Fade Rathnik

The XB-70 made a cameo in DYRL as a model, and it is one of SK most major inspirations.

After looking at the line art for the leg I am starting to doubt the the VF-25 has any internal missiles. Looks like there is no room for the internal mag for the missiles.

Wouldn't it be cool if Toby took Ben's role

Story Wise the Movie shines. Mecha lover in me loves the OVA more, although I feel that the Movie does a better job of conveying the pure unadulterated power of the VF-19. While the 21 could meet or exceed what the 19 could do on paper the 19 could ultimately be pushed very hard to meet and exceed the 21. That and the 21 always struck me as too much of a dog fighter and less of a strike fighter given the 19s more flexible load. IIRC Isamu went to Earth to shoot down the ghost to proof that the 19 and human pilots was a better choice. Guld just got in his way after he had gotten through planetary defenses. Smashing the city was more Guld's fault Isamu just made the mistake of chasing him into it, it was after the scene where they shoot off parts of each others fast packs. In fact Guld is the one who jumps Isamu THROUGH a building, who is the reckless one in that exchange? So yes he went to Earth because the project was canceled, but I feel it had to do more with the higher effects of the A.I. fighter winning the competition(I.E. the replacement of human pilots). I doubt very much that Sharon had anything directly to do with Super Nova being canceled. Though I imagine that breakthroughs in the two programs(Sharon Apple and Ghost x-9) were shared, so her completion most likely contributed to the X-9s completion. Hmm that makes me wonder if Sharon isn't the prototype for the X-9's systems. One thing that instant tactical appraisal of a situation and musical composition have in common is creative application of know assets. Yay conspiracies.

I always envisioned fluid pulse actuators as some sort of impeller or turbine like system that the fluid was pushed against

For the VF-1 Its was listed as some sort of fluid pulse actuator, MR. March could we get a confirmation?

I've always felt that a VF's controls system was more like the Patlabor/Heavy gear system where the machine learned how to do things and saved them for later to do again. Or could be programed into other units. All the pilot has to do is direct the Machine in most cases, not unlike a well trained horse. Now when it comes to something new or delicate the pilot can have closer direction. Both Patlabor and heavy gear used telemetry gloves and VR. A VF has those built into each stick, and as long as the eye tracking is working the VF knows where the pilot wants the hand. Another idea an F-16 uses a pressure sensitive stick not a gimble, so it dosen't actually move , the EX-gear is the pilots chair, right? So their are articulations with sensors every where. That could explain why the VF-25 is so animated, no pun intended.

I don't think that the missiles are stored in the legs as they are slimmer then on the 25, the 27's legs do not have the structure that is suspected to be the internal launcher. Klans suit armor seems to stop most of the rapid fire shots from the 27's gun till he gets a few solid semi auto shots on her. He then keeps constant fire on her till a secondary explosion. The gun is powerful but not uber so. Alto shot him in the knee, no armor there, I imagine a GU-11 round would have done much the same with as good a hit. I'd say maneuver and speed are quite well matched between 25 super and 27. In atmosphere I'd have to give it to the 27 as it doesn't have to shed its wing engines. However the 25 might be a touch faster at certain altitudes due to slimmer profile and VG wings. I think alto and klan are the better pilots though. Is it has been stated the 25 exceeds the battle suit in performance and alto was on that guy like white on rice, didn't give him one inch, and Klan would have had him had he not had cover. So if the 27 is more advanced then it's being piloted by someone less capable. Also I've been trying to sort out the markings on the leg, they seem like stylized English. If so the the first four letters are ANTA i think the next 3 are IZS or IZ5(but i am not sure these are the hardest to make out) and the last three being 101 so its either ANTAIZS101 or ANTAIZ5101.

I've been wondering about the attack scene with the red varja in the first ep too. Although i'm starting to wonder if the SD cannons opperate like charging weapons in various video games because on their first salvo each lobster took out one ship but all the subsequent shots to the next ship they came across only damaged the cruiser(granted seriously) but the ship wasn't sunk. Like they have to store large amounts of energy for awhile to get a one shot kill on a large target but they produce enough juice to fire the cannon often but at a lower power. The VF-27's gun displayed that kind of behavior having a rapid fire in the same class as the 25's gun pod; as well as having a semi auto mode that was more to the class of the sniper gun, and capping it off by having a converging SD cannon capable of wasting a carrier with a well placed shot. Ideal weapon if you ask me suited to most tactical situations. Makes me wonder if Klan's shoulder cannon had the same function rapid fire at less power or slower with more damage.

Yes, yes I do. But I bet it was from the 117th. After watching that commercial about Sheryl I'm in the boat that she climbs into a vf-25 later in the series. Although I think SK is going to try to redeem himself some and make her a pilot not a flying concert. My vote is she gets the SMS-007 (especialy after seeing her in the red trimed suit) and Alto gets bumped up by dead mans shoes or Alto is the doomed pilot in this series and she goes for blood, that would be 2 dead pilots for unit 7, talk about a bad rep for a fighter. All the same man I would not want to get in her way if she was in a VF and knew how to use it.

