Mr March

What he said

Perhaps, but I've an agenda my dear daeudi! To corrupt the hearts of men and spread my evil Macek-like influence to all four corners of Macross fandom! It will be as was prophesied...the planet's are incinerating! Like flaming globes! Like flaming globes Sigmund! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!" In all seriousness daeudi the fact is no one can know for sure. All we can do is have fun debating about it. How it looks is a minor detail and I think it's generally agreed here that the EB contains elements of both N-Ger and Q-Rau suits. As for functionality, the EB is a missile mecha and that's about all we know. The profile I've written for EB will only hint at a few possible connections, mostly that the EB could be an N-Ger and has a similar weapons load to a Q-Rau. Other than that I'll stick to describing what it does in the anime.

Here ya are Nied, a detailed layout of the WHOLE arms on each mecha. http://www.un-spacy-qmtdb.com/Macross%20DYRL/QRau-EB.gif http://www.un-spacy-qmtdb.com/Macross%20DYRL/NGer.gif

Just realized something about this discussion. I think we're having different discussions based on the same word. When you said structure, I took it to mean the point of view of the whole rather than of any single part. With this last post, it's clear you're deducing the internal layout via elimination and arguing structure based on a definition as an arrangement of parts. I'm starting to see more of your point but a few things don't make sense. The N-Ger pilot does not place his arms into the upper arms of the mecha. Not sure where that's from. The Q-Rau is not sans-head. The Q-Rau has a less pronounced head, but it sits above the torso like any powered armor suit (though the "shoulders" of the Q-Rau are sloped more). The pilot fits her head inside the Q-Rau head. (which again is above the torso). http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/art/mcr019l.jpg The head of the EB does suggest the pilot head is situated there, so I can see your point on that. The rest is really up in the air IMO. There's actually enough internal room in the EB for the pilot to put his arms forward like an N-Ger, to the sides like a Q-Rau, or even some variation on either. The upper cockpit may resemble an N-Ger, but the torso/leg configuration would suggest a Q-Rau type seating. Again, for me it could go either way and the lack of internal diagrams means it's hard to go further. Regarding the torso, be careful quoting what I say. I said the back width gets size from the missile racks not the torso. I also said the torso is wide and tapers only slightly in the middle of the mecha. Both the front and rear torso of the EB are the same width. The N-Ger (both with and WITHOUT cannon) has a defined pyramid shape from front to back. If you looked at both mecha from the top looking down, the N-Ger torso looks like a yield sign while the EB/Q-Rau torsos look like stop signs. For the arms, I'll make up 3-segment vs. 4-segment pictures for ya. ANd post them. Give me a few minutes after this post and I'll upload something. I'm not really sure we can know for certain what the EB started from, but like I said, appearance is what I'm discussing. Going into the functionality is a whole other game. If I were to discuss functionality, I'd say the similarities between the Q-Rau and the EB are even greater than just mecha appearance. The weapons look almost identical, but that's another discussion. Now having said all this, I do see some of your points and they make sense. The EB could in fact be a Q-Rau'ed next-gen N-Ger. A Supervision Army mecha is not a bad theory and I like it, but unfortunately what little official designations there are suggests the EB is just a Zentradi mecha (like it's name in the MK Design Works book as "Zentradi Battle Suit"). If you're up for it, I'd like to send you a preliminary profile for the EB and hear your comments on it. You've put more thought into this than anyone so I'd like to get your input. Naturally, I'll give you credit on the M3 for anything you contribute.

That is extraordinary photo realism. Some of the best I've ever seen. Damn, I don't even like Mazinger Z but this one photo really adds a lot to the anime

Macross animes are too few and far between to do something that doesn't feature Valkyries. But because of the fact that productions are spread so thin over the years, there is plenty of open territory for all kinds of stories in the Macross universe. Just need to make a good one

"What's the story, morning glory!"

I agree. The "franken-rau" is a good term The basis of the Enemy Battle Suit is a fine question, but doubtful we'll ever find an answer. Much like the debate over the appearance, it's likely up to an individuals perception.

