Virginroad VF-1D

[hellohikaru]

Virginroad

Max1J

What is the role of the virginroad VF-1D ?I though its suppose to be nothing more than a wedding limo so why carry a gunpod ?

And if they(Max & Milia) are getting tied why not have a combination of red and blue on the valk ?

Do you think they dispense with the standard practice of painting PL-Max Jenius and PL- Milia Jenius on the canopy with Groom- Max and Wife-Milia(haha just kidding)

Edited September 17, 2003 by hellohikaru

[Gundamhead]

To this day, I still say it should be a VF-1J 2 seater. It only operated in fighter mode for a ceremony. Much easier for the SDF crew to paint a nose section for Max's Valkyrie than an entire Valkyrie. It simply makes better sense. The animation I assure you will yeild nothing definate other than it has 2 lasers on it's head in fighter. Just my rant.

[Skull Leader]

Hate to burst your bubble, but there's more to back it up than that. In the TIAS book #7, there is a sketch set aside just for that valkyrie and it plainly says "VF-1D" as used in the "Virgin Road" episode.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

maybe the Macross expected trouble and sent the gunpod along in case the Zentradi decided to try something during the wedding?

[Lightning]

maybe the Macross expected trouble and sent the gunpod along in case the Zentradi decided to try something during the wedding?

more than likely...

[Gundamhead]

Hate to burst your bubble, but there's more to back it up than that. In the TIAS book #7, there is a sketch set aside just for that valkyrie and it plainly says "VF-1D" as used in the "Virgin Road" episode.

No burst bubble. I've seen the picture, it's tiny. Save for the triangle in the center of the head, it could be a 1J. It's lasers are even centered like a 1J. However, it still is not a VF-1D. It is a VF-1D head and nose on Max's VF-1J. The VF-1D has a different chest.

My little theory is still the most reasonable explanation. The only thing I can't figure is why they'd need to change the head. Surely a 1J would handle the same computer functions as a trainer. Especially if it's gonna be flown by the ships ace.

[Terrance Wong]

Consider how the Hasegawa kits are built. Maybe the head is attached to the cockpit section?

[Skull Leader]

but it *SAID* VF-1D.... straight from Kawamori at Studio Nue... what more proof do you need??? And unless I am mistaken, the picture was an overhead view. What book are you looking in????

[Gundamhead]

Yes it states VF-1D in the picture and in the caption. (Macross This is Animation) I'm not argueing that. But the chest is not a VF-1D chest. It is clearly a A-J-S chest so it's not really entirely a VF-1D. It's gotta be Max's VF-1J with a 1D head and nose. Even Hasagawa's kit shows the standard chest, and not the 1D's chest.

My point was it is Max's Valkyrie for his wedding. Which scenario makes more sense:

1. The mechanics painted a two seater nose blue and stuck it on.

or...

2. The SDF crew painted an entire VF-1D for Max's wedding. Then repainted it after.

My gripe is why change the head too? When Roy saved Hikaru and Minmay, he didn't have to take the head, just the nose. Which is why I still say it should have been a VF-1J two seater.

Kawamori and Studio Nue are not perfect either. In Kawamoris own Design Works there is a VF-1A fighter under the VF-1J caption. They screw up just like every body else.

Edited September 18, 2003 by Gundamhead

[hellohikaru]

Did they change the head ?I though the VF-1D had 2 head lasers like the 1J. But it does seem like the single seat VF-1 chestplate as mention by gundamhead.

[Skull Leader]

nevermind, it isn't worth the trouble

Edited September 18, 2003 by Skull Leader

[Gundamhead]

B)

[Isamu Atreides 86]

why is the chest normal? anime magic. an animation error. no biggie.

<_<

[Gundamhead]

It's in the animation and Studio Nue's official line art pictures. So it ain't accidental. My complaint is simply it should be a Vf-1J head.

[hellohikaru]

I will take the trouble

Maybe they really did repaint a Max VF-1D just for the occasion after all he is their darling ace pilot.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

plus it was a huge event. its not every day that an ace human pilot marries a hot alien ace.

[Skull Leader]

Ok, I couldn't stand it anymore, so I had to drag out the book and look for myself.

On Page 66 of TIAS #7, the picture CLEARLY shows that the chest plate goes straight across...ALA VF-1D.

The straight chestplate (with the small middle-part), added with the head unit and the length of the cockpit ALL point at a VF-1D.... there is nothing about that that suggests it would be a VF-1J. As for having a gun? Remember.... they *did* take that valkyrie into combat.

