William Shatner Strikes Again

[Zentrandude]

A. Since when to children go through urethras?

362429[/snapback]

When a zentran or the birdman was redesign by a protoculture scientist to urinate microns by accident.

Wonder how long till this thread is not just locked but deleted too.

[JB0]

A. Since when to children go through urethras?

362429[/snapback]

When a zentran or the birdman was redesign by a protoculture scientist to urinate microns by accident.

Ouch.

No wonder the zentradi are so against male and female fraternization...

[promethuem5]

William Shatner + Kidney Stones ---> Childbirth ---> Pain of Kidney Stones---> Hurin's worst story ever ---> Jemstone hates everyone?

I'm so confused! It dones't make any sense...

[Jemstone]

Hurin, you really need to learn self control and know when to just stop. You really do.

362349[/snapback]

Why? Because you might get even more abusive, condescending, and belligerant?

Only you could take a whimsical topic where someone mentioned that some women found passing a kidney stone worse than childbirth and turn it into yet another one of your inquisitions with the patented "everyone is an idiot here but me" sub-texts.

You wanna know why people don't bother to ask you direct questions anymore and few outside your immediate circle bother to interract with you publicly at all? Because nobody trusts you to respond civilly. You've demonstrated again and again that you're simply not capable. It's too bad too, because when your posts are stripped of all the invective, accusations, and hate, you usually have something substantive to add.

H

362359[/snapback]

HELLOOOOOOOO, you just told a story about orange ooze dripping out of your schlong that had absolutely NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the topic. I'd say that's plenty reason right there for anybody to tell you to just stop. However, thanks for continuing to prove why you get on my last nerves because you feel you think you know everything and still keep track of the "MB politics".

Edited January 21, 2006 by Jemstone

[Jemstone]

I'll take that as some sort of strange compliment.      I'm a male.  So that predisposes me to a sometimes unhealthy fixation with bathroom jokes and unnatural wonders of the reproductive and urinary systems.  Of course none of us men will never know what it's like to have another human come into being from nearly nothing and crawl forth from within us.  The prospect is entirely baffling. 

But it doesn't stop us from wondering what it's like.  And sometimes the only thing we have to go on is what women say themselves, their own comparisons with things we can relate to, and of course our wild and innane speculations.  But I figure that's a lot better than simply ceasing to care, wonder, and attempt a meager understanding simply because we can't ever fully know.

Ya know I've never been hit in the testicles but I don't have to have them to know it hurts to get hit there. I have been hit in the solar plexus during sparring and it hurt like hell. Yet you won't find me saying "Damn it hurt. Like getting hit in the balls." Sure it'd get the point across but the comparison would just be silly since I really have no idea what it's like to get hit in the balls.

Actually, just to clarify, Mike did initially ask.  Rather forwardly, too.  So much so that I was a little embarassed and pointed towards the sig.  So I was the only one here that really speculated on whether you had kids.  At any rate, he was simply opining that your insights would have real weight if you had both given birth and passed a stone, which to my total awe, you have.

He did and I was going to respond but then when the speculating and "I'll save her the time" posts came up and the nonsense continued, it's hard to really to give you guys credibility collectively. I was really hoping somebody was gonna just say "Wait till she answers". Hurin is constantly looking for reason to tell me "You're full of hate" insteda of looking for the constant repeating occurances that aggravate me. I think my aggravation is more than justified (Hurin just too eprfect an example) and anybody who at least had the guts to open their eyes and see the rampant overall behavior of MW would agree to.

Now there's insight I can use.  [spock]Facinating.[/spock]

Glad I can be of service.

JBO, you know I meant uterus when I typed urethra. Does that make you feel better? Does that somehow make all my points you dodged invalid? Yes, I know what anectdotal means and this why it was stupid you mentioned it. Casual viewing or heresay does not make a story true. I think you just go chew on that Twix I offered you but oh, right.... you were joking of course.

Edited January 21, 2006 by Jemstone

[Hurin]

Hello, you just told a story about orange ooze dripping out fo yuor schlong that had absolutely NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the topic. I'd say that's plenty reason right there for anybody to tell you to just stop. However, thanks for continuing to prove why you get on my last nerves because you feel you think you know everything and still keep track of the "MB politics".

362475[/snapback]

MB?

Politics?

Why is it "politics" to state a simple fact?: That you're well-known as someone who is incapable of civil disagreement?

Regarding my story. People enjoyed it. You didn't. Therefore, I'm very satisfied. It's the best of all possible outcomes. I'd be disappointed in myself if I posted something that you enjoyed.

This thread is largely about kidney stones. Often, while treating stubborn/problematic kidney stones, catheters, cameras, and other instruments are passed into the urethra (sometimes all the way into the bladder and then up the ureter into the kidney!). Someone else had mentioned catheterization in the context of how painful foreign bodies in the urethra can be. Therefore, my story was relevant as a possible side-effect of such procedures. Not to mention, it's an odd, releated story that I hoped would entertain some. So, you can spare us all your "just protecting the thread" rationalizations.

Meanwhile, your contribution to this thread, as usual, is to cast aspersions, call names, ignore inconvenient counter-points, and basically just, yet again, make an ass out of yourself while trying to demonstrate your moral and intellectual superiority to everyone on an internet discussion forum. That's quite a high bar you've set for yourself there! But God bless you for trying so hard, each and every day, to attain your goal! You're a star! And don't ever let anyone ever tell you different!

Jemstone, it's people like you who make it so we can't have nice things on the internet.

[JB0]

*sighs*

Shatner. Alkchemy. Charity. Now.

[Hurin]

Ya know I've never been hit in the testicles but I don't have to have them to know it hurts to get hit there. I have been hit in the solar plexus during sparring and it hurt like hell. Yet you won't find me saying "Damn it hurt. Like getting hit in the balls." Sure it'd get the point across but the comparison would just be silly since I really have no idea what it's like to get hit in the balls.

