deathzealot

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

"VF-19 SMS Ver."

Isn't the VF-19 SMS Version the VF-19EF Caliburn? Or was that another name for Isamu's own variant he used at the end of the second Frontier Movie?

14 minutes ago, Captain Global said:

What is your source for the original kawamori pitch?  Would like to know more. 

Think it was mentioned by @Seto Kaiba somewhere in this thread or maybe another one.

25 minutes ago, rick.vale said:

Yack Deculture!

Vegas Deculture!

Nice to have you rick.vale. Glad to see another Macross fan from Sin City.

7 hours ago, rick.vale said:

Carl Macek made me a Macross fan too.

Ah. Robotech. You have to love it and hate it. I love it that it brought me into the world of mecha anime in general but I kind of hate it for other different things.

Just now, dna said:

Was Delta actually received well enough to make 2 followup movies? Because this surprises me.

Errr... I am not the best person to answer this, but since we already got the first movie which has been out for a couple years and another supposed to be releasing sometime this year or next then I think that it is a given.

Just now, dna said:

Nope.  What is this?

That is the new fighter for the Second Macross Delta Movie I do believe.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross 30 showing a VF-25 from Sephira

Wasn't that a YF-25 Prophecy? 

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Or, hell, let's go towards the realistic and have the PMC be the bad guys... or maybe an underequipped PMC can save the day, like in Terrestrial Defense Enterprise Dai-Guard.

Huh. That would quite interesting actually. Though maybe not anytime soon I think we have gotten enough of PMCs in Macross for a bit.

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

On another note entirely, I found a pic (or so I thought) some time ago amongst the online series productionl sketches of the bridge internals for the SDF-1 (google searches for sdf-1 bridge sketches, black and white). From what I recall, it showed a pic of the bridge from the inside, showing the layers of the bridge tower, but from the back facing forward. The thing I recall was that in the sketch, there was a battle pod (or some other Zentraedi mech, not sure) attacking the bridge bubble, and it had cracked it with laser fire. It showed the crew in panic and shock, and Captain Gloval high-tailing it, running as fast as he could for the exit!

(needless to say, the sketch was apparently done as a joke I think!)

Has anyone else run across this or ever seen/ heard of it? Or...is dementia setting in on my part?

 

6 hours ago, sketchley said:

This is Animation The Select #11 Macross DYRL Pg 76.

It's a Super VF-1 "accidentally" bumping into the forward glass.

I think I saw that somewhere but I don't remember where I did find it. I just remember Global booking it out of the bridge.

4 hours ago, kajnrig said:

IIRC, the original pitch for Delta was two competing civilian flight demonstration/idol groups, which I would have vastly preferred to what we got. The VF-31 and SV-262 could even still feature as the two sides in a neighboring war that the main story gets dragged into or something. But have the demo teams flying non-VFs or civilian VF-1s/-4s or even VF-9s, that definitely looks the most "trainer"-y of the various VF designs.

Bah. Anyway.

Yup. I would love to see a version of that done in the future. Or maybe something about the Jenius Air Circus which would by this time be under the control of another Jenius daughter instead of Max or Milia.

Another couple ideas I would like to see are either a story focusing on the elusive VF-24 and the Federal NUNS Forces, or go down a slightly different civilian path in something similar to Hayate's job at the beginning of Delta but done with a VF which extends to protection of the transport from pirates or terrorists. Shrug.

17 hours ago, aurance said:

I hope in the next series, they’ll switch to a new lineage of fighters. I love the entire YF-24 derivative line but it might be time for something new as the hero fighter.

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If I had my way, I'd like to see them go backwards a bit and give us a story where the main VF is from one of the neglected generations... like the largely skipped 2nd Generation, the 3rd that was mostly only around as cannon fodder in Plus and 7, or the 4th when the VF-171 was actually new.

I would like to see them doing something with civilian-owned Valkyries similar to say Macross The Ride or Kawamori's original pitch for Macross Delta were we can see modified and modernized versions of older fighters in more civilian roles. Like the Vanquish Races or flight demonstrations. 

32 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Somehow, that one never made it into the final cut of the movie.

Yeah I know. Still though it would have been an interesting change I think.

32 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yup, they're reskins of the same CG model... and the turret is visibly present and accounted for (see 7:27 in Macross Frontier ep7).  The turret isn't exposed in Shuttle mode, you can only see it clearly in the other two modes.

Hmm... Now that you mentioned it yeah they are still there. Huh. They never use them at all.

