deathzealot

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Probably at least twice as many LD-262S Lilldrakens as they had Sv-262 Draken IIIs... likely more than that, given that they would have expected to have a higher loss rate for the unmanned support fighters.

Every Sv-262 Draken III operating in space was outfitted with a pair of LD-262S Lilldrakens to offset the Draken III's comparatively low onboard fuel capacity by serving as a combination of drop tank and booster.

The only times we see Draken IIIs without Lilldrakens is when they're operating on Windermere IV itself.

Hmmm... Somewhere around five thousand would be a good number if the Windermere had indeed two thousand Draken IIIs.

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Hard to say... matters of cost are almost never discussed except when something is either too expensive, or they're trying to frame something as comparatively inexpensive like the QF-4000/AIF-7 vs. the VF-171.

Wasn't the QF-4000 a third the price of the VF-171? Since the Lilldraken is a bit smaller then Ghost it should be a bit cheaper then it. Or it would be a bit more expensive thanks to the extras it can equip like the jammer it equipped to knock down Walkure's drones.

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It may also be to the Sv-262's advantage that it normally sorties with two Lilldraken units that function as additional boosters and drone aircraft.

You know, I often wonder how many Lilldrakens Windermere actually had since they were used as disposable grunts or shields more then once in the series. Not to mention I wonder what its price happens to be when compared to say a full-on military specced QF-4000 Ghost Fighter.  Also did every Draken carry Lilldrakens or was that only the mainline Aerial Knights?

I always thought it was kind of similar to the fan-created Voyuer/Vixen Semi-Variable Unit from the Unofficial Robotech Reference Guide. 

43 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

(possibly this was the fate of Megaroad 1?)

You do know that there is a fanfiction about that right? 

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

#whoisladyM?

Raised eyebrow.

Really? I really do not think that we will ever know who actually happens to Lady M.

1 minute ago, Focslain said:

These

Ah. Should have guessed. Variable Fighter Girls. Similar to that of MS Girls from Gundam. Thanks.

3 minutes ago, Focslain said:

VFG line

What's that?

And yes I would love to see some of the side stories be animated in some way. Like the Macross The Ride.

Can anyone think of one during Delta. I cannot remember one right now but it has been awhile since I watched the series. I think there was one with that one Mercat but I don't remember it entirely.

Shrug. I didn't see this thread earlier or I would have posted what I think about Delta over a year ago when I first watched the series. However, I did not see this thread and while I have posted elsewhere on what I think about the series I haven't put it into one large post like this one will be. So here we go.

Cough.

Okay. Delta first came out around the time I was still going to my local community college and I remember I had finally managed to watch both of the Frontier movies trying to watch them for around a year or so. I wasn't all that impressed with what I heard about the story of the series therefore I turned my attention to other fandoms. Since that was the time that I was really getting back into Gundam. Over the years since then I heard more about the series through clips posted on Youtube or through posts on forums like Spacebattles but it was only during late last year when I was preparing for writing for that years National Novel Writing Month that I buckled down and watched the series in its entirely.

I was quite surprised to find that I did kind of enjoy the series more then I thought I would. While I did see that bit of magical girl in the series as some people mentioned it did not really turn me off since in my adulthood I have been more interested in Magical Girl anime then I was during my teenage years. So it actually made some things interesting for me. Though I should mention that looking back after rewatching the entire Frontier Series I can see that all of that so called magical girlness in the series is actually technology shown a couple of times during Frontier. Still it did not turn me away from watching the series. I actually liked the overall story and I liked the new Valkyries more then I liked the hero Valkyrie of Frontier the Messiah. Maybe it was because much of the fighting for Delta is on planets instead of the blackness of space but I loved the new Valkyries. I also liked the idea of the bad guys also having Valkyries themselves which was quite interesting. I also liked the Macross Elysion more then I did the Macross Quarter from Frontier. It reminded me more of the original SDF-1 then any other Macross series ship. I admit there were some things I did not like about the series as it went on, like Hayate refusing to wear a helmet or again not having any focus on the background Valkyrie pilots, but I got over that in time. 

After starting on the second cour of the series I was kind of leery for I had heard from some posts I have read that is were the story of the series starts going downhill. However, as I watched the second half of the series I found that I actually liked it. It wasn't good as the first half I admit but it wasn't all out bad in my mind. It had its pitfalls I admit but it was quite interesting. I kind of wish they expanded on the whole being out in space thing and having more refugees from the Cluster showing up over time but it was interesting. I also wanted them to expand a bit more on the Voldorians and their own resistance against Windermere a bit more. Still I did like this second half the series and I all out enjoyed the final battle for it was quite interesting in my mind.