You see, I think you're just being wilfully obtuse now. Because nobody who holds their own intellect in as high regard as you obviously do could possibly write this paragraph and still retain any semblance of intellectual honesty.

That's simply not a valid analogy. . . and I think you know it.

No, you --being a woman-- can't be expected to make a meaningful comparison between the pain of testicular trauma and getting hit in the solar plexus.

But. . . a man who has been kicked in the solar plexus can meaningfully compare the pain he experienced with the pain of being kicked in the testicles. Assuming, of course, he has been kicked in the testicles as well.

Likewise, it is (at least somewhat) meaningful and interesting --especially for men who will never experience childbirth-- to hear a woman (unfavorably) compare the pain of passing a substantial kidney stone to the pain of childbirth. Though, I'd point out that many of us went out of our way to introduce caveats and mitigating circumstances/concerns into the comparison. Though not enough, apparently, for some.

H

Edited January 21, 2006 by Hurin

[Jemstone]

Hello, you just told a story about orange ooze dripping out fo yuor schlong that had absolutely NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the topic. I'd say that's plenty reason right there for anybody to tell you to just stop. However, thanks for continuing to prove why you get on my last nerves because you feel you think you know everything and still keep track of the "MB politics".

362475[/snapback]

MB?

Politics?

Why is it "politics" to state a simple fact?: That you're well-known as someone who is incapable of civil disagreement?

Regarding my story. People enjoyed it. You didn't. Therefore, I'm very satisfied. It's the best of all possible outcomes. I'd be disappointed in myself if I posted something that you enjoyed.

This thread is largely about kidney stones. Often, while treating stubborn/problematic kidney stones, catheters, cameras, and other instruments are passed into the urethra (sometimes all the way into the bladder and then up the ureter into the kidney!). Someone else had mentioned catheterization in the context of how painful foreign bodies in the urethra can be. Therefore, my story was relevant as a possible side-effect of such procedures. Not to mention, it's an odd, releated story that I hoped would entertain some. So, you can spare us all your "just protecting the thread" rationalizations.

Meanwhile, your contribution to this thread, as usual, is to cast aspersions, call names, ignore inconvenient counter-points, and basically just, yet again, make an ass out of yourself while trying to demonstrate your moral and intellectual superiority to everyone on an internet discussion forum. That's quite a high bar you've set for yourself there! But God bless you for trying so hard, each and every day, to attain your goal! You're a star! And don't ever let anyone ever tell you different!

Jemstone, it's people like you who make it so we can't have nice things on the internet.

362481[/snapback]

You're still going? I said you needed self control about what you post in refrence to yuor own admittance that maybe you should be posting that "story" you posted yet you went on a tangent not even in regards to what I meant. Why? Because you just assumed my saying you needed to stop was some kind of general jab at (you). Then you continue to say why people don't ask me things anymore like you know exactly whateveryone else posting thinks.... It's message board politics and I don't think I need to explain this.

Your story was gross and you should have kept it to yourself despite your best intentions. Nobody needed that mental picture. I'm not the only one who said you shouldn't have shared yet I am the one who got attacked by you. Still, your clarifying why you posted it here doesn't exempt you from the blatant attack you made on me for dun dun dun.... the wrong reasons. Stop looking for reasons to argue with me. Yes, I want to slit your throat and just outright despise you. Low Viz lurker and Death hammer get on some people's nerves just for posting such long winded posts. You sued to bother me for that very same and yes, very shallow reason. Then you just continued to try to hard to show your moral and intellectual superiority to everyone on the boards. Yours was nonstop. You are quite the hypocrite because you are exactly what you accuse me of. I on the other hand won't mask my dislike of you and why. It's shallow and I know that. I've never held myself in high moral standards. I never claimed to be paradigm of good behavior on the boards. Hardly the case with me. It's people like you that make people like me dislike boards like this.

I've thought of leaving but each time other posters have said "don't let someone stupid run you off". Well, there's stupidity all over the boards. MW is a clusterf*ck of a clique that really hates "everything". I have a wodnerful career that gives me a backdoor key into both the film/animation and game industry. Want to know why I don't share things with the boards? Because it will get ripped to shreds no matter what it is.

I've had the Silent Hill trailer sitting on my HD for 2 weeks (a whole week before it was released) and I didn't put it up for a reason. Not because I don't believe people don't deserve to know things (that's never fair) but because I know people will scoff at everythign and say "it sucks". Makes it very hard to justify contributing these thinsg to MW. That's just one example of things I could share. Last Oct I got to have lunch with Don Bluth and group of professional animators. Would be a great topic to get into but why bother when someone like a "DOWN WITH EVEYRTHING" Hurin will just piss on it? I think not.

In the meantime you can keep dreaming up reasons why you think I'm so belligerant and condescending. You seem to know everything as you try so hard to demonstrate with each passing post.

Edited January 21, 2006 by Jemstone

[Hurin]

You're still going? I said you needed self control about what you post in refrence to yuor own admittance that maybe you should be posting that "story" you posted yet you went on a tangent not even in regards to what I meant. Why? Becquse you just assumed my saying you needed to stop was some kind of general jab at me. Then you continue to say why people don't ask me things anymore like you know exactly whateveryone else posting thinks.... It's message board politics and I don't think I need to explain this.

Your story was gross and you should have kept it to yourself despite your best intentions. Nobody needed that mental picture. I'm not the only one who said you shouldn't have shared yet I am the one who got attacked by you. Still, your clarifying why you posted it here doesn't exempt you from the blatant attack you made on me for dun dun dun.... the wrong reasons.

