Sundown

Because they feel the crushing weight of dissapointment and need to vent for cartharsis-- in the vain hope that something might get changed. And failing that, they continue to elucidate their dislike mainly for their own amusement and to confirm their own opinions. And by they, I mean me.

I love how they spin it so that decals are now a fun, optional, limited-edition "customization" item, rather than be something that should be included in every box. I mean they've done the art, they've got them printed-- how hard would it be to let the printers run a little longer and throw them in every box? But of course, it takes even less effort to not do so, piss prospector buyers off, and drive up anxious, fear-based demand for the first-run. Profit! Megahouse, lesson one in marketing-- when running promotionals, do try harder to hide the fact that you're screwing your customers over for a cash grab.

It's a cynical marketing ploy, simple as that. Stickers wouldn't run the cost up much. But it's the easiest, cheapest thing they can do to offer/hold as ransom something that people would actually want, and then deny that to most in order to artificially create a "limited edition" without any real cost or work on their part. What's next, boxes only for the first run, while the rest come in baggies? Only the first run gauranteed to be rabbit dropping free?

For what it's worth, many of the comments saying the Legioss looked great were when we had yet to see the linkage, and when the pictures didn't show the leg transformation in fighter very well, or at least I didn't notice at the time, as no picture to date I've seen has shown the fighter mode from the bottom. I myself didn't say much then-- I appreciated the sculpt in soldier mode, but already had serious reservations about both the too-small intakes and the rounded styling. And from there, the more photos we saw, the more it was apparent to me that CMs was taking large, and in my opinion, wholly unneccessary liberties with the design. Added on top of my already-dislikes were fins that couldn't retract properly, improper arm transformation in linked mode, and finally, the improper transformation of the legs, reminicent to me of the compromises taken in 5-10 dollar toys in the 80's, which is in my opinion is unacceptable in a high-priced collector's toy. I didn't mind the linkage bar that some had issues with. And the tread itself is actually pretty well done, despite the complaints of some as soon as pictures were released. But as it stands, it is the most expensive transformable toy that I've encountered and had any remote interest in, and yet, it is the most innaccurate transformation wise, appears to take the most shortcuts engineering wise, and makes the most liberal interpretations sculpt wise of high-end toys. EDIT: Now that I look back, pictures of the Legioss in fighter mode weren't even available at the beginning of the thread when some were praising it. The fins in soldier mode looked like what we hoped to be a case of mistransformation. Sadly, that's not the case. If you like it, that's cool. There are a few things to like in the Legioss/Tread. Mainly the Tread. The Legioss has some style points lacking in the MPC version. But most others are seeing what they consider massive problems (and I tend to agree) not simply because they're slaves to line art. Also understand that when you both say that you respect the opinions of those who disagree, then immediately judge the opinions of those who take issue with the CMs Legioss as being "over-critical" by implying that they are somewhat inconsistent, it begs for a response like JsARCLIGHT mentioned. Sort of like this one. =P

I don't think it's merely the fact that the characters look different or that they look overmuscled that annoys people. It's that the characters don't look *good*. The overmuscled-ness is just the most noticeable change-- but it's done in a way that lacks the style and pizzaz of the characters' previous incarnations. They just look generically brawny, and lack the essence of what made the characters likeable.

I found the following in a comment beneath the picture on a site somewhere. "Word has it, Lucas also was dead set on "a certain idea" that Spielberg and Harrison Ford were against, but Lucas wouldn't change his mind. It came down to, "Well, this is our last chance, are we going to do it or not?" and they gave in." I cannot corroborate the validity of this, but it sounds... well... Lucas. If it were true, you'd think Lucas would have listened to the man who made *the* movie on alien encounters. Also the man who has experience with what some see as an inappropriate use of aliens into a movie of his own. If *he* thinks it a bad idea... *cues Hurin*

in soviet union, everything gets you! [/Yakov Smirnoff]

Maybe crumbly is a bit strong. But the broken windshields and the discriptions of "delicate" didn't give me much confidence in the toy's build quality.

It's so strange the the CMS Ride Armor and CMS Legioss/Tread are the opposite ends of the spectrum. The Ride Armor has a pretty darned good sculpt and accurate transformation for a pretty challenging subject. Yet it seems cheaply made and appears to be delicate and fiddly. The Legioss is the exact opposite, with bizarre deviations in transformation and yet looks solidly built. It's like CMS is schizophrenic or something. We know they're related only because both are rediculously overpriced. If CMS used a better looking plastic and it wasn't as crumbly as it sounds, I think I'd actually pay 60 for these.

The CMS Legioss/Tread doesn't just diverge from mere "line art accuracy". It makes major changes to how the Legioss transforms and gross alterations to how the parts are laid out in fighter mode and when linked up. It doesn't just reinterpret the design. It changes it for the worse for no good reason (so far as I can tell). The ugly intakes are a mere diversion from the line art. The ugly splayed out legs are either gross negligence, laziness, or a massive compromise for the soldier mode. Notice that we haven't seen a single shot of the Legioss from underneath. My guess is because it looks heinous, with the knee caps scooping outward at akward, ugly angles. The Tread actually looks pretty decent, as far as I'm concerned.

Actually, I would say that their appearances were what made those two productions bearable-- but at the same time, showed how those two productions were but a shadow of SDF by how awkwardly the characters were portrayed in them. M7 isn't silly because Max wore a dress. Max wore a dress because M7 is silly.

And in turn, through their alliance, the Zentradi saved the humans. And despite that glorious unity in a battle that was lost almost as much as it was won, inter-species tensions remained and broke down in the struggle to rebuild. Even looking back now, I'm surprised how much depth SDF has and resonates with human nature and reality for a show aimed at teens and young adults.

