TG Remix

Considering how small scale the story in that game is, it wouldn't surprise me that recapping it as detailed as it's sequel, much less the series and movies, was not a huge priority in the slightest. The biggest thing that Macross Chronicle took from it was the Feios Valkyrie, nothing about the improved mechs or even the further development of Sound Energy that the Milky Dolls were formed for. Would be interesting as a story concept where a fleet or planet try to recreate or mimic parts of a culture with what little they have, only to have something unique come out of it. I'm also assuming the Asuka II didn't make it unscathed from the glassing as well? Those also seem to be attached to Central NUNS fleets as well, either as flagships or operating by themselves, since they have a pretty large consist by themselves. I'm assuming if something smaller like a planetary defense force wanted a Macross-type ship, they'd be better off with something smaller like a Quarter-class or an Elysion type. It's not impossible, but it is true that most of what we see try to replicate previous human culture, whether it's ranges from surface level similarities and aesthetics...Or full weaboo territory considering Macross 11 is practically a American themed amusement park. Wouldn't be Macross without that core! And on the topic of ships again, the existence of the Marines branches implies that amphibious assault ships are still a factor somewhere for the military. I know Zentradi Marines as a few options for themselves, but I'd imagine there'd be a Daedalus successor after SDF, since everything else kinda did in their own right (SDF Macross with the Battle class, ARMDs through the Guantanamos, and I suppose the Oberth and Prometheus with the Northampton and Uraga.) Granted not with its original battle tactics with invading territory and the hundreds of Destroids and such, but VF and VA Battroids alone can more than enough fill the same role.

I'd assume Isamu's served under that bubble, since instead of being placed in the middle of nowhere for his reckless attitude he's stationed somewhere relatively close like Eden for what they thought would be a fools errand of being the (most recent) YF-19 test pilot. Like skectchly theorized, VF-X2 seems to take place around the area as well. Makes sense for both games, as M3 has Max and Miria bepop around planets with the newest VFs at the time (iirc Miria was a test pilot for both the VF-11 and gave pointers for the Queadluun-Rhea's development in Eden) and really left that part when the Macross 7 departed from Earth, and in VF-X2 that plot was revolved around a Earth-supremacist faction that wanted to enforce their pro-unification stance on other parts of the UN, and like Plus had its finale around Earth. At this point I'm convinced the glassing of Earth was the Library of Alexandria all over again, but increased to a incomparable amount. On the topic of Battle-class operation, from my read of the Battleship of the Galaxy Vol.2, it creates a interesting notion that not only it was made as a symbolic ship representing the human race, but there was a lot more of them made than just for the Macross fleets; there's even three variants with one being designed as is, another for emigrant fleets (which has the Macross 4 as an example,), and the 2nd generation of Macross ships (showcasing the Battle Frontier) The first version presented there said to have more than 40 of each type of ship around 500 ly alone by 2065, often being in squadrons of several ships of the same type to prepare for Zentradi fleet or Supervision Army attacks. Considering VF-X2's Macross 13 wasn't attached to a fleet and Battle Astraea being the flagship of the New UN Spacy 7th Fleet, it surprisingly works on that end. Though, and I'm aware that it's a doujin, it seems very excessive since that's around 2100-2800 variable craft alone; highly doubt entire emigrant/planetary fleets alone can match that fire power! Then again the Macross 1 and Macross 5 fleets had three City and Battle type ships in its consist, so maybe it's common to have a squadron of them as it is to have only one ship. And then Master File insinuates that 5th generation Emigrant fleets like the Macross Olympia has a whopping 900 ships. That's almost twice the amount the US Navy has! Imagine if the NUNS didn't double down on Ghost drones and they need to have personnel on all of them. It feels like how long fold traveling can take can feel a bit haphazard, since Digital Mission VF-X's Elysium was described to be on the edge of the galaxy, and the Anti-UN Zentradi force there folded their ships to Earth pretty quick. And that's not mentioning the Megaroad-1's three year long journey to the center of the galaxy as well. This has been a pretty helpful map, at least to get a general feel of how close many of these places could be. It's kinda why I wondered since Sephira is said to be relatively close to earth if both Xaos and SMS operated nearby as well, or at least their general range of operations. (and as a side note, very interesting to see the old fandom's curiosity through the worlds for the RPGs as a newbie myself. The Macross 15 fleet's escapades in particular were fun reads.) And to piggyback that, I kinda liked the "How Perceived (By) Others" relation notes, just to at least see how planets or colony fleets think of others since aside from "cultural exchanges" like what we see between the Frontier and Galaxy fleets, and Windemereans being in their own bubble for who knows how long, we don't really get that. Can see some colony planets be jealous or want to move to Eden for being a rare Class A-type planet, or trade links between a few since some are noted to be agricultural and industrial fields.