I know it seems like a lot of effort just to repaint a whole aircraft for this occasion, but remember, it was the FIRST Human/Meltrandi wedding... And the crew of the UNS Macross certainly spared no expense.

So it WAS a VF-1D... and I think it was justified, given the occasion. Paintjobs probably didn't take too long on the Macross anyhow.

[tetsujin]

My point was it is Max's Valkyrie for his wedding. Which scenario makes more sense:

1. The mechanics painted a two seater nose blue and stuck it on.

or...

2. The SDF crew painted an entire VF-1D for Max's wedding. Then repainted it after.

Realistically? Scenario 2, hands down. At some point in the Valkyrie's development they spent some time trying to adapt the design to make a 2-seat version. They created a new nose section with a new cockpit, new head, and the sensor and fire control systems to go with it. That took some work, developing those new systems, making it all work together, still transform properly, and be safe. So their options for the wedding day are either figure out how to put together a whole new type of 2 seater valkyrie using parts from the 1D and 1J, and verify that the result is safe to use, or take one of the 2 seater valkyries they already had, and repaint it. I can't imagine they ever had any need to temporarily convert a normal valk into a 1D, so on the one hand you have a project of reasearch and development, followed by testing, and on the other hand you have the combination of two established, proven technologies: the VF-1D which had already been in service for around a year, and paint.

This is all assuming that it's not trivial (and proven safe) to take the nose from a VF-1D and stick it on a VF-1J. I can't imagine why it would be trivial, if it's not something they needed to do it's not something they would have specifically worked into the design plans or testing schedule.

[Gundamhead]

No way is scenario 2 realistic, and let me try to explain why. Of course the technology is interchangeable. They all share the same airframe. They were expecting a war with a alien race, I'm sure they decided everything would be as easy to swap parts for maintanence demands to keep them flying as long and as easily as possible. Fighting 50' aliens would be rough on equipment. The Valkyries and Destroids are based around the compatible/interchangeable design idea. I'm sure if they designed the nose section to be 'rescued' and slung in place of a gunpod that making a two seater compatible with a one seater would be no big deal. The control linkage would be attached at the airframe. The trainer controls would be slaved to the pilots controls in the two seater nose section, not the airframe.

Time was also a serious factor and repainting a whole Valkyrie would require huge amounts of prep time. They would have to disassemble a large portion of it just for paint. Prep and paint an entire Valkyrie or a small section of a nose that can be removed in a matter of minutes.

It would be the fastest way to prepare it for his wedding. I'm sure they wanted to have it before the next attack came and possibly killed either Max or Millia. The SDF was losing lotsa people at the time to constant attacks. That would've ruined the opportunity to show the aliens humans were good and offered peace, and life with a hot babe, a alien alternative to a alien race that was bred for war and separated by sex.

The crew would have simply added the painted 2 seater nose to his aircraft. It would not need to change to battroid, but could handle Fighter and Gerwalk perfectly fine. More than enough compatiblity/capability for the ship's ace and 1 time occasion.

I know about TIA being a VF-1D. The animation and lineart though is not a standard 1D chest though. It does flow straight across. But it clearly and prominently does have the standard chest stripe and none of the 4 triangular patches on it. So it isn't a normal 1D chest.

[Skull Leader]

You're making a typical but invalid generalization, Gundamhead.

"All valkyries that have triangular patches are VF-1Ds, therefore there cannot be VF-1Ds that do not have triangular patches." <_<

Well, maybe and maybe not, but Who's to say that the patches are aren't still there and just painted over? You're making this way harder than it has to be. They couldn't just swap out cockpits precisely because of the difference in the fuselage/torso. The standard single-seat fighters fuselage couldn't be rigged to handle a two-seat cockpit (at least, as they are designed in the TV series), because the nose would stick out half again further than it usually does (thereby unbalancing the aircraft)

The color of the triangular patches is the same thing as the angular stripes of skull squadron.... it's purely a cosmetic thing. More to prove the point, in the SAME EPISODE, we see VF-1Ds in Cannon-fodder colors. I saw no black patches on their chests either. <_< In fact, take a look at the Hasegawa schematic that Hikaru posted above.. you can see the patches on the Max-paint scheme... just not colored "black".

Just because it had two head lasers, a gun, and a paint scheme that doesn't match up, are NOT solid reasons to claim it should be a VF-1J. People tend to forget that the VF-1D saw as much action as the rest of the model types (NOT just a trainer, folks)

End of sermon, I think I've laid this one to rest.

