1/1 LowViz Lurker

Someone pointed it out ages ago but in one scene there is a vf-1 in shadow. And it looks like the stealth version of the vf-1. Could be a dark blue valk though. see here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...st&p=421111 Maybe if you squint really hard you can see gamlin's father in the cockpit getting ready to take off.

BoB that is a fair statement. Somewhere in the thread the topic turned to yamato 1/60 vf-1, the fact they had diecast legs, and how 1/48 felt cheap because it is so light (while 1/60 felt heavy for its size) and then this got confused with how yamato were the only game in town and that as lovers of 1/48 vf-1 which has its faults, it is still the best valk to recommend to newbies looking for modern vf-1 toy. Not all of us who love the vf-1 are blind loyalist. I just wanted to clear up some of the confusion so people would understand that once bandai or some better company DOES make a supeior vf-1 in durability I will be a fanboy of that just as I am of the existing thing. There is also the matter of price. There isn't much defence for that. Everyone can agree these feel overpriced. Not much we can do about it though (thanks HG) so no point complaining if there is no competition in the large scale vf-1 toy arena for us to go to for a cheaper and better-quality alternative. "beggers can't be choosers" goes the saying. About the garland: unlike macross at least you can get support for the broken shoulders. We macross fans outside japan are loyal to macross as a franchise and we will eat all the costs. But that shouldn't be confused with being ignorant and dumb people who will buy shoddy things just because it is a macross toy. If someone thinks the toys are overpriced, a fan is likely to come out and defend it by saying:"years ago bandai chunky munky on ebay was $1000. Be thankful you ingrate" and this gets confused with "people who have low standards." It's not so much we have low standards as the standards have to be lowered in relation to what is already out there. If there is nothing to compare the yamato 1/48 with, what else can a fan of macross recommend to another fan looking for a vf-1 toy to own? It's not like we can send you a free sample for you to try. Everyone's standard will be different, so you got to accept that people who had no other alternative are going to be excited over anything better than what other stuff is already out there, ..if it's been such a long time since anything has been done for macross. (such an old series) If those fans were paying $1000 for some ancient toy from another decade, then in their mind they don't see it as being that bad to get something much better for less. So as a result of a) the franchise being dead b) no new toys for macross c) having to import them and not have support for breakages, ...opinions about what something is worth will vary. Some will be angry at price, others will be grateful, and some will expect the first attempt to be perfect. (eg cracking in the 1/60 yf-19 making people scared they will self destruct on them.)