Poor communication on my end, but how seemingly developed and well explored the 100 ly area is I was moreso saying it'd be interesting to focused on that instead of some random place thousands of light years in the galaxy. I don't think it'd be unified like the Brisingr Alliance, but there's a lot of potential to see how different planets, governments, and cultures grew from the early days and interact with each other, especially in such close proximity within the Central UN itself after decentralization. Since even 7 to an extent there's been plot points of Emigrant Fleets interact with one another, so it's not out of range of possibility as well. Makes me wonder for the bigger UN ships (Uraga, Macross-types, and even the pre-modified Varauta Army ships like the Battroid Transport Carrier) if it'd be possible to modify them to hold some giant crew. Unless it's just easier to just modify/built a standard Zentradi ship for that. By a bridge, does that mean the bridge at the front of the ARMD, or the carrier-type one seen in the DYRL type? That's a bit interesting, seeing space ships modified for navy operations, since iirc the Uraga is the only ship purposefully built for such. And I'm not sure there was any more Prometheus and Daedalus type ships built after the first Space War...Which is a weird name in hindsight since we never got, say, a Space War II or the like. Honestly with space ships doing more atmospheric operations I wonder if a standard Macross Air Force got more firepower then ours, practically a few steps away to get a Skies of Arcadia or Castle in the Sky like world in the franchise. It does make me ask, are there any specifications for how fold faults work? As in, could they pop up anywhere in the galaxy or any limitations on how wide their reach is?

The surname being so on the nose is absolutely on purpose lol. I promise you there's a point to it other than just fun fan-service. As for what she does story wise...She'll definitely be a singer, maybe not in the way that's expected in a Macross story. A good amount! So much so that Cadi changed pretty much as a main character and details on Tiera (mostly visuals) have been changed a lot. Not sure if I can update just yet, but I will say that I do have two chapters done in the drafting stage; 70% of the story is planned out in advance as well. I apologize for not updating this as frequently as I should, but this is something I really want to finish and share to the best of my abilities.

The APC (armored personal carrier iirc) was the first boss of the DYRL game right? There was a surprising amount of mechs that expanded what a Zentradi fleet would have in its arsenal, like salvage ships and even a jamming device where it stops the broadcast of the Minmay Attack for a good bit. On the point with M3, what'd be nice to see that blank space being developed is how far the UN reach has gotten, since we know about not just the long range fleets like the Megaroad and early New Macross ships (including whatever the Island Jackpot was supposed to be) spread humanity far and wide, but also the short range emigrant fleets that did the grunt work of populating the galaxy 100 light years from Earth. It's probably not likely since most stories in the franchise takes place either on colony ships or frontier planets, but it'd be nice to see how developed the world got immediately after SWI. Kinda love the idea of the ARMD (or any NUN ship) having that amount of modularity, would make sense considering how flat the middle of it is. Would make sense to have a module (or just any ship built with giants in mind) since in a emergency you'd probably want to have at least a few hands on deck for any first response, or hope nothing bad happens to the ship as you macron/miclonize. It's what almost did Klan Klang in the TV series...If it wasn't for Michael sacrificing himself for her sake. The water landing type got me curious, would that be for the ARMD to do atmospheric operations, or just to land in water for potential aerospace/amphibious missions? Zero more or less did the same with the Unification War, so it's completely possible all things considered. Especially since in the context of VF-X2 it wasn't presented as much of a big deal like Frontier did. Mostly because of the retcons but building more on what's established is always nice. (I'd love that, much less any Macross game to get rereleased, but it seems unlikely. Can only pray for a English translation on my end)

