Aurel Tristen

Yikes! Yeah, uh, this is rather stupid, and is going to sound like a load of BS, but the 110 mile thing is a mix up. I have two creations that I've always confused with each other. The first is the EDF-1, and the second one is the Alexia. The Alexia is a space platform that is basically Long Island in space (Thus the 110 miles). The orbital platform is dated around 2400. The EDF-1 was supposed to be more along the size of a Flag ship. The size and weight as listed in my WORD files (much older than the wiki) is: Length: 15 Miles (24,140m) Displacement: 440,000,000 tons which is still ridiculous, I know. And yes, bigger is not always better. It turns out, as the US Navy has discovered, its better to have a fleet of ships around an air craft carrier than having a mega carrier with its own defenses. Imagine a carrier that DID have that whole fleet's capabilities built into one ship. It is kinda hard to talk realism with Macross though. Sure, the weight to size ratio is somewhat realistic, but we are talking about ships that TRANSFORM INTO GIGANTIC HUMANOID SHAPES! I've struggled years to come up with a rationalization for that one. Personally, I think the Macross (both TV and movie versions) look awsome once transformed. It resembles a human shape, but is still mechanical enough to look somewhat realistic. Now the Quarter on the other hand, or better yet, the Battle Frontier really has no excuses at all. Why? Why spend trillions more dollars to give it FINGERS to GRIP its sub vessels? Just in case, let me remind everyone that I am not the famed Nanashi that apparently was here years ago and pissed everyone off. When I first came to this community a year or two ago, I was mistaken for said individual, and I'm a little concerned that this might explain a little of the hostility I'm feeling now, though its my own damn fault for not knowing my own creations well enough to see such an oversight. When I first fabricated this crap, the idea of a 100 mile long ship didn't seem that insane to me, and I could easily mix things up. I think that's why later on I bumped the Alexia up from a insainly large ship (Quite a bit uglier than this one) to a space platform. Almost forgot the transformed render. Note that new elements are still very un-detailed such as the pectoral sections and cannon towers.

I'm not trying to make it sound like its cannon, though I see what you mean. The stats, as I said, come from my personal wiki, so no one really looks at the stats but me (IE no constructive criticism) For example, my listing of planets, I have the sizes in 'Earths' and such, as I use measurements that have meaning to me. I have a much stronger concept of a mile in my head then a kilometer, though rest assured if I were ever to publish a page about the ship (and I don't know why I would because fictional Macross stuff doesn't draw much of a crowed) I'd try to follow the format I see in the Macross Mecha database, and other such places.

I'm not really sure to tell you the truth. It was originally designed to be the biggest in a group of ships I invented, but I recently changed its design to fit a different role. I figure the Battle Frontier has to be around that size, maybe even bigger, so the EDF-1 might serve as a early test of super-sized construction. I think the size fits the number of available aircraft though. If you think of it as a one ship fleet, it also makes a little more sense. Kind of a foolish concept, but if you look at the Yamoto, and the Bismark, you'll see a human pattern.

