the kind of accusations you'll see on a good Yamato rant page - this is actually VERY mild for MW. Heh, no conspiracy theories or insulting anybody here (at least no intentional or defamatory insults like you see on other threads)- just a bunch of people who have seen better looking designs churned out for a lot of anime properties for less money confused by the enthusiasm of other people who see a fun toy that isn't coming from toynami (who are confused by the criticism of the other people. I'll try to compare apples to apples and go with a design that will probably have a similar pricetag: Yamato's YF-21. You will get some complaints about the legs being too small on the most recent YF-21 design, but otherwise they wouldn't fit in the compartment without radically changing the profile of the plane. If you go over the rest of the design there are a TON of little details and additions to make it look as good in both modes as possible. A complex hinge system to hide the shoulders in jet mode, a more elaborate folding system for the legs to improve the jet profile, extra panels to help blend in the robot parts, an extra rotation on the landing gear (which have painted interiors), joints in the robot form that maintain the whole shape of the arms and legs when they bend and actually fairly well replicate what you'd expect it to look like if it were real. In short, partly because of Yamato and some other companies, we've come to expect the more expensive anime toys to look about as close to a good display model as it is possible to get - no unnecessary design compromises and a bunch of added details that are only there because the designers are trying to get as close as possible to making it look like "the real thing". CM's has all silver landing gear, hardly any visible panel lines, fins that stick out in robot mode (in spite of the fact that both the Toynami and Gakken designs were able to get them to fit), intakes that look like they don't belong on a jet (much less on the "voluptuous" Legioss) backwards horseshoe bending knees on a hollow leg, a strangely flat and long "necktie" chest piece and foot thrusters that place themselves under the wings instead of to the back of the vehicle. Notice I don't even say anything about the long nose or slender design - I'm actually okay with "stylizing" (but I can also see why others would want the more blocky, tough/functional look from most painted visions of the vehicle). In short, you've got two variable fighter designs: one that does a whole lot to get it to look as good as possible, and another that doesn't even seem to do as much as what came before. We KNOW that better looking designs are possible - and I'm not even talking line-art accuracy here, I'm just talking about looking like a reasonably realistic jet and a reasonably realistic robot (although admittedly talking realism on a fantasy robot pushes things a bit, there is such a thing as verisimilitude). All we have to work with at this point is photographs, so we really can't be comparing QC (although by all accounts the QC on Yamatos most recent releases have been spot on). But if you compare the photos side by side, which one looks more like a display piece, the Yamato Valk or the CM's Legios? Granted, looks are only skin deep, but right now thats what we've got to work with. Generally Yamato is both loved and cursed by people on this board because they have outright beautiful design work, but sometimes the execution falls short of what is expected for the price-tag. This would be an okay toy - again, if I saw the legioss alone I'd say it compares visually to many transformers (some of the classics line actually made fewer compromises). With its size that would make it a ten dollar toy in the U.S., maybe twenty or thirty coming from Japan. The opening missle panels and functional landing gear take it a little over that. I'm actually a lot happier with the tread, it has some compromises but nowhere near as many as the legioss, but again the connection system is awkward and is largely exposed metal (looks reasonably solid, but otherwise very contrived). I would have a hard time saying the quality on this is equivalent to similarly priced toys - again, I haven't held it but it makes an AWFUL lot of UNNECESSARY compromises. That and the reviews of CM's ride armor (which have made it sound tremendously fragile and fiddly) make me suspect that this is going to be as floppy and frail as it looks (I hope not). Believe me, many here would spend the money on this, maybe even more IF the design looked like CM's had honestly tried as hard as they possibly could to make this look and function as well as possible. Instead it looks, well, kind of half a$$ed (would donkeyed work better here?). It doesn't look like the designers really care about the mecha. Again, not even talking about lineart accuracy - it doesn't look "convincing" in any mode. Heh, maybe that makes us crazy fanboys, but lets face it: who are you targeting with a 250-300 dollar replica if not the crazy fanboys?