One guy says only yamato toys have the chipping. The other says I have had none on my 1/60 chip. Still I am more a fan of a toy with diecast only on bits that are needed. If the toy is durable whether it be diecast or strong plastic, that end result of being able to last is what is important to me. There is just something about plastic I like: how it can kinda flex and stretch with 100% guarantee of no chipping. The bigger and heavier a toy is, the less I start to care about weight. I do agree though that some of the scraping together of plastic (like the collar piece on the back of the 1/48 which has to bend in and be held together by two bumps) is going to show signs of wear over time. But it only goes back to the point of: If the fast pack wasn't so heavy, maybe that problem wouldn't be there. Overall when the fast pack are mounted on the valks back, you can't deny more stress is going to be put on the hip joints of the valk in robot mode and maybe loosen more easily over time with the extra weight. People who think I'm attacking diecast are missing the point: it's not whether its diecast or plastic but the overall result of whether the toy is durable to me. Plastic can be durable. Diecast can be durable. Therefore it's stupid to say "because it is light and feels cheap...." and then make a comment about how hard or tough the material is while ignoring other things like: can it hold itself together and pose easily? If yes, then I am happy. Who cares what it feels like if it is actually holding together? (and this is why I'm puzzled about people saying the 1/48 is so delicate. It's not that I don't believe you, when you say that yours feel like they are breaking apart but more that I haven't had that experience yet so far as I expected to get a toy aimed at people who wouldn't necessarily play with it like a kid) I think that a toy with less weight and some balljointed hips may be able to do a more wide pose than the same toy with the same joints but is heavier. (doesn't matter if the latter is diecast or anything) It's not just about balance but the stress on the hip joints. A top heavy robot made of heavy materials will loosen its hips faster than the same toy which is generally lighter because of less stress from the lighter body. Therefore I prefer less diecast on larger toys if possible. The fast pack on the 1/48 which is heavy is only going to put more stress on the hinge than needed. If it had been lighter maybe it would be less scary and overall less stressful on the hinge and those two little bumps that hold the whole thing up? My point: Weight doesn't necessarily = durability. Over time the heavy fast pack will wear out the thing faster than a lighter version of that fast pack made of lighter materials but equal durability, since the lessened weight eases some of the burden on the hinge. My reason for making that point was just to respond to the collectors who hate big things that feel light. (and therefore cheap to them. You know that feeling of holding this big thing in your hands and it's like full of air or something?) I'm not so much anti-diecast as I am pro-plastic. Being pro-plastic doesn't mean I am automatically anti-diecast. Understand what I am saying? I prefer plastic over diecast but not against its use. An example is how I like the playability of the alternators over the binaltechs because they are cheap and light. Maybe the diecast BT actually displays better because it looks more expensive, sure. Something that I agree is true and if I were a collector the appearance is something I care a lot about. But I don't WORRY when I touch the alts and can even throw them around. I can hold them, pose them, scratch them. And if it falls off my desk, so what? It's so light anyway. I can't say the same about the 1/72 yf-21. It just feel dangerous to pose or have it knock on something. The extra weight means it will crash with a heavy thud breaking off the fine features like the head laser. So in that instance: less weight, lighter overall toy might = less of a crash, less hard thud, and less stress on the hip joints which must bear the weight of the legs which are heavy. (so less posability for you when these joint get loose over time and cause floppy limbs)

drifand yeah I don't like the massive size of them since it takes away the perfect transformation from the hands being allowed to retract. This is a sacrifice of no room left in the sleeve. But to be fair the cartoon cheats whenever the robot mode is shown with blocky fists and slightly exaggerated proportions. Would the hands look that big if it was a non-deforming cg model? At what point can we blame the toy maker and not the lineart or anime for having parts deform? Where do decide which is the more important thing: anime accuracy, lineart accuracy, loyalty to the real world. Just because an anime is real robot, doesn't mean it won't have unrealistic proportions depending on what mode it is drawn as in the anime or lineart. Go look at the lineart in design works and see how stubby and fat the nose of the battroid mode. Then go look at the nose of the valk when drawn in fighter mode. Which one is the "real life" proportions? The fighter mode or the battroid mode? As a toy that has three modes you have to make some compromises don't you? I have never been a fan of yamato hands to be honest. If bandai could make a 1/48 vf-1 and it turned out much better than the yamato with better hands, more details, was perfect transformation, excellent posability, and made up of better materials I would be a fanboy of that too and might even sell off some of the yamatos. (I want to own the best thing) But all we have are the chunky munky and macross 7 toys they did. So recommending old stuff only on the basis that it was made to be durable and nothing more would be silly. People care about what the best there is now.

I can agree with that. But just that sometimes people say something feels cheap because it is light. I feel ripped off paying money for the bandai Mac 7 Valks too if it helps people feel better. Mainly because they are light and feel like I am holding a plastic easter egg. But does that mean they are not durable? Adding diecast wouldn't have made it more playable to me since it just means paint chipping. I'd rather they worked on things like accuracy to the anime and posability. My main beef is the diecast legs on my 1/72 yf21. The paint is scrapping off in huge chunks everytime I try to transform or handle it. Paint chipping from diecast is as much a valid beef to me as the potential brittleness of plastic in toys that have lots of stress put upon them. It MAY be the plastic itself, but it could also be what weight that plastic has to support too. (eg heavy diecast FastPacks on a plastic hinge for the 1/48 vf-1. What if the FP weren't diecast but light plastic too? Wouldn't a light fast pack made of plastic put less pressure on the plastic hinge?) So it's not wise to just generalise and say ALL plastic itself is to blame. Or the fact that it feels light and happens to be plastic that it means you got ripped off and bought a hollow easter egg. (bandai valks are light and cheap but strong. How much of that is due to how chunky they like to make their valks though?) "Durability" can include how resistant to paint chips it is, how much stress you can apply without fear of cracking, and how loose the limbs will be in time. This is a reason why I love the "clicky joints" so the toy can hold the guns or bend its knees without collapsing. I'm as unhappy when I get loose joints for the all-plastic, yamato 1/60 Qrau as I would be with the diecast-legged 1/72 yf-21. The result is all that matters. Things we all want are: Good posablity, stiff joints, playable and transformable without wrecking the paint or cracking, and to be transformable.... but with all the fine details that show authenticity like models do. (so skinny things like head lasers and individual fingers are there and not just block hands) I'm happy that when I put the gbp armor on the vf-1 that the arms can still click and bend into place and not fall loose under the weight of the armor. (which is light thanks to being plastic) Whether it could do that as a diecast toy or a plastic toy doesn't matter to me, so long as it can do it. Over time maybe the joint will get looser, but from what I have heard the joints are getting tighter in later releases aren't they? I've hardly heard anyone complain about the Vf-1 having loose joints in ages and this is macrossworld where everyone complains.

