Coota0 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 1) Is tha Cat's Eye supposed to be a Recon Platform or Command and Control like an E-2/E-3 or both? 2) Are the two people in the cockpit the only crewmebers? Are there more in the fuselage? Anybody got an opinion on if there could be? I only ask because we've seen that occasionly there are descepencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobywan Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 It's the same role as the Elintseeker. And I believe the two are the only crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander McBride Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 It's not the same role as the elint. The Cat's Eye is an AWACS bird, it controls the movements of fighters and reports enemy activity. The Elint is a recon aircraft, intended for such roles as photo recon, signals intelligence, and shorter range AWACS and limited ground WACS activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewilen Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Hmmm...then why did they send a Cat's Eye out on a recon mission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Göönk Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 because in TV series there is no "Elint"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coota0 Posted December 6, 2003 Author Share Posted December 6, 2003 So does that mean there's a larger crew of Controllers in the Fuselauge like an E-2 or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander McBride Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 So does that mean there's a larger crew of Controllers in the Fuselauge like an E-2 or what? That's the impression I get. I think there must be a couple guys in the back. As for what happens in the series, I can't comment on it, because I haven't seen enough of it. A large amount of what I know about the two is due to a thread I started asking about the same thing about a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewilen Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 because in TV series there is no "Elint"... There is the VEFR-1 "Funny Chinese", though. Maybe it wasn't ready at the time of "Blind Game", but I doubt that's the reason. Would someone who thinks the Cats Eye is an AWACS please provide a reference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbat Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Hmmm...then why did they send a Cat's Eye out on a recon mission? AWACS is your eye in the sky remember that the SDF-1's radar was damaged by the attack it needed a forward radar recon to find out where the enemy was it was never intended for the CatsEye to encounter a threat visually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 I was always under the impression that both the Cat's Eye and the Elintseeker did the same thing: monitor enemy positions, communications and patterns. I was also under the impression that they were in effect the "head of the spear", meaning all the information they gather is routed back to the SDF-1 for specialists to decipher and analyze... sort of like a spy plane in effect. The episode Bye Bye Mars seems to support that thinking in that whatever the Cat's Eye scans gets filtered to the bridge in real time. But conversely in DYRL the rear seater of the Elintseeker seems to have unique viewing of the data they intercept and calls the position of the Zentradi ship out to the bridge more like a FAC (forward air controller) radioing in positions for the following ships to take out. Seems that those two units act like several real world recon and survalence planes... I guess the VF-1 series is just so darn versitle that they can do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewilen Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Nightbat, I'm not asking why a recon mission was needed, but why a Cat's Eye was selected for the mission if it isn't a recon craft. It may be that I'm misunderstanding the difference between AWACS and recon, or it could be that the roles themselves are somewhat modified or blurred in the UN Spacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dna Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Nightbat, I'm not asking why a recon mission was needed, but why a Cat's Eye was selected for the mission if it isn't a recon craft. It may be that I'm misunderstanding the difference between AWACS and recon, or it could be that the roles themselves are somewhat modified or blurred in the UN Spacy. The Cat's Eye detection suite should be far more powerful than a Valk - that's why it was sent out. Remember, there is no Elint in the series, so there wasn't anything else that could handle the mission profile. They weren't attacking anybody, they were just out for a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbat Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Nightbat, I'm not asking why a recon mission was needed, but why a Cat's Eye was selected for the mission if it isn't a recon craft. It may be that I'm misunderstanding the difference between AWACS and recon, or it could be that the roles themselves are somewhat modified or blurred in the UN Spacy. The Cat's Eye detection suite should be far more powerful than a Valk - that's why it was sent out. Remember, there is no Elint in the series, so there wasn't anything else that could handle the mission profile. They weren't attacking anybody, they were just out for a look. The Macross lost their radar, they needed the powerful radar of the Catseye AWACS is a form of reconnisance, only compared to a normal recon it has no strike capability dumb thing they did was not give it an escort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Military functions being scripted by non-military people, things get mixed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myk Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Did the 'Seeker have weapons of any kind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellohikaru Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Did the 'Seeker have weapons of any kind? Likely not. It was based on the VT-1 Super Ostrich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Göönk Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 I don't believe there is any crew member inside the plan's body. If so, Misa would have been inside the cat's eye instead of being in the cockpit. My opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewilen Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 1. I think you're right that there's nobody in the body. I don't have a particularly good reason, other than they never mention the other people or try to rescue them in Blind Game. (Maybe they weren't put on board for that mission?) 2. Thanks for the clarifications on AWACS. 3. Again, though, why not use a "Funny Chinese" on the mission? That's the real Elint predecessor, IMO. 4. If the Cat's Eye is more like an AWACS, then maybe the reason it was sent out with Misa was to function not merely as a recon but as a way for Misa to take over some of the functions of the bridge flight operations. I don't think the dialog/action supports this, though. 