Killer Robot

You know, I saw that image twice in two different threads before I noticed Max.

Sheryl hits on all seven counts there, and she's the standout for being a superstar in her prime right from introduction then only growing further as a musician from there. I have to count her music on top too: I agree with Mr. March that Kanno is the best composer of the franchise and that Macross Plus had amazing music, but on the other hand only one Sharon Apple song really stuck with me so I'll have to go with Sheryl.

Further, even if it was possible to spin it that fast, it would be fairly trivial to make an automatic cutoff that would interrupt the gunpod when the fighter was in danger of sending bullets into itself. A similar principle to the synchronization gear that old prop-driven fighters used to avoid shooting their own propellers, just that instead of a cam-driven cutoff switch you'd have to measure rotational speed through inertial sensors.

No need to make silly faces, a lot of people have said the same thing. In the original version of Macross, Mari Iijima was a native Japanese speaker among a cast of native Japanese speakers. In the ADV dub, she's the one person with a distinct accent among a bunch of native English voices: it makes her stand out and not for a good reason. If they'd tried to mimic the multicultural aspect of the Macross crew and passengers by giving others appropriate accents for example (admittedly, not easy to do well) it might have worked better. Don't get me wrong: it was a really cool thing to get the original voice for an iconic character to do the dub. It's even better for a role so strongly tied to its songs. It's just that however much I appreciate this as a Macross fan, when it comes to actually watching and listening to the show it's somewhat odd too.

Milia's comically large bodyguard from Macross 7. I hope I got the last name right at least, just needed to specify to not be confused with a certain other pilot.

I vote Michael Johnson, just since if you managed to stuff him in a VF cockpit he couldn't pull the stick back without hitting his knees.

That's another one of those tricky parts: airtight is a lot easier than watertight, if you plan on going far under water. That's why in the real world submarines have much thicker hulls than spacecraft. If 300 meters of leg are under water, the hull near the bottom is going to be under 30 atmospheres of pressure, as opposed to 1 atmosphere in space: that's something nearing 500 pounds per square inch. Further, on initial landing the Macross was briefly fully submersed and upright: that would be considerably more pressure still. Not saying it's unreasonable to have a supertech battleship like that survive such treatment, especially in a show with ten meter humanoids and fighter planes that transform into robots: more saying that the Macross holding water out when standing in the ocean is a much more demanding feat than just holding water in when floating in space. As for gravity, in the real world it is by one explanation an energy field that is a function of mass and carried by gravitons, in the same way that electromagnetic fields are a function of charge and carried by photons. The difference is, in the real world there is no known way to block that field, or to generate it without simply having a large amount of mass. Obviously, the Macross universe has a way.

From what I hear, the new manga seems to bear that out so far.

You might be onto something, but Bono's been accused often enough of putting more effort into being recognized as a philanthropist than he is into actually making a difference too. I see this as valid and important, and will also add that his rebellious nature and disregard for convention is even more of a standout in a rigidly conformist society like Japan. I just think he was taken too far: in a series that is fundamentally about people coming together Basara feels more like a person who stands still and lets the universe come to his song, and if it doesn't he sings the same song only louder. I think, or at least hope, that wasn't the full intent and purpose, but it's how the ink finally hit the cel.

That's the important distinction: protecting lives, ending fighting, those were afterthoughts as well through so much of it. When Basara would sing to the enemy, when they flew off he wasn't relieved the fighting was over, he was upset he'd lost his audience. Even the first time when it wasn't apparent they'd just keep coming back. Even getting him to help save the colony from falling into a star was almost as hard as getting him to fire missiles: fortunately, his singing was detected by Battle 7, but this was through no intention or expectation of his own, rather just an accidental fall into success. When he did have an audience, it's not like that necessarily meant anything either: he wanted them to come to him on entirely his terms too and if those weren't good enough then he got petulant about it: wanting people to listen to his songs, but not wanting to do take any steps to them. Sure, sure, Basara sang trying to move the mountains, but if the way he did it showed any love for the mountains, it sure wasn't a very sympathetic sort of affection. I do understand that Basara was meant as a free spirit and independent thinker, I just think that the execution, specifically the mix of personal inflexibility and plot contrivance surrounding him, severely compromises him being an admirable and understandable person in the end result.