That said. As I mentioned there were plenty of stuff I really did not like about the series and some stuff I wished this focused more on, like a small amount more focus on the grunts of Xaos and NUNS, a bit more focus not on Xaos but the rest of the Cluster. You get the idea. With that said though I think that they used the time they had wisely. I really wished they had the series longer which would have allowed them to explore a bit more of these issues I had.

Alright that is about it for this post. I hope I managed to get at one person to watch the series, but I do admit that it is not for everyone.

Honestly. I think I mentioned it before but one major thing I want to see in the next Macross series would be Kawamori's original proposal for Delta which was a Competition between two different Valkyrie Demonstration Squads. I personally think that is going to be what the second Delta Movie is going to be about since the war story is over with the first movie therefore we could actually see that original proposal in some form with maybe a grand Walkure concert. Shrug. Just a guess.

Still I have a couple of other ideas I want to see in the next Macross series.

The first is something similar to that of the Megazone 23 series having two colony fleets getting into a war with one another. We had some of that in Frontier between the Frontier and the Galaxy but I want to have entirely being human vs human instead of being a backdrop of another human vs alien fight. I know we also got some of that in Delta but the Kingdom of Windermere are not really a human colony but a Protoculture seeded human-like alien race. Not to mention already established colony worlds. I want a war between two different colony fleets lightyears from any other human claimed space or colony. Just these two fleets that just decided to go at it for some reason or another.  Anyways just an idea I would like to see.

The second idea I have is maybe focusing on a human colony fleet encountering the Supervision Army in some form. Macross 7 had humanity fighting against the overall leaders in charge of the original Supervision Army the Protodeviln but not on the Supervision Army itself which is still in a constant fight with the Zentradi. Basically having a colony fleet stumbling into a portion of space that is a constant battlefield between a Zentradi Grand Fleet and a Supervision Army Fleet. I think that would be an interesting story and a different style from that of the original Macross.

Okay. That is my couple of ideas for what we can expect for the next Macross series.

4 minutes ago, Ominae said:

Hey folks.

Been wondering if anyone has ideas on how to proceed with Alto since I wrote in my fic (as of now) that he's not joining SMS.

Honestly, I could see a dedicated exploration of his relationship with that of his family. Mostly his father and that other man who is the adopted brother of Alto. Maybe, ending up with him end up becoming an actor in that one movie based on Macross Zero like what happens in the series itself but more of a central role. That kind of reignites his love of acting or something like that. That is the only real thing I can think of using Alto for if he never joins the SMS. You could also have him joining the regular NUNS Forces or something like that. 

19 hours ago, Skullsixx said:

Thought I'd share. I got a drone over the summer. I had to stripe it up right. Still getting familiar with the piloting. I've been flying it at a few local southwest Vegas parks. 

Damn. Really, wish I did not live up in Northwest Vegas right now. Sigh.

2 hours ago, sketchley said:

Nevertheless, it's safe to assume that the Picket Ship also carries a contingent of Rigādo Battle Pods.  As the Dojinshi claims: they also double as escape pods!

Raised Eyebrow. Escape Pods on Zentradi ships...

1 minute ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Nope, there were a bunch of rejected Ride Armor concepts that were used in the "UEEF Marines" sourcebook... but IIRC the so-called "Super Cyclone" you're thinking of was something they came up with for Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles (and all it really is is a regular VR-052 MOSPEADA painted black - because black is edgy, right? - with a bigger gun).

Sorry. I screwed up there. I meant the original Super Cyclone the Devestator which for a long time was pretty much fanon was based on some concept lineart for the original series. Also I did not know those new Cyclones for the UEEF Marines book were actually concepts for Ride Armor. That does make some sort of sense. 

5 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Oh, the 126 person figure is for the coast guard cutter in question... I used the Heritage-class as an example, since it's approximately to scale with a Zentradi fleet picket in terms of the relative sizes of crew and ship.  Though, as noted, the picket would have less space for actual crew since it has to accommodate a hangar as well.  So in all likelihood, your headcanon's fairly close to the truth.

 

Heh. I could see those ships being cramped for Zentradi similar to World War II submarines for humans just with a hangar. It would be quite amusing to see the reactions of their older Zentradi crews when the ships are refitted for human crews. I believe the old Legend of Megaroad fanfiction  says it best: "Love the extra leg room". 

