ChronoReverse

That comic needs a translation, STAT!

I can't help but notice this in the M7 NMC article. While we only see it used in Attack mode in M7, where was it stated it could ONLY be used in that mode?

I'm glad they showed the real Macross Cannon =) The Quarter's cannon is positively dinky in comparison.

The Protodeviln aren't completely stupid. After one engagement they'd withdraw and use the tactics they used against Macross 7 when Basara's singing forced them away. The argument that the millions and more ships the Zentraedi have can stop the Protodeviln doesn't really make sense when you can't possibly have all the ships firing at one Protodeviln at the same time. Furthermore, what happens when one of the small and fast ones like Sivil gets into the middle of the fleet? Those can move quicker and more nimbly than even valkyries. Snubfighter class weaponry does precisely zilch to them. They'd easily be able to cause chaos inside the fleets while absorbing massive amounts of spiritia without reprieve. The firepower displayed against M7 was also rather muted since the Protodeviln weren't interested in wiping out the fleet (but wanted to capture them). They already can overpower the Macross Cannon of the NMC easily despite that. In the end, it comes down to it that Protoculture was utterly unable to stop the Protodeviln without anima spiritia. I suspect that the Protodeviln in M7 were actually still in a relatively weak form as they had just acquired enough spiritia to "wake up". Since they would've started at full power against the Protoculture, the Protodeviln's true power was unstoppable.

We've also seen how the final form of the PD "boss" grows exponentially and would have ended up draining the entire galaxy. While he didn't want that, it's still an existing form.

I wonder if it's nicer than the Manga DVD release. That was one horribly mastered disc (and it gives me rage whenever I take it out to watch it).

Hmm, I don't think it has been stated what the beams are. Incidentally, I've taken a closer look at the Ghost X-9 and I have to retract one of my comments. The Ghost X-9 seems to only have five "lasers so I'm an idiot for saying six all this time =X

I said the X-9 had six to show that it was compact. I said that lasers are powerful because even a single beam from the X-9 did massive damage. From memory, the Ghost X-9 fired its lasers both in an "Alpha Strike" configuration and individually. I'm guessing that it's for versatility? A Massive Deadly Blast for normal purposes. Chain Fired Death for tougher targets like Guld in a YF-21

Are you talking about Laser or Energy Converging weapons? Because as counterpoint to all that, we have the abundance of laser weaponry (in the "as deadly as gunpods" class) on modern VF's and drones. Consider the extreme power of the X-9's lasers and that it had SIX of them as the primary amament. The YF-21 carries BOTH a gunpod and lasers (in the arms á la QRaus) as primary armaments. For the lower powered variety, the turret laser still exists. Many modern VF's also have wing-root lasers. In Macross 7, Max had to avoid laser cannon placements there were physically quite small in the narrow cave tunnel he flew down to drop the reaction warhead. Then we have the beam weaponry in orbit around Earth. A lot of them were quite small yet were able to fire repeatedly with high damage. More importantly the numbers were massive to say the least. Finally there's the optional high-power beam cannon seen with the VF-17 in M7. The unit isn't that large and a significant portion of it was actually the capacitor that powered its single shot. In the end, it's ignoring a lot just to make a point. And using one data point to try to prove causation. You tried to divert that by saying "Nice use of social sciences" but the maxim is crux to pure sciences. There's ample evidence that lasers in Macross are commonplace, compact and powerful. Now the particular beam cannons on the VF-4 probably were heavy and they look large, but there's no indication that it's a problem with lasers in general. You also have to keep in mind that the VF-5000 was designed to be lightweight AND came later than the VF-4. There's far too much discrepancy in the two designs to simply say that it's only because of the beam cannons.

Just keep in mind that Correlation does not mean Causation. It can just as easily be that the lasers and the high cost of the VF4 was coincidental.

A 747 mounted laser isn't exactly the best place to start comparisons is it? Industrial lasers can continuously cut steel too 3-5 seconds isn't a very long pulse in any sense when it's not like our lasers can punch through things like they can in Macross. Besides 20 shots or 40 shots isn't anything to write home about when it takes a 747. Besides, the ranging functions is precisely what allows the laser to hit its target accurately immediately. Even with ranging, it's not necessarily possible with a ballistic projectile since there's travel time for a shell. If the ranging is performed milliseconds before the main laser fires, the conditions in between doesn't have enough time to fluctuate. Furthermore, dragging a laser to paint a target is far more unavoidable than a stream of shells highlighted by tracers. Nonetheless I'll say point taken.