Edited September 19, 2003 by Skull Leader

[Phyrox]

I think it is accepted that Hasegawa VF's are the most accurate representations, so...

Take a Hasegawa VF-1J and build it up leaving the forward fuselage/nose.

Now take a Hasegawa VF-1D forward fuselage/nose and try to mate it to your VF-1J. If this works then your theory of "interchangablility" will gain some support.

The only problem is it won't work, due to the main fuselage of the VF-1D being designed differenly to accomodate the larger cockpit.

So, seems like it would be infinitely easier to paint a VF-1D airframe than to rip off its nose, connect it to a VF-1J, then modify the fuselage and spine.

Aircraft get total repaints all the time for special occasions: Tigermeet, anneversiary, commemoration, etc.

[Phyrox]

Opps, here is a visual:

[Gundamhead]

Geez... I said it should have been a 1-J. I'm not arguing that it isn't a 1D, just that it's not a normal 1D. Every picture and line art of the VF-1D has those 4 patches and the straight fold line except Max's.

Hasagawas represent the movie version VFs, not the series version VFs. They're also the most sleek looking, but not necassarilly the most acurate. If a Hasagawa VF Fighter is converted into a Gerwalk or Battroid they look anorexic. Every model and line art of the VF prior to Hasagawa is totally interchangeable. Like I stated earlier they'd have to be to stay flying and fighting as easily as possible. Ease would be intergchangeabl parts and technology.

Not one aircraft that gets a total repaint is done quickly in reality. They all take a fair amount of time. It would be far more believable from a merely paint job POV in the series, that they painted a 1D nose sections latter half blue and the nose cone white, than they painted the entire Valyrie, customized it and stenciled the warnings back. And that's assuming the paint they use dries quickly. Max's scheme is pretty complex, a couple of days tops for a nose or well over a week for a entire Valkyrie? Keep in mind that Max and Millia get hitched very quickly.

The nose never gets ripped off, they open a few access panels on the chest and slide it off. Took Roy what, less than 5 minutes during combat? And simply stuck it where the gunpod would go. That implies a massive level of interchangeabilty. ISO 2000 to the extreme. Hasagawas version implies a different airframe for VF-1Ds only.

It also always irked me too that everybody considers the VF-1D a trainer only. That's kinda part of my arguement.All VFs would be interchangeable with crew and parts in order to realistically keep up with deaths, damage, and maintanence. We were only told the story of 5 pilots, Max, Millia, Roy, Hikaru, and Kakizaki. Who got Max's 1A, who got Hikaru's 1J etc. That stuff never got mentioned but it's a fair assumption to say other pilots took them, or they got recycled to other operatianal VFs as parts. Supplies on the SDF were always at a premium.

[Skull Leader]

well, everyone is allowed their opinion..... right or wrong.

[Nied]

Every model and line art of the VF prior to Hasagawa is totally interchangeable. Like I stated earlier they'd have to be to stay flying and fighting as easily as possible. Ease would be intergchangeabl parts and technology.

Actually no. Phyrox's visual is pre Hasegawa line art and it clearly shows that the 1D's nose sits much further back than the single seat models.

Not one aircraft that gets a total repaint is done quickly in reality. They all take a fair amount of time. It would be far more believable from a merely paint job POV in the series, that they painted a 1D nose sections latter half blue and the nose cone white, than they painted the entire Valyrie, customized it and stenciled the warnings back. And that's assuming the paint they use dries quickly. Max's scheme is pretty complex, a couple of days tops for a nose or well over a week for a entire Valkyrie?

Hardly aircraft get ad-hoc paintjobs in the field all the time, especially in the Navy. And that's on a cramped carrier with very little room to work. It's not hard to imagine that given the larger amount of space on the Macross, and maybe a good robotic spray booth, they could have a Valk re-painted in a matter of hours.

It also always irked me too that everybody considers the VF-1D a trainer only. That's kinda part of my arguement.All VFs would be interchangeable with crew and parts in order to realistically keep up with deaths, damage, and maintanence. We were only told the story of 5 pilots, Max, Millia, Roy, Hikaru, and Kakizaki. Who got Max's 1A, who got Hikaru's 1J etc. That stuff never got mentioned but it's a fair assumption to say other pilots took them, or they got recycled to other operatianal VFs as parts. Supplies on the SDF were always at a premium.