Wow - looks like somebody on the paint crew got confused and mixed up Powerglide with a new version of Jetfire . . . . Y'know, I'd actually like the design if it were a different color - although the glowing nipples do bug me a tad. So that's why Graham calls them Trannys - Powerglide, I never knew!

I think many of us are in the same boat. Sure - I've had some pretty venemous rants about the CM's offering, but even in those I said this would be fine if it were more along the price scale of imported transformers in the same size class. I'd still say it looks funny, but the problems wouldn't be as bothersome. Even 150 is pushing it a little, but for that price I'd definitely consider it. If I had just stumbled upon it at a hobby shop and it was 150, I'd be excited to see a new rendition of the Mospeada mecha. As it is this is in the price scale of an EXTREMELY high end display piece - I would expect AT LEAST masterpiece transformer or Yamato valkyrie quality. Heck, at this price some people may have even been hoping for Soul of Chogokin quality, especially when you factor in its relatively small size. Instead this is designed to look like a mediocre toy. Perhaps a solid and well constructed toy - but lets face it, many transformers are solid well constructed toys, but they're hardly high end collectibles. I don't even mind line art innaccuracies, I have a problem with lazy design. A sleeker style? Thats fine, I'm actually all for that - but slimmer looks don't require hollow knees, protruding fins, oddly shaped and little intakes (and thrusters on the forearms) or legs that swing almost all the way out underneath the wings in jet mode. Especially for at least twice the price I would expect. What makes it more mind boggling to us is that that this design has been out in the open for a while and there has been a lot of time for CM's to hear criticism (I have a hard time believing Japanese fans don't notice the same things we do) and correct the problems (many of which look like they would be incredibly easy fixes). Sure, you're free to disagree - if this version make you happy, then that's terrific. Again, I just think its wonderful MOSPEADA is finally getting some attention from toymakers - but for many of us it would be a little bit of a letdown considering what has come before and just too painful to the wallet when there are other things out there that impress us more for less money. Heh, I do have a sense of humor and wasn't really offended by the breakdown of types - but I can see why some people were. I doubt this was because they don't have a sense of humor (I've traded jokes with a couple of them along the way here on Macrossworld) but rather I think it's because they have a sensitive (maybe even oversensitive) sense of fair play. They knew you weren't really trying to insult them seriously, but it was hard to miss that while the joke was on them, it WASN'T directed to the other side. That makes your position look a little smug, and whether that was intentional or not, it rubs some people the wrong way. Of course, come to think of it, some of our rants probably look a little smug because we're so sure we know what we're talking about - hmmm. Oh well, I guess thats the nature of disagreement - whenever you're lodged in a position its hard to see how that position seems to other people. Anyway - I do hope Megahouse and Beagle take a crack at this set and don't let it drop because of the disastrous Aoshimas and potentially poor sales on the CM's. There's the potential to make an extremely sucessful toy line here, unfortunately I think some of the transformable mecha designs we've seen over the past few years have set the bar a lot higher than it has been in the past.

