Final Vegeta

Even the VF-27 has an ISC, but it was made for a cyborg as pilot, so clearly the ISC maxes out before the pilot endurance. It is not, it shows that we don't know the istantaneous g-limit of the VF-25. FV

It already is. But obviously Kawamori would retcon the VF-19, why contradict recent stats? This has been obviously retconned: now Kawamori says that fuselage can melt, so the same applies to all VFs. Well, at least for those who reach Mach 5 at 10,000m. It's a reminder for the movie. Kawamori purposely made us know there will be more atmospheric battles. By the way, since the VF-25 has double the thrust of the VF-19, it would seem strange if it hadn't the power to use also the PPB while in fighter mode. I still don't understand how someone can keep the same velocity while pulling some g's, but maybe it's too complicated for the purpose of this forum FV

Acceleration perpendicular to the direction of travel? You mean that a VF can move sideways like a crab? And given a top speed of 5 Mach, only flying forward is involved, while the perpendicular vector is never integrated back from acceleration to velocity and then summed? And I thought planes made turns and generally lost speed while maneuvering. How naive I was But the F-35 carries weapons internally, thus having less drag, and it's optimized for exceptional subsonic to supersonic acceleration. I hope you realize you can rely only on thrust to weight ratio stat. Plus the electronic hardware of the F-35 is vastly superior, and the F-16 is not even stealth. Well, in that example the F-35 actually won Only if I let you know the velocity, which I don't Why should it be important? It's a matter of superiority, not numbers. Not more but equal, meaning that the ISC work both ways with the same efficiency. And then again, I remind you 27.5g is a measure for a 2 minutes substained acceleration, not for an instantaneous acceleration. Long pulses at low intensity are more effective than short pulses at high intensity; for example a thermobaric weapon with a long pressure wave can demolish a building. FV

Never heard about retconning? Actually, standard is exactly the word used in the VF-25's page: Maximum speed: * standard, in atmosphere at 10000 m: Mach 5.0+, on account of the fuselage heat-resistance boundary. Obviously implying there was a "not standard" speed as well Nor we know his altitude, making all this striking suggestion moot. Future reminder: it is not actually stated anywhere it can't. We actually never even saw the VF-27 using that technique in animation. And then Kawamori listed different Mach speed for different altitude, so that we know the speed of sound in itself is not the decisive factor. By the way, even when you talked about the F-15/16/22/35 even you always used Mach. Everyone use Mach for aircraft speed. Suddenly we are not fine with Mach anymore? FV

Semantics is the science of understanding the meaning in language. Glad I got it on my side. See? Your poor understanding of semantics make you thought that, when you were talking about "incorporating previous elements", and I was replying to "incorporating previous elements", I was actually talking about the g-limits, and since I am not you are feeling like you have a point on me, which you don't, because you didn't even remember what you were arguing about. Also, Kawamori was speaking about the design, not the performance. If that was your point, I can concede that having the same mecha designer there are graphical similarities, but it doesn't fit in the general debate. Please be semantically focused next time. If two things accelerate differently, how can velocity stay the same? I mean, acceleration is exactly the change in velocity. And this told by one person who professed himself to be quite knowledgeable in physics. Sorry but if you keep speaking nonsense I just won't try to reason with you anymore. No pilot can pull greater g's than +9/-3 for substained periods without being knocked back unconscious. Also, no one has ever planned for fighters to win all battles through pulling g's. If achievable, fighting beyond visual range is the best solution. Welcome to the real world, where victory is all. Similarly, no matter what, provided a similar skills pilot a VF-25 can always outmatch a VF-19. Also the idea that an ISC installed on a VF-19 would allow the pilot to pull more g's than in a VF-25 is only speculation, for what we know the maximum ability for the ISC could be always 27.5g no matter the machine in which it was installed. If by "related" you mean there's actually a mathematical formula to obtain one from the other, in fact it's a no. Turn Radius = Velocity^2 ÷ ( g x TAN ( angle ) ) Turn Rate = g x TAN ( angle ) ÷ Velocity Well, that's mathematic semantics anyway. We do have other data: the model of vernier thrusters. Which matters since when you talk about maneuverability your topic is usually flight controls. Also, we actually don't have a standard measurement at all, as explained in my previous posts. For example, we are not told how many negative g's a VF-25 can pull. FV

I said "some kind of". I can't find your original post, but I remember you were unsure of the wording even back then. Possible what is read are neural pulses along the spine more than brain thoughts. Moreover, how many people remember that the sentence about the successor was removed from the official site after a while? This is obvious: the atmosphere is denser at sea level, increasing drag. FV

Check the official Compendium. Supposedly lower. If the Quarter had a superior technology they should have scaled it back on the Battles. The beam is graphically different, and the Quarter is able to fire smaller pulses as well. They are also described differently, the Quarter has a Heavy Quantum Reaction Cannon, while the SDF-1 had an Overtechnology Macross bow-firing super-dimension-energy cannon with beam polarizing converging system. It boasts the of mobility and combat performance of a fighter even though it is the size of mid-scale warship. That's the ISC (Inertia Store Converter), the EX-gear just has some kind of integrated Brainwave Direct Control System (Azrael found this in a booklet). FV