I haven't been around for a while, so I thought I'd post my current project. I normally don't do WIP type stuff, but I'd kinda like a documentation of the work flow anyway. The idea was to design and build a 3D computer model of a fictional ship built between the SDF Macross, and Fronteir era. The first step was to write up the ships concept: It looks a lot better on my personal Wiki, as I can format it better. Anyway, with the statistics in place, I started sketching different parts of the ship in photoshop using my tablet. What worked best for me was to draw each section individually, making additional sketches where parts must connect. I also started in Battle mode, working backwords instead of the other way around, as I wanted more detail in the Battle mode this time. Though I hadn't finished the arms, reflex cannon towers, or head, I found I was spending more time in 3D studio building transformation mock ups then getting things done in PS. I decided I'd start building the actual model, and have something to work off of for the rest. I'm still rather undecided on the arms. I'd like to do the classic ships thing, using two sub-ships as arms, but I don't want them to look as... detachable as they do on the SDF-1. I started with the foot and leg, working my way up. You'll notice it looks like a combination of Battle Frontier and the Quarter. I'm hoping the colors and other little details (such as the square Vernor engines will make it look a little more... Macross like.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I don't have a clue to the implications of the term. I agree with the dictionary in that Simulation means "the representation of the behavior or characteristics of one system through the use of another system, esp. a computer program designed for the purpose." In essence, all computer games are simulations of something, but just at differing degrees of accuracy (weather that be intentional, accidental, or due to limitation) In the gaming community, the word simulation is commonly used when talking about a game built specifically to be enjoyed due to its accuracy to what it is simulating. IE, flight simulator is fun because it attempts to simulate flight, where as Half-life 2 simulates the process of loading and firing a weapon, be it not accurate, but this simulation is not the driving entertainment value of the game. I know where you are coming from, and I feel the same way when I hear games called 'modern tactical shooters', or military sims such as ARMA. Being a soldier myself, and having been on the battlefield many of these games claim to simulate, sometimes I'd go so far as to say I am offended by them, but I understand that someone who hasn't been to war, doesn't understand, just as I would expect you to understand that someone who hasn't flown an airplane will not understand how poorly simulators simulate flight.

Ok, I understand what you are saying now. I guess I never knew the technical side of what you have just explained, but now that you have, I think I can 'feel' what you are talking about in games like MSX, as opposed to a FPS. I don't think this is as much of an issue if you are making a simulator as long as your focus isn't on trying to replicate the true to life arodynamic properties of the VF-1 airframe. I'm not talking about making a true to life hard core emulator. I'd think most fans would be happy with something that just lest them sit in the cockpit, and fly like they see in the show, witch is often times in no way realistic (for the love of god, the fighters are flying like aircraft in space.) I was imagining this little mod being programed much like the early flight sims, and some of the slightly more arcade type games, where aerodynamics are simulated with basic principles, such as when the plane is level, and going fast, it maintains altitude, where as turning sideways will cause 'slipping' and pulling straight up without the proper airspeed will cause the aircraft to stall. I don't really think anything from an anime belongs in the hard core simulation environment because they are normally quite unrealistic as it is (though still a million times better than something like Gundum) It again comes down to weather you want to build a flight sim into a FPS, or a FPS into a flight sim. Its hard to say, because I love both aspects so much. I think the future may be in procedural graphics (like Infinity) to allow a fighter to switch to B configuration and land at street level, and not be looking at a road texture 64 pixels wide, and no traffic. Otherwise, environments have to be hand crafted so that they are interesting and look good. Macross is about as challenging as it gets for a game, combining these two concepts, and I think its going to take a lot of revolutionary thinking to get a good game that is true to both aspects. So are you saying that because of this tick rate issue (pardon my non-industry words here), are you saying that a highly accurate and realistic simulator is not possible in an engine like Source, or that you don't think a satisfying flight experience is possible in it?

Well this is what I posted here for, this is some good feedback. Valve has actually gotten a lot better in recent, and I wouldn't call Source typical. Its quite flexible, and I've worked with it since its creation, and with Source Gold before that since its creation, and the early Quake engines before from witch it was built, but I have to say you defenetly know a lot more about this stuff then me. I'm not sure what you mean when your talking about real time loops and such. Is this programing related, graphical, AI, or engine hard code stuff? I've loved the idea of a independent Macross game, but its hard enough to get a mod made, so by the time most engines are developed to a point where they are useful, the team is disbanded, everyone loses interest, or SOMETHING happens. Hell, I've been on the Valkyrie simulation project team for years, and am still waiting for the engine to catch up to a point where I'll be able to help out. I believe in the last 3 years, they've pinned down the flight model for a F-14, and are still tweaking the VF-1. Its still a HUD hovering over a green checkerboard. I guess I just don't have the patience for this kind of thing. I've never seen a independent engine make it past the early testing phases (except Infinity: Quest for Earth, witch is AMAZING by the way) Hell, I just want what everyone else wants, a VF-1 flight sim with a little immersion and a damn 3D cockpit.

