Cyclone Trooper

The only downside to the SDF-2 is that its supposedly non-transformable. It's strictly a battlecruiser...

Mods, move this to the proper thread accordingly, but for the time being, here's the link to the song in english...

There's a singer who translated it into English and actually performed it on YouTube. Do a search on YouTube for Christine Vee. I've heard it...and honestly, while she's not a horrible singer, it just sounds kind of goofy in anything other than Japanese. Apparently Vee took the lyrics from the screenshot in DYRL where Minmay is holding a sheet of SDF-1 stationary with the English lyrics on it at the end of the movie. For what its worth, it DOES give us an idea of what her song would have sounded like, had she been singing in anything besides Japanese...for better or worse.

LOL...okay, point taken!

Well...statistically, there ARE more and more people growing up with ADD and ADHD than ever before, and subsequently, our worldwide society is developing into a kind of "microwave mentality" where everything has to be instant, interesting, short, and shallow for it to hold the interest of the vast majority of younger people for any given length of time. I have several nieces and nephews who fall into this category, so I speak from my experiences of being around them when I say this. Bright and flashy visuals coupled with ear-splitting audio will hold their attention for maybe up to 2 minutes...then they lose interest to the point of wandering off to find something else to do for about 5 minutes. Not trying to offend anyone who has ADD/ADHD, I'm just trying to give a possible answer to your line of reasoning... Macross F, just like Roy's been saying, is simply a product of its current environment...

I'm gonna get flogged for saying this, but I've never liked the Quarter's design...and therefore will pass on this one in favor of the Yamato SDF-1. I think it really has to do with basically the same priciple that edwin3060 has been hitting on...that its TOO robotic and not "ship-like" enough. In 2009, the SDF-1's transformation sequence was a necessary evil to reconfigure the ship's power grid in order to fire the main cannon. So in essence, the transformable nature of the SDF-1 was because of a design flaw...a really cool-looking one that kicked copious amounts of ass, but a flaw nonetheless. But by the 2040s, transformable battlefortresses are not needed, for all intents and purposes. They can fire their main cannons without the need to change into a mile-long robot...so what tactical purpose does transformation serve, exactly? Aside from just the "cool" factor, that is? M7 and MF's ships, with their swiveling head-unit bridge towers (why would someone design such a thing in the first place, really?), gunpod-style main cannons, and lightning-quick movements (compared to the SDF-1), they more or less just resemble oversized Valkyries with FPs instead of battlefortresses. In this respect, somewhere along the way, the big ships of Macross have crossed over into the realm of "super-robots" a la Voltron or Power Rangers or any of the non-UC Gundams. Okay...let my flogging begin.

I have to agree with you here. Macross F is fan-catering at its most blatant. Now I can understand that its supposed to be a string of nods to the original Macross with the VERY similar character types (Michel/Max; Ranka/Minmay, etc.), the Miclone/Meltran love-hate thing between Michel and Klan (Max & Milia, anyone?), the DYRL-style SDF ship, the Britai, Kamjin, and Exedol clones...the list goes on. Then there were the ever slick reminders that we're watching a 25th anniversary homage to Macross by adding "25" to the SMS uniform sleeves, a split-second eye-catch outside the concert arena (the place with the two big dragons on the roof) where all the signs outside the building were displaying "Macross 25th." Alto emulating Isamu's hand gestures, the DYRL rehash scene where Alto saves Ranka in midair, etc. Again...I could waste time listing more examples, but we all know what they are. While I also didn't think it was the worst thing I've ever seen, I can honestly say that I, too, was left feeling a bit more like I was watching softcore hentai than something that I'd be proud to include in my mind's vision of what "Macross" is supposed to be. I may be skirting disaster here by bringing this parallel up, but I simply found the whole war with the Vajra idea to be way too much like MOSPEADA, and the fact that Valkyrie pilots now have augmented flying armor that they can wear outside of their mecha only cements my MOSPEADA opinion even more. Let's see...a hive-mind xenological enemy with various "stages" of evolution controlled by a "queen" all across the cosmos. Yep, seen it before...in MOSPEADA. Now as I said, its not the worst thing ever made. The writing was actually quite good, IF the subbing was accurate. For the most part, I enjoyed the battle scenes and most of the witty banter between the core cast. But the fact that there were so many characters who were designed to be instantly recognizable as anagrams of original Macross "celebrities" just got old after a while. Hmmm...how many drew the glaring parallel between Cathy Glass and Misa Hayase? A show of hands please? The only tip-of-the-hat that I really enjoyed was the Zentraedi Battalion that was having its own little private war amongst the ranks. It was cool to see a mix of TV-style Zentran troops along with DYRL-style shock troopers...led by a Kamjin clone. Again, this was sort of a remake of the episode in SDFM where Kamjin's forces attempt to steal a miclone chamber...reworked a tad, but cool nonetheless. Would I sit through all 25 episodes again? Probably not. I'd file this away in the "been there, done that, moving on" folder right along with Macross 7. And I don't really feel the need to add a VF-25 to my list of "must-have" mecha either...but that's an opinion I'll expand upon in the Toys forum.