That's only because real-life lasers can't sustain fire or fire repeatedly quickly. Thus the first pulse is the only pulse you get and you BETTER hit. With Macross lasers which are fired really really fast, you just swing the laser a bit if it's off-target. Plus if you're in space, that doesn't even apply. Also, if you have a powerful enough laser, it could pretty much evict the air between it and its target.

I don't see why beams are particularly heavy in Macross though. For instance, the valkyries still have the beam cannon turrets. Sometimes even four of them. The Ghost X-9 is small, extremely agile, packs a full load of micromissiles and has 6 laser cannons as the primary armament. Both the YF-19 and the YF-21 have the root lasers (and are shown using them... this is one instance in M+ where lasers are shown like lasers). And then there's the compact laser cannon that's optional for the VF-17. Much of it is the capacitors and even that isn't that large. I still think it's a matter of versatility. Valkyries are the epitome of that and since gunpods are self-contained units it doesn't really hurt too much to include them. Valkyries have external hardpoints anyway and it's only a few valkyries like the 17 and the 21/22 that have internally stored gunpods.

All those are concerns in real-life but they aren't really as applicable in Macross. We already know that the valkyries have lasers and that they're effective. The Ghost X-9 even has them as a primary weapon. Six of them, firing at the same time. But why not still have a gunpod? As d3v said, it lends versatility. And it seems the Macross universe agrees: valkyries have both. @March There are real-life lasers with pulse-rate of a billion pulses per second. Of course these ones are for purposes other than cutting but 6000 pulses per second isn't particularly unusual especially when you factor in OverTechnology. However, if you highlight even a relatively low speed pulse laser (say using some smoke) it would still appear to be a solid beam. Any visible "pulsing" would be a secondary strobe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-switching <== might be interesting

The Ghost X-9 also used lasers (I think it had six forward lasers) and we saw how deadly that was. The Ghost only used its missiles once Guld unlocked the limiters and fooled it to get onto its six.

Doesn't the YF-19 (and probably the YF-21) have a laser-reflective coating? That would lower damage from lasers as well as mitigate glancing hits. I thought that the YF-21 also had the old QRau gatling lasers as well? In any case, the short scene where you see both the YF-19 and YF-21 firing their lasers definitely show them like lasers (except visible from the side). The beams mostly appear and disappear

Who, what, huh? I'm completely confused now. David? In any case, the YF-24's wings is almost completely delta while the VF-25 has the uber-cool swing-wings. It's neat how the YF-24 side-profile is nearly identical to the VF-25. Incidentally, they were considering a variant of the F-22 that would've been a (modified) delta: Personally I'm a fan of the X-36 design... http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/gallery/Photo/X-36/Small/index.html

But it matches the diamond configuration. The links I posted earlier says that the design teams decided on a diamond wing. http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/19...8/oct2a_98.html http://www.alaska.edu/uaf/cem/cee/esm/inde...-22_project.pdf You can't just take an apple and call it an orange by saying it's a different version of an orange.

I can't tell if you're just being silly now... The letter Delta (which the wing is named after): Eurofighter with a delta wing: VS

That's changing the topic. My original assertion was that the F-22 didn't have a delta wing. It doesn't matter why it doesn't, just that it doesn't.

Does it matter _why_ the shape is like that?

Let's be pedantic then. The F-22 has a modified diamond wing bordering on trapezoidal. http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/19...8/oct2a_98.html http://www.alaska.edu/uaf/cem/cee/esm/inde...-22_project.pdf Incidentally, this is what a delta wing looks like: Contrasting with your image of the F-22: And compare to the YF-23: A delta wing emphasizes the forward edge while the diamond wing combines both swept-forward and swept-back characteristics.

Well, not the traditional Delta configuration (see Eurofighter Typhoon). A Delta Wing is characterized by a triangular wing that eschews the tail control surfaces. The F-22's wings don't form a single triangle plus it has tail control surfaces and shouldn't be considered a normal delta wing. After looking it up, the shape of the F-22 wing is diamond

I suppose you can see some resemblance because of the large wings but I don't really get the F-22 vibes from the YF-24. The F-22 doesn't have delta wings and it also has tail control surfaces (which I can't recall what they're called for some reason). The intakes on the F-22 are also a lot more "square" when viewed from the top.

Thanks, I could've sworn I saw the M7 with PPBs so I thought it was a strange assertion to make that the NMCs haven't been shown using PPBs