33 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

IINM, the last we really see or hear of the Dulfim is at around 6:48 in Macross Frontier Ep8... where she's shown to be alongside one of the Macross Frontier's Island-class environment ships.  It's mentioned that the Dulfim's crew had been interviewed about the fate of the Macross Galaxy but that they didn't really know anything useful, and that they were currently quarantined and awaiting medical examination due to the risk of V-type infection.  They just kind of drop off the face of the story after that, except in the movie version where those ships and the refugee ships they escorted carried the cyborgs who hijacked Battle Frontier.

It's been a good while since I last reviewed the novelization and I'm well overdue for a reread, but I don't recall anything specific being mentioned about the fate of the ship or her crew.

Still it is a shame. It would have been interesting to see it appearing like at the final battle or before then.

34 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They're the ones on either side of the cockpit.

Sorry. I meant capable of being swapped. I am aware of those guns.

35 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, almost all of them... there's an eccentricity in the Macross Frontier movie materials that list a different model of coaxial gun on the VF-25's monitor turret (head) that's a laser weapon instead of a beam weapon.

Laser weaponry is exactly what the name indicates: they produce an extremely intense, tightly focused beam of light that damages the target by heating the target's surface until the target's surface burns, melts, or evaporates.  They're very limited weapons in terms of stopping power and top out below the other types of energy weapon in Macross, but they're an extremely precise class of weapon because they fire a tightly focused light beam at, well, the speed of light.  Laser weapons can also be made extremely compact, which is a virtue for something with an internal structure as complicated as a VF's or as cramped as a battle pod or battle suit.

Beam weaponry, on the other hand, is an umbrella term that refers to two different types of directed energy weapon: particle beam weaponry and dimensional beam weaponry.

Particle beam weapons are weaponized  miniature particle accelerators.  They use electromagnetic fields and electrostatic lenses to focus and accelerate subatomic or atomic particles to relativistic velocities (significant fractions of the speed of light) so that the immense transfer of kinetic energy causes the target's surface to superheat almost instantaneously and a deeper hit might see the beam's charge cause secondary damage to onboard electronics.  The Zentradi make widespread use of electron particle beam weapons as the main weapon of the Regult series battle pod.  Macross publications usually aren't specific about what type of particle beam weaponry humanity favors.

Starting in Macross Frontier, the generic term "beam gun" or "beam cannon" started to be applied to dimensional beam weapons too.  These are the exotic energy weapons that are built on the same technology as the Macross's main gun.  They produce a type of ultra-heavy exotic particle called heavy quantum that exists simultaneously in realspace and in fold space, and when they've got enough of it they use fold waves to cause all of its mass to drop into realspace.  This causes the heavy quantum to collapse in on itself due to the heavy quantum's intense gravity, until it ignites in a fusion reaction.  The ensuing explosion triggered by the fusing heavy quantum is corralled using any of several technologies to make a highly destructive beam of fast-moving fusion plasma.  This technology is sometimes called a converging energy cannon, super dimension energy cannon, or more recently a heavy quantum reaction beam cannon.  This technology was mostly confined to ship-based gun turrets and the larger "main gun" type systems, but miniaturized versions began showing up on VFs starting with the VF-19 and VF-22.  (I privately suspect the unspecified "impact cannon" technology the Zentradi have is also a miniaturized dimensional beam weapon.)

Where the line has started to blur has mainly been in warship stats... abbreviating "converging beam cannon" down to just "beam cannon".  When a VF is equipped with dimensional beam weapons, they're usually specifically called out as such instead of being referred to by generic terms.  (Macross Delta publications have been a bit hit-or-miss in that regard.)

Interesting. Still I wonder why the NUNS started dropping Laser Monitor Turrets for small Beam Guns.

36 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They did, in the gaiden manga Macross Delta Gaiden: Macross E.  The Xaos PMC branch on Pipure uses VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX units... albeit without the MDE beam weaponry and other anti-Vajra add-ons.

I am aware of that darn pink-painted thing, I meant in the series itself. Would have been interesting. Though I wonder is that Radome Dish an optional equipment for the VF-171EX or is it a modification?

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross Chronicle's Mechanic Sheet for the VB-6 Konig Monster in the Macross Frontier movies does note that the craft has many armament variations to deal with diverse combat situations, though it doesn't even mention the guns in question.

Interesting. Like the Trailer Version of the machine with the heavy arm guns of a Cheyenne II which has already been mentioned.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

What's interesting here is that there is very clearly more than one set of unlisted guns on the 2050s-2060s era Konig Monster.

