Oihan Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 [my2cents] I think the YF-21 is vastly superior to the YF-19. I'd take one of those over the 19 anyday, mainly cause of the BDI system. But as to who's the better pilot, I'd assume Isamu judging by the animation in both OVA and movie. [/my2cents] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emajnthis Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Well technically the YF-19 didn't have his gunpod when fighting the ghost w/guld so really only one of them had weapons at the time. (eventhough there was an odd scene where the 19 suddenly has it again and is shooting at the ghost; which is similar to the inconsistency of isamu smashing his main screen and then it appearing again in the next scene) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emajnthis Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 (edited) The other thing i have to add since m+ was popped from the mold of the real life happenings of the competition between the YF-22 and the YF-23 figher planes. Technically the YF-23 was the superior plane, but got shafted for the pick because of politics. This can further support anyones idea that maybe it was purely because the 19 "saved the day" or in other respects was cheaper to produce (since we know that's all the government cares about anyway). Edited November 2, 2005 by emajnthis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Well technically the YF-19 didn't have his gunpod when fighting the ghost w/guld so really only one of them had weapons at the time. The YF-19 DOES have integrated weaponry, as does (I think) every VF since the original Valkyrie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emajnthis Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 (edited) Well technically the YF-19 didn't have his gunpod when fighting the ghost w/guld so really only one of them had weapons at the time. The YF-19 DOES have integrated weaponry, as does (I think) every VF since the original Valkyrie. 341641[/snapback] I'm aware of that being valid, except in the scene (after he loses his gun pod) shells are flying and there's burst fire from where his gunpod should be So unless there's integrated weaponry in the same place as his gunpod (i wonder where/what it would be though, maybe if you have a picture you can upload) then that'd be cool. I'm aware of the YF-21 have the extra weaponry on his arms (as demonstrated in his test flight) but from the movie, the YF-19 showed no signs of other integrated weaponry. there was one scene in the tests where he had an extra armor piece to destroy a cardboard monster but that was about it. Again, if you have some tech specs that you can upload to list all of his interal weaponry then i'd love to see it Edited November 3, 2005 by emajnthis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 (edited) I'm aware of that being valid, except in the scene (after he loses his gun pod) shells are flying and there's burst fire from where his gunpod should be Animation error. Those shots were coming from the cannons in the wing root. So unless there's integrated weaponry in the same place as his gunpod (i wonder where/what it would be though, maybe if you have a picture you can upload) then that'd be cool. I'm aware of the YF-21 have the extra weaponry on his arms (as demonstrated in his test flight) but from the movie, the YF-19 showed no signs of other integrated weaponry. Just because you don't see it in action, doesn't mean it's not there. there was one scene in the tests where he had an extra armor piece to destroy a cardboard monster but that was about it. Actually, that was a leftover Monster that was used to test the penetration of the experimental arm-block cannon. Again, if you have some tech specs that you can upload to list all of his interal weaponry then i'd love to see it 341857[/snapback] Ask and ye shall receive. http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/united_...yf19/index.html JB0...you can deal with him. Oh, and JB0...you are correct. Almost every VF (that we have seen) has had some integrated weaponry. From a little head-laser to arm-mounted beam cannons to integrated missile hardpoints. The only one that comes to mind that doesn't contain any is the VF-9. However, we don't have many specs on that craft, so we can only speculate at best with just the VF-9. Edited November 3, 2005 by azrael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emajnthis Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 (edited) I'm aware of that being valid, except in the scene (after he loses his gun pod) shells are flying and there's burst fire from where his gunpod should be Animation error. Those shots were coming from the cannons in the wing root. So unless there's integrated weaponry in the same place as his gunpod (i wonder where/what it would be though, maybe if you have a picture you can upload) then that'd be cool. I'm aware of the YF-21 have the extra weaponry on his arms (as demonstrated in his test flight) but from