I'm assuming that this is more in a generalized sense and not everywhere in the New UN military has that problem (Especially if morale stemmed from the top and pro-autonomy parts of the UN liked more independence away from it.) Though I guess even one of the most richest fleets in the galaxy has morale issues with military personnel then it's probably commonplace across NUNS control. Narratively it was definitely to make SMS a lot more competent as the main characters, but I wonder if because of the more wider adoption of ghost drones and the decentralization, it made military more lax with certain commitments, having a local defenses of planetary defense or a colony fleet be more like a reserve force. And then when they finally got VF-171EX's to properly fight against them, SMS STILL gives them grief for being copycats. Damned if they do, damned if they don't, anything belonging to the NUNS in Frontier and Delta can't win no matter what! Something else has been bugging me for a bit; if following Sky Angel's notion that a postwar ARMD's consist would be 24 Super Valkyries, 120 Ghosts, and 94 Regults, what accommodations would there be for the giant Zentradi pilots there? It must be a tight fit since as roomy as the space carrier was it's still smaller than the smallest ship in a Zentradi fleet (430 meters vs the Picket Ship's 500 meters), unless they have a lot of micloning machines on standby. Only close thing we got to address that in the series proper was Frontier with the Pixie Team being stationed on the Macross Quarter, but even then those were just three at max pilots that could be easily accounted for.

From what I seemed to read both SMS and Xaos has branches on Sephira, and considering that's the planet where Hyde City was located in Macross VF-X2 seems to imply that it's far enough to be considered a frontier planet, but also close enough to Earth to be considered a target for Black Rainbow, since iirc the game was mostly focused on fighting on central UN territories. You know, considering how SMS kinda went against the Frontier's fleet back to deal with the Galaxy fleet themselves in a large conspiracy (in the TV series), essentially did a prison break scheme for a known criminal about to be executed (in Sayonara no Tsubasa), and Xaos' unlawful participation in the 2nd Windemerean War amongst other illegal actions, I'm wondering when will it be the time where a PMC group goes to the ways of Blackwater and becomes the antagonist for the series, maybe even SMS and/or Xaos themselves. If they can vilify the NUNS at every opportunity surely with them is also possible. Would be a interesting thing to tackle, something like that was played for all of its drama in Gunbuster with it's FTL travel. Maybe that's why some characters in the franchise seem to disagree with the concept of aging lol.

Would make sense considering their high standards in terms of VFs (and admittedly brazen superiority complex) compared to the regular file NUNS. It does make me wonder, have we ever gotten a full grasp on how many branches SMS and Xaos have all over the galaxy? Xaos seems more or less stuck in the Brisingr Globular Cluster, but considering SMS started as security for a transportation business I wouldn't be surprised if they're practically found on every corner. How could I ever forget Elma and her own personal Fire Valkyrie lmao. Probably wouldn't be surprised if that was customized from a VF-19P. Makes sense, though considering that I'm surprised they somehow had money to get multiple Macross-type carriers as their flagships. On that topic, it is kinda weird that the Aether and Hemera on the Elysion have a class name for their type of ship (The Enterprise-class to be specific) before their mothership. Honestly makes me wonder if they can operate on their own as "Variable Carriers" like the Valhalla III from Digital Mission VF-X. On a separate note, I've heard some discussion on what Macross Delta was originally conceptualized before becoming what it was; specifically with a NUNS protagonist, no love triangle, and having its runtime cut in half so movies can continue where it left off, but I could never find a source on it. Would anyone happen to know where that information came from?

You know I get why, considering how tied to the lore VF-X2 is compared to the other video games, but considering how much the world makes a big deal about Zentradi building their own weapons through the Variable Glaug and Feios Valkyrie they wouldn't have the stepping stones to that, like the not-Getter Robo machine in M3 as previously mentioned. Thinking about SMS and Xaos's VFs, a part of me wonders before getting their own respective "hero Valks" I want to know what VFs they used beforehand in their timeframe of being active. SMS I know they had a Frontier local variant of the VF-19 through the VF-19EF, but since that was a joint development with LAI that was connected to the VF-25's development anyways, so did they use their own private aircraft before? And I'm not sure about Xaos except there was that VERY specialized VF-171EX piloted by Kite Kinjo from Macross E, but I wouldn't be surprised since they were stripped of cash as they were, they piloted the more conventional VF-171 units as well.