No way in hell am I going to agree with the OP on 1/60 being superior to 1/48. It just isn't true. It's main advantages are things like the nose and the proportion on some things like the arms but 1/48 beats it overall imo. I don't care how unhappy collectors are of the 1/48 compared to bandai SOC. This is a valid criticism. This is something that is probably true. But none of the problems BOB mentions so far have I encountered. I have transformed mine more than twice. What the hell are people doing to their toys? Bandai may make sturdy toys but their macross 7 stuff is butt ugly. Unilt bandai actually make something as detailed as the vf-1, all comparisons to other toys from other anime are off. The Aquarion is NOT a vf-1. It's like comparing apples to oranges! Otherwise I can just say the Transformers Jetfire classics is a lot more sturdy to the 1/48 and therefore superior because I can throw it to the floor without breaking stuff. "Gee its more durable so it must be better." I can agree that yamato's stuff like koenig monster and the breakage problems with the newer 1/60 releases is unnacceptable (with the threat of stress marks after TForming and all, and toys should be built to last, but I think 1/48 are one level of durability above the newer 1/60 valks from mac + and mac 0. They are not worse than 1/60 to me. To each his own... I think people are just pissed it's expensive and not made of diecast. (just like the people who prefer the binal tech toys over alts) Well to me the diecast adds stress and only makes me worry everytime I want to take the FP off the back of the valk. Weight and solidity have nothing to do with it. The plastic is actually pretty strong, just that there is a lot of stress and weight on that hinge. So having a heavy thing add more weight is going to present some problem. Heavier isn't always = better. I've mentioned before how I celebrate the fact the alternators feel light and cheap compared to the BT because they are more playable and no paint chipped. It's not so much that we have low expectations as we lowered those expectations with the 1/48 since it is more sophisticated than past toys. It's big, it's complex, and has more detail and better sculpt and line art accuracy to the chunky that you can say overall it is a much superior toy. Durability is only 1 factor in a persons purchasing decision. If you are feeling ripped off, I'm sorry. But it doesn't change that it is still the best vf-1 toy out there. Chunky munky isn't superior just because you can throw it around and not have it break. Saying that just ignores other factors that are important which people care about when buying toys. (proportions for example. Heads on the 1/60 are horrible) For example: MP prime may be heavy and a tough toy but it's floppy and not accurate in sculpt to real truck. What about posability? The weight means it will flop about and stuff? Isn't this just as important consideration? I don't like toys that can only barely stand up. As many people like BOB out there complaining about yammy 1/48 I bet there are many other colectors disappointed with MP prime. Doesn't mean MP prime isn't the best current toy of optimus prime ever done and that people who are happy with MP prime are people with low standards. You know what I'm saying? It would be like me going into a transformers thread and as a newbie saying: "I don't see what is so great about this masterpiece prime. Just because its the best looking g1 prime out there doesn't count for anything. I feel ripped off even though I own multiples of it and wish they could meet my high expectations. You guy raving about it are deluded fanboys. The original G1 toy was da best since it is kiddy safe. No other factor matters to me" Now if you bought your 1/60s on clearance prices or at a bargain price off ebay because the seller who owned them wasn't happy with them and wanted to get rid of them quickly and you "feel you got your money's worth", doesn't change that it's just not as good as the 1/48. You getting a good price on a 1/60 doesn't = 1/48 must suck now. Nobody raves about the 1/48 price just that it is the one other companies should look to beat in future if they want to also make a vf-1 since it is the one on the market that people keep still buying. You make votes with your wallet. Because we have to import, it means we get price gouged. So there isn't too much you can do is there? Whether "1/48 are worth the price you pay for" is a seperate issue from "Are 1/48 the best VF-1 toy for a noob to get?" So if a newbie asks for advice on the best vf-1 toy on the market, it won't surprise me that people still recommend the 1/48 despite price. But the basis of that recommendation isn't because they are deluded, so much as it is currently considered the best option out of all the other choices. Doesn't mean some other company won't be able to come around and maybe whup yamato's ass. You can only pick from what's out there.