Try as I might, I can barely make sense of any of that. I didn't need to defend my reasons for telling the story. I merely wanted to point out to you that it wasn't entirely out of the blue, despite your all-caps claim to the contrary. I didn't take anyone else's response seriously and assumed they found it funny, while simultaneously disgusting.

So. . . I attacked you? For the wrong reasons? No, I merely pointed out that you're here once again, attacking, calling names, condescending to people, and assaulting people rather than arguments/statements. And I pointed that out not in reference to what you had directed at me, but what you had directed at everyone else. So, really, as usual, you're the one basing your attacks on wrong assumptions here.

Jemstone, you claiming the mantle of victim in this thread as someone who has been "attacked" is pricless. I must say though, my favorite part is when you taunted people ("Just a glutton for punishment aren't you") for having the temerity to engage your incredible intellect in "debate."

Anyways, regarding why people tend to avoid your volatile stuff on these forums nowadays, I only know what I'm told on IM and what I've read elsewhere.

The rest just looks like you ranting about how you love your job. Good for you! I'm proud of you! Marvelous! I'm curious though, is this the part where you envision everyone casting their eyes to the floor in shame and saying ot themselves: "Darn. If only I were a better person and had been nicer to Macross 7, Stealth, and George Lucas, Jemstone might have shared a horror movie trailer with us a whole week early!" I just want to know if I should do that now or wait a bit. I just want to make sure it synchs up with the fantasies floating around in that head of yours.

Well, I guess all I can say is that I'm just incredibly grateful that someone always manages to convince you to come back to MW when you decide to leave. I can't imagine how much worse off we'd all be without an angry person seeing sexism everywhere and calling everyone she disagrees with "idiots" and "retards!" So, thank your "friend(s)", for me. They're doing the Lord's work, convincing you not to give up on us and returning the glory that is you to this forum. . . time and time again!

*Smooch*

H

P.S. You missed one of my responses above. I believe it was something about you being intellectually dishonest and making a terrible analogy that demonstrates that you either fundamentally misunderstand what people are saying in this thread, or you're merely being wilfully obtuse.

Edited January 21, 2006 by Hurin

[Sundown]

He did and I was going to respond but then when the speculating and "I'll save her the time" posts came up and the nonsense continued, it's hard to really to give you guys credibility collectively.

Well, again. The "I'll save her the effort" post was also entirely and only mine, posted fretfully because "Have YOU given childbirth?" isn't something usually asked of a lady, or at least not in that manner... My bad if you would have preferred to answer yourself.

Okay, and there was the one other post in response, more about the lurid nature of the sig than the actual bearing of offspring... but any lack of credibility there might be due to deducing something from your sig has to pretty much fall on me alone.

I mean as much as I'd like to be one of the folks who's personal antics singlehandedly determine MW's collective level of awesomeness or retardedness, I think that job's already taken.

[Jemstone]

He did and I was going to respond but then when the speculating and "I'll save her the time" posts came up and the nonsense continued, it's hard to really to give you guys credibility collectively.

Well, again. The "I'll save her the effort" post was also entirely and only mine, posted fretfully because "Have YOU given childbirth?" isn't something usually asked of a lady, or at least not in that manner... My bad if you would have preferred to answer yourself.

Hey, when did I ever claim to be a "lady"? I'd have prefered to answer it myself.

Okay, and there was the one other post in response, more about the lurid nature of the sig than the actual bearing of offspring... but any lack of credibility there might be due to deducing something from your sig has to pretty much fall on me alone.

Not so much you did it by yourself. While you started it, it's not your fault it continued. You aren't responsible for what others say. Heck, I don't even think ill of you because you did at least point fault towards yourself. That's very admirable. My problem is mostly with people who are acting like there is nothign that they said that was stupid or just offensive (because when they say such things it's always meant in fun).

I mean as much as I'd like to be one of the folks who's personal antics singlehandedly determine MW's collective level of awesomeness or retardedness, I think that job's already taken.

If you want......

Hurin, once again ignores my point and makes up his own reasons for what I replied. BTW isn't it ironic that back when I first told you some people IMed me and told me that you were annoying, you didn't believe me, claimed I was making up people to attack you and now you are doing the same? Don't you just love irony? I know what people think of me and I make no apologies as I think they're pretty low being unable to say it to my face. I could careless what people like that think.

I don't even actually love my job. It's just very useful but with that attitude why should I "share" things otherwise quite valuable to a message boards based on animationa nd science fiction. Bravo, Hurin. You really hurt me.

Edited January 21, 2006 by Jemstone

[Sundown]

*sighs*

Shatner. Alkchemy. Charity. Now.

362483[/snapback]

I am so touched that I finally started a thread worth protecting.

Ya know I've never been hit in the testicles but I don't have to have them to know it hurts to get hit there. I have been hit in the solar plexus during sparring and it hurt like hell. Yet you won't find me saying "Damn it hurt. Like getting hit in the balls." Sure it'd get the point across but the comparison would just be silly since I really have no idea what it's like to get hit in the balls.

In the interest of fair trade, I can tell you that getting hit in the nuts is nothing like getting hit in the solar plexus, or anywhere else in a man's body. It's an entirely unique sensation, unbearable not only for its pain but for the nature of that pain. The sensation of having a gland crushed, the pain that swells forth to fill the entire lower abdomen, and the distinct and uncomfortable waves of pressure that mount as you seriously wonder whether the gland itself might burst... is one that leaves you quivering on the floor, feeling extremely vulnerable and wanting to die.

I think the pain isn't as bad as the uncomfortable nature of the sensation. It just feels wrong, a very foreign and alien sort of wrong, as your body and mind both scream "this is not how it's supposed to be!"

"DOWN WITH EVEYRTHING" Hurin will just piss on it?