I agree. I'd be inclined to beleive the Enemy Battle Suit is not 18.1 meters. More likely it's around the 16 meter mark like the N-Ger and Q-Rau. It's definitely larger than the 13 meters of the VF-11, but it's hard to obtain an accurate comparison based on the anime. Personally, I'm hestiant to go outside of the established height ranges for the N-Ger/Q-Rau and make the size of the Enemy Battlesuit smaller than both. I think, barring any official information on the subject, I'll probably go for a compromise between Q-Rau and N-Ger height. Oh I know the N-Ger has a tri-thruster setup. But the thrusters on the N-Ger are all seperate sections and much, MUCH larger. THey dominate the back, unlike the EB that's much smaller and sitting between the missile pods, like a Q-Rau. Personally, I think it's shares as many similarities as differences but a case could be made either way. The lower torso of the EB doesn't amount to much more than a small wedge and now that you mention it, that resembles the single wedge shaped flap on the Q-Rau. The head is definitely a minor detail as it pertains to the overall structure and silhouette of the mecha. Like most Zentradi mecha, the head is very small. Thouhg I agree, it's a defining N-Ger trait. But it doesn't change the structure so significantly that the mecha doesn't look more Q-Rau in design than N-Ger. The missile pods are a major detail that affects overall structure, just like the torso and legs IMO. The torso of both N-Ger's leads to a center point that is no wider than the barrel of the medium bore cannon in the center. The EB torso is far flatter, wider, and has no such central point. ALso if you look at the top view, the EB torso widens in the middle only slighty and actually tapers to the same width as the front when approaching the rear. The massive missile pods are what make up the backward width, not the torso. The internal layout is something I'm loathe to comment on and really doesn't matter much for external relevance IMO. Regarding arms, I'm speaking upper arm ONLY. If you're talking about the WHOLE arm, yes the EB is a three-segment unit...in which case the WHOLE N-Ger arm would be a four-sgement unit (arguably five for both versions). And actually the Q-Rau arms have no inward wrist curve like the N-Ger. When you look at the schematic fronts views (which I admit, most people do not have acces to yet, I promise they will appear on the M3) the Q-Rau arms are straight and the N-Ger has inward curvers. The EB features straight. The oblong bulge is also prominent on the N-Ger, but the EB, like the Q-Rau, has no such feature. It is smooth and straight. Personally, I don't think the hip vanes look much like either N-Ger or Q-Rau, but one could infer stylistic similarities with a bit of wiggling Like the Glaug inspired aft pelvis thrusters on the EB, the vanes look more like vectoring panels on a Gnerl or Power Up Glaug or even the folded wings on the YF-19/YF-21 battroid mode. Taking a step back, there are many traits of both Q-Rau and N-Ger in the Enemy Battle Suit. There are some obvious minor N-Ger traits like head, hands and thruster groups, just like some obvious minor Q-Rau traits like feet, torso guns and arm guns. For me, the overall structure is Q-Rau with major traits like the massive missile pods, flat/wide torso, and long legs, but it's clear the mecha is an almalgamation of design motifs.

Wow. An "agenda", as if this conversation has so far been about anything other than the mecha's "appearance". If these published facts are so apparent and contradict something I've written, it'd be easy to post them and enlighten would it not? Must be the smoking gun is anything but I suspect. At any rate, don't worry sketchley, I'll not make the mistake of asking for your help again. And keep up the lousy attitude, I'm sure Macross websites will flourish with such as you. You do us fans all proud.

Honestly, that's why I felt compelled to step into this thread and comment. It seems the visual "selling points" of this show are being labelled as "fantastic" when not only are they anything but, they are also the exact opposite! I can't understand how the creators of this show are not embarrassed by what was released. I'm embarrassed and I'm not even involved! I haven't even been following this thread or anything Robotech. I don't even know what this show is about. But someone on another message board linked to this thread on MW about the CGI and I just had to see how bad it was. They weren't joking.