the movie, the YF-19 showed no signs of other integrated weaponry. Just because you don't see it in action, doesn't mean it's not there. there was one scene in the tests where he had an extra armor piece to destroy a cardboard monster but that was about it. Actually, that was a leftover Monster that was used to test the penetration of the experimental arm-block cannon. Again, if you have some tech specs that you can upload to list all of his interal weaponry then i'd love to see it 341857[/snapback] Ask and ye shall receive. http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/united_...yf19/index.html JB0...you can deal with him. Oh, and JB0...you are correct. Almost every VF (that we have seen) has had some integrated weaponry. From a little head-laser to arm-mounted beam cannons to integrated missile hardpoints. The only one that comes to mind that doesn't contain any is the VF-9. However, we don't have many specs on that craft, so we can only speculate at best with just the VF-9. 341880[/snapback] I actually read those specs Before and yet it still doesn't confirm him dropping shells and placement of the muzzle flash. And if you're stating that it's an "animation error" then that immediately answers the fact that it should've been different, and that part of my initial debate is confirmed. As for him having integrated weapons, i was aware of the head cannon (though i'd find it hard to fight a ghost with a head cannon) and after more careful analysis of the YF-19 data from the compendium (thank you for the link btw) he does have some extra lasers. However, i would hardly consider this a viable fighting weapon against the ghost compared to how fully loaded he was before he fought Guld. I just don't imagine him doing much good fighting with secondary cannons and a head laser. Furthermore, i'm not someone to "deal with" I'm actually in a debate, so I'd appreciate some proper treatment. Edited November 3, 2005 by emajnthis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 (edited) As for him having integrated weapons, i was aware of the head cannon (though i'd find it hard to fight a ghost with a head cannon) and after more careful analysis of the YF-19 data from the compendium (thank you for the link btw) he does have some extra lasers. However, i would hardly consider this a viable fighting weapon against the ghost compared to how fully loaded he was before he fought Guld. I just don't imagine him doing much good fighting with secondary cannons and a head laser. Furthermore, i'm not someone to "deal with" I'm actually in a debate, so I'd appreciate some proper treatment. I was just pointing out that sans gunpods both planes are spec'ed with similar forward firepower. The YF-21's big firepower advantage in F mode comes from rear-firing weaponry. The YF-19's wing lasers are forward-firing only, and it has a single laser pointing back. The YF-21's arm lasers are 2-way, and it has 4 head lasers pointing back. But for a frontal assault, both planes have 2 lasers, of seemingly similar class(if model #s are any indication). In GERWALK or battroid mode, the arm-mounted YF-21 guns would be more versatile than the wing-mounted YF-19 ones due to the extra range of motion available(the YF-19 wings are clipped to the less-aimable legs) and afore-mentioned back-firing capability(I belive the 21/22 is the only GERWALK/battroid with rear defense capability). Just don't reach out to the side and fire backwards... Edited November 3, 2005 by JB0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emajnthis Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 As for him having integrated weapons, i was aware of the head cannon (though i'd find it hard to fight a ghost with a head cannon) and after more careful analysis of the YF-19 data from the compendium (thank you for the link btw) he does have some extra lasers. However, i would hardly consider this a viable fighting weapon against the ghost compared to how fully loaded he was before he fought Guld. I just don't imagine him doing much good fighting with secondary cannons and a head laser. Furthermore, i'm not someone to "deal with" I'm actually in a debate, so I'd appreciate some proper treatment. I was just pointing out that sans gunpods both planes are spec'ed with similar forward firepower. The YF-21's big firepower advantage in F mode comes from rear-firing weaponry. The YF-19's wing lasers are forward-firing only, and it has a single laser pointing back. The YF-21's arm lasers are 2-way, and it has 4 head lasers pointing back. But for a frontal assault, both planes have 2 lasers, of seemingly similar class(if model #s are any indication). In GERWALK or battroid mode, the arm-mounted YF-21 guns would be more versatile than the wing-mounted YF-19 ones due to the extra range of motion available(the YF-19 wings are clipped to the less-aimable legs) and afore-mentioned back-firing capability(I belive the 21/22 is the only GERWALK/battroid with rear defense capability). Just don't reach out to the side and fire backwards... 