Oh. Now that is interesting. So I was not seeing things then.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Both 1st Lt. Canaria Berstein and Cpt. Alberto Larazabal's VB-6 Konig Monsters are depicted firing two different sets of unlisted machine guns.  One set is a pair of machine guns that appear, from the muzzle flashes, to be set into the sides of the nose near the vernier thrusters in Shuttle mode.  The second is the aforementioned set of guns that're mounted in the arms in GERWALK and Destroid modes.  There's an up-close view of Cpt. Larazabal firing the nose guns on his Konig Monster at about 9:50 in Macross Delta's 22nd episode, but they made their debut in Macross Frontier's 7th.

I have also reviewed both of the scenes mentioned myself and does it look like the Nose Turret wasn't on either of those units? Also. I wonder what happened with the Dulfim after Episode Seven of Frontier. Since I do not think we see it afterwards at all. The Kaitos gets destroyed during the episode by the Knight Class ship appearing at the end of the battle but the Dulfim survives but after that we do not see it again. Was there anything about it in the novelization?

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

As to what they are, it's hard to say... since the main Variable Fighters in service around this time seem to have been designed with an eye towards easily exchanging even the internal weapons systems.  For example, the VF-171 and VF-25's fixed-forward guns could be either beam machine guns or conventional machine guns.  There's often little obvious difference, visually, between the two.  Given the space constraints in the VB-6's nose, I'd expect them to be beam machine guns... but it's anyone's guess really.  The sound effect used is the one that's normally used for solid-ammo machine guns though, for what little that's worth.

Huh. I knew about the Messiah's forward guns but did not know it was also in the VF-171 as well. That is interesting. Speaking of which with the Variable Fighters introduced during the last two series we no longer have them sporting laser guns as head guns instead now being called beam guns. Though they still kind look like lasers when firing. So is there any difference between these new beam guns and the old head lasers?

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

One interesting detail - well, interesting to a detail-obsessed mecha nut like me - that I noticed while I was reviewing footage to answer the above question is that the Brisingr Alliance's member worlds seem to be equipping their local New UN Forces defense forces differently.  From the sound effects used, the New UN Forces from Voldor and Al Shahal have outfitted their VF-171s to use conventional machine guns on their forward gun mounts, while Randor's VF-171s seem to be using beam machine guns.

Now that is interesting. For it does make sense. Though I wonder why they didn't throw some of the VF-171EX units in there to make things interesting.

Yeah, @Seto Kaiba,

Have a question for you. I was reading through the VB-6 entry at Macross Mecha Manuel once more thanks to current conversation going on right now and I noticed something. It says the Konig Monster has a single light gun (vulcan gun?) in the "chin" of the shuttle mode and GERWALK mode. However, I remember seeing both in Frontier, and later in Delta that it sports some sort of vulcan gun or gatling cannon built into the arms of the unit. Since the one time we see the Destroid mode of the Konig in Frontier it's blazing away with arm-mounted guns, and during Delta it fired a similar gun at a Draken-III destroying it before landing onto an asteroid in GERWALK mode were it proceeds to one-shot a Windermere Cruiser with its big guns. So does the later variant (2050/2060) of the Konig Monster have added guns in the arms?

20 hours ago, fenrir72 said:

Just imagine having it go against the Invid ( I know different franchise)...........

1 hour ago, fenrir72 said:

You guys are such a big help! Thanks! Way better than those wikias! All the more adding to the mythos of the mech's pure awesomeness!  I also saw what it did to the tank.........OUCH! 

Great. Thanks so much now I am getting "ideas" for an old Robotech story idea I had years ago. Sigh.

3 hours ago, sketchley said:

(the VB-6 stuff starts at around 1:10.  But you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't watch from the start! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GZIWmxMoJk )

Oh man. I had forgotten about opening for this game. It is freaking awesome! I love the whole full-on animated openings!

16 hours ago, Tochiro said:

You’ll be happy to know then that a second movie has been announced and is indeed currently being worked on :-)

I am aware of the second movie. However, what I meant is that we should have gotten a second movie covering the series timeline more time to explore bits of the new storyline. That said. I am quite excited for the second movie since it is going to be a whole new storyline after the end of the series/first movie. 

So I am glad there are more Las Vegas Macross Fans out there. So question? What other anime franchise you all follow?

Okay. After my latest watch of the movie and seeing this thread I figured I put this down before I forget about it.

First, of all I want to mention that I am quite a fan of Delta. Do not know why I am, since Frontier is better overall but still I do like the series. That said. I am not blind to its failings. I actually loved the whole idea of the series moving the Franchise away from Colony Fleets but towards a collection of settled planets. I also liked the idea of having more nationalities out there outside of the Human-lead New United Nations. Even then I know Delta does have some issues and I am okay with that. For it is fun series to watch. Okay. That is enough for the series itself, since this thread is about the movie. 