It does? What does the placement speak...or even more so, what does the YF-21 placed BEFORE the Q-Rau speak? Ones chronological, the other reverse chronology. Not seeing anything here but speculation I'm afraid. At any rate, does any of the japanese text in Kazutaka Miyatake Design Works Macross and Orguss confirm the statistics found online? For example, online RPG stats for the "Renegade Power Armor" has... HEIGHT: 58.0 ft (18.1 m) WIDTH: 16.5 ft (5.2 m) at shoulders LENGTH: 22.7 ft (7.1 m) WEIGHT: 42 tons Can these be confirmed by any official book? The RPG stats also list the loadout and describe the guns. FOREARM PARTICLE BEAMS (2) HIGH-SPEED TRIPLE BARREL PULSE LASER AUTOCANNON LASER CANNON Are these correct?

Thanks for understanding. I'm just so amazed at how poor it is. The VideoToaster used in early 90's sci-fi television looks better than this. For a 2007 release, this show is so far behind the curve it's not even appropriate to call it last generation. Egads!

*does double take* What? The N-Ger and Q-rau are almost the exact same size. The N-Ger is 16.4 meters, the Q-Rau 16.75 meters. That's dead wrong. Actually, if the RPG statistics are to be believed, at 18.1 meters the EB is larger than both of them (not counting the Q-Rau's height boosting antennae) The Enemy Battlesuit has 11 thrusters, not 9 and the main thrusters are a central setup, not right/left fuselage like an N-Ger at all. And just like the Q-Rau, the thrusters are sandwiched between the missile pods and are much smaller than the three large boosters that dominate the back of either N-Ger. There is no doubt in my mind that the Enemy Battlesuit and Q-Rau are two-of-a-kind mecha. They share the same design silhouette and layout. They are definitely part of the same mecha group, just as the YF-21 battroid shares Q-Rau design lineage. I'm not going to be convinced the EB is anything other than a broad torso/long legged overall structure based on minor differences like head, hand or thruster groups. The Enemy Battlesuit torso is indeed different from the Q-Rau in detail, but bears no resemblance to any N-Ger at all. This is hardly a point. Again, the Enemy Battlesuit is a wide torso mecha, like the Q-Rau, like the YF-21. I'm looking twice at the forearms and not seeing anything but Q-Rau. The EB forearms are not wrist angled like both N-Ger's, nor do they feature the underarm "lump" like the N-Ger, nor are they cylindrical like an N-Ger. The EB arms are single lengths, straight like the Q-Rau, with underarm guns like the Q-Rau and rectangular oblong shaped like the Q-Rau. The one similarity I can see is the "bicep" of the EB is similar to the "bicep" of the DYRL? N-Ger. But again, the EB upper arms are two-segement joints just like the Q-Rau. Both the TV and DYRL? N-Ger's are three-segement joints. Lastly, the EB does have a "tail", TWO in fact, both of which bear a striking resemblance to either side of the Q-Rau rear exhaust. They are wedge-shaped and tapered just like a Q-Rau, but IMO, they resemble more the vectoring vanes on the Gnerl or Glaug Power-Up. I can now see the similarity between the "calf" thrusters of the TV N-Ger and the Enemy Battlesuit. Different layout, but similar design philosophy. But again, we have a situation where minor details like the head, hand and calf thrusters are supposed to be leading to an OVERALL structure similarity that is definitely not happening. Structurally, the EB is of the broad torso/long legged mecha motif Taking a step back from our interesting debate, I'm appreciating the EB as an amalgamation of several different mecha. I can see design concepts on the EB taken from the Glaug (rear "pelvis" thrusters), the TV-N-Ger ("calf" thrusters), the DYRL N-Ger (head unit), the Gnerl (vectoring vanes) and of course all the Q-Rau similarities. It steals from a lot of mecha, yet is a design all its own. My appreciation is growing Anyway, I think the thread is fine. Our responses are keeping the thread at the top until someone can hopefully confirm the size/weight/armament details available online or provide some more official stuff.