341976[/snapback] Very credible thank you for clarifying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 As for him having integrated weapons, i was aware of the head cannon (though i'd find it hard to fight a ghost with a head cannon) and after more careful analysis of the YF-19 data from the compendium (thank you for the link btw) he does have some extra lasers. However, i would hardly consider this a viable fighting weapon against the ghost compared to how fully loaded he was before he fought Guld. I just don't imagine him doing much good fighting with secondary cannons and a head laser. Furthermore, i'm not someone to "deal with" I'm actually in a debate, so I'd appreciate some proper treatment. I was just pointing out that sans gunpods both planes are spec'ed with similar forward firepower. The YF-21's big firepower advantage in F mode comes from rear-firing weaponry. The YF-19's wing lasers are forward-firing only, and it has a single laser pointing back. The YF-21's arm lasers are 2-way, and it has 4 head lasers pointing back. But for a frontal assault, both planes have 2 lasers, of seemingly similar class(if model #s are any indication). In GERWALK or battroid mode, the arm-mounted YF-21 guns would be more versatile than the wing-mounted YF-19 ones due to the extra range of motion available(the YF-19 wings are clipped to the less-aimable legs) and afore-mentioned back-firing capability(I belive the 21/22 is the only GERWALK/battroid with rear defense capability). Just don't reach out to the side and fire backwards... 341976[/snapback] Very credible thank you for clarifying! 342155[/snapback] No prob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briareos9 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Actually, the Ghost was pushing itself so hard at the end, in the movie at least, you see its exterior and the YF-21's are taking damage from just the maneuvers. Not enough for structural collapse, but they were pulling maneuvers which we're ripping the planes apart. So clearly the safety systems were off on both planes, they were operating purely in the region of what they were capable of, not what was safe to do. Considering just how utterly the YF-21 was mocking swarms of their new missiles in the safe limits there wasn't exactly anything he could use to hit it without having to match the squirmy thing maneuver for maneuver. In Macross Plus the BCS/BDI only really screwed up once, ignoring crashing the VF-11 due to sensitivity, and that scene had much weirdness to it. It just happening to have a friendly correspond with where a target he was aiming at, which may have been a big factor. Guld did seem to be quite clearly angry whe he was kicking Isamu's butt on Earth, did he not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 That arguably wasn't a screw up on the YF-21's part.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindem Herz Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 Almost every VF (that we have seen) has had some integrated weaponry. From a little head-laser to arm-mounted beam cannons to integrated missile hardpoints. The only one that comes to mind that doesn't contain any is the VF-9. However, we don't have many specs on that craft, so we can only speculate at best with just the VF-9. Actually the VF-9 has a couple of big ass lasers mounted on the right shoulder for battroid and gerwalk, roughly where the lasers would be on the VF-1 on fighter mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Almost every VF (that we have seen) has had some integrated weaponry. From a little head-laser to arm-mounted beam cannons to integrated missile hardpoints. The only one that comes to mind that doesn't contain any is the VF-9. However, we don't have many specs on that craft, so we can only speculate at best with just the VF-9. Actually the VF-9 has a couple of big ass lasers mounted on the right shoulder for battroid and gerwalk, roughly where the lasers would be on the VF-1 on fighter mode. 342562[/snapback] You're right, forgot about those. I take that back then, ALL VFs have integrated weaponry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mislovrit Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 (I belive the 21/22 is the only GERWALK/battroid with rear defense capability). Just don't reach out to the side and fire backwards... 341976[/snapback] Could have swore the VF-14s and VA-14s had rear defenses as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 (I belive the 21/22 is the only GERWALK/battroid with rear defense capability). Just don't reach out to the side and fire backwards... 341976[/snapback] Could have swore the VF-14s and VA-14s had rear defenses as well? 342646[/snapback] Maybe... They don't have weapons specs listed in the Compendium. But... The Fz-109 that's based on the VF-14 seems to lack rear firepower in battroid mode, though it's got some in GERWALK. Which would make me half-wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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