Yuck. Pubic hairs in your valks. Hahaha! But yeah I can see his point the 1/48 isn't the kind of thing that you could say would be virtually unbreakable like the chunkys, but as others pointed out what you get is a toy that looks like a model but isn't as hollow and brittle as one. That's essentially what I expected when I read grahams reviews when I first got my 1/48. I saw how complex the transformation was, the details, and how it tried to be accurate to lineart and stuff, and realised I needed to have this. It's still the ultimate VF-1 toy to own if you are a fan of macross. Maybe not if you are a toy collector of other things, but if you are just a macross person like me who virtually has no choice but to pay the price yamato asks then it isnt easy to express disapointment. It's like you are in a desert and a tiny amount of water is valuable. It makes you less critical and more appreciative that it exists because of those 20 years. If bandai made really good high detail macross stuff aiming for collectors....

Yeah but what if it has improvements? You never know if you don't try right?

CMs will kick its butt. Anyone going to get one and review it?

There was an episode in G1 transformers, "Golden Lagoon" where the decepticons dip themselves in gold fluid to make themselves invulnerable to damage from all weapons. Why can't they just make a bunch of gold classics and make those the exclusives? Fans who go to these conventions would understand immediately since they will know the events in the g1 toon. It would show the toy makers are being loyal to events in the show and make the toy more special if they look different from the mass produced stuff instead of just being hard to get. (maybe they could even include on dvd episode retelling the event, and special packaging to add some legitamacy)

Just watch in order of production. That way you won't get confused about how primitive the look of the vf-1 is compared to the vf-0 and wonder why humans went retro in their clothing style, technology, and even body. (roy fokker looks different in SDf:macross. Indicating he is wearing a wig later on and some new experiment made him taller, possibly some OT being used on pilots without thier knowledge to make humans more giant? who knows...)

If only yamato did a high detail toy of that with inner details and stuff.

Maybe they can make a macross prison break? Guvava gets caught by some anti-un group. They put him on some prison ship. He is forced to work as a slave and must break free. Guvava steals an anti un valk and fights in it to escape. Each episode guvava comes up with new plans to avoid being detected and run from his pursuers for fear he will give away the locations of all the anti-un hidden bases. During the series he uncovers a plot to use the music to mind control new zentradi super soldiers (they've learnt to enhance their agression) to turn all zentradi soldiers working for the un to turn against them. (since we use them for soldiers) And this opens the way for the Anti-UN to take control of the militaries of the UN with ease. UN has to fight the zentradi all over again and come up with a song strong enough to counter the effect of this new song. Of course the series goes on long enough so the UN have to fight from a disadvantaged position to make it interesting. (depending on how many episodes this will go for) Destroids will be involved this time. And the hero will be half zentradi with a little bit of powers as seen from macross zero and various other macross shows. (levitation of rocks, using porn to make the male zentradi helpless and scared, copying basara's singing to make female zentradi useless fighters) The un will have a secret weapon of course: a deathstar that transforms into a giant robot like the sdf1 which is controlled by an AI in case UN loses control (or the crew dies) and as a last resort. Unfortunately this gets infiltrated by anti-un spies who upload a virus and hack into the AI of the ship which makes it backfire. Not even music will make this weapon listen since it is just a robot. Anti-un themselves lose control of the giant robot and it turns against them, not distinguishing between human UN, zentradi and anti-un. This is where guvava comes into the picture: he *sneaks onto the ship and reprograms it so its weapons are disabled and folds to another part of the universe where it can't be found. The end. We don't get an explanation to what happens to guvava and like the first macross tv series, we assume he died so fans won't ask anymore stupid questions about guvava. *because he is so small the the AI controlled planet doesn't see it as a threat and ignores it.