I'm a huge supporter of CGI in anime and I don't mean to enter this thread just to post negative thoughts, but after seeing those screen shots I just have to comment. I'd ask the fans for just a little understanding or to skip the rest of my post when I say that is without doubt the worst CGI I have ever seen in a modern production. It's just so shocking...so jarring, I'm having trouble believing those are actual screen shots and I'm not just being played for a fool. My apologies, but that is just so damn poor...something had to be said.

Wow, I gotta really disagree on this one. I thought I was missing something so I just spent some time examining the four mecha and I'm honestly not seeing an N-Ger resemblance over a Q-Rau similarity. Just taking in the overall silhouette, the Q-Rau and Enemy Battlesuit are both short torso/long legged mecha. In contrast, the two N-Gers are much more conventionally proportioned with shorter legs and taller torsos. Looking closer at the details, the battlesuit's torso is broad shouldered and wide and features guns on either side just like the Q-Rau. The N-Ger torso is narrow and has a prominent center point built around a single gun. The battlesuit's two arms, the forearm shape in particular, feature underarm cannons just like a Q-Rau. The legs of the battlesuit don't resemble the backward "chicken" curve of either TV or DYRL? N-Ger at all and are certainly smoother and straight like the Q-Rau. The feet are totally all Q-Rau and nothing like the TV N-Ger's flat foot nor the DYRL? N-Ger multi-segemented structure. And probably the most striking resemblance of the battlesuit to the Q-Rau are those massive missile pods on the back. I thought they were pretty much a design lineage giveaway myself. I will say one thing though, I can now see the resemblance between the head of the Enemy Battlesuit and that of the DYRL? version Nousjadeul-Ger. VERY similar configuration and they each have antennae on the left side. Speculating, I kinda like the idea of the Enemy Battlesuit being Supervision Army mecha. Though again, I can't see how the Battlesuit would be a reverse engineering of a Nousjadeul-Ger when the N-Ger has absolutely no missile weapons. If reverse engineered, the Battlesuit would clearly be a Q-Rau type design with all those missiles in those big, back-mounted launcher pods. Well that was fun. Onto the thread...

I'm sure by now everyone here knows that cool Zentradi-esque mecha from the beginning of Macross Plus. The thing that bears more than a little resemblance to a Queadluun-Rau. The "Macross Plus This Is Animation" book labels this mecha Teki no Batorusuutsu which I've just recently learned translates to Enemy Battlesuit. Very insightful Well, I'm making a profile on it for the M3 and I need info. There's nothing on the Macross Compendium and the only stats I've found online are from either the Macross Mecha Designs RPG stuff or a little blurb on the MAHQ. Are those statistics found online for height/weight/armament correct? Is there even any actual official statistics on this mecha? Any other blurbs of info that might be useful? Calling all translators here, please help if you can.

*innuendo mode on* If you have some more, feed it to me baby!

Hey, I can be strung along with a good spoon feeding as much as the next raging fanboy, but the spoon's gotta have more than a single grain of sugar

Way too little to go on for me to get all excited. Though I admit, my ears are now open and I'm very hopeful something real materializes out of all this. THanks for the post.

Love the size. The level of detail is doubly impressive given the figures small stature. This would be an excellent display piece for my computer desk or television stand. It looks small, portable and easy to clean. Very nice

I've gone with what can best be described as "Khaki" or more specifically "Ecru", which is a pale gray-yellow or a light grayish-yellowish brown. The results are very good IMO and will be included in the next update. Coming soon...

Regardless of what selection of colors I use, it's going to appear jarring anyway. We never see the SV-51 in simple "anime" two/three tone coloring. At best, we see it with the complex cell colors shown in the first few pictures of meh cds pictures posted in this thread. More than likely, the colors for the standard SV-51 will raise eyebrows once it's included on the M3. I expect a lot of fans reacting with "Where did you get the colors for the standard SV-51?"

Wow, not really sure what to call that color. Thanks David Hingtgen. I'll sample this picture and come up with something that hopefully works.

Omg, this is getting intolerable...I just watched two more episodes of Mac Zero and there are shots that show the standard SV-51 in a grey color. Purple Grey Orange/Gold This is very bad