It seems like that's the only book that really goes in detail about the unique enemy designs there. Guess it makes sense, since they only exist due to the modelers seemingly putting more emphasis on the variable fighters than making the battlepods in their more rounder, organic shapes. I do really like how the limitations caused the Stealth Regult, Stealth Fighter Pod, Glaug Kai, and Stealth Quel-Quallie to live up to their namesakes, so they could match how the VFs were leaning more into active stealth systems at the time. Just kinda wish they'd be more elaborated on then just being thrown away when VF-X2 had its massive graphical and gameplay upgrade.

It iirc changed him quite a bit too. In the TV series he was just yet another Zentradi in the group that rejected Earth's culture who surrendered after the war as opposed to defecting to Earth like with Britai's group. But in the TV novelization, his rebellion came from being angry with human discrimination against Zentradi despite how much they contributed to humanity's growth, and even joined the Macross Quarter as an ally for the finale. For my ten cents, his more anti-hero character sounded like a more interesting character than what we got animation wise, bonus points that he piloted the Neo Glaug too! The final bit made me consider that in the show proper he got defeated by Alto, but wasn't framed as if he was completely gone like he was going to pop up again.

The Varauta Army has always had elusive yet enticing designs from mecha to ships that, past their debut series, never really came up from again in any capacity. So in my journey to find more about them, I discovered that instead of unique Protoculture-esque designs, they were "improvements on base Unified Forces craft." (Macross Chronicle Mechanic: 7 Varauta 04A: Varauta Fleet) Even though Miyatake always conceptualized them with that little lore bit in mind, they were never drawn at what they possibly were before being modified by the Protodevlin. So in a fun exercise, I modified their line art to see how they potentially could've looked as UN vessels. Varauta High Speed Raiding Space Cruiser Varauta Vanguard Frigate Varauta Large Battroid Transport Carrier Of course, because of little we know about them to begin with, I could guess on certain aspects. Some minor modifications involved the black square spots that are found all over UN ship hulls like the Guantanamo and Uraga carriers, while others I removed to make them more "standard" and basic in appearance like some of the extra lines on the "sails." Replacing the high-angle beam guns was a challenge, but I decided to go with more conventional beam guns, the design I borrowed directly from the Zentrad-type stealth frigate. These are only some of them, and I'll try to get to the others when I get the time. Feedback is always welcome!

The Model Graphix issue of January 1989 seems to infer there was much more. Those six were from A2 types that were converted from A1 types, and twenty of those were said to be delivered to Karaba. Granted the few B types were also said to be converted from A types as well, but those aren't too bad numbers all things considered, especially when we don't know anything about how many C Types were built too. If that's referring to the Victory Hexa the only difference it states is the head, otherwise it's almost identical to the original. The Victory MSV states that 20 of the original were built, but I'm assuming those are referring to the Core Fighters considering how much the limbs are considered expendable to Uso, lol. Considering the last time we saw them in animation was in Plus with their massive orbital defense, it's a amazing if not too surprising thing to consider that Earth and the Central UN as a whole are kinda broken in terms of military prowess. If not a stock VF-24, then it's more likely to see more detuned ones that were made from the YF-24 Evolution data that was sent to the colony fleets, to begin with. Though considering Cromwell's Battle Astresea, makes me wonder if a NUNS force can have a Macross-type carrier be built not tied to an emigration fleet as a flagship or something of the likes of that. Would make sense. Pretty much every other instance of a VF-11 having a pinpoint barrier (like the Jamming Bird's VF-11D Customs and VF-11C Thunderbolt Interceptor) seems to be custom fitted instead of any standard upgrade. Though personally, it would complement its relatively large shield a bit if implemented in a life extension program. I like your thinking, although we need to be careful else the Macross Galaxy takes that too literally!

Did not stop attempts with varying levels of success like the Zeta Plus lineage and the compromises the ZZ production types had to make. Honestly makes the F91 and Victory's limited production more surprising all things considered. Or even (personally) better; have the protagonists have older variable craft fighting those a generation or two higher and have them perform well due to their own skills in flying or tactics and knowing the playing field. Though that'd take a lot since many mecha franchises struggle to keep older designs relevant unless it's tied to a major or main character. Surprised we never see a stock VF-24 physically, export detuned or not, since it seems like the VF-25's design but with delta wings. Though from my previous comment, I'm wondering if any VF generation before it can match its specs, unless the Fold Quartz and EX-Gear make it that much ahead from anything else. Speaking of highly customized/designed variable fighters, I'm wondering about the stock VF-11MAXL; since In the weaponry of Mylene's, it has the pinpoint barrier system like the VF-19. I'd assume it was a Sound Force thing only except Ray's and Veffidas doesn't have it on their VF-17T Custom at all. So I'm assuming that is either something the VF-11MAXL has in general or something that can be ordered to be added by the pilot's order like the unit's manufactured in general.