8 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's been called a lot of things... for the longest time people were calling it by the name Quiltra Quelamitz and asserting it's a monitor.  The ship is a gunboat, and doesn't have a class name.  Fanon's weird sometimes.

Huh. You know I think it was mostly because the SDF-1 is orginally a Supervision Army Gun Destroyer and having that ship called a Zentradi Gunship would too close to that designation. Shrug. Just a guess. Also I agree. I still remember some Gundam fanon stuff. 

12 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Though I did recently notice something that'd been bugging me and sketchley.  The term "GNERL" that we couldn't source is actually from the show's very first episode.

What? Where was that at? 

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Oh, yes... after they exhausted what little official setting material exists for Robotech, HG gave them permission to use the so-called "Imai Files" for what turned out to be the game's last book (of blatant filler) before the publisher's license was revoked.  It was an embarrassing desperation move and a hilariously poor-quality product even by the publisher's already-low standards.

 

Huh. Did not know that. I remeber something about the Super Cyclone being something developed for the Mospeada series but never was shown, along with some of the new Invid mecha introduced in one of the more recent RP Books being similiar. 

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yup... if you get right down to it, in scale to its crew, the Zentradi fleet picket is about the same size as a typical US Coast Guard patrol cutter.  Those have a crew of 126, and didn't have to support aircraft.  The picket's got a big damn hangar at the back that's going to cut into the available space rather heavily.

They scaled it back somewhat in RT2E, but at no point have they gone to the actual numbers in the OSM and noticed that the average Zentradi ship should only have a crew of about 1,500 men.

Blink. I was guessing somewhere around 50 to 100 crew for the Picket, but that does make sense. I also recently started to believe that the Picket only had a small mecha complement and only of fighter pods. That said. That was only my head canon. 

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There are no Monitors in the Zentradi forces... the ship you're thinking of is a gunboat. (中型砲艦) 

The key distinction there is that a monitor is a ship designed for ship-to-ship combat that carries disproportionately large guns while a gunboat is a ship mounting a heavy gun that's made for surface bombardment.

Opps. I do not know where I got Monitor then. Could have sworn it was called that. 

Anyways thanks for the reply Seto. 

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

In an unusual turn for the publisher, Palladium Books's "2nd Edition" Robotech RPG isn't atrociously inaccurate... in no small part because a lot of its information was shamelessly cribbed from Macross fan sites.  So much so, in fact, that they accidentally copied things that are unique to Macross's sequels and not at all present in Robotech like the UUM-7 micro-missile pod used by the VF-1 Valkyrie.

Not to mention they used some of the pre-production sketches for both SDC Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada for some new units for Robotech. That is if I remember correctly.

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That said, their stats for Zentradi ships tend towards the absurd because the writers of the RPGs seem to have no concept of the size of these ships relative to their crews.  They end up being given ridiculously massive crew sizes and mecha complements because the writers forget the individual crew members are 125x the size of a human being, making the ships 1/5 the relative size in every dimension if you're looking at them in human terms.  Relative to its crew, the largest regular Zentradi ship is only about 2/3 the size of the Macross relative to her miclone crew.

The most amusing of those stats is for the Zentradi Picket Ship which claims it sports a crew higher then a hull like that can carry. Now if that ship was being crewed by regular sized humans then that would be a different story.

27 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Macross is extremely heavily armed compared to other UN Forces warships of the period... but its armament isn't particularly impressive compared to the larger Zentradi warships unless you count it having thermonuclear reaction munitions and various add-ons like a barrier system that the Zentradi didn't.

Do not forget the big gun! Since only the Zentradi Monitors had them, officially anyways.

Agreed. Most likely they remained Very Close Friends with one another for Isamu isn't the type to settle down. Though I would not be surprised if they make a try of a relationship but it backed fire soon afterwards.

An interesting explanation. Thanks Seto for the answer. 

So question.

You mentioned that information on variants and such earlier but I musk ask. Wouldn't having variants of a same model unit be cheaper then trying to develop a whole new unit for the same mission. Since these different variants would share parts thanks to them being pretty much the same unit with some differences.

Honestly when I first watched Frontier I was not a fan of the Messiah visually, maybe because of the CGI and being in space, while I actually preferred the Nightmare Plus. It was only recently when I was rewatching Frontier that I started to like the Messiah more then I had in the past. Side note, I also right off the bat loved the Siegfried. Though that is visually not looking at the specs and what it has done during battle scenes.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

What @Master Dex said.