Can't we just say its a team effort? Humans started to sing and this revived basara from the grave. As you can see in one of the ovas singing can make plants grow faster.

his comments pretty much mirror mine for now: It's early days still though..

Funny console related youtube vids: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zqr1r9jIU0s ABAP - As Balla As Possible Says that news of Sony losing DMC3 exclusivity to other formats is ok. PS3 is ABAP. http://youtube.com/watch?v=PyPZhzgL8mQ Takes a swipes at nintendo wii, says that nintendo need to copy how to make good games. The wii controller is a dildo, and how it aint got games. The video is trying to convince you to buy the ps triple. Wii owners what do you think? Is the Wii ABAP like the ps3? Chad Warden looks like a pretty devoted ps3 fan. I own a wii and 360 so far but don't know if I want to get a ps3. So I thought I would go to youtube to seek some advice on whether I should buy one. The PS Triple sounds pretty awesome. Ballin

Yeah in the us version they swapped the names around. Hehe kinda confusing. And in the prequel series of SF, Nash for example refers to charlie in the us version. Argh why not just keep everything the same? That's why every time I mention a boss like vega or balrog I add (claw guy) or (boxer) so anyone reading it knows which person I am on about. Sagat is pretty sad case though to be honest. He had to copy ryu's dragon punch and make his own crappy version of it to keep up with ryu. Getting beat up by a short midget with a single punch that puts a scar on your chest can make you really angry.

Yeah this is a good thread to have. Capcom sometimes do it too: Balrog the boxer being mike tyson in the street fighter games. Feilong being a bruce lee clone. Namco did it with thier fighting game characters too: One of the characters in tekken 2 reminds me of jackie chan. (think of him from police story, note the fighting style) Also another bruce lee clone in that too. Contra to me is the most obvious one. How can you not see arnie and stallone's face in those characters? They made it a little too obvious.

The 1/48 vf-1 kicks ass. What were the improvements on the new 1/48 vf-1 that somebody mentioned? (like better stickers and stuff?)

If you are a fan of the tv series flightsuit get the brownie cannon fodder. If you like the spacesuit in dyrl get the kakizaki. (maybe at some future date this becomes rare or hard to find or something because people always go for the popular characters. But I doubt it) The fast packs look a little different in the tv series and movie. So maybe depending on what you like better then that can help you determine what is best for you.

Ok here's a quote from the original poster. I'm not saying his opinion is not valid, (there is no need to go on a witchhunt) as what is important to him may not be important for the rest of us "blinded fanboys of the 1/48". Just saying that: even if we know there are better things from other toy makers out there, the 1/48 to us fullfills what we see as imortant in a transforming toy. -durable enough to take some abuse. -not so heavy that it goes limp over time. (the diecast legs of the 1/72 for example mean it crashes heavily to the floor) -no paint chips everytime you transform the damn things -posable (easy to hold an arm out fully extended holding the gun) None of the criticisms like "feeling light" apply to me when I consider a toy. It might apply to you. But to me feeling light is a good thing. So long as the materials are strong. If the only reason you feel ripped off is because something feels light, then maybe you should stick to only diecast toys? Personally I would rather the money go to making the toy better in areas that matter, not in unecessarily adding weight for no reason. I don't think I would ever buy a diecast 1/48 vf-1 (let's just say it happens one day) if they offered no improvement over the existing one other than being heavier. Yes of course toys should feel solid, (much more than a model) but beyond a certain limit it stops to matter once the weight starts to affect poses, or feels dangerous to handle due to stress. (the diecast fast packs which put extra weight on the hinge in battroid mode for example) In some cases the extra weight is only going to be a hindrance to it, and affect how you can display the toy. Too much weight in one area may mean you have to pose the robot mode in such a way that it doesn't topple backward. I have problems with the Qrau for example and that is all plastic. Admittedly, it is a mech which is design funny (lots of bulk at the back) but it just illustrates that weight is something that should be considered only when necessary or when it affects how you can display something. If yamato put diecast in the legs of the Qrau I wonder if it would be as easy to topple backwards so easily like that? But better joints can solve this so I would hope they put more attention in that than just assuming that more weight somewhere else is better. Often you want to pose them with limbs out-stretched as if flying in space. In that instance more weight only adds stress.