Ironically that probably adds to the VF-31 as my personal favorite of the 5th generation VFs. Not every hero valk needs to be put up on a pedestal as the bestest thing ever for only the main protagonists to be entitled to have like the VF-19 or VF-25, as much as I love the former. Either that or the novelization is following the logic of the Neo Glaug being a lot closer to the regular Glaug in size and without no Battroid transformation, like it was in the game it debuted in. I have to keep in mind the Glaug was already cramped for Zentradi, much less for bigger ones like Kamujin.

Yeah was kinda confused considering the rest of the material. But oh well, if we weren't going to have confirmation on Lady M's whole thing there, it's probably gonna be never. Really? Somehow never noticed that. Would make sense considering how thin the limbs are on the Rhea. Although I'd assume like with the Regult it'd make it a bit more cramped than piloting the Rau. With the Variable Glaug I can see it. I was more referring to the Neo Glaug bis from The Ride which both giant and miclone pilots was built for the New UN forces. Then again it still says only a small/petite Meltradi could bring out its true potential, so maybe that still tracks. How is Macross 30's story influenced by the war? And on a side note it's kinda fascinating to me that a game that involves time travel as an excuse to bring characters from every era somehow is one of the most rich in terms of world building and lore; still holding out hope for more translation efforts get to that and The Ride. It's the reason why the Plus-7 era is my absolute favorite in terms of mecha designs; so much variety that I feel is a bit lacking compared to Frontier and Delta. And I'm aware it's due to story reasons for Frontier and how 3D modeling is more expensive and you can't rely on anime magic like with a lot of the designs before, but it still feels different either way.

That explains the audacity. Though it makes me wonder; cyborgs can still pilot military craft after Frontier right? Just pushing specifically towards that direction is a no no that the NUNS had and Hemidall disagreed with. Also the time Hikaru made a failed escape on Breetai's ship and Isamu jetted Wang out of the YF-19, yeah. Probably would assume the VF-14 would look different since its canopy isn't enclosed and probably just less alien-y in general. Although considering how NUNS actually treat their Zentradi pilots like people, does make me wonder if the Rhea would have something of the sort despite being a battlesuit, or if the Neo Glaug could fit one for macronized pilots. You'd be SPOILED with choices if a series goes in that era; disregarding the ones we do know like the VF-4, VF-5000, Variable Glaug, etc. There's still unseen designs like the VF-5, the Advanced Valkyrie designs that were semi-accepted into Macross continuity, and the first variable attackers and bombers. Probably would help settle on VF-X2's position in the franchise's continuity, since that also happened within that war, whether it means it was the cause, a byproduct, or something else. Personally, It'd be nice to go with Seto's late 2020's timeframe or even the 2030s since the 2nd generation would still be in some use then alongside the VF-11 and VF-14 (with some extra ones like the VF-15 and VF-16,) or between the Second Unification War and Frontier to show how far and diverse government, military, and culture autonomy can go within the New UN sphere (and admittedly want a time where VF-171s aren't just cannon fodder)

Having engines derived from the VF-22 would definitely help I'd reckon. On the topic of General Galaxy VFs, considering the Elgersoln had it's own escape pod when things go rough, it makes me wonder if the VF-14 had the same thing, like how the VF-11 had it's own, as 7 loved to show. Oh well. Going back wouldn't be bad at all, though I'd suppose it would only be to act as set up for another later series, like Zero was to Frontier. It lives on as the SV-154 to an extent...A design we barely see much of in its series, but it counts. If the LV-7s Battroid is the closest thing we have for the Svard itself, wonder what that makes for the shoulders (since the fighters intakes up front don't seem to separate to become those and the arms) and the legs (which look a lot closer to the SV-51s if anything)

The designs not revamped for Macross would make for good groundwork to step away from the Frontier/Delta collection of mechs. As much as I enjoyed the VF-171 and the road to the VF-31, I feel like three series in a row with a VF-25 derivative would be a bit too much, especially for a franchise known to do different things per entry. iirc even the story of Air Calvary Chronicles involved different nations interacting with each other with their different VFs.