That was sorta the thing, his persistence. He was placed as a "hate the military, hate fighting even when it's protecting people" sort of character who sings at the enemy in hopes it will work. Eventually, it does work: not because of his perseverance, because a new type of enemy that is literally harmed by his singing appears some 15 or 20 episodes after. Even then, it only works sometimes: other times it's an enemy only missiles can stop, though he still treats the people who fight with missiles with, at best, indifference. Sometimes it only works because the mad scientist made him special new gear to let his song accomplish something. He wasn't exactly communicative with the scientific crew either. Or anyone: he doesn't communicate much at all unless he wants to sing at them. I say "at them" and not "to them" as a deliberate distinction between his approach to music and that of other Macross musicians, importantly. His perseverance both as a person and at an artist is such that he doesn't really move or change or make connections with people: people eventually seem to get used to him because the plot makes him succeed, but that's an entirely one-sided process that feels more like some crazy Stockholm Syndrome than it does any true sort of mutual understanding. If I had to sum up Basara in a sentence it would be "Singing Kaifun saves the day!" That is somewhat of an unfair oversimplification, perhaps, but it also sums up what about him makes me want to bother writing a rant like this: between his aggressive, unsympathetic approach and his lack of ever making the critical Macross distinction between fighting when you're given no choice and fighting when peace is an option. He feels like a static character that would have been a roadblocking troublemaker had the plot not been carefully engineered to make him fall into greatness. Alto was a jerk, I'll grant, but he softened up and tried to communicate more; Isamu perhaps I forgive because there wasn't a war on during his aggressive thrillseeking, and because four episodes isn't as much time for character development as 49.

Macross 7 is enjoyable and worth watching, though I frankly wouldn't recommend it to anyone but an existing Macross fan that's either seen it all and needs a new fix, is a hardcore J-rock fan too, or thought the original TV series was a bit too adult and gritty. Some is stylistic: it's more a kids' show than other Macross installments, which isn't a condemnation, but I wasn't a kid when I encountered it so it meant it had less for me to appreciate as a sci-fi show or a war story than the original(which I also encountered as an adult.) I also did not care for Basara, but others seem to disagree, and in any case Mylene is as much the protagonist as he is so I could let him slide. Past that I found the music to be good, the characters entertaining, and the comedy well-executed. The part that's harder to get around is the length. In terms of plot, music, and budget, Macross 7 is 25-30 episodes of content in a 49 episode box. Further, the episodes which are mostly filler are all clustered near the front, making it hard to get started on the series. All in all, I'm glad I finally made it through 7 on my third attempt, but I can't give it a ringing endorsement either.

When SMS forces are privatized again after the war, Bilrer transfers Alto to a position where he will crash fewer VFs: More seriously, I expect the Zentradi on the fleet that had to give up their full stature once supplies got tight will macronize again to build their own city on the new planet. As for Sheryl, obviously with her health and spirit both recovered she'll go back to her music, but I wonder if she'll finish her piloting training as well. Depends on how much of it was just publicity stunt and how much was her personal desire to excel at something new. Or for that matter, get closer to Alto's first love. And think of Elmo now: finally he has two big stars as clients. He may die of joy within the year.

Misa's story probably got cut least from SDFM to DYRL because there was less of it to start. Not that she was one-dimensional or badly handled, I should clarifiy. Quite apart from the relationship dynamic Hikaru and Minmay both had a lot of growing up to do in their path from being two kids to a seasoned pilot and a famous singer/actress, and needed a lot of story attention showing how this transformed their lives. This needed time and a lot of stages. Misa on the other hand was young but she was a professional with a career and authority to start, and the transition from her role at the beginning and the end of the series was smaller: for her the personal story was learning to open up again and have something outside of her work. That was a lot easier to do inside of two hours of animation than what happened with the other two. What did get cut for Misa was her role as most central character involved in the political/ideological conflicts among the upper levels of human command, but that was less a character development engine for her in a direct sense, so while I know many people miss it in DYRL, it doesn't feel like a lacking in her part.

