Product9

Yeah, sorry 'bout that. Believe it or not, I forgot what thread I was in... that's what I get for posting on a mobile phone. So, back OT (assuming I'm in the right thread here...): doesn't the VF-0 have the ability to use ECA in fighter mode due to surplus power from the turbofans? Does the -51 have this ability? One thing that bothered me about the -51 was the naming convention for the weapons. Sounds like Kawamori tried to sound all Russian without actually knowing how they designate their weapons. Forgot the specifics - I'll edit this post when I get to a PC. Oh, another thing for the Zero - it can have Ghosts on its back, the so-called Angel configuration. Made me wonder if it could jetison the Ghost as a remote weapon. Sorta like funnels from Gundam, except, you know, not stupid. Here be my edit: The SV-51's gunpod is named Gsh-371, according to Mr. March's brilliant M3. It is a 55mm gunpod with (I believe) one barrel. Now, the naming convention comes from other Russian cannons, ie the GSh-301 that is so prevalent in Russian fighters. At first glance this looks savvy, but it's wrong. The GSh-301 (aka GSh-30-1) is a single barrel 30mm cannon designed by Gryazev-Shipunov. That's where the name comes from, Gryazev Shipunov-30mm, 1 barrel. This is how they are all named. GSh-6-23, GSh-6-30, etc. The name describes the weapon. So, shouldn't the SV-51's gunpod's name be GSh-551? That would make a lot more sense. This this really doesn't have much relevance to the argument. Just bugs me. Just like how it bugs me that in video games Gattling guns need time to 'spin up' before firing. People who make things need to read more books. Or at least Wikipedia...

Ah, yes. They've installed the plot device.

Yes. They hurt you, as well as every possible version of you

There are programs to give limited guidance to rockets, but what they're doing is far from what one would consider an 'all purpose missile.' Rather, the programs are designed to increase the accuracy of said rockets, because they generally suck against small targets. They won't be firing these things at nimble targets from high off-boresight angles like air-to-air missiles are capable of, but rather as direct fire weapons that can adjust their course just enough to ensure a hit, or at least make one more likely. I doubt if they can turn more than a few degrees without losing their target lock, especially in the very short time of flight. Also, is that the armor of a REAL T-72? Or just those pathetic Iraqi copies? I'm not saying its not possible - but rather just prohibitively expensive. Though as a kid, I always wanted something like that... About the -29, didn't someone say it would make use of fold quartz technology more heavily or something like that? What does that mean, exactly?

I suppose that's true. Kinda like the philosophy behind the small diameter bomb.

Good point, Nate. I like it - even moar drama :3

I didn't vote because I can't decide, but I did consider voting for Alto as well. He may not be a 'man's man', but I think he's a pretty good character, especially today where most mecha protagonists are whiny kids who are reluctant to get into the cockpit for one reason or another. Alto wanted nothing more than to fly, bomb stuff, shoot people down. And he was good at takin care of business. Sometimes he flew off the handle and got into trouble, but considering the capabilities of the VF-25, it was these situations where he really shined. Pilots today, and even in older Macross, have to be disciplined, clear headed, and patient. But the VF-25, and it's ISC and insane power, make it a platform that is capable of 'walking the razor's edge' so to speak. Alto's passionate style of flying brought out the full potential, and allowed him to stand head and shoulders above the competition. So, basically, as far as current mecha protagonists go, Alto is a diamond in the rough. He manages to be a badass while still carrying himself with the grace of a woman