Moving on. Hmmm... So just in case I shall place my stuff into a spoiler tag.
 

Overall. While it was not as good as the Frontier Movies at all. It was still a fun little piece that was fun to watch. Seto I think said it best earlier. It is a popcorn-crunching action flick but that is all it is. They really should have a second movie like Frontier to spread things out a bit and add a bit more new story stuff also Frontier. Anyways. That is my humble opinion of the movie. Hate it or love it. It is still an interesting movie.

8 minutes ago, de_005 said:

If anyone is interested, here is a wide screen version. It surprised me when they integrated flashback at the end. That was a pleasant surprise.

Not all of it just the bit at the beginning with Minmei's concert. They don't show the Megaroad-01 Launching. Also. I have watched Flashback a couple times now and I never noticed that Minmei's supporting band members are actually full-sized Zentradi. Laughs.

8 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Some of the early City-class ships were a bit weird.  Macross 1's City section, for instance, had no shell.  The alternative is that it's maybe something like one of the supplementary habitat modules that were sometimes docked to the city ships.

Oh. Like that Akusho Section seen in Macross 7?

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Windermereans in Macross Delta are actually a much better example of that... right down to the Protoculture connections, song priestesses, and using songs to boost the combat performance of their troops. 

True. I actually had the idea long before I even started watching Delta.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There were/are more virtuoids like Sharon Apple in the galaxy at one point... one of the characters in the stage musical Macross the Musiculture was one.  The technology to make them truly alive/sentient/self-aware was illegal though, because it had a tendency to result in developing self-preservation behaviors and a case of crazy robots.

Again. True. Though I did not know there were more virtuoids out there beside Sharon Apple. Interesting.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The Dyaus are bio-technological, and are shown in the story to have the ability to reproduce biologically.  How intelligent they truly are is anyone's guess, but they definitely react to intrusions into the Protoculture ruins in a coordinated way that suggests they're fairly intelligent.

Huh. I did not know that they actually could reproduce. Thought they were only some sort of weird bio-weapon created by the Protoculture. Sometimes I really wish I could actually play Macross games. Sigh.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yes, both Ragna and Voldor are New UN Government member planets and members of the Brisingr Alliance.

Windermere IV was too, before the Kingdom of the Wind withdrew from the New UN Government in 2060.

The Brisingr Alliance is a mutual defense pact and trade agreement uniting the New UN Government member planets in the Brisingr globular cluster.  The cluster is so remote that it would be problematic to get reinforcements from outside the cluster should a world in it come under attack, and its remoteness also hindered the development of its economy.  The practical solution to these problems was to form a united front where the various planets in the cluster would reinforce each other if one should be attacked and would support each other's trade to bolster their economies.  The VF-31 Kairos is the Brisingr Alliance's economic brainchild, a locally-developed 5th Generation main Variable Fighter that they could sell as an export instead of having to spend money to import fighters or licenses to locally build fighters from outside the cluster.

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Nope.  It's a reuse of the Island Cluster-class CG model from Macross Frontier but it's clearly MUCH smaller and landed on Ragna about 30 years ago (2037?).

I have, in the past, speculated that it was meant to be an early 3rd Generation emigrant ship - one of the first City-class emigrant ships - possibly being the City-class component of the Macross 2.  We know that the City-class had gained the "Shell" portion of its design by the time Macross 5 was built, and we know the fates of Macross 3 and Macross 4, which is enough to narrow it down to just the Macross 1 or Macross 2, and it doesn't match the pictured configuration of the Macross 1.  This is, however, just speculation.  Its identity hasn't been confirmed.

Huh. So it could be the City Section of the New Macross Fleet that originally found Ragna? The one seen in that one flashback. I thought those particular early City Sections were around 5k meters in length? The Island Jackpot looks to be half-that size. You know I just remembered didn't Macross 5 (and Macross 1 now that I think about it) have more then one City-Section? Therefore. This so-called Island Class could a smaller auxiliary city section for those early Macross Colony Fleets. 

I am glad there are a few other Macross Fans out here in lovely sunny Las Vegas. Though be warned I am not all that much a fan of say Macross Seven or that the stuff created for DYRL? is so prominent in later Macross productions. When everything calms down and goes back to normal. I usually have breakfast at the Denny's at Craig and Valley on Sunday mornings after I get off work. So feel free to join me there when everything goes to some sort of normal after this pandemic starts to run out.

Remember Stay Vegas Strong. Or should that be Vegas Deculture.

7 hours ago, sketchley said:

Well, yes and no.  The Protodevilun are a combination of energy life forms from the sub-universe and the Ehvil Series.  The Ehvil series are basically the successor to the Zentrādi—thus they are "related" to the Protoculture.