Well we at least have a definite length on this thing...65 centimeters (nearly 26 inches). That's 2.13 feet of Macross goodness!

Honestly, the only part of MII that I hated was the Marduk themselves. Before seeing this series, I had completely understood and bought into the idea that the Zentraedi, Meltrandi and human race were all "legacies" of the Protoculture; and that the Protoculture as a race was as dead as disco. But suddenly, MII renigs on that concept and REPLACES the Protoculture with the Marduk (or Mardook, depending on what source you go with), who are obviously very alive and thriving. One constant denominator about the Zentraedi and Meltrandi is the fact that their ship designs, mecha designs and weaponry haven't evolved at all in thousands of years. Its like their Factory Satellites and Production Planets had already reached their zenith of technological and destructive potential and simply churned out billions of Regults, Q-Raus/Reas, Command Ships, Destroyers, etc. over the centuries with relatively little variance. But the Marduk arrive in our solar system with a fleet of Zentran-esque ships that are either refits of existing ships-of-the-line or "next-gen" variants. And legless battlepods... Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but the original SDFM storyline (and the city scene in DYRL) had established that the Protoculture viewed the Zentraedi and Meltrandi ultimately as failures in their genetic experimentation because they became so uncontrollably violent. This caused the Schism War, which pitted Zentraedi, Meltrandi and the Protoculture's own Supervision Army in a 3-way struggle that ultimately brought an end to the Protoculture completely. That being said...who exactly were the Marduk supposed to be? Remnants of the Protoculture? A brand new race that had somehow defeated and enslaved the Zentraedi and Meltrandi? And I'm in the minority here about how every panel, window, kitchen sink, garden hose, nut and bolt now open up on the SDF-1 like a badly-designed Transformer just to fire the Macross Cannon. Why overwork the plumbing? I'm actually kinda glad that Kawamori banished this to the "alternate universe" bin. It just seemed so convoluted, considering everything that had already been established...sort of like what Enterprise did to the Star Trek franchise.

It's already started. I heard a report on our local news radio station that gas prices are expected to rise 18 cents before the end of March...putting the national average back above the $2 mark. Here we go again...

Simple... Like a lot of toy companies nowadays, Yamato is getting maximum use out of their toy molds by regurgitating the same two or three Valkyries or Destroids in various color schemes and "weathered specials" to keep collectors hopelessly addicted. I've worked for Toys R Us for what seems like eons...and I can attest to witnessing this addiction firsthand. The easiest example I can give you is the Clone Trooper action figure from Star Wars. Since Episode III came out 3 1/2 years ago, we've seen the same damned figure released and rereleased ad-nauseum with red, dark blue, light blue, dark green, light green, gold, gray, camo, black, brown, purple and orange accents on the armor. Oh, and let's not forget just plain white. For a while, it seemed Hasbro had every intention of creating non-canon Troopers just so it could release ones in hot pink or teal. But the reason Hasbro did this was to make the most of a single mold with very little (if any) retooling involved. And hardcore Star Wars collectors (mainly grown men), would come in and buy them by the dozens. Yamato is most likely following this same marketing strategy right now. Release the same old Hikaru 1J/1S and Roy 1S with a light weathering wash...and market the hell out of them as a Limited Edition series. I'm fairly certain that the folks at Yamato have their fingers on the pulse of how their products are used and displayed after they're sold...as any manufacturer would. When enough of their Valkyries and Destroids started showing up on customizer sites with weathered effects, it sent a definite message that there is a somewhat viable market for weathered mecha. And there are collectors out there who will buy them, even if they ARE more expensive than a Valkyrie with Fast Packs because its different from anything else in their current collections...and they may not have the skills to do the weathering nor know someone who does. The end result is a "new" limited-production item that had practically no added cost to make, aside from what had to be spent on the extra paint for the airbrushing.