From what we see in Frontier, it seems like they aren't using thermonuclear jets/rockets at all. I know that they probably are, but from the animation style and the... well, lack of noise, it seems like they are using some kind of electrical propulsion, like magneto plasma dynamic engines or something. If you look around for some videos of small ones firing, it actually looks rather like the VF-25's engine exhaust. However, MPDs aren't very powerful. I suppose if you had unlimited electrical power you could generate thrust sufficient for a fighter to use, but we're talkin about some serious current. Especially if you wanna sustain it. I have toyed with the idea of making an MPD for my senior project, but I'm not sure I have the skills to pull it off from a fabrication standpoint. Man, I shoulda gotten into metalwork BEFORE I got into electrical Say, I wonder if the -29 will have any extra armament packs. Oh wait, someone said it has VF-25 leg fast packs already... never mind. Still, rather have a Tornado equipped -25, or a -27. The -29 is just too ugly, even if it will have magic. This popped up as I was posting. The vernier thrusters for attitude control COULD be MPDs. Don't know if they are or aren't. Also, in Macross they use them pretty heavily in atmosphere. I guess they provide sufficient thrust to be used in forward flight in an atmosphere, which is all kinds of cool btw.

I'm sayin. Can you imagine Michel with a VF-27 and a sniper rifle? That would be an awesome rival for Alto.

AIM-9X upgrade is supposedly software only. The small warhead won't be useful against much aside from soft targets, but the key is versatility. I don't know much avout the Javelin, but a close friend was part of one of the two platoons to use them in the USMC so I can ask him. Javelin was phased out due to high cost, but they used them in Iraq. The SV-51 utilized anti ship missiles. Such missiles are powerful, but incapable of engaging fighters for myriad reasons. To stay on topic, my vote is with the VF-0. Its a simpler design, and during a time where VF technology was in its infancy, I think that's important. Posted via T-Mobile G2 Edit after some sleep: Sidewinders are also 10 feet long, and 190 lbs. There's nothing micro about that... The Sidearm was an interesting development. They don't produce them anymore (and the stores have supposedly been depleted), but the idea was that it would be used against SAM radars since having a large warhead wasn't necessary to knock them out. I'm pretty sure the Hellfire can do the job better nowadays, though, but the Sidearm had an advantage in range. In for reals life a 'micro-missile' isn't all that useful when one can do the job just as well. However, if you really wanted to make one, then why not go with the AIM-92 Stinger platform as a basis? It's small and lightweight... but not very powerful.

I disagree. If you were maneuvering close to a planet, sure, gravity would be an issue. But other celestial bodies with less mass than earth wouldn't cause much of a problem to navigation. Especially in a future where thrust-to-weight ratios are far above 2:1. As for control, the flight control system will handle it. It is there to keep you flying in a straight line regardless of external forces. Now, if you were close to something super dense, or some other strange circumstance, I could see it affecting your handling. However, why would any pilot in his right mind put himself in such a situation? I hate to reference Star Trek, but even they had a solution for small, quickly moving objects. I don't know how practical a 'deflector dish' is, but considering the current advancements in force-field-like technologies (plasma window, and cold plasmas in general) I can see a solution to this in the near (and especially distant) future. Of course, the large asteroids will, well, crush you no matter what, but this is something that is dependent on the exact situation. There is a lot more cover in space than just asteroid fields, so I feel my point still stands. Of course, it's hard to really imagine what the future will hold as far as technology is concerned. Sure is fun, though. I mean, if humans can figure out how to, for example, control gravity, then a lot of the problems go right out the space window.

Happy to oblige. I have to agree with you as far as deep space is concerned. In deep space there is no cover, so range is unlimited. However, I can't think of any good reasons to have a battle in deep space anyway Anyway, as for my reasoning. Most of this is based on political motivation/rules-of-engagement, but I think that will still be relevant in the future. If you see any holes in my logic, please feel free to point them out. Reason the first: Urban warfare. Or, any warfare that takes place near populated areas. This can be space colonies, space stations, what have you. In close combat like that, large lasers and other heavy weapons would be rendered useless. Reason the second: Tactics. If party B were to position their ship or squadron between party A's ship and, say, the aforementioned space colony, a directed energy weapon would be a liability, and most likely discouraged by the upper echelons (barring of course the possibility of a corrupt government). Reason the third: Cover. If the battle were to happen in something like an asteroid field (such as the one that perpetually surrounds Frontier for some reason), a directed energy weapon might not be the best choice. Unless it had unlimited power and could blast through any cover, and the ships sensors were unspoofable, but in practice this... isn't likely. I have to disagree. Well, I agree that they (generally) look cool, but I think they would be/will be far from impractical. Maybe in some situations they wouldn't be the best choice to use, but there are always going to be situations where finesse is paramount. You can't rescue hostages with a nuclear bomb... unless you're trying to rescue them from living. Here we seem to be in full agreement