Honestly. I am not a fan of the Protodeviln, or much of Macross 7. My personal head canon is that the events we know as Macross 7 is actually a fictional take on the war against the Varauta that was made to promote Fire Bomber and their music. I really do not know what actually happened during this time but I have a couple ideas of what happened. For example, one idea I have is that the Protodeviln are actually similar to that of the Mardook from Macross II and control their forces through songs. 

8 hours ago, sketchley said:

AND a new variant of the Zentradi.  Giving us:

• Zentrādi (TV series ver.;  basically humans)
• Zentran (movie ver.; able to biologically join with their equipment)
• Meltran (movie ver.; essentially have fibre optics for nerves, among other things)
• Ehvil series (essentially forgo the need for external equipment—like Mobile Weapons and space battleships)

Ummm... I would lump all that under Zentradi. Also, I prefer the regular TV versions am not much a fan of the Movie versions of the Zentradi.

8 hours ago, sketchley said:

And what about the other intelligent life forms?  Like the Sharon Apple style AI, or the Galactic Whales?

I wouldn't count either of those. Sharon Apple is a human-created AI and not a Protoculture created race. The Galactic Whales are closest but we don't know much about them, like Seto said do we actually know if they are sentient.

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, there's a few more... before Macross Delta rolled in and added the Ragnans, Voldorans, and Windermereans, Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy introduced two more.  One is the biotechnological insectoid species called the Dyaus that that ancient Protoculture created to keep people from messing with the protective measures they built to seal away the Fold Evil they built that had the power to alter time, and the other being the possibility of a sentient bio-android that we later saw realized in Macross Delta in the form of Walkure's Mikumo Guynemer.

Ummm... I thought the Dyaus are actually artificially created weapons and not really an intelligent race. As for bio-android I had forgotten about that but they are only a couple around at this time.

Anyways with said I did not mean to drag up anything about this. I only wanted to point out Delta did give us a few more races to enjoy talking about or speculating about. Heck. I would love to see some further stories about them in the future. Granted they all live out in the boonies but still I do love the addition of the extra races. It gives a bit more life to the Macross Galaxy as whole in my opinion.

Not that is out of the way. I have a couple of small questions for you Seto.

First extended from the bit about the races from Delta. Are Ragna or Voldor actually part of the Brisingr Alliance? Or are they their own independent worlds. I believe it was mentioned that Voldor had their own NUNS Garrison Fleet. Therefore, making them members of the New United Nations Government in some way, but does the mean they are also part of the Alliance or are they their own member of the NUNG. Ragna doesn't look to have its own NUNS forces outside of the Xaos forces. Oh. They have a fleet in orbit when the Windermere arrive to start the Battle of Ragna but I honestly don't think they are actually NUNS but Xaos as the officer that reported to the Macross Elysion is wearing a Xaos Officer Uniform similar to that of Captain Johnson. We also just saw Xaos call in some further forces a couple episodes before hand.

Second. Do we have any data on the Island Jackpot and its class of ship? Others call it the Island Class. I believe it is smaller then even the regular New Macross Class Island that we see with the Macross 7, but is it a member of that overall reaching class of Island Ships. Basically the human colony ship that arrived at Ragna. Or is it like the Environment Ships from Frontier where it is an auxiliary colony ship to that of a main, larger, colony ship?

Anyways. Sorry about keeping on asking these questions Seto but I am quite curious about some of the background and this is the first I can get my questions answered. With other properties that I like there are already plenty of information out in the internet about it. Macross is one of the few that actually has not all that much information about it posted in an easily found place to browse.

5 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Proto devlin?

Snort. Honestly they are kind related to that of the Protoculture anyways right? 

Hmmm... you should at least watch the Movie's Final Battle. Having three Macross Elysion Class ships taking part was quite interesting in my opinion and the brief fight between the remaining two ships was even better then the "Aether Attack" from the Series in my opinion. Though it is not as good as the Macross Quarter literally surfing through the air in the last Frontier Movie. 

Speaking of which. Love it or hate it, you do have to give Macross Delta props for pretty much doubling the amount of races in the entire franchise. For the longest time we only had the dead Protoculture, modern humanity, and the Zentradi. Then we got the Zolan introduced in an OVA based after the second major series. Then years later, Delta gave us the Windermere, the Ragnans, and the Voldor. That had been one of my minor little nitpicks with Macross and Delta solved it. Somewhat.

EDIT: Opps. Forgot the Vajra from Frontier but they were truly an alien race that was little understood while the others I mentioned were the humanoid and understood far better in some sense.