magnuskn

I´ve participated for a few months in intense trench-warfare on Animesuki ( Sheryl ganbatte! ), so, yeah, I know what tsundere means. And while I agree that both of them are exhibiting behaviours consistant with that archetype, it´s a bit too easy to just handwave their behaviour with a "tsundere" label. I like some deeper analysis on it, which I´ve tried to bring up. Actually, I´ve been mostly repeating stuff others already said on Suki, so it´s not as if I am very original on this. And my comment on "disrespect" was because you used repeatedly that " " smiley about parts of my post, which is not exactly a sign of someone taking his conversation partners opinion seriously. At least not when the parts are trying to be serious ( as much as that gets to be so on the nets... ) analysis of the Sheryl X Alto relationship.

I didn´t see her having a "dishonest guise" at all. She was being herself all the time... it is only that she didn´t owe as much of her fame and status to herself as she thought. But that still doesn´t make her own hard work worth any less. Prior to the relevations by Grace, she built up her persona on her own successes. That they now have come under attack don´t make her prior behaviour less genuine.

Any conversation with you would work better if you would show any capacity of being respectful of your conversation partners opinion. She has a go-getter personality. Still, being in love is as new a feeling for her as for any other teenager who never has been in love before. And, as I said, being in love makes you dependent on the other person, because s/he has to return your feelings to be a relationship instead of a one-sided longing. So I saw it as her shying back from committing to her own feelings and a certain fear of being rejected ( especially as Altos expression wasn´t really easy to read after his initial shock. ). I am troubled in describing psychology at this level. People's behaviour is a mixture of inter-related internal and external factors. Will we see another part (a side or a core) of Sheryl, that is a part of Sheryl that was always there, or another Sheryl, that is she can no longer be the person she was? Completely agreed. It wasn´t me who said that ( points at Morpheus ).

I´ll bow out of any further discussion with Mercurial Morpheus. It´d take far too long to dissect everything, and it only would provoke more of the walls of text. Maybe when I´m not working full-time anymore. Talk about being hit with a brick of text...

Okay, with even more detail, then. Alto has had a problem in the past episodes of not knowing if Sheryl was serious about him. Her whole strong and playful personality created the impression in him, that she considered him a plaything ( as best evidenced in her calling him her "slave" during episode eight ). He also was incredibly oblivious that she *is* interested in him in any further way than someone to annoy and tug around, also quite obvious when Michael asked him about just that, also in episode eight. Sheryl, on her side, has been interested in Alto first because he didn´t treat her as "Sheryl Nome, the Galactic Fairy", but as just another girl. Her personality doesn´t admit to any weakness ( as per her often-repeated "I am Sheryl! Sheryl Nome!" mantra ), so she didn´t want to admit to herself that she is falling in love with Alto, because being in love also means being somewhat dependent on the other person. That is why she played her kiss with Alto off as just a joke, which in turn just solidified Altos opinion that she is just playing with him. Hence how he reacted with being stand-offish to her "summons" in episode 11, when she told him of her present for his birthday. After that events conspired to delay any further romantic development to now. It´s clear that Sheryl since then has really fallen for Alto, but so far Alto hasn´t had a chance to really talk with her about anything since then. Sheryls downfall has opened new avenues in her characterization, but personally I would have liked her keeping more to her strong personality side, and the two of them working it out from there. As the writers teared her self-image of the self-made pop idol down, we will get another side of her. But at least the two of them will finally have the chance to have a long talk. If the writers don´t continue with the plot interrupts.