Prior to the whole movie thing, I was sincerely expecting Michel to come back as a cyborg. I mean, to me it fit, since Brera went into action, but wasn't seen actually doing anything until much later. It was conceivable that he could pick up Michel from space, barely alive, and sequester him away somewhere for some later plan. Considering what happened to Brera and Grace back on that lil ship, this was actually feasible... and Alto's rival in the future would be cyborg Michel... Ahh, but this isn't the place for speculation or wishful thinking. I do wonder if Brera is gonna be Alto's rival in the next movie since they've gone all Kira and Athrun.

So, you're saying in the future strategic weapons will render tactical weapons useless? Kind of like how nuclear weapons have made the infantryman useless today? No offense, but have a little foresight. I can think of at least three situations off the top of my head where a large laser weapon would be useless against a smaller, more nimble target. And I haven't even got to thinking about it yet. Anyway, this is all off topic. The YF-29 does certainly seem uninspired, but I'll have to wait until I see it in action before I can really decide what I think about it. It does seem a little... poorly designed. From an aesthetic standpoint. I understand that Bandai owns Frontier, and their principle motivation is sales, but I expected something a little... better. Still curious about it, though. I'm sure it has some tricks up its sleeves. And I'm curious about battroid. Also, @SchizophrenicMC, what is that anyway?

I find it interesting that you can see the VF-25's visor from behind while it's in GERWALK mode. I noticed it toward the end of the Frontier movie. After slowing everything down to like 60% so I could actually see what was happening, I noticed that during Alto's missile dodging scene in the movie he stayed in fighter mode the entire time. At one point, he's even flying backwards whilst firing the Tornado's beam cannons. Also, at that speed everyone sounds like they're gangsters.

SV-51 is a result of Anti-UN spies travelling to the future and stealing the VF-27 blueprints. They brought them back and the engineers of the time reproduced it to the best of their abilities using current-day technology.

The F-22 only uses thrust vectoring for pitch control as the nozzles cannot vector independantly of one another. Some yaw control in the post-stall environment is accomplished by varying the engine thrust on an independant basis. From what I've seen the VF-1 can vector its nozzles/feet independantly. This would allow it to do both pitch and roll, but not yaw. Given that the engines are fairly widely spaced, yaw could be generated by varying the engine thrust with more efficiency that say the F-22. However, I'm sure they use vernier thrusters to accomlish yaw in space. I think a video game is a poor representation of the physics of spaceflight. Unless they make DCS: VF-1J Valkyrie. Though I still pick the VF-27, the YF-21 did have an interesting feature I forgot to mention - it can still be a fighter without its arms or legs. That's pretty damn innovative.

YF-19 for sure. I fell in love with that design many a year ago. Now, as for what I would prefer if this were a magical fantasy land and I had my own Valkyrie (and choice) I would go with either the SSL-9B or the BGP-01β, purely for effectiveness and versatility (respectively).