Wow - it's amazing how much difference a finish makes! Studying the vehicle modes closely, and the hinges and joints as best I can from the pictures, the CM's seems to have a nicer looking vehicle mode, very close to perfect transformation, slightly better rider proportions, and a somewhat more solid design in a smaller package - but they shot themselves in the foot with the finish. The panel lines are thin and hardly visible, while the seams are actually thicker than the details! Theres a ton of visible screws and very little painting. Megahouse did the exact opposite - the panel lines are thick and deep, almost all the details are three dimensional instead of just flat (like the sensors on the chest) and they really went out of their way to hide the seams and screws. Throw in all the little extras and the megahouse looks like a display piece painted and touched up by a professional, while the CM's look like they've just been snapped together out of an older bandai model kit. Despite having to be taken apart like a lego set, having giraffe necks on a toy that needs to be beheaded in order to work, and a bike front that is just shaped totally wrong for the design, it's just so beautiful it's hard to notice, much less care. Lets hope its as solid as it looks, I'm aching to see the reviews on these when they come out. The nicely painted heads help with the MH's too - the characters really are themselves and give the toys personality, while the CM's could be, well, anybody in a ride armor. It's a shame - like with many of the MOSPEADA toys, it would be wonderful if we could get the best of both worlds - but its great that the competition is out there! Any way we slice it, there are a bunch of options now for one of our most beloved and least depicted mecha. Frankly, I'm holding out for the Beagle version. I hope they pay attention to their competitors right now - the design looks fantastic (even if the feet are a little small, they at the very least have the best looking bike and rider of the bunch, and the visible shocks on the back of the "gauntlets" makes me hope for a ride-armor that actually looks like a functional exo-suit) but just based on the reaction in here, I strongly suspect it will be the finish that makes or breaks that toy. Megahouse set the bar really high in that regard, I hope Beagle is paying attention. I also hope beyond hope that if these ride armors sell well Beagle and MegaHouse might try the Legioss and Tread . . . . Or even better - that Yamato watches them, learns from all the successes and mistakes, and shocks us with some phenomenal MOSPEADA stuff somewhere down the line . . . .

Awesome, that absolutely puts the gaudy gold trimmed anniversary "Excalivor" valk to shame. Yamato definitely needs to use that paint scheme, I haven't gotten a 19 yet and that would be just the right excuse . . . . . Just gimme time to save some money up first!

My guess is that a large number of people who are attracted to Macross are attracted to VARIABLE units. People on these forums freaked out when the QueadlunnReau came out because it was a nontransformable hunk of plastic (if beautifully sculpted) that was just as expensive as the VF's. Lets face it, the transformable fighters have an appeal even outside of macross collectors (if only by a relatively small margin) whereas the classic bad guys would only really appeal to a subsection of the hard core fans (although those fans might be willing to buy them by the bushel). Swarms of pods would probably only really sell if they were pretty inexpensive, and when you are used to getting a percentage from toys that range between a hundred and two hundred dollars, it might not seem like the profits on army builders are worth the risk that they'll sit and collect dust (especially since the people who want them would still more than likely want them in scale with the VF's - I'm not sure if big AND cheap happens in the collectibles market). From a business point of view it probably seems less risky to stick with the high end collectibles that they KNOW people are willing to shell out a pretty penny for (after all, diving into the transformable collectible market was a risk to begin with) - from what I've gathered (again I'm not 100% sure of this) the Q-reau didn't do anywhere near as well as Yamato was hoping. As much as I love the gluag, I have to admit I'd rather see the variable gluag than Kamjin's version, but that may just be me (but I'm just demented enough to be curious about what Yamato could do with some of the Varauta mecha, and those are REALLY unpopular designs). My two cents (okay, maybe three, but who's counting?)