First off let me clear up that this is just a concept that has been rolling around in my head since I saw the first 3 seconds of video of Half-life 2 and the Source engine at E-3. I hope I didn't cause any heart attacks with that title (observe subtitle) I wanted to lay out what I had in mind in front of some hard core Macross fans, and see what you all think. I know the talent is out there to make this happen, but its a mater of finding it. I'm not planning on actually trying to make this mod unless I find no less than 2 skilled programmers, but again, I'd like to get the idea out there. I understand the Macross universe is MASSIVE, and there are hundreds of Valkyries and other crafts that fans have always wanted to pilot, but I think starting small is key when it comes to MODs. Community first, then additional content. It doesn't work the other way around. My goals would be: Full cockpit piloting: The player never has a magical external camera. This is a simulator designed to immerse the player into the roll of a VF-1 pilot. Fully modeled 3D cockpit with consistent animations for various controls. Animated to experience transformations. Player is able to see the pilots body operating the controls. IR head tracker support: After trying this little baby myself, I now know NO flightsim is the same without it. Head tracking would be used to allow players to observe the cockpit, and track enemies. Space combat: I've seen it done on source before, so I'm sure it can be done again. Space combat would probably be easier to implement than atmospheric flight. 1st person shooter type play in Battriod, Flight Simulator type play in fighter, and a unique combo in G. Multi-player with up to 64 players (higher numbers would require more work on the netcode) Game modes with enemy forces controlled by AI (such as in Left 4 Dead, using AI to balance the battle) and PvP VF-1 with all major variants and fast packs. Take off and landing (full length and catapult) Full joystick support for G and F modes Chain of command: Players join a squadron under the command of a squad leader (like in BF2). Squadron leader designates primary goal (IE cover Blue Squadron, Bomb Primary target, Defend Sector XX) Visible interactive user interface on main screen of fighter cockpit Inverse kinematics for B and G modes True bullet trajectories (IE lead target, use targeting computer) Missile targeting and shoot down capability I chose the source engine because its easier to make a FPS into a flight sim than a flight sim into a FPS. the Source engine can scale to slower computers, is highly moddable, and easily accessible through Steam. It has a massive existing fan base, and a lot of potential modders. The goal for the first release would be a flyable VF-1S on a large desert map (easy to map, easy on the CPU) facing off against a few target drones. Player could take off, engage targets in 3 modes, and land. Player would have use of the gunpod, micro missile packs and basic long range missiles. A small city type range would be set up in the middle of the map for MOUT type engagements, and to test B mode. The second major release would be the same map, 1 on 1 VF combat. The third major release would introduce Space combat and AI Zentradi (spelling) and so on.

Sweet, you are still alive Yeah, send me that cockpit any chance you get. It'll give me something to do. As for testing, I don't know whats going on, but I can't get any textures to show up for your model in FSX. poo, I can't get any textures to show up for ANY custom models for FSX so far. Thats some interesting stuff about the F18. WTF? Is it just me or is MS lazy as hell? How can they not make models for their own game?

I've never taken apart a compiled FS model. When working with them back in the day with my 19, I just replaced the old aircraft model with a new one each time a change was made. I do need to look into this though because I need to look into the F-18 and see how they did some of the things they did with it. If I figure it out I'll let you know. If the aircraft you are looking for is real (I don't know what a SRW is, sorry) you might be able to find a model for it in a different location. Chronocidal. I've got FSX up and running at home now, and I'd like to make another attempt to put my VF-1 in game. Did you use 3D studio Max 9? I'm having issues getting the plugins to work with it. Followed the FSX-A SDK help file, and its still giving massive errors when using any of the tools it added. I'm betting its 3DS9 that is doing it too.

Sure, if you could send me that model, that would give me something to work off of. I don't actually now the first thing about the gauges, but I'm sure we'll figure something out. Either way, a nice high detail cockpit would be cool. If you find the time to UV map, and make a basic texture for this new FSX model I wouldn't mind helping make the specular, and bump maps for that as well. My E-mail

Sweet. Textures aren't working for me (In FSX) and it was only by luck that I was able to select it from the aircraft screen (It doesn't actually show up) but I was able to fly it. A much more flyable air file than mine was. Though the textures didn't show up, I could see you haven't had a lot of time to work on the cockpit. I'd be more than willing to make a nice cockpit model if you think you could add it. I need something to do in 3DS Max 9 to test it out. I've just moved from 8.