I think at this point its safe to say that Hyperspace, subspace, and SD space are more or less the same thing. They are all extra dimensional references that go beyond the established 4 dimensions of space and time.

The reaction war heads are red caps they were using yellow caped which some consider to be a frag warhead instead. Which makes even more sense as reaction/nuke are less of an area effect in space and more expensive, and reserved for anti warship. As far as tactics M0 is the best place to start when looking for tactics and maneuvers. Radar is more or less useless in a combat sense, everyone has active countermeasures that work quite well, so optical in its various forms is all they got. We see a clear variation of the Cobra used often, also shift spins to engage a chasing target, Feints to lead fire away. Reminds me of dog fighting in descent.

Maybe these Faults are caused by the gravity well at the center of the universe. And there are less of them the further out you go, it could be that reason the PC went to the core in the first place, because they knew that only they could move quickly in that are of space heading off trespassers with some form of security force. And left the outer arms to the Zentradi and the Supervision Army who could move freely there but not in the core. Why also Fold dislocation can be reasoned as a newer problem, M7 could have been not quite far enough in yet that the Faults were a noticeable problem.

Ok so if they can get some the size of the moon to fold why not a planet at that point, c'mon its only 6 times more mass. Sorry thread needed some humor

Ya me too, I still play lots of the last of the good games to come out. Independence War 2, Crimson Skies, Descent 3, Free Space 2... Actually you might want to look into that one if you don't already know about the FreeSpace 2 Source Code Project

I'm starting to wonder if the VF-25 super isn't packing more missiles in the pop up shoulder thingys(yes that is a technical term) Kinda like the armored but less missiles. That would give the VF-25 the volley of missiles that we see in the opener that I have a hard time assigning to the launchers on the wings. Of course it is the opener after all.

So I originally posted this in the ep 7 talk back but i think it might be better suited here. After looking at the 27's over all shape and structure its quite obvious to me that the 25 and 27 are very close cousins if not siblings. They both have the same over all transformation, save for the wings which are folding rather than VG as they are on the 25. And there is something different going on with the shoulders behind the neck as I am not sure if that is the leading or trailing edge of the fuselage. I agree that each fighter is based of a different concept but from the same original design, likely result of being produced by two different Firms. But two firms using more or less the same structure thats kind of odd in the Macross world, then only to find out that the 25 is based of another fighter the 24 so now there are 3 fighters with the over all same structure. I wonder if we'll ever see the 24, I doubt it though. This all reflects some interesting differences in the design and manufacture worlds of Macross. Unlike the real world, design firms are responsible only for designing their airframes, possibly building the prototypes but i doubt it. I'd say most if not all manufacture is handled by either the automated factory that they nicked back in 2011 or the automated factories humans have sense built. As was demonstrated in m7. So design firms are payed some form of license fee for each copy produced. This changes the whole logic of how a firm would operate, and if you think about it offers a perfect explanation for the 17 vrs 171. GG(General Galaxy) desgned the 17 as a special forces fighter from the outset, there for likely made the license price higher to pay for the R&D cost in developing the airframe. Then went on to work on the 21. Fast forward one and a half decades, the 11 is likely a reservist and planetary garrison fighter and the 19 is serving as the primary fighter but showing its age. Of course with the 22 as special forces, but also showing its age. Honestly as good as the 19 is she probably wasn't the best space fighter or rather she was always too much at home in an atmosphere to spend to much time in space. So someone, likely Shinshi is developing the 24 as a replacment for the 19. The UN changes and becoms the NUN, this likely killing the project. So some nut a GG goes, 'well the research on the 17 is already paid, why not just make the design more suitable to mass production and use and offer it as a primarily space fighter' hence the 171 is born as a cheap stopgap, new governments love those. Which leaves the 19s getting reasigned to the core systems where its excellent atmospheric maneuverability would pay off. The 171 on carriers assigned to colony fleets. The 24 program to replace the 19 as the standard fighter being reworked as the 25 with the new government, likely creating the flexability that the 25 is now renowned for. And the 22 apparently being quietly replaced by the 27.

What about the 'S' logo on the side of the VF-25 has that been established yet? Or is that just a simplified frontier logo? Because if its not that my vote is Shinshi.