Yes he will. With orange foam.

[myk]

I've felt that pain and it's a pain that men shouldn't have to worry about. Now, I wear a groin cup all of the time!...

[Jemstone]

In the interest of fair trade, I can tell you that getting hit in the nuts is nothing like getting hit in the solar plexus, or anywhere else in a man's body.  It's an entirely unique sensation, unbearable not only for its pain but for the nature of that pain.  The sensation of having a gland crushed, the pain that swells forth to fill the entire lower abdomen, and the distinct and uncomfortable waves of pressure that mount as you seriously wonder whether the gland itself might burst... is one that leaves you quivering on the floor, feeling extremely vulnerable and wanting to die.

I've actually seen this with my own eyes and it was my fault too. It's a guilt and shame I'll never get over. Back in my sophomore year in HS during a gym class we were playing volley ball. I went to spike the ball but hit it sideways and hard. It hit hhis kid named Matt Westhaver in the balls. I'd never seen so much suffering like that in my life. He was slumped on the floor for a good 10 minutes before thye could even attempt to take him to the nurses office. It was hard for me to watch and my guilt drove me to tears. It's been 13 years and I still feel like I owe him something for the pain I caused. A pain I knew I'd never fully comphehend and don't want to.

[Hurin]

BTW isn't it ironic that back when I first told you some people IMed me and told me that you were annoying, you didn't believe me, claimed I wa smaking up people to attack you and now you are doing the same?

More dishonesty from you. . . and more dodging.

So, I'll close with this. Once again (as in a deleted thread from a couple months ago), you are being blatantly dishonest in characterizing the invective-filled PMs you've been known to send me. The first time you sent me a slew of "everybody hates you" PMs, I did not tell you that I didn't believe you. I told you that I didn't (and still don't) care. Oddly, every time I've asked you for permission to post them (in that deleted thread) you either modified, retracted, or evaded. But you were certain never to give me permission to post what you said. Odd, that. Though, I suppose they don't paint a very flattering protrait of you.

Quite a while later, the 2nd time you decided to grace me with unsolicited "everyone hates you" PMs, you decided to name one person in particular. Which was ironic, considering I was IMing and PMing that person regularly at the time. Actually, I still am. That person then contacted you and you were forced to retract the assertion that he "hated" me and "never wanted me to IM him again."

And, to be honest, I don't see the irony. I'm not saying that people hate you. And I would never dream of initiating PMs to you merely to tell you so. I'm merely telling you (because you asked) why people avoid directly addressing you or engaging you in any meaningful debate. And, indeed, that is even what I said the last time that you decided to grace me with the knowledge that "everyone hates me" via PM.

But let's be clear here. You are actually the type of person who goes out of their way to send barrages of angry PMs to people for somehow crossing you (and indeed, the first time you did so it was almost entirely in your imagination. . . though it took about 10 PMs and infinite patience to finally calm you down and convince you of this). You are the type of person who initiates a flurry of PMs simply to tell someone else on an internet forum that "everyone hates you." While doing so, you go out of your way to point out just how "connected" you are behind all the scenes and name everyone with whom you chit-chat about "board politics" by their real names. It's laughably pathetic. And your need to send out such PMs says volumes about you.

I'm done with this. You're clearly evasive, dishonest, and a thoroughly unpleasant person with which to engage in a discussion (unless, of course, you're in agreement, then you're a real whoot!). So, I find myself asking myself, why bother? My points have been made. And while I've been amused up until this point, I'm getting bored of you since you're now just descending into (once again) dodging and dishonesty.

Take Care Sweetie!

H

Edited January 21, 2006 by Hurin

[myk]

H, you couldn't have said it any better. LOL, how'd you find that old post, anyway?

You know, it's rare when you meet someone with a keen mind that you can debate with. When that keen mind turns venomous and vindictive though, it's just not worth it, so.....

OOoohhhh...The beauty of the "ignore" function...

Edited January 21, 2006 by myk

[Sundown]

Not so much you did it by yourself. While you started it, it's not your fault it continued.

Heck, I don't even think ill of you because you did at least point fault towards yourself. That's very admirable.

Well, like I said... the speculation pretty much started and ended with me. Now the continuing discussion, which I still admittedly find intriguing, I don't take any blame for.

Just so you don't get the wrong idea and start thinking good things about me...

I know some folks might take offense with general stupidity-- that's admittedly kind of hard for me to relate to, as I don't happen to be one of those who feels much rage unless things are said in an undebatably demeaning manner. So I don't personally feel that there's been a lot of real wrong done here, that there's real fault to dole out, or that there's much actual hurt to account for... (besides the dubious wisdom of me answering for you, that was in hindsight, a little dumb)-- but if there's offense felt regarding specific things, then I'd rather not someone else take the blame for whatever I said, even if I don't at first think the issue a "big deal".

Most of the stuff is still pretty funny and amusing to us guys (and I wager some women), many of whom might have a crass streak. Sure, we can stand to be more tasteful, tactful, and judicial, but most of the stuff here isn't said in an intentionally demeaning or degrading manner. Musings about the intricacies of reproductive systems and Hurin's urinary issues "in fun" isn't quite at the same level as disparaging and degrading women "in fun". And as far as I can see, we're not really out to defend our right to offend for humor's sake alone. I hope you can sort of understand that... but I know it might not necessarily make the antics here any less irksome.

[Hurin]

H, you couldn't have said it any better.  LOL, how'd you find that old post, anyway?

362518[/snapback]

bsu bumped the thread today. Just happened across it. Your post is right above his. Quite timely!

[Zentrandude]

K im starting to think even this thread is too powerful for the mods to locked this. Its like antibotic resistant bactieria but instead is mod resistant. Or hurin story put them in a coma with the orange foam.