Well I hate to say it, but this thread looks deader than Elvis. I just read through the whole thing. Its too bad, this was the best implementation of a 19 in FS I've seen to date, including my own attempt in FS2004 witch ended when my HD died. I do still have a video if anyone is interested: http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b55/Anim...-19inaction.flv I would have liked to try the most up to date version of this 19, but the only file link I see is at the first post. Any chance that you're still alive out there somewhere Chronocidal?

The only real solid 'for sure' we have that they are vernier engines is the shot of that Destroid cruiser that dodges fire by firing its left side thrusters. If they are built based off the Macross, and the thrusters look the same (they are square, witch is kinda strange for an engine outlet but whatever) then I think its safe to asume. They also happen to be in the perfect spots for the job. The same really goes for the Valkyries. They have 'lift point/vernier engines" on the design, and yet you very rarely see them used, nor do they fly like real space craft would.

Looks better than my first Macross, thats for sure. Get some good textures on it with baked in soft shadows and it would be PERFECT for a computer game like Orbiter or Flight simulator. Keep updating

Wow, Mechmaster, these models are mind blowing! It took me a good 15 minutes just to render one using advanced lighting! For anyone else who is curious:

Sure, give it a shot on one and we'll see if it works.

Looks like its going to be tough to convert. None of my conversion software can read it, and google turns up nothing (except more people looking to do the same). Anyway, its probably better for me to re-do them. I need the practice, but ether way, I'd love to see some renders . The SDF-1 model has been done for a year or so, but the story is not about it anymore. The only shots that it is included in are the flashback scenes showing what happened. The shot with the Macross in attack configuration flying toward Earth was done on my OLD computer when I was home for Christmas leave. At the time, my laptop had crashed, and It looked as though it wasn't going to recover so all I had to work with was my old models that where over a year old. I don't think it even had a texture. The second shot was just distant to show the whole scene. Coincidentally, I decided to work on the Macross yesterday while on CQ (A 24 hour guard shift kinda, so I had nothing better to do) and I made some major improvements. Now I'm glad I haven't done any close up shots because I would have to re-do them. TheLoneWolf, we just got our first keyframe animator the other day (from this very forum actually) and the other team member who is doing concept images of the characters hasn't finished anything yet, so all the videos have is special effect shots done by myself. Soon I hope to include some of our talented voice actors (almost the whole cast is.. cased) but I don't want to do so until we have some animation to go with it. The other thing I want you guys to remember is that the primary purpose for this project is to serve as a collective demonstration of the teams skills to be used in portfolios and such. It only will showcase our work, but our ability to work and function in a team.

The music is by Immediate music, the song is the 60 second version of 'for which we stand' Thanks Mechmaster, This will actually make things go a lot faster. I Didn't really want to make models of some of the Destroids, and I have been putting it off.

Just a little update here. This is a short video I put together just to show some of the new animation. Originally it was going to be a video for Craft Animation to show them how we have put there great plugins to use, but I didn't have enough missile footage finished yet. The two big scenes that I loved in this are the approach to Macross Island (note the addition of the ARMD ships already attached) and the shot of The Macross's modular transformation. No high quality version of this one, sorry. If you haven't, watch the Stage 6 video posted above. And as always, still looking for new team members. 3D models, cell animation and sound engineers primarily. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NgdadjHgbc

Well, the first video is out. I'm hoping someone here will say "thats crap, I can do better" because in that case, join up! The VA cast is almost full, we have 3 3D artists, 3 writers and are still looking for artists to draw and or animate the characters. This video is available at Youtube, but the Stage 6 version is HIGHLY recommended over it. The Stage 6 version is the same resolution as the project (400 x 700) and is of good audio quality. Stage 6 full quality YouTube low quality version

LOL, I love the E=MC2 inspired poem in your sig Thor