ChronoReverse

Eh? I thought canards simply provided pitch control. They're movable for that purpose aren't they? Even if they're being used to increase maneuverability, they can still be configured for stable flight if need be (unless they're like the tiny little ones on the YF-19). In any case, a true delta doesn't need tailplanes (although many do have them) to control pitch. Even if you insist the F-117 is close to delta, it's still a swept-wing design. Of course, I recall another discussion in this forum where it was asserted that F-22's wings were delta (it could be argued as a modified delta but it's far from even "usual" modified deltas). Just remember why a delta wing is a called a delta wing (hint if it's a quadrilateral, it's not really a delta).

Looking at the unremastered version of the movie, it appears to be still there. With that said, Plus OVA came out a few months before 7 while the Plus Movie came out during 7 (according to the wiki).

It's 720p but it's so much more blurred. M+ remastered DVD: M+ Youtube 720p: It's bigger but note all the lost details. Here's the upscaled (but not sharpened) version of the DVD:

Perhaps with the Mirage (which is a true delta unlike the F-117), but both the Typhoon and Rafale has canards which serve the same purpose so they do not count. The F-117 is quite far from a delta though, however its instability stems from more than just the lack of tailplane of course.

Hmm, looks similar to the Macross Plus remastered movie dvd image with a bit of sharpening. A full HD release would be nice but I hope they clean up the cels even more. The remastered version has a lot more details but you can also see some artifacts (from when they did the animation) because it's so much clearer.

This was probably already brought up but here's the F-117 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm..._NIGHT_HAWK.svg It doesn't have tailplanes either. It's not stable in any axis but still flies (if somewhat wobbly).

Huh. How about pitting the X-9 against a VF-22 or VF-19 that's fully loaded and piloted by a fresh ace then? The fight in Plus was hardly fair considering Isamu and Guld had just finished a long-ranged fold, went through a harrowing reentry and then endured a grueling duel that had both of them expend most of their ammunition.

Keep in mind that isn't really a lawnmower. The front and back is missing to allow air to flow past the top which is shaped like an airfoil to provide lift. As a sidenote, it's a stable design as well since the handles are flat and provide the function of tailplanes. I want one =D

Even without tailplanes I don't see why it wouldn't be able to remain stable with the combination of tremendous available thrust, thrust vectoring and vernier jets along with the diagonal vertical stabilizers. I'm sure there's enough computer power on the VF-1 to make that stable =). After all, the same computers can stabilize the GERWALK mode.

In a perfect world that would make sense but it really doesn't since authors tend to not comprehend scale. This is especially egregious in Star Wars.

The problem isn't only that. The problem is that Star Wars is extremely inconsistent in its depictions of class. Macross isn't perfect of course, but it's on the more grounded side of consistency. The shielding explanation you gave doesn't even help explain why they couldn't have simply have missiles that slow down before passing through the shield and accelerating again. I mean, this is the same universe that has missiles that deploy droids!

Oh that part is explained sort of. Shields in Star Wars come in two types: Ray and Particle. Ray blocks stuff like blasters and turbolasers. Particle blocks missiles and bullets. So why didn't the Imperial Fleet simply drop proton bombs? Oops, it still doesn't make sense after all. Then there's Ion Cannons. These things ignore shields and disables the power subsystems where they impact (if it's a large enough ion cannon like the planetary one in ESB, it can disable an entire ISD with a single shot!). Everyone uses blasters and turbolasers instead. There was this one ship in The Clone Wars (3DCG TV) that had a gigantic ion cannon that dwarfed even a planetary one. But they only built one and when it got destroyed, they didn't think of building another one. For that matter, they didn't think of giving it an escort fleet either. lol Star Wars tactics.

It's interesting to note that shielding in Star Wars is extremely effective. The Droideka shields can take practically unlimited shots from blasters. Tactical level shielding is invulnerable to constant artillery bombardment (in one instance, a city shield took continuous bombardment for a month and had no signs of collapsing). Planetary shielding can withstand fleet bombardment indefinitely (ESB). Firepower effects are also all over the place. The same turbolasers that supposedly have multiple megaton power has less explosive force than a C4 charge as seen in ROTS when the shields went down on Grievous's flagship and the turbolasers had clear shots right into the gun turret bay (that is, it didn't even have to go through armour). It just seems to me that numbers are simply inflated whenever they feel like it. Another example of completely arbitrary firepower are the proton bombs used by the TIE bombers. The explosions are puny and barely even scratch the surface of the asteroid they were being dropped on. But these types of bombs can deal massive damage to cruisers in The Clone Wars (3DCG TV). A single pass of a squadron of bombers is sufficient to blow away the bridge. But then the turbolasers that were capable of blowing up asteroids with a single shot take many more shots to do the same to a cruiser. If you believe the numbers they give yeah. For instance, those dinky Jedi Fighters in AOTC supposedly have accelerations of 5000G. Star Wars really suffers from Author Lack of Scale. 5000G is 49,000m/s^2. They would have us believe that these fighters are capable of hitting 49km/s with 1 second of acceleration and yet they can still dogfight WW2 style. Yeah. What if it's just turning G's? Then we would have to believe that one of these fighters spinning at a 1000rpm can reverse direction within a second and be spinning the other way at 1000rpm. In the end one simply can't use the supposed stats of Star Wars at all. They simply don't make sense most of the time. It's only the odd case like the infamous asteroid scene that's always being used to justify the enormous numbers.