I'm sorry, the "toy" excuse just doesn't make sense to me. The target audience is older fans, it HAS to be because Mospeada is an older anime. Older fans are going to want "replicas" of the mecha they love, not just kiddie-toy approximations (theres a ton of those out there already for a lot less than 300 dollars). In that respect TOYNAMI got the gist of it better than CM's (which is absolutely terrifying). This design makes absolutely no sense with both the price point and the audience. For three hundred dollars, I'd want something that looks like a toynami with a CAD designed plastic exterior and a diecast ratcheting skeleton holding it together - scratch that, I'd want that for a 150-200 dollar toy. For three hundred it better be a titanium 1/35 scale, or it better friggin actually be able to fly . . . . I have to go with the groundswell of dissappointment on this one. Part of what's so maddening is that the most annoying problems are EASY FIXES! Shorter tailfins in exchange for not sticking out of the forearms? Making the intakes bigger? While I'm not a big fan of the backwards horseshoe knees, all they needed was an extra sliding piece to cover them up (going into the upper leg so as not to impinge on the hinge) and they could have still gotten away with that transformation (which is probably a lot more solid than the slider approach for the whole leg, which I'm guessing thats why they did it). Heck, just making the chest piece that holds the cyclone fold OUT in battroid mode so that it doesn't have quite so awful a necktie thing going would help a lot. None of these things effect the durability, construction, or expense of the toy, nor should any of them have been difficult to implement at the design stage. I think the fact that the arms CAN be spaced more than they are in most fighter mode pics means that if they simply raised the alpha a bit, the linkup would be good enough. Almost all the problems are on the Alpha, which actually has a long history of designs to learn from and requires nowhere near the level of anime magic as the Tread. It should have been by far the easier of the two. Heck, a scaled down gakken with an improved sculpt and paint job would have probably done it, or even a direct copy of the toynami design with different materials choices (I still think if it had been made entirely out of GOOD plastic and given a ratcheting metal joint structure it would have been been nearly perfect for its scale - with all that I would have probably even forgiven the atrocious forearm missles and the feet that need to be positioned just right to allow the legs to slide into place - though I'd still reserve the right to roll my eyes!). I'll forgive paint smudges, slight factory defects, minor joint looseness in a part - somewhat awkward transforming joints, even the occassional part that doesn't quite work the way it was originally intended. I'm hardly super critical because I recognize that these are mass produced and not lovingly assembled by Geppetto in his workshop - but the original matrix has to at least be, well, on par with what you'd expect given both the audience and the price tag you hope to charge. Geez, I'm not an engineer, but its pretty certain with a little trial and error little old me (or any one else on this site)could have touched up CM's product to an acceptable point before release - is their design department on crack? When amateurs (and even TOYNAMI, Toynami for crissakes, which should be a step below amateur) can out-design something there's a serious problem . . . . I'm sorry, the only way I'd even consider picking this up is if it were priced the way it looks - in short, like a pair of transformer knock offs, not a high end collectible. Charge me sixty bucks and I might take it.

I wish I could afford to say yes to both remaining spots, but surely none of us wants to be in the list of "flakes" the good captain has experienced because of lack of funds. There is 150 dollars set aside for ONE 1/72 model, it's not possible at his point to guarantee more. Hopefully someone out there can spare enough to be number forty . . . . the diet of ramen noodles has darn near turned me into a pillar of salt as it is! If it helps any, I WANT two (one for battroid, one for copter) and will scrape pennies as much as possible - would a definite bid for one and an honest maybe on the other be enough to take this to forty? Depending on how long it takes for him to develop the sculpt its a reasonable possibility for me to plug enough quarters in the o'l piggy bank. Hmm, there's always a third job . . . . Gawd we're so close, and most of has have wanted to see this for years . . . . .

I only saw a few episodes when, through a mixup at the stations, we were somehow getting Showtime on our rabbit ears. I loved it, and spent a lot of years trying to find more - heh, and discovered a lot of other cool anime in the process . . . .

So far I've exercised so much self control that I've only bought one product from Yamato (my soul bears deep, red scars from this from the inner battle from most of Grahams announcements). But I must have this with the 19 - looks like it's living off raman noodles for a while (if you eat the packaging too you can go an extra week without spending money). Still, if we weren't divorced already, Yamato would be on mentioned repeatedly on the divorce letter.

Just to be out in left field, I wonder if Yamato is planning on penetrating this saturation of Mospeada mecha that appears to be coming from various sources? Of course if it were certainly Macross related and based on the vehicles combat role I would guess VF-17 nightmare.

Excellent points both. Heh, it would take great effort to suck more than the original Robotech: the movie, and yes, Macross still remains unblemished for those of us who love it. However Mr. March gives us a reason, oddly enough, to root for Robotech in this one. For better or for worse what little knowledge most people have of Macross in the U.S. is through Robotech (except for those lucky enough to have been exposed to the original anime) - and while I probably shouldn't give a rats behind what most people think, their opinion (and sometimes ignorance) has effected what we see here and does effect the possibilities we have in the future (just look at the Wizards toy rating post). Personally, I'd like to see Macross get more attention in the U.S. and maybe (I'm dreaming I know) give the creators reason to look to us as an audience instead of a nice side note. If this is enough of a restart for some of the legal issues to slip away, and the attention encourages enough people to actually look into the anime that inspired this . . . . well, again - it's a long shot but it seems like our best hope in that regard. At least Tobey seems sincere, so I don't anticipate a great deal of childhood rape (at least any more than simply watching the series as an adult has already done).