That would make it a "descendant", not a successor As for incorporating previous elements, it is quite stated the contrary: we got ISC, EX-gear, new anti-optical weapon armor, new linear actuators for transformation... the VF-25 is clearly another generation compared to the VF-19/22. Planes don't break because of acceleration, they break because the acceleration creates a force, a force that is acceleration times mass (F = m*a). This is elementary physics. It means that the same acceleration may produce a different force if the mass is different, which is what I am arguing here. G-limits are not an objective measure of maneuvrability, it was already explained by David Hingten. A car can make tighter turns than the fastest planes. How do you explain that? You only proved that you are speaking hypotheticals and you are not knowledgeable of physic laws. That's because the F-35 weights more. The engines of the F-35 is superior in terms of thrust. You are straining my metaphor though. In real world there aren't crazy engineering escalations on one hand, and planes can't surpass the limits of the pilots on the other. The maneuverability of a plane is also dependent on its flight controls, which are dependent on the atmosphere (and usually the fastest planes are not very maneuverable). Fuel consumption is also a problem. On a one-on-one though the F-35 is designed to have a higher probability of winning over a fourth generation fighter though. FV

They were poachers, not pirates but maybe Kawamori didn't like the idea that good guys became pirates. You know, in real world pirates are bad people, only in fiction they are honorable. Guess he was too involved with the preproduction of Basquash. FV

But then it would be no "successor" If it had the same capabilities it would be "equivalent". Set aside that g-limits aren't a real measure of manouvrability, the data we have actually don't confirm that. First of all, we don't know what "maximum airframe load" we are talking about, and since g's are calculated by weight times acceleration, we don't know if the two g-limit stats are comparable. We've seen a VF-25 with an armored pack on, plus 4 nuclear missiles. The maximum airframe load is likely to be double that of a VF-19. Without FAST Packs on the g-limit should be considerably higher. Second thing, with the VF-25 we are given the number for a substained acceleration. Does that mean the with the other VFs the g-limit is supposed to be istantaneous? In conclusion the numbers may not mean the same thing, so they are not comparable. And I suspect authors don't want to make them directly comparable. The F-35 is a single engine design, to have stats comparable to double engine designs is still a feat. And the g-limits are always the same, because that what a pilot can stand. For the newest fighters they will be always listed at 9g. FV

You will have to wait for the last DVD/BD to come out, though FV

Thanks! It's great stuff. It seems I guessed half-right about the part of Brera not having a "soul" during fold. (actually, I remember I read on this forum that those where ethereal bodies, but I never found that post again) Also hilarious how things Ranka was bashed for (and even things Sheryl was praised for) were actually references of SDFM's novels. FV

Actually, that statement (そのフォルムは名機ＶＦ－１を思わせるが、戦闘性能はＶＦ－１９およびＶＦ－２２シリーズの正統的な後継機といえる。) meant that as for battle abilities the VF-25 was the legitimate successor of the VF-19/22. Successor implies being superior, not "comparable". Who'd want a main character that pilots an economic mecha? (well, with a Western audience there might be some nods ) Try to think in terms of anime logic. Well, actually even in real world terms it's like that. If we take the F-35 as example, it is cheaper and inferior compared to the F-22, but the requirements are: four times more effective than legacy fighters in air-to-air combat, eight times more effective in air-to-ground battle combat, and three times more effective in reconnaissance and suppression of air defenses. These capabilities are to be achieved while still having significantly better range and require less logistics support than legacy aircraft Nobody is gonna build something new that is radically worse than previous models, or there wouldn't be any point in building it. FV

I think this kind of information may be used as basis on what to develop more in the movie. For this reason I voted Brera who I felt was underdeveloped in the series, and also Ranka. As for episodes, I voted 12, 17 and 25. FV

Oh, a speculation thread, my idea of fun Well, it's clear that the VF-171 is no more Mr. Heavy Battroid. When you work with 3D, if you want a slender Fighter you will have a slender Battroid. The original VF-17 with a little of anime magic could manage to look tough, the VF-171 can't therefore ain't. The loss of armor was kinda compensated by the addiction of the PPB though, and the loss of weaponry by modular armament; the resulting inferior weight means more agility and speed. Whether or not the VF-171 still employs passive stealth it's not terribly important in Macross where there is active stealth, and furthermore the VF-171 could still represent stealth shapes more aerodynamic like in the F-22. Mind that the VF-171 has kept the twisted intake design of its predecessor. About the engines, the VF-17 already had decent engines, but with all the years between 7 and Frontier I expect the standards to be risen. Summing up, I think the VF-171 is basically on par with a VF-19. This makes sense since the VF-25 is a monster with twice the engine output of a VF-19. FV

Well, zooming in the picture it is written that Sheryl was previously 5th and Macross F was 8th. FV

Except for the fact that the VF-27 shoots beams and not bullets, and that its gunpod is almost longer than the fighter itself FV

Is it really a good idea? Weren't Japanese very superstitious? FV

To be exact, in that sentence there is a ぐらい which means "approximately". I think it means that the movie will have all the things we expect from the love triangle except for a few twists. FV

In this dictionary: * 一石を投じる make a difference * （～に）一石を投じる cause [create, make] a stir (in) * ～に一石を投じる raise a question about So no, the relationship won't be resolved. I'm glad for the athmospheric fights though. FV

Ranka's sign is the "I Love You" sign (I L U). It's not surprising other people knew it. FV

It reminds me a dojinshi by Studio MAT, which was exactly about the VF-1. FV

It was no joke. AFAIR alternate spellings were chosen to differentiate Macross from Robotech. Apart from Focker/Fokker, we should have also got Minmay/Minmei, Britai/Breetai and Global/Gloval (don't remember who got what). And anyway, who told you that Fokker was necessarily what the authors meant? Japanese usually hide references with similar spellings. It may have been only an allusion. FV

IIRC it's no mistake, Fokker is a character in Robotech. FV

I am a lucky amateur FV