O_o lol

Oihan, I had a similar situation happen just yesterday. Apparently I am the only person on Macross World who had not seen the "lost footage" from DYRL that was used in the PSX game. Someone had posted a YouTube link to a dubbed version of it in a thread I had started. I thought this was the coolest thing since sliced bread. I further researched this clip and found a version of it with its original soundtrack. The bonus was that there was also a scene showing the ARMD-02 performing a "Daedalus Maneuver" complete with pin-point barriers covering the bow as it ripped through a Zentraedi Destroyer. Well, a few weeks prior, I had read an off-handed comment by another member about whether or not the DYRL SDF-1 could actually do the Daedalus Attack or not. When i saw this footage, I felt like I had found the Holy Grail of DYRL scenes...and created a new topic thread on it day before yesterday. Yesterday morning, I found that my thread was gone. It had not been deleted like miriya's apparently had been, but had been moved to the YouTube thread. I didn't get an explanation as to why it was moved by a mod or anyone else. But honestly, they didn't have to. It was rather self-explanatory as to why a YouTube clip had been moved to the appropriate thread. Also, these DYRL clips are extremely old news to long-time members and are actually something of a bore to them at this stage of the game. And I was told so in the YouTube thread. Did I get offended? Not one bit. Why? Because I understand that there are going to be tons of things on here---especially where the older series and movies are concerned---that I will discover for the first time...things that other members have known about literally for years. Does this breed a certain level of "elitism" as you've put it, Oihan? Well...sure it does. Anyone who considers themselves an "expert" on any given subject will naturally find themselves asking, "Where have you been? Living under a rock somewhere? EVERYONE already knows about INSERT SUBJECT HERE. Is this wrong? No, not really. Could some people brush up on their people skills when they convey their disdain for the 15th "new" post on DYRL? Of course. But honestly, in the grand scheme of Macross World, its neither a democracy nor is it dictatorship. It's more akin to a prison yard (bad analogy, I know...but bear with me here, I'm going somewhere with this). The "general population" is allowed to mix and intermingle in the forums as long as the rules of the site are followed. But as soon as someone starts posting something that is inappropriate or just completely out of left field...the prison guards (the mods) do their jobs and perform a "lock down". Do prison guards have to notify prisoners why they're doing what they're doing? Absolutely not. You do as you're told...and that's that. Otherwise, life goes on here on Macross World fairly regimented and without too much "drama" with the exception of a few occasional outbursts. By no means am I saying MW is a prison!! Just want to go on the record by pointing that out. I'm merely saying that forum sites, especially ones with specific themes (hence MACROSS World), have to keep the forums policed to insure that there's a certain level of continuity...and the prison analogy was the best one I could think of. Just like eugimon said, cats and dogs have no place in a fish forum, even though they all belong to the general animal kingdom. If you really look at a broad cross-section of threads in the forums, the mods really do allow quite a bit of lee-way when it comes to going off-topic once in a while. And that may be because the members here do a pretty good job policing themselves. The most I've seen a topic go awry is MAYBE a page or two before getting refocused...usually by a member. The mods only crack down on issues that truly deserve their time and attention. And if some of them seem surly or sarcastic...you can't really blame them. Moderation is not another word for "babysitting." And even if they do lower the boom on someone, its always with good reason. But honestly, the most I've ever seen one of them do is what amounts to a slap on the wrist...and it was deserved. But I have heard of outright bannings and account deletions, but I certainly don't believe that they take such extreme measures just because they're abusing their power. At its heart, Macross World is an international site...and therefore has members from all different cultures. A comment made by someone could roll off the back of one person or decimate another, depending on how they want to take it, language barriers, etc. I don't necessarily think you need to have skin a foot thick to participate as an active member here. But I do think we, as members, are expected to be civil to one another...and not take ourselves or others so seriously. EXO (who is a mod, mind you) has often reminded people that its "just the internet" and he's absolutely correct. Perhaps other anime forums are run with quite a bit less decorum than MW, and therefore may have a more casual flow in topic discussions. But I have to agree that forums like that are a nearly unsearchable mess if you are looking for specific information. I've been on sites where I've searched for info on UC-era Gundam series...only to find rambling discussions that, ironically, gravitate toward whatever Gundam series is currently popular (Gundam 00, for example). That's great...but tells me absolutely nothing about 08th MS Team or War In The Pocket. In contrast, you don't find that here on MW. If you're searching for DYRL info, you can usually find volumes of it with little effort. Need lineart from the TV series? You'll find specific threads on that too. And all because MW is run like a well-tuned Valkyrie. Just my 20,000 Yen...

In another thread, footage from the DYRL video game was posted that filled in the emergency launch of the DYRL version of the SDF-1 and also covered how the Prometheus was destroyed in the movie. I browsed YouTube and came across an extended version of that footage with the original soundtrack on it. What I discovered was the SDF-1 performing a "Daedalus Maneuver" using the ARMD-02. It also fills in the few seconds just before Minmay begins her legendary song. This is all incredibly NICE animation that closely fits into the original 1984 anime. Enjoy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm3-MDSvLiQ

HOLY CRAP! I've never seen that before! It was animation done specifically for the video game, but fills in gaps in DYRL like the destruction of the Prometheus. Then that settles it as far as I'm concerned whether the ARMDs were attached prior to launch or not... It also sort of proves that DYRL isn't a "movie-within-a-TV-series" but just a bigger budget retelling of the TV series... That was awesome!