Edited January 21, 2006 by Zentrandude

[JB0]

Shatner's stones have an unholy power. They can build houses, heal the sick, raise the dead... even protect threads.

[Jemstone]

More dishonesty from you. . . and more dodging.

So, I'll close with this.  Once again (as in a deleted thread from a couple months ago), you are being blatantly dishonest in characterizing the invective-filled PMs you've been known to send me.  The first time you sent me a slew of "everybody hates you" PMs, I did not tell you that I didn't believe you.  I told you that I didn't (and still don't) care.  Oddly, every time I've asked you for permission to post them (in that deleted thread) you either modified, retracted, or evaded.  But you were certain never to give me permission to post what you said.  Odd, that.  Though, I suppose they don't paint a very flattering protrait of you.

Quite a while later, the 2nd time you decided to grace me with unsolicited "everyone hates you" PMs, you decided to name one person in particular.  Which was ironic, considering I was IMing and PMing that person regularly at the time.  Actually, I still am.  That person then contacted you and you were forced to retract the assertion that he "hated" me and "never wanted me to IM him again.".....

I'm done with this.  You're clearly evasive, dishonest, and a thoroughly unpleasant person with which to engage in a discussion (unless, of course, you're in agreement, then you're a real whoot!).  So, I find myself asking myself, why bother?  My points have been made.  And while I've been amused up until this point, I'm getting bored of you since you're now just descending into (once again) dodging and dishonesty.

Take Care Sweetie!

H

Oh, please, you're never done. I didn't evade, dodge or modify anything in any way. I even told you that one of those persons met you in person and then changed their mind about you. Then this person told me I should keep an open mind regarding you and that this person changed his mind. Yes, this person knows of all of this bad blood between you and I. 2 people actually. I didn't send a barrage of IMs to go after you. Our discussion was taken to PM. Stop trying to paint an unflattering picture of me to use your own terms. It wans't a barrage of attacks as we were replying back and forth and never saw eye to eye (that tends to result is several PMs).

For that matter I've never thought much of myk and have told him so. It's not like it's surpising he's one of your "IM buddies". If you want I can name the person I ahve openly disagreed with on MW and could careless about. It makes no different than me. I didn't name people that badmouthed you when I was telling you people hated you because I always felt they should have told you so upfront. Of course you met one and another now thinks highly of you. So people change their minds, big deal. It doesn't erase how they initially felt about you. If you can't see the irony and the parallel then you need to take off your rose coloured glasses. I still urge these people to come forward but I could see why they wouldn't want to for the whole board to see.

Now if you please, once again show me where I was evasive? I did miss a couple posts of yours in this thread. You can start there if you like (or will you actually really be done as a lame route of taking the "high road" to claim innocense in all fo this.

As for that SIlent Hill thread, I never even saw that last post of myk's (I got busy that week) but actually I did agree with most of what he posted in that post. Underworld 2 just came out and is a perfect exmaple of his post but Silent Hill has nothing to do with the "girl power" genre he was bashing and rightfully so.

[Hurin]

Oh, please, you're never done.

You're right. Instead, I'll be brief.

For that matter I've never thought much of myk and have told him so. It's not like it's surpising he's one of your "IM buddies".

What kind of craptacular leap of logic is this!?! I've never IMed (or PMed) Myk in my life. I'm speechless. Tell me, do you believe that everyone that you do not like are in league against you?

Now if you please, once again show me where I was evasive?

For starters: here. And I even called your attention to it in a later post (in the P.S. here). Yet, you haven't seen fit to address it even while you accuse others of evading your own points.

The sad little secret behind all your posts in this thread is that you really haven't adequately explained why it is "stupid" for us to find it interesting how some women who have endured both childbirth and substantial kidney stones compare the relative pain of each. In your haste to paint everyone taking part in the discussion as "stupid" or "retards" (who are merely manifestations of MW's overall problem of know-it-all fanboys), you never actually (successfully) told us why it actually was so stupid (or retarded)!

Ironically, those of us actually posting about it in a more positive sense did more to qualify it, express caveats, and otherwise undermine the comparison than you have. . . even as you called us all idiots and retards.

Granted, you attempted to do so. But, the analogy you tried to use was quite clearly invalid (as demonstrated in the links above) and left me wondering if you really even understood what my initial post was trying to say in the first place. Indeed, your analogy leaves me with only two real possible conclusions: You haven't actually taken the time to read carefully what people have said (ignorance). Or, you are being wilfully obtuse in order to preserve some (false) semblance of a point of view (intellectual dishonesty). All this, of course, after you had taunted people to take their chances in challenging your superior intellect.

For convenience, here's your analogy and how I addressed it:

Ya know I've never been hit in the testicles but I don't have to have them to know it hurts to get hit there. I have been hit in the solar plexus during sparring and it hurt like hell. Yet you won't find me saying "Damn it hurt. Like getting hit in the balls." Sure it'd get the point across but the comparison would just be silly since I really have no idea what it's like to get hit in the balls.

You see, I think you're just being wilfully obtuse now. Because nobody who holds their own intellect in as high regard as you obviously do could possibly write this paragraph and still retain any semblance of intellectual honesty.

That's simply not a valid analogy. . . and I think you know it.

No, you --being a woman-- can't be expected to make a meaningful comparison between the pain of testicular trauma and getting hit in the solar plexus.

But. . . a man who has been kicked in the solar plexus can meaningfully compare the pain he experienced with the pain of being kicked in the testicles. Assuming, of course, he has been kicked in the testicles as well.

Likewise, it is (at least somewhat) meaningful and interesting --especially for men who will never experience childbirth-- to hear a woman (unfavorably) compare the pain of passing a substantial kidney stone to the pain of childbirth. Though, I'd point out that many of us went out of our way to introduce caveats and mitigating circumstances/concerns into the comparison. Though not enough, apparently, for some.