Again: Your words. Not mine. You are interpreting things into my response which I haven´t even said. I said: Where did I say that you hate women? Where did I say that you want to see them broken? I did disagree with the "putting her into her place" quote you yourself said, because that is an attitude which I personally do not share and it that particular case even strongly dislike. Although I have a good friend who wants a girl who is dumb, so that she always agrees with what he says. That wouldn´t work for me, because I want a strong, independent woman for me. Doesn´t mean that I think that his choice is somehow "wrong", it just isn´t my cup of tea. Yeah, not exactly. You cited various things about her personality and behaviour which seem to me the signs of a strong personality. If you really, really want, I´ll cite them back at you... again. Corrected since then. The board wouldn´t post my message, so I clicked the "Add reply" button once more. Since I had to get going ( couldn´t keep occupying the computer of my friend when wanted to play a battleground in WoW ), and the board wouldn´t refresh, I assumed my replies had been lost.

Hey, it wasn't me who said that, I was quoting you. Here you go: I find it somewhat amusing that you write a treatise on how you are not mysoginistic. I´m at a friends so I won´t even try to go through all of what you wrote with a fine comb, but I can safely say that everything you find annoying and grating with Sheryl is something which I like about her. Actually, it is simply that my opinion is more nuanced than I have put forward so far. Again, I don´t have the free time right now to explain fully. But to try to make it short, Sheryls strongness has been a hindrance in getting nearer to Alto in the past, because she didn´t admit to herself that she liked/loved him ( as is most easy to see in episode 10 after she kissed him ). Now, the situation has changed very much lately, she really has fallen in love with him and there may have come something of it, if we wouldn´t have had so many occasions interrupted by plot events. But I think that losing her complete confidence in herself may break down that barrier.

Oh, believe me, as a Sheryl fan ( who loves her strong personality... I don´t feel threatened by strong women and don´t feel they need to be "put in their place". ) it was very painful to watch her fall into despair. But it was necessary to further develop her character and as someone who also loves good characterization it was a necessary step. Also, it helps her charging up her meter for her supermove. Alto-hime will stand no chance! Sheryl ganbatte!

Now, that would make Sheryl incredibly excitable. In any case, Alto panicked when she, erm, moaned into his ear. And to Max Jenius, lighten up, man. It´s all in good fun, and we are not all young whippersnappers who should get off your lawn. I´m 33, myself.

Wait, making Togo stick his head into an oven isn't what this thing is all about? According to whom?

Well, if you read my whole post then you have seen that I postulated a hypothesis much like your own. Still, a lot things don´t add up yet. Neither hypothesis can be disproved, because we are missing lots of facts. It all depends if the writers want to share more of those hints with us, but if they wouldn´t do that, why raise them in the first place?

I´m at a loss how they are going to tie up all the introduced plot in only seven episodes, so count me in for an extension or second season. The only thing which could possibly upset me about this would be that Sheryl-sama would probably have to get Alto a second time, unless they focus on a new love triangle.

Look on www.tokyotosho.com for subs, there is the one from gg and now the one from Lunar.