I was uncool and chose the VF-27. Now for my argument: The VF-27 shows major innovation and maturation of Valkyrie design. It pretty much has everything built right in - no need for additional packs or equipment. I have heard it said that this is a drawback for the -27's design, but that doesn't make any sense to me. What does it need? It is said to be comparable to the Super VF-25 already. However, until the advent of the Tornado pack the -25 had neither bells nor whistles to assist it in atmo. Like... where are the missiles? The VF-27 has plenty. Presumable, the beam weaponry on the -27 has greater endurance than the solid shell based weapons of other Valkyries. The -27's armament is versatile, powerful, and has (I think) good endurance. This makes it capable of performing more missions on its own with less support. As for accommodation, it has EX gear AND the virtual cockpit with feedback to the pilot greatly increasing maneuvering ability and efficiency. Now, it has been said this this is more a feature of the cyborg pilot, but I would argue that the pilot is a feature of the aircraft. The cyborg pilot is integral to the VF-27's basic operation. I know there are variants that can be flown by anyone, but the thing was built with cyborgs in mind. Given that having implants is common on Galaxy, this isn't a disadvantage at all. The pilot's greater physical endurance, remote operation capability (as seen in ep 21 of Frontier IIRC) and the feedback make this one mean machine. In contrast to the YF-21, the VF-27 has a reliable control system. I don't consider the -21 particularly novel because it was basically a failure. It required far too much mental discipline for just anyone to fly. And what happened when the pilot became emotionally unstable? Right... it fell right out of the sky. Then it drove a VF-11 into the ground because the operator thought it would be funny. That plane was way to eager to please and that's why it ended up getting dumped. If anything, the VF-27 is too powerful for regular usage. It would make for a fine special operations aircraft, though. Something where unconventional warfare is prevalent. Kind of like the scenarios seen by most mecha anime protagonists.

So, just make the above happen and you'll have your GERWALK. I am a proponent of mecha in the real world. But mostly because I am a proponent of spending time/money/other resources on things that I simply think are cool. IMO, the best use of bipedal vehicles with easy-to-use manipulator arms would be in search and rescue. I could go on and on about the pros and cons of man-shaped machines, but it's mostly been said before, and I don't feel like it right now. Best of luck to us all.

I'm a little worried they ran into the Vajra. Weren't they headed toward the galaxy's center, too? Somehow, I just don't think VF-4s would be up to that kind of challenge...

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. So, that again raises the question as to how ol' George got passed the rift to begin with. I wish visual storytellers would be more clear about stuff like this. At least pretend they care about the consistency of their stories. On a completely unrelated note, any of you cats use Multisim? I'm killing time as I run a simulation for an assignment, but man it's taking forever since I added a spectrum analyzer. Probably been running for about 15 mins and I've only gotten through 171 ms of circuit time...

I thought the shield went down as a result of Quarter's attack, thus allowing Battle Frontier to deliver the final blow. Otherwise Quarter's attack would've been pointless, right? Or is that what you meant and I just misunderstood?

I would like to see a story that attempts to resonate with issues that we face today. Namely, terrorism and religious differences. How to do this in Macross? Well, I think rather than trying to explain the mystery of the Protoculture (which is mysterious because even the writers don't know), they should use that ambiguity to create two distinct, in-universe schools of thought. Most of the people we have seen in the Macross universe have wanted to exploit the Protoculture's legacy to advance technology for the sake of preserving mankind. But now, as of the late 2050s, it seems as if mankind really isn't in as much peril as when the Zentraedi first showed up. Least of all, Earth. So, that said, I think a story that is based on Earth, about differences in opinion of how the Protoculture legacy should be used, would make for an awesome backdrop to the story. You could have some kind of Protoculture based religious beliefs, and as a result, radical believers that attempt terrorist attacks on the NUNS. Or something. It would pave the way for more tactical, as opposed to strategic, warfare in Macross. As well as more controversial issues than who Alto's gonna choose

I don't know. That's why I'm asking. As for the Macross Cannon not adhering to the, uhh, 'grand canon,' I just figured it was one of those Vajra dimensional rift thingies. Like the one that stopped the nukes (and kept the ships out) in the final ep of Frontier. This of course raises the question as to how the Quarter can drive right on through to deliver its recycled animation attack. Bear in mind even Battle Galaxy had to shoot its main cannon through the hole the Vajra created. This suggests even a Macross cannon cannot penetrate such a rift (from either side).