H

As for your characterization of our PMs: Again, we can allay all doubt as to how you came off in those PMs by just posting them to my website (rather than further sullying this thread). Oddly, however, you've always (repeatedly) avoided giving me permission to do so. Though, further mischaracterizations of their content will, to my mind, waive your right to privacy.

Best,

H

[Agent ONE]

I would like to put Hurin in a burlap bag, then put Jem in that same bag, hang the bag from a tree, then beat the bag with a stick... Then I would like some toothless hooker to tug on my cock while Graham sings the theme to Macross.

[myk]

For that matter I've never thought much of myk and have told him so.

Ah, you may not think MUCH of me, but like all of the other girls you DO think of me-and that's what's important! Michael (Myk) Ranili Sanchez-a man so dynamic and charismatic that he is either loved, or hated...

'Jem, I will always respect your intelligence and appreciate your knowledge, just not your venom-there's no need for it...

What kind of craptacular leap of logic is this!?!  I've never IMed (or PMed) Myk in my life.  I'm speechless.  Tell me, do you believe that everyone that you do not like are in league against you?

Gonna' have to back up 'H on this one-we've never communicated with each other asides from this thread. There are about 5 people that I've contacted through "back channels" the 4 years or so that I've been with this great 'forum, and they were strictly for business purposes, not petty school girl bickering-Thanks for the copy of Battle Star Galactica Gaijin, you're a prince...

I would like to put Hurin in a burlap bag, then put Jem in that same bag, hang the bag from a tree, then beat the bag with a stick... Then I would like some toothless hooker to tug on my cock while Graham sings the theme to Macross.

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Edited January 21, 2006 by myk

[Zentrandude]

I would like to put Hurin in a burlap bag, then put Jem in that same bag, hang the bag from a tree, then beat the bag with a stick... Then I would like some toothless hooker to tug on my cock while Graham sings the theme to Macross.

362565[/snapback]

Its like you watch my dreams but you missed the part shawn urinates on illegal aliens in walmart and 20 hobos dance around to the theme of macross.

[Jemstone]

Hurin, you call that brief? It's late but I'm replying anyways so bare with me while my brain's still somewhat working.

You see, I think you're just being wilfully obtuse now.  Because nobody who holds their own intellect in as high regard as you obviously do could possibly write this paragraph and still retain any semblance of intellectual honesty.

That's simply not a valid analogy. . . and I think you know it.

No, you --being a woman-- can't be expected to make a meaningful comparison between the pain of testicular trauma and getting hit in the solar plexus.

It is valid and that's what I was saying. I can't make such a comparison because I am woman. Which is why you can't make the comparison and say "but that's what women have said" since you are a man. First off it's hearsay and not exactly "evidence" and what wasn't taken into account was the variable size of the kidney stone. I have passed a kidney stone but it wasn't much due to the size of it. Short summary instead of long biology essay:Female human body designed to give birth so it's more tolerable pain wise (we still exist so there for....). Urinary system not designed to pass kidney stones. So naturally one would immediately choose passing a kidney stone as what would be the most painful. However, that's false and I'm proof of it. Of course the worst part of the whole "saga" was JBO introducing the idea of possible orgasms during child birth as some sort of reason why essentially child birth would lessen the pain of it. That's completely retarded/stupid and too complicated to go into (which after all these pages I don't think needs explaining).

But. . . a man who has been kicked in the solar plexus can meaningfully compare the pain he experienced with the pain of being kicked in the testicles.  Assuming, of course, he has been kicked in the testicles as well.

Yes! I didn't experience something like that and never could. Therefor if I ever said "Getting hit in the solar plexus is like getting hit in the balls" would be retarded on my part.

Likewise, it is (at least somewhat) meaningful and interesting --especially for men who will never experience childbirth-- to hear a woman (unfavorably) compare the pain of passing a substantial kidney stone to the pain of childbirth.  Though, I'd point out that many of us went out of our way to introduce caveats and mitigating circumstances/concerns into the comparison.  Though not enough, apparently, for some. 

I was following you untill you rolled your eyes. There was hardly anything else introduced by anyone of you guys next to the fact you "some women have said". I already explained above why the comparisoin to child birth just does not work. Apples and oranges. Maybe a better comparison would have been the rupture of one's appendix? I thought that's what my problem was back then only to have the doctor correct me and tell me if it had been my appendix I'd be in far more pain.

As for your characterization of our PMs: Again, we can allay all doubt as to how you came off in those PMs by just posting them to my website (rather than further sullying this thread). Oddly, however, you've always (repeatedly) avoided giving me permission to do so. Though, further mischaracterizations of their content will, to my mind, waive your right to privacy.

You never told me you had a website to which you might post them to. You just threatened to put them up (yeah threatened) and then I called you on it which brought about our last go round.

[Jemstone]

Ah, you may not think MUCH of me, but like all of the other girls you DO think of me-and that's what's important!  Michael (Myk) Ranili Sanchez-a man so dynamic and charismatic that he is either loved, or hated...

'Jem, I will always respect your intelligence and appreciate your knowledge, just not your venom-there's no need for it...

I don't hate you. I just don't think much of you. You're not charismatic by deafult of an avatar you had. Charismatic men don't need to things like "Mai Shiranui" as their avatars. Take spoints away right there. That indicates a man that tries too hard and the charismatic man need not try but just stand there and the women will flock to him......

[Hurin]

Jem, I appreciate the more cordial tone of (most of) your last post. I'll endeavor to likewise improve mine:

I can't make such a comparison because I am woman. Which is why you can't make the comparison and say "but that's what women have said" since you are a man.