Granted, we don't know what the budget for Bird Human was... but given that the film was set to be the debut of a beauty pageant winner who presumably had no acting experience to speak of, it was probably closer in budget and scope to a Japanese domestic market film than an American big-budget Hollywood film.  Tens, rather than hundreds, of millions of dollars for a budget.  The most expensive film produced in Japan at time of writing - the 2013 animated fantasy film Kaguya-hime no Monogatari - had a budget of $49.3 million (US).  Budgets in the single-digit millions (US) are more typical for a character-heavy drama.  The estimated budget for the 2006 Death Note movie was $20 million (US) thanks to the use of CGI for its shinigami, comparable to what was spent on the hilariously camp direct-to-video Starship Troopers 3: Marauder.  

Purpose-building a handful of replica VF-0's and SV-51's similar to what was used on Uroboros for the dogfight scenes would probably have cost most, or all, of the film's budget... and hiring stunt pilots to fly them wouldn't have been cheap either.  They'd already blown a chunk of their budget licensing a Sheryl Nome song for the movie too... that can't have been cheap.

It's not clear if Strategic Military Services was hired for the film, or were simply volunteering their services in the name of some cheap advertising.  I'm guessing it's the latter.  Having the military support filming a movie ain't cheap either.  Adjusted for inflation, having the US Navy's F-14's fly outside of their regular duties for filming cost the film's budget around $19,000 per hour just to get the F-14's in the air.  Having SMS volunteer the services of highly trained fighter pilots and using their VF-25's for motion capture for CGI VF-0's that the filmmakers would add in post-production would have been a huge savings to the budget.  Their only other options would've been to appeal to the Frontier NUNS or maybe Mihoshi Academy's flight school.  SMS had the advantage that their VF-25s are similarly sized to the VF-0, where the Frontier NUNS's VF-171s are a bit smaller and Mihoshi Academy's VF-1C Valkyries are a LOT smaller. 

(In the Macross Frontier short story Actors Sky, the Bird Human movie's lead actor Akira Kamishima had to do some training in a VF-1C in preparation for reshoots because the film's director was unsatisfied with his performance in the cockpit shots... that probably would've cost a fair sum too.)

Interesting. Figured a movie set in the future would have a bit more ease of time and money to shoot such a movie like Bird Human (thank you forgot the name for it). Still I can see where you are coming from.

On an aside. I did not know that Mihoshi Academy had their own Valkyries. I know they had the one display model on top of the school but I did not know they had ones that could be flown. Learn something new.

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, it started life as a VF-0... what it was rebuilt into really belongs more in the same category as the SV-52 орел.  

"A customized Valkyrie of unknown origin produced to imitate the VF-0".  

Well, except that we know exactly what its origins are... the above remark is, save for the "VF-0" part, how the SV-52 орел is described since it's indicated to have a lot of VF-17 hardware under the hood despite allegedly starting its life as a SV-51.  Katori Brown-Robins did some interesting things to that VF-0 airframe.  The end result was more "a YF-25 thinly disguised as a VF-0" than anything.

Huh. If they could do that I wonder why the SMS crew didn't mock up a VF-0 for the Movie during Frontier?

Jeez, Guys. You have been blowing up my inbox over the past two days with notices of new replies. Shakes head.
 

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah, gaming is a lot easier when you're a kid and you don't have all those responsibilities... long gone are the days when I could organize weekly sessions.

4 hours ago, sketchley said:

There's always play-by-post.  It's nowhere near as fast as in-person, but scheduling a session is no longer a problem.

That said, those responsibilities rear their ugly heads even in PBP RPGing...

Still, like to mention something in this discussion about Macross Tabletop Role-Playing Games. Back when I was young and dumb I ran several PBP RPs, or as I called them at the time Novel Type RPs, using a website called Rpol.net which has some neat tools and such for Roleplaying. Figured I mention it.

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

Well , flying cargo for SMS to pay her off may be considered minor punishment. At least he had Basara and Ranka on one run (to Earth I believe) Lol.

With the VF-19 Advance kitty in Isamu's hands, we're talking a one man platoon.

2 hours ago, Focslain said:

Barsara and Freya actually.

Huh. Where is that from?

2 minutes ago, jeniusornome said:

I think the Caliburn was a special 19 from The Ride?

Yes, but if I remember correctly the Caliburn was actually developed for the use of the SMS, mostly the SMS Frontier Branch which they used it before they received their Messiahs. In fact, I do believe they are also mentioned in the Frontier novelizations. Am I correct @Seto Kaiba?