The 1/48 are not that problematic though for me. They are durable enough to be easy to pose, and how heavy and weighty something is doesn't factor into how good quality something is. (that is just my own opinion as I don't consider myself a collector of toys, just a fan of macross and occassional transformer toys) One of the examples of this is how I prefer the alternators (cheaper plastic versions of the binaltech) transformer toys to the heavier and more expensive-feeling BinalTechs. If I were a collector maybe I can apreciate the more expensive feel of the toy. But as person who likes to hold the thing and transform it without damaging it (paint chips) I would much prefer the cheaper plastic alt because they are going to be less problematic in the long run. If I drop the alt on the ground it would just plop safely without much impact. Now about price, I think we as fans all eat the cost of the toy because as others have mentioned it is the only game in town. It's still the best vf-1 toy out there for now. Once other companies can compete, then prices might start to drop. As it is though, companies like bandai are probably too busy milking their gundam stuff to care much about macross. Until something comes around to beat the 1/48... Now many times you will see a person complain: it feels cheap cuz its so light. Being light isn't a problem for me so much as how it holds together and durability. Not all light toys are automatically "easy to break". You can have a cheap feeling toy be very sturdy. (see the bandai macross 7 toys. Nothing will break these) But so what? These look like little kids toys which are not aiming to be close to a model in sculpt where the finer bits have to included for people who want tiny details. I think the 1/48 combine lightness of the toy with detail, with being "practical to transform" to be its strong points. I don't want to transform my toy and every time a piece of paint scrapes off. It's annoying. Who cares how heavy it is? As for the breaking of first releases and inability to get replacement parts(due to HG issue): Totally agree with you. I hate how it keeps happening, but lucky for me I don't preorder things. I don't believe in it. If you are a collector of other toys and feel justified in your disapointment and feel ripped off, fair enough. But as a fan of macross, we are justified in saying that this is the best vf-1 out there so far. (regardless of whether we are being price gouged or not, or whether we know it) I actually don't see what is so great about the chunky munky but people can't stop loving those. Maybe the 1/48 fan is like the next chunky munky? Because it is the only thing people have to go by, we don't see how it could be improved enough to say anything bad about it.

When you put the Fast packs on the 1/48 it weighs it down a little. If it falls off desk and say lands headfirst onto a hard surface like non-carpeted floor, then you might snap a head laser or something off. I'm of the belief that lighter can sometimes mean more durable since the crushing weight won't put as much pressure on impact. Depends on what kind of abuse (wear and tear, falling over from a great height, rough handling) you are talking about. For me the konig monster is scary because of pegs. The vf-1 is scary more because of weight on the backpack hinge (taking off the FP is scarier than putting them on) and fear of it falling over when wearing the FP in bot mode. (eg you shake it and the thing might fall backwards of something)

That really sucks. So no orange cap thing was on? Doesn't surprise me. I wonder what would happen if it was just packaged in robot mode?

If this means improvements that is good news. The vf-1 MPC were not loved by rt fans that much. The alphas were improvements over those in quality. Now there will be improvements made to these alphas for sale as Legioss. Overall fans of the mecha should be happy to see slow gradual improvements as they now have more options. Definitely eager to see what buyers have to say about it. Maybe they could release two editions?: diecast versions and good durable plastic versions. Sort of like the binaltech vs the kissplay transformers. I'm not going to hold high expectations though. So are these modded clones going to be Limited edition or just toys they can milk the fan forever?