Logically, this does not flow. Nothing about you conceding that you can't possibly know what being kicked in the testicles feels like suddenly gives you the power to essentially decree by fiat that the opinions of some women who have experienced both kidney stones and childbirth cannot be relayed by me (because I'm a man!). You can say that it is hearsay, undocumented, or attack their opinions on the merits (as you do below), but nothing about your analogy, or my being a man destroys the statements that these women (allegedly) made on the face of them. And really, I take issue with the characterization that I came into this wishing to prove that kidney stones are more painful than chilbirth in all cases and then used these women's opinions to merely back that up after the fact. Indeed, the reverse is ture. I merely posted some anecdotal evidence that some women had found kindey stones more painful than childbrith (and then even posted some reasons why I doubt it). I had no axe to grind or agenda to push. Indeed, the real point was that kidney stones can be excruciating. My goal was not to supplant noble motherly suffering to bring life into this world with a guy drinking a lot of water and peeing through a strainer.

First off it's hearsay and not exactly "evidence"

Agreed. But I even recently heard this from my doctor who warned me not to take calcium pills while my broken wrist healed lest I get stones. When I asked how bad they can be, he told me the "some women. . ." anecdote by way of emphasis. But it wasn't the first time I'd heard it.

Regardless, though. Does everyone involved in the discussion deserve to be called idiots and retards for mulling over something like this? Even if we haven't gotten our information from the Mayo clinic?

and what wasn't taken into account was the variable size of the kidney stone.

Well, of course not. We assume that the kidney stone is big enough to cause distress. And the bigger it is, the more it will probably hurt. Nobody is arguing that all kidney stones hurt more than childbirth. Indeed, most kidney stones pass without us even knowing it. I believe that the requisite kidney stone being substantial in these comparisons was implied.

I have passed a kidney stone but it wasn't much due to the size of it. Short summary instead of long biology essay:Female human body designed to give birth so it's more tolerable pain wise (we still exist so there for....). Urinary system not designed to pass kidney stones.  So naturally one would immediately choose passing a kidney stone as what would be the most painful. However, that's false and I'm proof of it.

I think we just disagree here. I don't think many people think that female anatomy and pre-birth changes in a woman's anatomy somehow make giving birth a relative piece of cake when compared to passing a kidney stone. So, I don't think most people say: "I'll take the child birth, those stones sound too painful." I know that I'd take a kidney stone over the tearing (or pre-slicing), 'roids, and overall contraction pains (among other things) inherent to childbirth any day of the week no matter how much people have said kidney stones can hurt.

Of course the worst part of the whole "saga" was JBO introducing the idea of possible orgasms during child birth as some sort of reason why essentially child birth would lessen the pain of it. That's completely retarded/stupid and too complicated to go into (which after all these pages I don't think needs explaining).

Agreed. But you very clearly went out of your way to characterize everyone else and the comparison itself as stupid as well. But since I was the one making the comparison and you evidentally loathe me so, I guess that's acceptable. I'd just like more backup for why I'm stupid in the future.

I was following you untill you rolled your eyes. There was hardly anything else introduced by anyone of you guys next to the fact you "some women have said". I already explained above why the comparisoin to child birth just does not work. Apples and oranges.  Maybe a better comparison would have been the rupture of one's appendix?

Actually, there was quite a bit introduced by me and others to pooh-pooh the idea that it is a truly apples-to-apples comparison (differences in length of urethra, lack of epidurals for kidney stones, possible "nerve wiring" differences between men and women in that region, etc.). But that's not to say that you can simply dismiss the comparison out-of-hand (especially in the manner in which you did above which I have already addressed). But what truly vexes me is how you would dismiss hearsay stories about kidney stones, but would apparently whole-heartedly embrace hearsay stories about burst appendices.

I thought that's {burst appendix} what my problem was back then only to have the doctor correct me and tell me if it had been my appendix I'd be in far more pain {than kidney stone}.

Yes, but as you have said (twice), your stone was relatively small. So, it's not terribly relevant to describing how a substantial stone would feel compared to childbirth. And again, I believe the substantial nature of the hypothetical stone was implied, otherwise, what's the point?

You never told me you had a website to which you might post them to. You just threatened to put them up (yeah threatened) and then I called you on it which brought about our last go round.

I believe that (in that deleted thread. . . which I think I still have a local copy of, BTW), I did repeatedly state that I would host it on my website and remove the names of third parties to "protect the innocent." You never "called me on it" but rather ignored my repeated requests for your permission to post them. Something you continue to do. Any "threat" you perceived was based in my frustration at you repeatedly and insistantly mischaracterizing what had taken place in thost PMs.

Best Regards,

H

[Skull Leader]

... I can't believe I just read 3 pages of this pap. I don't come to Macrossworld to wax physiological stuff, just watch the f#$*ing anime...

I hope you two can kiss and make up sometime soon, so we can get back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[Jemstone]

Logically, this does not flow.  Nothing about you conceding that you can't possibly know what being kicked in the testicles feels like suddenly gives you the power to essentially decree by fiat that the opinions of some women who have experienced both kidney stones and childbirth cannot be relayed by me (because I'm a man!).  You can say that it is hearsay, undocumented, or attack their opinions on the merits (as you do below), but nothing about your analogy, or my being a man destroys the statements that these women (allegedly) made on the face of them.  And really, I take issue with the characterization that I came into this wishing to prove that kidney stones are more painful than chilbirth in all cases and then used these women's opinions to merely back that up after the fact.  Indeed, the reverse is ture.  I merely posted some anecdotal evidence that some women had found kindey stones more painful than childbrith (and then even posted some reasons why I doubt it).  I had no axe to grind or agenda to push.  Indeed, the real point was that kidney stones can be excruciating.  My goal was not to supplant noble motherly suffering to bring life into this world with a guy drinking a lot of water and peeing through a strainer.