This reminds me of something else, in that SDFM Hikaru has a story arc beyond just his love life. It's also a long arc about his going from a talented kid that doesn't understand or like Roy's choice to be a military pilot, through becoming a soldier himself, through the responsibility of command, losses of friends and teammates, all sorts of experiences culminating in a seasoned and responsible veteran making the final realization that Minmay doesn't really understand him when she asks him to leave the military and throw away such a large part of himself. By contrast, DYRL Hikaru grows up from a young soldier to a young soldier that gets to personally gun down the big bad guy. Sure, almost every stage of Hikaru's development touches on the girls, but there's a personal war story/coming of age story in there as well as a relationship story, and it probably got hit even harder in the translation to a shorter film format.

From shots of the whole fleet, all the ships other than Island 1 are the same size. I would assume that a Zentradi island simply has fewer residents than a human island, and facilities sized for Zentradi.

That was the case with the fold wave amp, yes. The Cinderella's Horn project had two stages: the VB-6 was equipped with one for the anti-Vajra testing as seen in the relevant episodes, and Battle Frontier's stage was fitted with the final model for the presumed main battle against the Vajra, as seen somewhere around episode 18 or so when Luca and Grace are involved in planning it out and setting it up. These amplifiers turned out to use fold quartz: Sheryl's own ability to generate fold waves was detected because her earring's fold quartz served as a small amplifier on its own. For some who have wondered(like myself when I first saw it), that's why she could freely give her earring to Alto for the final fight: with the larger and more powerful amplifier on Battle Frontier she didn't need it to maximize her abilities. In light of this, if the Episode 12 speaker pods had fold-boosting effects I can imagine they were an earlier test of the technology, and would also fit in with how they were used along with that custom fold quartz based FTL drive Luca loaned them. On the other hand, I think that plot happened without the Galaxy conspiracy's knowledge (as Ranka going there forced a lot of plan revisions) and I don't know if anyone outside of the conspiracy proper knew Ranka's song had fold effects to boost yet.

It's also worth noting that in Frontier the speaker pods were nothing more than speakers that attached to VF hardpoints and otherwise just amplified sound in air like any normal speaker. In Macross 7 you had the gunpod that shot speakers, which were apparently more accurate than bullets and still worked fine after penetrating heavy armor; an enormous rocket-propelled speaker designed to totally rock out capital ships by the same principle, and giant speaker pod drones that launched separately from the ship to meet combiner style with valkyries and amplify the pilot's song-driven spiritual powers, in space. Sure, it was a nod to Mac7, but it was an enormously toned down one, in the same way that Ozma fought the Vajra to some Fire Bomber since it was the music that moved him but didn't literally unleash his inner Spiritia to drive off his enemies with pounding waves of Sound Energy. I could make jokes about a couple of teenagers showing up with an oversized sound system hooked up to their ride, but I can't really call it silly or out of place.

I vote

I also think a lot of people are putting a lot of literal weight and absolute truth into the final rant of an insane and obsessive villain. It's certainly reasonable to assume that the Protoculture might have learned of the secrets of fold-based technology by observing/imitating the Vajra's fold travel and communication abilities It's also obvious that the AFOS was Vajra-inspired in appearance, though other Protoculture technology and relics we've seen don't seem to be. For all we know, Grace was reading a lot into things to fit her own goals and world view. It's like some future archaeologist taking an "sharkskin" bathing suit and an old P-40 and talking about how 20th-21st century Earth culture "feared and revered sharks to the point of imitating their form." Which would have a seed of truth, but still be a long way off from implying that sharks were somehow central or worshipped in modern culture.