Doh! My bad. For some reason I thought Kawamori had designed the labors. Thanks for the clue.

Just looking at the Patlabors, noticing the head variations, and remembering Kawamori designed them makes me draw the following conclusion: be believes near-future mecha should feature simple, elegant head unit designs. Meanwhile mecha of the far future should feature head units with all sorts of clutter stapled on. The patlabors head units look striking similar to the VF-1S. One of them (not pictured here) also looks a lot like a VF-1A. Or maybe these were designed when he still favored simplistic, elegant designs. Most of the heads he designed later tended to be rather ornamental and busy.

Given that Mospeada licensees are crawling out of the woodwork, Yamato should just release their own Legioss and Tread... and Mospeada, for that matter, and be done with it. If anyone can make transformable toys and successfully incorporate as much "flavor" from the line art as possible, it's them. I don't agree with all their compromises, and I still think toys like the 1/60 VF-1 could stand improvement and incorporated some aesthetic changes I don't agree with, but they certainly wouldn't make innane decisions like tiny ugly intakes and legs that don't transform correctly just because.

It's not really the "shiny" that makes it look cheap. It's the semi-translucent appearance of the blue-green plastic and the prominant chest seam, and together, they give the toy a cheap, goopy look regardless of the design. The old 1/55 valks had plenty of shiny plastic, but that plastic was anything but cheap looking. Hmm. The CMS ride armor might look fantastic with a little paint to fix the translucent gumminess. As is, it looks like those asian soft fruit chew candies I just had the other day.

Actually proportion and sculpt-wise, I like the CMS ride armor. I just wish it weren't that small and didn't look to be that cheaply made. If it were twice the size, I'd gladly pay twice the cost.

I dunno. That shot of the Enterprise-in-construction sure seems like a lot of model or CG work for a mere teaser trailer meant only to make a suggestive point but won't actually be in the movie. Before someone posits that the shot itself might be in the movie but not the arc welders, the shot looks like the Enterprise is in atmosphere as well, and not in vacuum, given the plumes of smoke we see. So if that's true, then it sort of defeats any reason why the goofy looking arc welders won't be in the movie as well, outside of "Abrams probably isn't that silly, and hopefully they'll be replaced by workers that actually look like they belong to 300 years from now." I hope you're right, though the evidence seems to suggest that these are actually shots from the movie. Would be glad to be wrong though. I do have to say the Enterprise itself looks rather good.

Is it practical to build something the size and shape of the Enterprise in atmosphere? I honestly don't know. Seems like you would have to build pretty massive, awkward structures to support it if you were building it in Earth's atmosphere, given gravity, then somehow get it in space. Using skeletal stardocks in space for construction seem like a much better solution. Are Trek starships even atmosphere capable?

I'd argue just the opposite. A re-animated SDF would expose the story to those who can't get past the horrible animation compared to some of what's out there today. It would *serve* the story, especially for new audiences, instead of merely being eye-candy for its own sake. No self-respecting producer would do SDF just for eye-candy's sake. But a Macross-respecting producer might consider updating the animations out of a genuine love for the storytelling and designs. Unfortunately, In my cynicism, I don't think we'll ever find any of those-- instead, we'll find self-respecting producers who won't do an update unless they can radically change things and add things that they can explicitly call their own. That's just human nature for you. Both Predator and Aliens still hold up pretty well effects wise. They're not as flashy as some modern films but they still do a stellar job and don't get in the way of the story telling. 1/2 of SDF looks like utter crud, and looked bad even for its own time. The other half was fine as is-- and doesn't really need much in the way of updates.

I haven't voted. Primarily because I'm not sure I'd be okay with the loss of M+. While it's missing much of the charm of SDF, it did feature some great scenes, the YF-19 and 21 (awesome both for its YF-23 and Q-Rau influences), and I did really like the premise of the show, even if I didn't buy in to any of the characters the way I did Hikaru and crew. I did initially feel a fair amount of dissapointment in that M+ didn't feel like it completely belonged in the world established by SDF, but it still managed to be enjoyable. The rest I'd be pretty okay with losing.

Well, the difference here is Lucas updated Star Wars *badly*. I wouldn't have minded keeping some of the changes, like cleaned up shots and that sort of thing-- no one complains about those, but I'm undecided on the updates to the space battles-- there's a certain gritty charm to the older models that CG rarely reproduces. Anyway, the difference here between SDF and old movies is that SDF isn't just outdated-- with exception to a few key scenes, it was badly animated even in its *own* time. Anime is something you watch partly *for* the *animation*. And poorly done animation is going to be an obstacle to new viewers no matter what. Blaming viewers for not being sophisticated enough to get past the ugly drawings doesn't help anyone other than us to feel good about our refined (or forgiving) tastes. I believe things don't necessarily have to get worse with updates-- it's just that most attempts at updating up to now have tempted the creators to *add* things that didn't need adding, to put their mark on their work so that they'd be noticed rather than blend in with the existing footage. I think creators are less inclined to update and fix past works in a subtle way because there's less of a look-what-I-did factor to it. But it can (and I think in some cases, should) be done. Anyway, if SDF were to be updated, I would *not* get Kawamori as the man to do it.

What sort of magic is there in cheap, outsourced, badly drawn Korean animation? I only fear that it might end up turning into a musical number, entitled Zentradi Rocks.

Yeah, I sort of expected space suits and a space dock too. Silly Abrams.

The legs don't telescope? Wow. Wow. Just wow. It would have saved so much grief if they would simply telescope-- not to mention make for a much better link-up. The least they could have done was to add a hatch at the rear of the legs to allow the thighs to fold in and conceal the folding like Yamato did with their 1/48 hands.