I didn't say you came into this wishing it was true or trying to force it as truth. While I completely disagreed with you I guess I can't really hold you as fault having read that you aren't the only one to make such a comparison. What the women told you wouldn't hold water unless they also told you the size of the stone.

Agreed.  But I even recently heard this from my doctor who warned me not to take calcium pills while my broken wrist healed lest I get stones.  When I asked how bad they can be, he told me the "some women. . ." anecdote by way of emphasis.  But it wasn't the first time I'd heard it.

I'm sure. I guess I can't fault you on that either only because this article posted back in October about Shatner's kidney stone made the same comparison (I stills ay it's a stupid comparison tho). Only Shatner and his wife did treat the removal of the stone as a pregnancy and claimed he gave birth to a girl.... http://www.trekweb.com/articles/2005/10/27...f36d1b8ac.shtml

Regardless, though.  Does everyone involved in the discussion deserve to be called idiots and retards for mulling over something like this?  Even if we haven't gotten our information from the Mayo clinic?

No..... I'lla dmit not everyone deserved my blanket insult. I guess it boils down to just you, JBO and Sundown. Fine, I retract my statements saying everyone is retarded. However, others agreed with what you initially said so I included them. Are you going to frame this post of mine and hang it on your wall?

Well, of course not.  We assume that the kidney stone is big enough to cause distress.  And the bigger it is, the more it will probably hurt.  Nobody is arguing that all kidney stones hurt more than childbirth.  Indeed, most kidney stones pass without us even knowing it.  I believe that the requisite kidney stone being substantial in these comparisons was implied.

I think we just disagree here.  I don't think many people think that female anatomy and pre-birth changes in a woman's anatomy somehow make giving birth a relative piece of cake when compared to passing a kidney stone.  So, I don't think most people say:  "I'll take the child birth, those stones sound too painful."  I know that I'd take a kidney stone over the tearing (or pre-slicing), 'roids, and overall contraction pains (among other things) inherent to childbirth any day of the week no matter how much people have said kidney stones can hurt.

Perhaps the argument should be rephrased to "Any kidney stone the size of a marble or bigger maybe as painful as childbirth". The general original statement was just false.

Agreed.  But you very clearly went out of your way to characterize everyone else and the comparison itself as stupid as well.  But since I was the one making the comparison and you evidentally loathe me so, I guess that's acceptable.  I'd just like more backup for why I'm stupid in the future.

Eh... I thought it was one of those things that goes with out saying on your behalf, ya know?

Actually, there was quite a bit introduced by me and others to pooh-pooh the idea that it is a truly apples-to-apples comparison (differences in length of urethra, lack of epidurals for kidney stones, possible "nerve wiring" differences between men and women in that region, etc.).  But that's not to say that you can simply dismiss the comparison out-of-hand (especially in the manner in which you did above which I have already addressed).  But what truly vexes me is how you would dismiss hearsay stories about kidney stones, but would apparently whole-heartedly embrace hearsay stories about burst appendices. 

LOL Hearsay with a medical license is entirely different.

Yes, but as you have said (twice), your stone was relatively small.  So, it's not terribly relevant to describing how a substantial stone would feel compared to childbirth.  And again, I believe the substantial nature of the hypothetical stone was implied, otherwise, what's the point?

The simple point is one can't make such a broad statement that "passing a kidney stone is as painful as childbirth". It's not true because of the blanket nature of that statement.

I believe that (in that deleted thread. . . which I think I still have a local copy of, BTW), I did repeatedly state that I would host it on my website and remove the names of third parties to "protect the innocent."  You never "called me on it" but rather ignored my repeated requests for your permission to post them.  Something you continue to do.  Any "threat" you perceived was based in my frustration at you repeatedly and insistantly mischaracterizing what had taken place in thost PMs.

362588[/snapback]

I mos likely missed that because I skimmed over your essay long posts and flat out ignored the last one. That whole loose end issue will have to be rectified some other time.

Skullleader, we are on topic because William Shatner himself is retarded. See?

No, idea if that's the original stone or not. One I saw on Access Hollywood looked even larger.

[Agent ONE]

too much reading... Someone give me the executive summary. What exactly are Jem and Hurin fighting about?

[Hurin]

too much reading... Someone give me the executive summary.  What exactly are Jem and Hurin fighting about?

362671[/snapback]

Nothing. . . now. While we could still nit-pick a thing or two and keep this going indefinitely, I think this is the closest Jemstone and I will ever come to seeing eye to eye. Thanks for the detailed reply, Jem.

Best Regards,

H

[mikeszekely]

So naturally one would immediately choose passing a kidney stone as what would be the most painful. However, that's false and I'm proof of it.

The general original statement was just false.

Except that wasn't the original statement. The original statement was that some women have claimed that passing a stone is worse than childbirth. If some women have claimed that, then it's true. JB0's bit about one being natural and one being not was speculation, as was Hurin's conjecture that there are more techniques to deal with the pain of childbirth than kidney stones.

Telling us that you found a kidney stone to hurt less is useful first-hand testimony, but it doesn't disprove the statement that some women have found stones to be more painful. The size of the stone, the ease of birth, the physiological nature of the mother and of the infant are all variables that make the matter entirely subjective.

Moreover, simply because childbirth is a pain that males can never know, or the fact that it's dissimilar to passing a stone, doesn't diminish curiousity about the subject or a need to try to put it in a frame of reference to something more familiar.

[Zentrandude]

No, idea if that's the original stone or not. One I saw on Access Hollywood looked even larger.

362643[/snapback]

That has to be not the real one. your kidney would have to be like encrusted to be that large and litteraly piss out a kidney.

Looks more like a meteroite instead and trying to pass it as a kidney stone.