No, it was more him being sure that he knew what the fans wanted without listening to anyone who might tell him otherwise. Gungans because he still thought Ewoks were everyone's favorite part of the old trilogy, etc. Now, the EU books, those are a good example of taking what the hardcore fans were into and building it on itself with repeated one-ups, so you get all the Grey Jedi with triple-bladed rainbow lightflails, Boba Fett the invincible immortal, six species of catgirls, and endless floods of kewl gimmicky alien Jedi and newer and badder galaxy-smashing superweapons. I guess this does get a bit off track on a Macross discussion thread, but I mean it to distinguish between "creator getting too self-assured by success to be reined in" and "creator rolling with what the obsessive fringe of the fanbase wants to the cost of all others" which is more common in ongoing franchises, or in anime subgenres.

Lucas is the counterexample of a creator that's become successful enough that he isn't inclined or forced to listen to anyone at all for input. With no editors/studios/financiers/etc able to tell him "no, that didn't come out very well" or "tone that down a bit", his vision gets often buried in his own flaws and quirks. Similarly, past the first few books no one ever told Robert Jordan, "hey, could you trim the page count a bit?"and it showed. Creating a good fictional work is very typically a carefully balanced power struggle of the creator and the people tasked to steer the creator, and too little on either side can be disastrous. Now, this goes for fan relationship too: a story not written to appeal to fans at all may never have fans. On the other hand, when a story is written just to go with what the fans ask for, you end up with a bland, cookie-cutter otaku-pandering anime, that's about hitting all the fashionable cliches but has little real substance. You have to risk disappointing some people to not disappoint most of them.

I saw DYRL before I'd actually seen the TV series. It was pretty and all, and had some neat stuff, but it really wasn't amazing or life-altering or anything. It was a bit muddled, seemed to jump around a lot, and had characters I couldn't much get into. I almost forgot about it until some years later when I finally watched the TV series, and after that DYRL really came to life. I think the movie just builds itself entirely around being an amazing visual splash/reimagining for people already familiar with the story and attached to the characters from watching the TV series, and isn't really a work to stand on its own so much as a supplement to the original.

As a separate aside inspired by another thread, something I missed in Frontier was someone singing....badly. SDFM had Exedol singing "My Boyfriend's a Pilot", Macross 7 had Gigil, and by the end about everyone else, singing off-key Fire Bomber, then in Frontier, the closest you get is an offscreen single of Bobby trying to disturb everybody. What gives?

Even addressing Bilrer(Birla? Isn't romanization fun?) from an entirely in-universe perspective, he really has no resemblance to Britai other than having that right-side eye replacement. I would imagine that having a lingering obsession with Minmay isn't strange for older Zentradi: they are the ones who were won over by human culture, with Minmay as the prime face and name they could associate with the strange and compelling new experience. Mind, this puts him in the somewhat unbalanced role of an old man still stalking his first crush across the galaxy, but if anything we know by now that Zentradi are quite capable of becoming deranged fanboys. (Britai, by the way, didn't show signs of being one: he saw the power of human culture, allied with humanity in self-preservation, and remained loyal thereafter, but I don't recall him getting all obsessed with Minmay.) Really, given the surname I'd more wonder if Elmo is a son of, or out of the same production ancestry as, Britai, and if so what the elder Kridanik would think of the younger. Actually, scratch that: I want the next Macross series to be a comedy set in the 2020s, about Britai balancing his role of UN Spacy commander with the new position his long military experience had never prepared him for, marriage and children! Okay, I don't really want a Britai sitcom. But one episode would be hilarious, like one of the Triangler drama that's so big in 2059. P.S. - By contrast, in viewing Bilrer as the in-universe reflection of the aging Macross fan let us not forget that he used the wealth of his successful career on Valkyries and Queadluuns and that scale-model Macross. Look in there, even that tiny little captain looks so authentic!