THe VF-1D isn't a trainer, but it's also not a VF-1J with a different nose and head. It has a completely different forward fuselage as well. To convert a 1J into a 1D you'd have to replace everything forward of the wings to make it compatible. When you consider that all that would be left of Max's orginial Valk would be the wings, backpack, legs, and arms a complete repaint of a VF-1D doesn't sound so unreasonable.

[Major Johnathan]

Did Kawamori even have a hand in that episode? I know the episode in question is one of the worst animated in the whole series, I understand they sub-contracted to a less talented studio sometimes. Chances are, those animators just winged it, I doubt they cared about technical accuracy. They probably looked at it as 'just draw max's fighter but it needs to be a two seater so stick a vf-1d nose on it.'

But that's meaningless Macross trivia... what I want to know is why didn't they let Yellow, even once, use his way cool Blowsperior wrist mounted retractable blades? I mean they went out of their way to include them in the 1/15 and 1/12 model designs...

[Skull Leader]

It WAS animated by animefriend, however... there was official lineart drawn by Kawamori in TIAS#7 of a Max-style VF-1D... virtually any episode that involves Max or Milia was done by Animefriend (not all but most)... but as you see, there WAS evidence backing it up.

Mospeada has nothing to do with this thread.

[Gundamhead]

But Kawamoris's line art is still not a standard VF-1D.

Seeing the Blowspeariors blades would've been cool too.

[bsu legato]

If the Macross went to all the trouble of a huge wedding ceremony, an honor guard of Battroids for Max's flyby and endless hours of television coverage, not to mention the cheesy laser light show, why is it so difficult to beleive that they quickly repainted a VF-1D to Max's colors? It makes more sense than somehow retrofitting a back seat into a standard VF-1J.

[Gundamhead]

The show implies that the wending happened very fast. The cermony, would be a bit difficult to plan. The cake would be really tough. The military honor gaurd a cinch. The laser show easy. But the paint would need a lot of prep time and time to dry.

I never said retrofitting anything, just sliding a VF-1Ds nose on Max's plane makes more sense than repainting an entire Valkyrie.

[bsu legato]

I never said retrofitting anything, just sliding a VF-1Ds nose on Max's plane makes more sense than repainting an entire Valkyrie.

But I think this is what Skull Leader and the others have been trying to say. The 1D nose just doesn't "slide" on. It has it's own unique chest plate. So now you've replaced the nose and the chest plate...what about the nose & chest mounting hardware? Are they compatible, or do you have to retrofit 1D hardware onto a 1J. And while we're at it, what about the 1J head and neck assemblies. Do they function with the 1D chest? I doubt it, since the 1D has no "notch" at the neckline. So now you're retrofitting some more hardware. And while we're at it, does this stuff simply bolt on, or is there cutting and welding involved?

Now, does this still seem easier than just putting a quick 3 hour paint job onto a VF-1D? It's a big enough pain in the ass trying to interchange stuff on cars between different model years, I'd hate to imagine how much of a pain something as complex as a Valkyrie would be.

[Gundamhead]

I understand, but Max's VF-1D is different in the line art. And my thinking was that the 1D nose section would be perfectly compatible with Max's 1J Valkyrie as long as it never had to change to Battroid. It was after all just for a 10 minute flight.

[Phyrox]

my thinking was that the 1D nose section would be perfectly compatible with Max's 1J Valkyrie as long as it never had to change to Battroid...

But that is just where you are wrong.

The line art I posted, the Hasegawa instructions/kit, and everything else points inextricably to this conclusion.

[Gundamhead]

But the VF-1D Max flies for his wedding is different than the standard VF-1D in the line art. He also never changes to Gerwalk or Battroid. It's pretty fair to say Max favors Battroid, so why'd he stay in fighter? If it was his VF-1J modified with a 1D nose, then he couldn't transform.

[Nied]

The show implies that the wending happened very fast. The cermony, would be a bit difficult to plan. The cake would be really tough. The military honor gaurd a cinch. The laser show easy. But the paint would need a lot of prep time and time to dry.

I never said retrofitting anything, just sliding a VF-1Ds nose on Max's plane makes more sense than repainting an entire Valkyrie.

Most modern paints dry in 12 hours. One would think that with overtech they could cut that time in half. I find it hard to beileive that a service crew couldn't find half a day to prep and repaint a Valkyrie, but that they could find the time to replace the fuselage of one. One is very simple and requires very few man hours (remember drying paint doesn't need anyone to do anything) while the other is rebuilding an already complex peice of machinery.