Well, I did a little research on the writer they tapped and it gives me some little glimmer of hope. Apparently he has some acclaim as having written the best un-produced script in Hollywood right now (The Brigands of Rattleborge) which is apparently an adaptation of a Vertigo title. I'm not sure who makes this kind of decision (if it's studio execs I might be frightened) but at least his selection makes me think that McGwire entertainment really wants this to be a well written script. Of course those of you who know more about Hollywood and such things as this little black list of the best scripts will undoubtedly enlighten us - do we have reason for hope or is this a silly accolade?

Well, at least it's not Uwe Boll. Although McGuire productions? My hope is that he's enough of a fan to at least TRY to get something true to the better elements of Robotech (as much as I would rather see Macross, there is still a little part of me that thinks with a decent writer Robotech actually has potential as a space opera - of course that's probably far too much to ask) Of course there is only so much it can resemble the original - good lord, can you picture Tobey with a thirty pound mass of plaster Hikaru hair? Lisa with cast iron cinnamon hair buns? And if they do Zentraedi I'm hoping they have at least a half decent explanation of why they look like us - people are less likely to buy fully humanoid aliens now that it's really not necessary to do the StarTrek thing. I can take a little cheese in the dialog (I'm expecting it) I'm just hoping the whole conceit doesn't come of as so ridiculous that it would be difficult to watch without a red face. Ironically, when I was a kid I would have prayed for something like this- now I'm just hoping for gouda as opposed to rancid, chunky, smelly cheese. Still, theoretically, they could have some cool CG if the pockets are deep enough. I hope someone at ILM owes Tobey a favor, I would love to see CG valkyries if they are done well and at the very least an honest homage to the original. My fingers are crossed for gouda.

Saturation penetration? OMG they're releasing the Pink Peckers! LOL

Or maybe that sig is a pun. If he means "soak" by saturation penetration we could jump to S.O.C. (okay, I'm getting a little crazy now, but it would be cool . . . .). Bah, I'm going to be spawning intricate conspiracy theories soon, it's time for me to go to bed.

Hmmm, our devoted and deviously demented sith-lord leaves left a little note in yellow that says "RBTL", which I'm guessing means read between the lines. Well, theres a lot of ways you could break apart what he says, but my initial guess is that someone ELSE is going to approach the two-seaters . . . of course he could just mean that Yamato is going to re-release or improve the 1/60 scale, but somehow that doesn't seem terribly likely. I'm sure entire topics will be devoted to this; that sig sounds like a rather fancy way to describe rain or possibly a leak - but we'll all be chewing on that for some time. My first reaction was that he was hinting at Wave, but it just doesn't fit the description. Graham does a good job of breaking us - a little torture then a little tidbit here and there. After all, a Sith-lord's gotta maintain that love/hate relationship in order to keep us dogs obedient! Out of curiosity- do you think Yamato messes with Graham from time to time so he just has to take it out on us, or do you think he's just the type that's got a basement decorated in early spanish inquisition? Anyway Graham - thanks for the info, um, I think (did I just hear maniacal laughter and a cracking whip?).