It's a bit of a shame that Kawamori never drew the Battroid form of the Sv-154. Guess it's the curse of being a background VF rearing it's head again. At least judging from the Megaroad-01 in 2012 Flashback, a Megaroad emigration fleet seemed to have a decently big force of military ships, a good chunk of them being Zentradi types and that's not even mentioning the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs in the forefront. Though saying that out loud maybe that's where the Al-Shahal Zentradi garrison got their Thuverl-Salan from too.

Well, SMS was established to protect Bilrer's interstellar shipping business after all... Funny enough there IS a UPS-like company in Macross already; Tachyon Express, which is a Zentradi-owned business that at one point used disarmed Queadluun-Raus to handle cargo.

Pretty interesting story, especially with Arad as the main character. It's an amazing notion that the Master File pushes, more Protoculture remnants than what there were in the Brisingr Globular Cluster and the worst case scenario of interstellar travelers pushing their weight around in less developed civilizations. Judging from what happens here and in Delta I'm starting to think that Zola was the lucky one in terms of New UN contact! The VF-31's early usage sort of confuses me though, I was under the impression that it was a pretty recent addition to Xaos, more akin to SMS field-testing the VF-25 for the NUNS as they only received the prototype a year prior in Macross: The Ride. So I'm not the only one whose mind went to the Ferengi, right? I love the combination and it's a shame that they're in their mandated cannon fodder role lol. Though with the use of the battlepods I'm assuming that they either were natural giants or had access to miclonization technology like the Zolans? Kinda wondering why the Zentradi would be interested in the star system, unless it was a situation like the Resort Ship where the capture and further investigation of it would give their positions away to the Main Fleet. Considering how the Protoculture essentially made the bodies for the physics-defying Protodevlin, I'm not too surprised that they managed to just, move entire planets around from orbit. Wonder why they'd make an artificial solar system to begin with, that's a fascinating story on its own

I thought the YF-30 was planned and built sometime after the events of Frontier, unless its development also went as long as the VF-25 and YF-29. Although the GGCF makes me curious, would this be the Galaxy's fleet general local force, or is it seperate from the main military?

Well Macross 30 did have a time travel part that's officially a part of the timeline lol You know with regular aircraft I can understand them only looking like an older design and under the hood there's a new one. But with the reproduction VF-0s and SV-51s, those have to factor in the entire transformation aspect. Would these reproduction models be almost the same as the originals but with token improvements in performance, or basically new models that somehow just look physically the same? I know for gameplay purposes you just want to have a VF-0 like how it is in Zero, but I guess I'm looking for a Watsonian answer on why they'd be commercially sold for combat when there are probably warehouses of VF-11's waiting to be used.

I keep forgetting how big it is, considering it needs to comfortably hold 3 giants at the same time. The Stealth Quel-Quallie from Digital Mission VF-X is essentially a heavy bomber. It might be because of the different medium VF-X2 is in and how it hasn't been completely translated into English yet so I can't get a full grasp, but the game makes it feel like The Second Unification War feels a lot less of a wide-galaxy scale event then what later material makes it out to be. The biggest influence you get from it is the general restructure of the NUNS from Frontier and onwards, but how Kaname's home planet is still fighting the war between pro-autonomy and pro-unification sides. Since there's so little known about the NUNS Reserves that Isamu was a part of, I'm wondering myself if, like actual reserve forces, aircraft if not retired from official military use were just retired from front-line duty and kept for emergencies, local forces, remote regions, etc. There's probably a point where you can upgrade them to a point, since I'm not expecting a fleet of VF-11s to be equipped with a panoramic cockpit and pinpoint barrier system, lol. Then again, considering there's a VF-1 retrofitted with EX-Gear... I knew Xaos had money issues but if they couldn't afford something slightly better like even a VF-5000 then that may be an issue lol. Well, that's a bit of a shame. So there'd probably be no more surprise comebacks like the museum the Zentradi Marines had in the first episode lol. Although would that sorta count derivatives of SDF designs like the Queadluun-Rhea or the VF-0? Huh, well that kinda makes sense considering stealth technology in our time was getting a lot better than when Plus was being released. I'd hope VF's based on the Nighthawk and Blackbird would be better suited for stealth, it'd be weird otherwise!