Well, let´s see if I can cook up something which sounds half-way probable. ^^ - Sheryl is related to Mao Nome. Her last name and her blood type ( Alpha Bombay ) make this a vague, yet not improbable connection. - Sheryl looks very identical to Ranshe Mei. This could be simply be put down to inattention of the character design team, but so far they have given us very distinct characters and the show has made very few errors in its storytelling. So I count this as a probability that Ranshe Mei is somehow related to Mao Nome, but not Sheryls mother. - In that vein, Sheryl clearly is not a direct member of Ranshe Meis family, as she wasn´t shown in any picture or flashback featuring Ranka. - If Sheryl was a relative of Mao Nome, it stands to reason that she was on the 117th Research Fleet. Obviously, that would make her a survivor of the self-same. My presumption is that she was transferred to Macross Galaxy as a refugee. There she landed on the street after some time, because nobody cared much about a refugee from another fleet. - This also would be an explanation how she got infected with the V-Type disease, maybe she got wounded by a Vajra during the attack on the 117th. - As a counterpoint, Sheryl remembers herself being a lonely orphan on Galaxy, as can be seen in her short memory flashback during episode 6 ( picture a few posts above ). This memory could have been faked, as it was shown very stylized. Although it could very well be argued that it is a traumatic memory of her past. - Grace could very well have been watching Sheryl, waiting for the perfect moment to offer her everything Sheryl could have asked for. Now, because I don´t want to only present my side, I´ll take on some points made by people who don´t like my little hypothesis and some doubts of mine about it. - Sheryl is Fairy-9. Therefore it stands to reason that there were eight other "Fairys" before her. Nothing is known as to their identity and their final fate. Although it probably wasn´t a nice end. : - Sheryl could well have been infected with the V-Type disease by Grace after she was picked up in the alley. Only because she was checked into the hospital doesn´t mean that she already had the disease then. - The childhood memory of Sheryl has been deemed an "obviously fake" one by some people in the past. As it is a very stylized one, it could well be so. - Sheryl thinks her earrings are keepsakes from her mother. Now, how would a street urchin possess obviously valuable earrings such as those? In Sheryls flashback in episode 18 we see the earrings as they probably were given to her by Grace. - Those hints taken together could very well indicate that Sheryl really *was* a street urchin, but got a personality implant, maybe a cosmetic touch-up ( to look more like Ranshe Mei, for whatever reason... maybe Grace had the hots for Ranshe? ) and then infected by the V-Type disease by Graces faction. That also could explain why her last name is "Nome" and maybe even how she got Alpha Bombay blood... I wouldn´t put it past Graces faction to be able to exchange a persons blood type. If it is that, expect even more soul-searching from Sheryl as soon as she gets wind of that. Her whole identity would be fake.

Ah, that was me with the photos. And the memory Sheryl has of being a child on Macross Galaxy ( in episode 6, when Alto brings her back her earring ) shows her watching as a crowd of people march by, with a teddy in her hand. She isn´t shown as a street child in that scene. In fact, here´s the picture: Some people said back then that the memory clearly is fake, which well could be. Ah, damn, even I don´t know how this all fits together. We´ll have to wait if the writers decide to revisit the whole thing.

We obviously have different ideas what constitutes good storytelling, as I´ve noted many times during the time I´ve spent here on the forum.

Well, I call it "foreshadowing". There have been lots of little hints that there is more than meets the eye. If you´d like to ignore them for a simpler plot, that´s a matter of taste, I guess.

It serves, I guess. Their looks are mightily similar, as I´ve said before. Now, I´ve inched away from the "Shery = Ranshe Meis daughter", because obviously Sheryl wasn´t shown in the flashbacks and pictures to be in Ranshes family. Also, she should have Zentran blood if she´d be descended of Ranshe Mei, as someone slyly has noted. However, those similar looks are still suspicious. I think something *is there*, but without further information I cannot put my finger on it. Of course the designers could well have made Ranshe Mei so visually similar to Sheryl by error, but that still seems unlikely to me. They haven´t been sloppy so far in the series, why exactly here?

Well, that´s pure fanservice. You could as well then put Sheryls ultra-skimpy costume during her concert in there. I´d prefer we stick to scenes between characters, if we are going with "sexual content".

Pretty much the most overtly sexual scene in Macross, beside the almost-rape of Mylene by that woman in M7 Dynamite.

Well, actually Ozma recognized Brera only because he saw his harmonica. Tsuchiro on Animesuki was so nice to find for me the following image: Look at her blood type.

Now, if that would look anything like Sheryls hair-colour, maybe I could concur.

I´m with the group who found the scene in the locker to be quite... interesting.

Well, I just got a confirmation that Sheryls blood is the Alpha Bombay type, so I put that out there for consideration. As for Ozma, he didn´t recognize Brera, either, didn´t he?

Oh, that´s easy. By the time Sheryl ended up in the slums, Mao already was dead, gone down with the 117th Research Fleet. Shery could have been a refugee of the 117th, gotten lost because nobody cared about on Galaxy ( which doesn´t seem to be such a great place to live ).