vt102 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) So I have been reading through some of master Cheng's posts an came across his VF-1 super build... and he had listed in one post his layers of paint. Quote: Just to be absolutely safe my paint sandwich is as follows: [TOP] ModelMaster Clearcoat (laquer based) -desired finish Tamyia panel shading & airbrush weathering (water acrylic) Decals Oils thinned down for panelling (Mineral spirits based ModelMaster Clearcoat (laquer based) -gloss or semi-gloss Tamiya basecoat colour (water acrylic) [bOTTOM / plastic] I make sure that each layer is sandwiched with something that has a totally different solvent base so that I can limit the interactions between layers. End quote: So if I am reading it correctly.... looks like he does not use a primer before painting the first color coat??? I have also see others do the same on youtube. So i guess if i use the same Tamiya acrylic paint... no primer is needed on a plastic kit??? Also.... what pressure does the air have to be set at??? Mr. Cheng never disclosed that information??? Could he or someone else please lets me/us know??? And I see he does his shading towards the end. But which would be better??? Pre shading before the first color coat, or shading towards the end like Mr. Cheng? Any advice would be greatly appriciated. Edited October 8, 2012 by vt102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefuemon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Here's what I do, your mileage may vary. My compressor blows at a constant 15 PSI (Tamiya Revo). I prime using Mr. Surfacer 1000, thinned 50:50 One coat of paint (Mr. Color). Decals placed, and fixed with Mr. Setter. I've never used a clear coat. Wash done with Promodeler's Wash, Black. Yeah, pretty much opposite of what a pro like Cheng uses, but it suits my purposes fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vt102 Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Thanks for your tips.... I have seen the pro modelers wash, looks real simple to use, and an ease to clean up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I've seen acrylic stick to surfaces really well and some surfaces where it comes right off. On some resin, you don't need primers. I guess just test it to see how it reacts. I clear coat everything, especially if it transforms. It won't save the paint from constant friction against other parts but if it's something that gets handled a lot, like a transforming toy vs. a model that just sits there, then a little protection matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GU-11 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Never imagined I'd find myself giving any advice on airbrushing. Anyways, during my research on primers (if you can call random Googling "research"), I read that if you're going to spray primer from an AB, be sure to dilute it with lacquer thinner. Acrylic thinner won't work. Same thing when you're cleaning the AB. This is just a theory, but I'm guessing if the final clear coat were strong enough (FFP) it might be enough to hold the acrylic in place. I'm about to experiment on a piece of plastic, simply spraying a coat of acrylic to the surface, wait till it cures, and then hand-brush a coat of FFP and see if it holds the acrylic in place well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vt102 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Thanks! Cool to see everyones different tehniques. Let's see more of you modelers chime in! GU-11.... lets us know how it holds up. I know if you brush it on, it may be super shiny. It may be different when air brushing it. Edited October 9, 2012 by vt102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vt102 Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Mr. Cheng... if you read this thread... I was wondering if this is the clear you use? I have had this for years.... but i think I used it once on a car model. I am kinda confused, cause the label says... enamel system, but the description says laquer? Could you please let me know. I am kinda scared to use it though, because it looks quite yellow.... see...... Let me know..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wm cheng Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Been so busy with work (overtime) and Canadian Thanksgiving lately that I just got to your thread now - go thing you PM me or I would of never saw it. DO NOT USE THE CLEARCOAT YOU SHOWN ON THE ABOVE PICTURE! It is Lacquer based and lacquers are some of the "hottest" paints and should only be used on itself or under other stuff. By hottest, I mean its the most "reactive" to the undercoat which makes it highly durable, it reacts and "etches" into the plastic to make a very permanent bond, great for durability, but bad for the underlying paint. Acylics on the other hand is almost inert, and merely sits on the plastic surface, I use it because it doesn't smell and its really easy to clean up - but it can scratch off easily if not properly protected. Lacquers create a horrible fume/smell, its highly toxic when breathed and requires powerful thinners and solvents to clean. With everything its a trade off! Lacquer thinner will just about eat through any paint! including the Tamiya acrylic undercoat that you're clear coating. I use the ModelMaster Acryl Clear Coat (its acrylic based, but its fomulations are just different enough from the Tamiya stuff that its respective thinners don't interact with each other). I shoot between 25-35psi depending on what I'm painting, how thin I mix it, what effect I want to achieve (ie: I shoot 15-psi for the Alclad lacquer metalizer stuff but 35psi for the really thinned down post shading) - there's no real hard and fast rules, its something that you need to just experiment to see what works for you. I find that with a higher air pressure and thinner mixture, I can get finer pencil lines with my airbrush with minimal splattering - however some paints don't like to be shot so high and tend to dry when it hits the plastic creating a pebbling sand paper surface. Its mostly through lots of mistakes that I learn what works best, and every situation seems to be different - sorry I can't be more specific. Good luck though! Oh, I don't pre-shade as I find it takes too much paint to cover up the dark areas especially when you're using white. If you do too many coats, I find that it tends to obscure the fine engraved details, which I why I post shade, I use much less paint this way and the "dirt" looks like its on top of the paint as opposed to the paint being translucent showing the shading underneath. Plus if you clear-coat the undercoat of paint properly, then if you make a mistake and go too heavy with the post shade, you just wipe it off leaving a factory painted finish plane and start again - much harder to do that when you pre-shade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vt102 Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Thanks for chiming in..... I will not use that clear. The one you are talking about looks white-ish??? And I can use the acryl thinner to thin it out... right? That will not harm the tamiya color coat??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Mr. Cheng... if you read this thread... I was wondering if this is the clear you use? I have had this for years.... but i think I used it once on a car model. I am kinda confused, cause the label says... enamel system, but the description says laquer? Could you please let me know. I am kinda scared to use it though, because it looks quite yellow.... see......Let me know..... I used to use Model Master clear lacquers a lot before I switched over to exclusively Tamiya lacquers; and while it's labelled as a lacquer, I've found that it's significantly less "hot" than most other lacquers out there (like tamiya or mr. color). I've found that Model Master clear lacquer is safe over enamel paints as long as you make sure they're full cured (i.e. give it several days or more after it's dry to the touch). In any event, It's not something you should spray over Acrylics; I've done it and made it work but I wouldn't recommend it unless you know what you're doing or you're really crazy. (I think I fall under the second category BTW) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GU-11 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) @ VT102: I think WM Cheng meant you shouldn't use anything lacquer or enamel-based over acrylics, as the solvents of either will eat right through the acrylic paint. But painting acrylics over lacquer or enamels is perfectly okay. According to Tamiya's webpage, you can layer acrylic over enamel over lacquer, but never the other way around. Lacquer is the "hottest" and should always be the first coat of paint. After that is enamel, with acrylics being the most inert. In other words: Bottom - Lacquer Middle - Enamel Top - Acrylic BTW, I just tried hand-brushing some FFP over someTamiya acrylic paint, without first priming the surface, and left it for a day or two. Worked like a charm. Absolutely scratch-proof. Edited October 10, 2012 by GU-11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vt102 Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Thanks for the tips all. Now i need to buy some supplies. i still would like to hear other's tips and techniques Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesar Enrique Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I prime using Mr. Surfacer 1000, thinned 50:50... My friend, what kind of thinner (and brand) you use to thinn and airbrush with Mr. Surfacer 1000? Would appreciate your advice. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefuemon Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Mr. Thinner, of course! I like the Mr. Leveling Thinner a little better than regular Mr. Thinner. There's an additive in it that makes the paint dry just a little slower, so it levels out. For cleaning, I use regular old lacquer thinner bought at a local home improvement shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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