Well, the main question wasn't whether the ARMDs were or weren't permanently docked or not. It was more a question of what role the "captains" and bridge crews of the ARMDs play in the command heirarchy. Do they actually hold the rank of Captain like Global or are they lower-ranking officers? Most of the answers thus far make sense in the respect that they are basically auxiliary bridges used for vessel-specific functions. Each ARMD bridge coordinates Valkyries launches/landings, squadron deployment, etc. while the SDF-1 bridge takes over once the Valkyries are deployed and their missions are underway. DYRL really answered by own question (I think) in the "press conference" scene where Global explains how humans and Zentraedi are genetically similar, were both created by the Protoculture, etc. There are several other men sitting at the conference table with him with the same exact command uniforms that he is wearing. These men were perhaps the captains of their respective ARMDs. I could be completely off base with this assumption, but it works for me. For all I know, they may actually be Global's attaches, adjutants, or the UN Spacy's Joint Chiefs of Staff appointed to the SDF-1. Going back to the permanent/not permanent argument, I think the DYRL versions of the ARMDs were definitely permanent. The one and only reason I have for that is the fact that ARMD-01 and ARMD-02 are mirror images of one another, thereby suggesting that they were specifically designed to be permanent components of the SDF-1. All other ARMDs follow a standard deckplan layout. Maybe there is a specific sub-class of ARMD that was designated to dock with larger vessels like SDF-1 or Megaroad while the others were designed for independent operation.

...why is the sky blue?

And honestly, if you want to look at this from a pure "anime" point of view...the SDF-1 needed SOMETHING to resemble arms when it transformed into a humanoid form...be it ARMD platforms or seagoing vessels never originally meant to be spaceworthy...

Agreed, EXO...but with our luck, the part that breaks will be...like most recent Yamato offerings...the shoulders!

...and ironically, confuses me more by simplifying things. The bridge of the SDF-1 itself is a six-story structure with at least 3 levels just at the viewport level. The "main bridge" is designed like a high-tech balcony where Global runs the whole thing. Directly beneath the main bridge is supposed to be Tactical Control, where all armament except the main cannon is handled. Then below that, are two outboard catwalk-like crew decks with larger versions of the Threat Board on the main bridge...and the lower holographic display between them. And if you listen carefully during the opening of DYRL, you can specifically hear in both Japanese (and English!!) various crew members barking orders, including someone telling an Elintseeker pilot, "don't send radar signals to the bridge!" So apparently the fortress itself has a flight coordination crew just like the ARMDs do. Maybe its because I overanalyze things too much that I'm trying to make sense out of something that, at the end of the day, is just an anime...lol

But we're all assuming that the ARMDs are these solid hunks of ABS plastic. For all we know, they'll be made fairly light by being made with hollow cores. And the ARMD itself is little more than a thin rectangle on pontoons as its basic shape...so there's really not much mass to it at all.

Okay, now that the title has completely confused everyone and piqued your attention to actually read this thread, here's what I've been wondering... The DYRL SDF-1, unlike the TV version, was designed right out of the gate to allow docking of smaller vessels...in this case, the ARMD platforms. Whether or not they were designed to easily detach from the fortress proper and redock or not is never really covered in any kind of detail. Now, assuming that the rebuilt SDF-1 was supposed to have two permanently-attached ARMDs, are the bridges of each of these "arms" always manned? And if so, why? Are the bridge crews of the ARMDs just there to coordinate Valkyrie launches and squadron deployment? Are there two other captains besides Global? I do apologize if this has been covered elsewhere years ago, but this is just something that's always bugged me. I never could wrap my mind around the "Voltron Syndrome" where there's a "pilot" (or in this case, a captain) in each limb of the "combined" mecha...so this question sort of falls into that same mindframe with me. Also, it seems like the DYRL version of the ARMD has TWO bridges...what's that all about? It has the bridge tower on the upper hull...and another bridge-like structure with a wrap-around viewport at the bow of the ship. The old Macross II RPG books actually state that these are indeed dual bridges, but we all know how accurate Palladium RPG subject matter is pertaining to Macross... Can anyone shed the tiniest pinpoint of light on these burning questions for me? Or at very least lend their own opinions? I'm so confuzzled!

...and for that matter, why is the SDF-1's bridge designated Delta-1? Would the ARMD bridges be Delta-2 and Delta-3?

In the DYRL Gold Book, there's also a storyboard sketch that shows a Skull VF-1A with the designation of 017 with FP boosters above it on a hydraulic crane...but that scene ended up becoming the CF 1A being outfitted with Fast Packs just prior to the final battle. So I guess Skull-17 came THIIIIIIIIS close to being canon before ending up on the cutting room floor.

Titanium frame? A 2-foot ship that weighs 40 lbs? lol