5. The Cat's Eye did have escort: Vermilion Team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dna Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 3. Again, though, why not use a "Funny Chinese" on the mission? That's the real Elint predecessor, IMO. Who can say the capabilities of the funny chinese compared to the Cats Eye? From a guy who knows nothing about it, I would say that looking at just the dome size indicates that the Cats Eye has greater range. I think that the Chinese is used locally in hot spots, while the Cats Eye is used to control regions. And, we needed a way for Misa to get on the cruiser so Hikaru could kiss her the Chinese might have been harder to script into getting captured. Besides , how often did you see the chinese in the show anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Göönk Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 (edited) the dish is so close to the VF's body that I wonder if it's actually working at all... The aim of the dish is to recieve echos. If the body is between echos and the dish, it won't work. The real awacs have a dish that is not glued on the body of the plane. Also, awacs are flying high and they detect planes and enemies below. So, in space, what's "below" and "above" when you fly every where. It should use a sphere radar instead to look in all directions. i am not specialist I might be wrong but if you look at the planes noce radars, they have a 3D angle, and, it correspond to the front of the plane, not their back angle... Can some one confirm? Edited December 6, 2003 by Göönk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coota0 Posted December 7, 2003 Author Share Posted December 7, 2003 I don't believe there is any crew member inside the plan's body. If so, Misa would have been inside the cat's eye instead of being in the cockpit. My opinion. I thoaught perhaps as a senior officer she chose the the front seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellohikaru Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 The UN did have a large AWACS aircraft http://alanmccain.topcities.com/aircraft/u...aruna_ec_33.htm but i don't know too much about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander McBride Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 I don't believe there is any crew member inside the plan's body. If so, Misa would have been inside the cat's eye instead of being in the cockpit. My opinion. I thoaught perhaps as a senior officer she chose the the front seat. I would speculate that it's because the rear positions were all devoted to specific roles, and all were manned by their specific officers, leaving only the co-pilot's seat for Misa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdr Fokker Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 I was under the impression that the Cat's-Eye is/was the AWACS bird, while the VE-1 functions in the reconnassaince and EW roles... more often in the line of fire than the Cat's-Eye (hey, the VE-1 could use a GU-11 in Battroid or GERWALK, right?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
007-vf1 Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 ....where is Nanashi when we need it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myersjessee Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 considering the size of the model there would be a lot of space in the rear...this could be filled with computers or other things...but comparing it to current day AWACs and similar role craft it would seem to make sense that there would be 1-3 crew members to monitor all the scans and direct them. Remember...the pilot is flying, so unless it is all automated someone needs to decided how to focus the scans, and what type of scans are being done. Additionally, someone might be there as a communications officer. For comparison the current E-3 AWACS has a crew: "Flight crew of four plus mission crew of 13-19 specialists (mission crew size varies according to mission) " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Göönk Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 I think it's completely automated. All transmissions are being sent back to Macross. So, why did they send Misa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coota0 Posted December 7, 2003 Author Share Posted December 7, 2003 considering the size of the model there would be a lot of space in the rear...this could be filled with computers or other things...but comparing it to current day AWACs and similar role craft it would seem to make sense that there would be 1-3 crew members to monitor all the scans and direct them. Remember...the pilot is flying, so unless it is all automated someone needs to decided how to focus the scans, and what type of scans are being done. Additionally, someone might be there as a communications officer. For comparison the current E-3 AWACS has a crew: "Flight crew of four plus mission crew of 13-19 specialists (mission crew size varies according to mission) " AN E-2,which does the same thing has a crew 3-4 in the back of the plane, that doesn't count the flight crew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellohikaru Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 The Catseye may have more automation than current generation AWACS aircraft hence the smaller crew. Also it can just relay the information gathered to the controllers in Macross so no need to risk more personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coota0 Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 The Catseye may have more automation than current generation AWACS aircraft hence the smaller crew. Also it can just relay the information gathered to the controllers in Macross so no need to risk more personnel. But, what if you lose your data link to the ship, or your communictions from the ship to the fighters is being jammed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 it is entirely possible that the creators of the show simpley created the aircraft to fufill the need of the plot with out putting much serious thought into the military advantage of the vehicle itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellohikaru Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 But, what if you lose your data link to the ship, or your communictions from the ship to the fighters is being jammed? Maybe they have several frequencies to transmit with. If communication with ships to fighters can be jammed than while have the Catseye in the first place if as the comms between the AWACS and fighters can be jammed too. Of course nothing is ever easy in a war. The RL carriers normally switch off their own radar and deploy E-2C aircraft so the carrier's position stays hidden but something the size of macross can be a bit harder to hide. Then again Macross has always been less about the military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 ...but something the size of macross can be a bit harder to hide. compaired to space, nothing is very big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dna Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 it is entirely possible that the creators of the show simpley created the aircraft to fufill the need of the plot with out putting much serious thought into the military advantage of the vehicle itself. No! Say it's not true! Say it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myersjessee Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 ...but something the size of macross can be a bit harder to hide. compaired to space, nothing is very big. Thats an excellent quote!!! I was looking at the model Tanmen did, and it looks like there are doors and spaces in the back...I think the earlier E2 comparison is perfect...at least a few crew members would make sense to insure backup systems and proper direction takes place....after all, if it was all automated why even send pilots, why not just send a drone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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