The weapons on the fighters of Star Wars basically deal damage equal to the plot. For instance, sometimes the shots are so powerful that it must be in the kiloton range, but other times the firepower is barely equal to a modern day mortar.

Macross universe also has the advantage of being able to use tactical folds since folds are definitely not disabled by gravity wells like Hyperdrives in Star Wars. Speaking of which, I wonder how the Grand Cannons stack up against the Superlaser. I think the GC has a much wider field of fire while the SL has more concentrated firepower but it would be fun to see a Death Star and a planet double KO lol. Might be debatable if we use the Imperial Army pre-Endor. From the dialog it's clear that their standard tactics was to shoot from stand off range and the NMC simply has more of that than a Star Destroyer making long range engagement a losing process for the ISD. Now if we start off at close range, the ISD definitely can bring to bear more firepower but then the NMC can do a Macross Attack. Even an ISD won't be able to destroy a NMC quick enough to stop that. If you watch episode 19 of The Clone Wars (3DCG TV series), you can see an example of what I mean (at least 7 Separatist cruisers were pounding a single Republic cruiser and was still unable to stop it from a kamikaze attack). Medium range would be the only mode the ISD would have a clear advantage.

The fact that the Macross itself was just a regular gunship has pretty bad implications for an opposing Imperial fleet (especially if we stick to movie canon). Any Zentraedi expeditionary fleet would lay waste with both sheer numbers and raw firepower. Even the New Macross fleets have a great deal of long-range firepower as seen with the beam spam from the whole armada of capital ships firing all at once from long range.

I don't see any problems with that interpretation. It certainly has analogues to real life and is also consistent in-universe with their current tech. After all, these numbers and such are ingrained into the pilots as well. It makes sense to have the computer give an alarm for the conservative values of safety while the good pilots can take it to the edge and push even further based on instinct. As a sidenote, I'm sure this was the case even for VFs like the VF-19. G-limits aren't the only limits of a plane plus the values given are anisotropic. For example, the YF-19 testing probably killed a lot of its pilots because pushing the craft in certain ways results in irrecoverable loss of control. This would've been worked out during testing (and even after deployment) and added to the control software to either limit, mitigate or recover from such instances. In any case, my only real point is that feedback doesn't have to be direct. It just has to be there (whether dampened or simulated) and pilots will learn to use it.

I wasn't answering anything. In any case, we do know that the ISC dampens g-forces because we see the existence of forces on Alto when he accelerates full throttle for an example. Furthermore, shaking still seems to exist and would provide yet another method to tell how close to the limit the VF is performing at. It doesn't make much sense to say that the ISC disconnects the pilot from feeling the craft; it's a matter of getting used to the feel.

I just want to point out that you shouldn't think of that way. It dampens the effects of g-forces. The pilot still has all the feedback he needs to tell. It's just that the upper end isn't death.

What exactly is being argued here anyway? Shouldn't it be clear that VF's are really tough and takes much more powerful weapons? In any case, any gun designed for modern targets, whether it be aircraft (which don't have armor) or tanks, is utterly outclassed by the requirements of the Macross world. It very well could be that even a 55mm round at 3000m/s muzzle velocities is still mostly a pop-gun (of course, it could simply be something they didn't think of when they did that scene )

It's definitely mounted.

The speed of the bullets coming out is indeed cumulative since the velocities are way below light-speeds. However, a great enough rotational rate will still cause the bullet to collide with the plane. This is because once the bullets leave the gunpod, they travel in a straight line. Which a plane can rotate into. This would, of course, require a spin rate that is literally Beyond The Impossible since it would imply speeds similar to the speed of the bullets which is ridiculous. Another thing to note is that the bullets will immediately be subject to deceleration since they would have no more propulsion when they exit the gun while the plane is free to maintain or even continue to accelerate. This is why it's possible to shoot yourself down with your own bullets if you catch up to them

But Basara's version of the "Minmay Attack" is the best. THIS IS HOW YOU MAKE THEM LISTEN *fire gigantic speakpod bazooka"

Pretty strange view to take. It's not as if great pilots won't just push the limits of the planes anyway and thus remove the margin of error as well.

He's probably referring to space shuttle Columbia.