After looking at the 27's over all shape and structure its quite obvious to me that the 25 and 27 are very close cousins if not siblings. They both have the same over all transformation, save for the wings which are folding rather than VG as they are on the 25. And there is something different going on with the shoulders behind the neck as I am not sure if that is the leading or trailing edge of the fuselage. I agree that each fighter is based of a different concept but from the same original design, likely result of being produced by two different Firms. But two firms using more or less the same structure thats kind of odd in the Macross world, then only to find out that the 25 is based of another fighter the 24 so now there are 3 fighters with the over all same structure. I wonder if we'll ever see the 24, I doubt it though. This all reflects some interesting differences in the design and manufacture worlds of Macross. Unlike the real world, design firms are responsible only for designing their airframes, possibly building the prototypes but i doubt it. I'd say most if not all manufacture is handled by either the automated factory that they nicked back in 2011 or the automated factories humans have sense built. As was demonstrated in m7. So design firms are payed some form of license fee for each copy produced. This changes the whole logic of how a firm would operate, and if you think about it offers a perfect explanation for the 17 vrs 171. GG(General Galaxy) desgned the 17 as a special forces fighter from the outset, there for likely made the license price higher to pay for the R&D cost in developing the airframe. Then went on to work on the 21. Fast forward one and a half decades, the 11 is likely a reservist and planetary garrison fighter and the 19 is serving as the primary fighter but showing its age. Of course with the 22 as special forces, but also showing its age. Honestly as good as the 19 is she probably wasn't the best space fighter or rather she was always too much at home in an atmosphere to spend to much time in space. So someone, likely Shinshi is developing the 24 as a replacment for the 19. The UN changes and becoms the NUN, this likely killing the project. So some nut a GG goes, 'well the research on the 17 is already paid, why not just make the design more suitable to mass production and use and offer it as a primarily space fighter' hence the 171 is born as a cheap stopgap, new governments love those. Which leaves the 19s getting reasigned to the core systems where its excellent atmospheric maneuverability would pay off. The 171 on carriers assigned to colony fleets. The 24 program to replace the 19 as the standard fighter being reworked as the 25 with the new government, likely creating the flexability that the 25 is now renowned for. And the 22 apparently being quietly replaced by the 27.

Any one else notice that the secondary energy weapons on the vf-25 got some love in this ep? from 6:18-6:20 ozama is using the big guns on his packs, and at 15:46-15:49 alto is using the built in beam cannons to help punch a hole in the hull. So you can't say the animators never use the cool toys. But the gun pod is still for certain the hero weapon. Also i noticed that with Luca's RVF they don't attach the extra shield you can see at 8:14. Also one other little thing i picked up. There are some form of extra module attached to the arms of the armored type you can pick them out at around 6:29. They look like some kind of larger missile then what the rest of the armor is equipped with.

The below the pilot view screens were a matter of total convenience by virtue of the way the 19 transforms. In both the 19 and 25 the nose tilts up and forms the middle torso of the battloid, with the pilot tilting forward into the area below him or her. I think that the EX-gear system takes up so much visual space that much of the extra screens would be blocked in the 25. Besides with the Holos they can display any view they need, hell who's to say that the whole inside of the 25's battloid cockpit isn't a holographic projection.

I think in Zero it played a part but it was just not labeled as such, with the effects of the priestess's singing on the Mayan landscape for one example.

Space is always at a premium in on a carrier, a hangar that full and well equipped means their procurement officer is on the ball and gets his personnel the gear they need. But I don't think the hangar they have been launching from is on board the battle section, I think it is one of the secondary hangar bays in the city section given the look of the launching port. Makes more sense that way, with battle 25 being all the way at the bow and the SMS building being in the center of town one of the secondary bays would be a lot closer for those pilots who spend a good portion of their time not on base, after all M:25 in total is not just a big ship but a massive ship. Besides I think that battle 25 and everything about her will be revealed in later episodes.

Regarding the choice to use the 171 versus the VF-19 or really any other VF, its simple. Its a space defense fleet. The 17 was always intended as a space fighter, so FAST packs are not required making them cheaper based on a per launch basis as you don't run the risk of having to eject the external pods. It is also inhearantly stealthy so an active stealth system is not required. Less extra stuff to maintain. Also the 17 is an extremely powerful fighter and could more than hold its own against Fully equipt VF-19. (if pilots were equal) I think Grahame is right and that the 171 is a 17 upgraded from Advanced late 2040's technology to standard late 2050's tech, and the weapon load out is redesigned to suit its new role. The VF-25 strikes me as more of a multi role VF. In fact I think its safe to say the it includes many of the lessons learned from the Vf-19 in a simplified form both to manufacture and fly. With one major change, I think that its safe to say the the vf-25 is better suited to external equipment then the 19 could ever be. Meaning that it may not have all the bells and whistles of a 19 it can be adapted to a wider range of missions. I think that guessing the VF-25 serves in place of the VF-171 in core systems or systems with atmosphere to fly through would be a safe bet. I am sure that the VF-19 is likely more common than she used to be in fact it may even be the standard in Sol system proper, with the VF-22 serving as SOC.

After stairing at the line art for awhile i noticed a split in the cockpit frame between the two pieces i think it opens up given the shape