Is Toynami making a bit of a break with HG or is something else going on? Maybe it's an old factoid to the rest of you, but I didn't realize these were actually marketed as "Macross DYRL" products as opposed to Robotech - it seems encouraging though. HG might just be letting go. . . It's also nice to see that the puffy skull on the 1/100 seems to have disappeared. Roys sig looks completely flat to the cockpit in the pictures anyway. Toynami (gasp) is actually paying a little bit of attention to their customers! If the super armor stays on and the QC is still tight, I may have to snatch these up. The beta is finally slated for release: good news! Hopefully the part on the molds they are still working on is the cockpit - I'm sorry, what they have just seems like too much of a cop out to me . Even thought they have a history of falling to pieces, on the Alphas at least they genuinely tried hard to get them to look right (I can't really complain, mine luckily has no major flaws - but it was still scary enough that I wouldn't have risked buying another). Although the odds against it are really high, maybe this means that Toynami is making a sincere effort to change as a company. Okay, probably not, but it's nice to hope sometimes . . . . So we'll have three different companies doing Cyclones for sure - Toynami, Beagle, and Megahouse (possibly 4 if CM's follows up it's Legioss). And at least two are doing a connecting Legioss (Well, three, but Aoshima is taking it's molds from Toynami so I'll wait to see how much they improve them)- Wow, great times for Mospeada fans! Has there ever been updated images of the CM's designs, or has it pretty much vanished after the first "Holy cow that jet mode is Fugly" reaction?

It's not an elf - its a vulcan. After all, aliens really look like us except for the little cosmetic differences (like a giant walnut in the forehead for instance). It's nothing new in science fiction - nobody would bond with the multidimensional slug that communicates by ripping out its organs and making them change color. Although I would give points to any series that at least tried . . . .

Actually, the reason I've seen given is even more ridiculous - although I'd have to dig around to find it again. In one description of Battle 7 it said that the Macross class ships were given the ability to transform as a memorial to the original ship - in short, it wasn't necessary, it was just done to honor the original. Yep, they just wait to get it transformed, charged up, and then fire just to honor the original Macross - in my humble opinion that would be an absolutely a$$inine reason to die. Although the little kid in me still thinks Battle Seven looks cool, I can't imagine the Deadalus maneuver performed through the guts of a protodeviln would be any more effective than just shooting at it (which was pretty useless if I remember correctly). They would have to have a VERY good reason why a 3/4 mile tall hunk of metal would need to physically grapple with something when guns and missiles are available. Okay, not even a spectacular reason (after all, in the original they needed to change the ship to use the gun, but there was no reason it had to appear somewhat humanoid), but at least something that sounds like they HAD to design it that way out of military necessity would be nice. In short, perfect verisimilitude might not be possible but geez, they could at least make an appreciable effort. It almost pains me to admit that I have enough sympathy for bad taste that a fist-fight between capitol ships could be kind of cool, but there better at least be an honest attempt to make it fit sensibly in the logic of the Macross Universe (um, when logic is actually used that is). It could have been worse though, it could have had a GIANT GUITAR and "Rocked" the larger protodeviln into submission . . .

Done in the style of 300? Nothing but half naked oiled up burly men? This could be an oscar contender - Brokeback Greyskull. He-Man: "If you ever try to get into Greyskull again, I'll make sure your a$$ never recovers". Skeletor: "Please He-man, pummel me some more - harder this time, harder . . . ."

If it helps any, as a bit of support I can say that both of the books that we used in my neurology and neuropsychology classes made the point that the notion of us using only a small portion of our brains is actually a very old and outdated theory - that was when they still thought some of the smaller cells in our brain were at "early stages of development". If you look at a PET scan you will see that these "inactive cells" actually light up. If you watch the same PET scan for a few minutes you will see that the entire mass is lit up (througout the entire three dimensional structure). All the neurologists I've met back this up - I've also seen it on screen. So we are using every last iota of our brain in our daily lives - now whether or not we are using it efficiently is another matter. But that has very little to do with studies of ESP. In fact if anyone had actually "proved" ESP they would have won a million dollars (at least from the National Science Foundation, I think there are a number of other cynical organizations that offer as much or more for proof of the paranormal). So far no one has. But people who are very good natural psychologists can make great guesses, and using people responses edge them to the point that they appear almost supernatural. Of course ESP can still make a very interesting plot device in a science fiction story. Emphasis on the fiction - just because we don't have it doesn't mean that it couldn't happen, just not with the HUMAN brain as it is. Sorry - it's probably not good to let this thread shoot to far off tangent, but I couldn't help but throw my two bits in.

Dang! I knew I shouldn't have tried those mushrooms! [attachmentid=42638]