Hurin

toy-wave.com

I'm already over it. A piece of paper wedged in where it can't be seen and it's all better! Good luck with your crooked head!

The more I look at this thing, the more I like it. It seems bigger than it is. Just sitting on my desk right here. Especially when it's on its stand and its "arms" are swept out. Remember, it's actually taller than 1/60 VF-1s. It just puts every other SDF-1 toy previously released to absolute shame. NICE! H

Mini-Review. Got mine about an hour ago. I certainly don't regret my purchase. However, there is one disappointment. One of my main gun booms is very floppy and loose. Just typing with it here on my desk, it's vibrating all over the place. Others have said that all their joints are super-tight. So I guess I'm just unlucky. Having said that, it doesn't look shiny at all sitting here on my desk with quite a bit of ambient sunlight in the room. I'm pleasantly surprised. It also doesn't look small at all. It's a perfect "desk piece" for giving that Macross "buzz" whenever you look over at it. Has anyone put up an image of the old Bandai/Matchbox next to this yet? Well, if not, here's one: The Bandai/Matchbox one just looks silly to me now that I've got the Wave. It's just so much more detailed and looks like the actual anime Macross. The Bandai/Matchbox now looks like a Fisher-Price toy to me. Cameras don't do the finish on this product justice. They always make it look shinier than it actually does to the naked eye. I can't seem to take a picture of it that accurately reflects that it is not as shiny as it appears in images. Finally, just because I'm a.retentive, here's a link to a 4MB video (low quality, taken on my wife's desk -- hence the flowery crap) of the wobbly main gun boom. Boo! I figure I'll just cram some paper or cardboard in there. It's jiggling now as I type this.

Yeah, he had referred to it before. He's just trying to add more info. I have to concur with TwoDucks, the hardest part is getting those legs to pull down. Definitely take a *good* look at all the joints in the area and be aware of what needs to happen before you start tugging. Here's an image that might help along with TwoDuck's tips. Sorry it's so blurry. But I'm not about to re-transform mine to get a better one! [attachmentid=41046] Thanks for the tips TwoDucks! Gave me the courage to pull far harder than I otherwise would have. . . but it was necessary!

That's the first I've seen of that release. Is it official? I note that the publisher is listed as "Woori." Are they legit? Finally, YesAsia has it listed as non-region encoded. The subtitling process removes region encoding, but it would still be nice for the original DVD to be playable in region 1 players as well. Best, H

Now that it's all over and won't be misinterpreted as taunting. . . I gotta say, I thought this was the most hilarious post of the whole thread: Nice!

I dunno, when HLJ sells out, I start getting nervous and usually go into "panic buying" mode wherever I can find it. As I did in this case.

It would be stupid for it not to have one! I mean, even if it never appears in the stupid, kiddy show, think of how cool a toy that would be! It's lame that they didn't give it a sword. Especially because we never see Hikaru take a crap! And, if it doesn't have a sword, how does it defend itself against the other giant robots with swords?

do not disturb, I'd take issue with a bit of that (big surprise!). But I have a Dr. Appointment that I'm leaving for this very moment. So I'll edit this post later and add a bit if the mood should strike me. ----------Begin Edit------------------ Sorry this is so long! Though there was certainly sarcasm later on. I certainly wouldn't characterize attempts at humor via analogies to be sarcasm in my first few posts. See, I wouldn't characterize how he responded as non-argumentative. Just restating a position in a different way while ignoring counter-evidence is, to my mind, an intellectually dishonest way of going about a discussion. I pointed out that the toy is accurate according to the anime, and that it should hardly differ from the anime just to suit his personal (ill-founded) feelings about how the Macross should pose. He ignored this and instead wanted to talk about prior toy designs (which also were accurate! Not that he would realize this.). As you said, my next reply was long and very polite while I tried to get through to him. It was at that point where he said that he doesn't give a crap about the anime, and that we must just like inferior toys because we don't share his opinion. Now, you essentially give him a pass on that. But actually consider what that means. It means, essentially: "Those who disagree with me like inferior things. Those who want anime-accurate toys like inferior toys." At that point, we're quickly leaving the realm of polite, civilized discussion. And, as I said, at this point, I don't believe I've yet been sarcastic or even aggressive. Rather, he realizes he's losing ground and starts to get nasty. It's only at this point that I get a bit sarcastic because I realize that he's not the type to say: "Well, I guess I just wish it would be a bit more dynamic, but if it's not that way in the anime, I guess that's just the way it is." So, yeah, I make a joke or two there via more analogies (that are still intending to make a point). And some sarcasm creeps in. . . but on the whole, I think I still maintained a measure of decorum. I certainly wasn't flaming him. To be clear, he doesn't get pissed at this point because of what I've said, he's pissed because he's wrong. And he's not the type to be able to admit that he might be in error and just move on. Instead, he just barrels forward and muddles into more bizarre stuff like the "Rocky is never shown crapping" logic and the "If it doesn't have knees, how does it walk" conundrum. Now, at this point, I'm annoyed because the guy is just spouting ignorant, ridiculous nonsense, and totally ignoring inconvenient facts (such as the larger image I then post of the head not turning). And by this time, it's pretty apparent what type of person we're dealing with here. The "Where's Hurin now?" taunting was the last straw. Especially since, when he wrote that, I was attempting to actually find evidence for the debate. I was further annoyed by his ability to say that what the Macross does in the anime is irrelevant, and then latch onto what it does in the anime whenever it did suit him. So, at that point, the gloves are off. Yet, I still don't think I crossed a major bright line in behavior considering the things he was saying by this time. Going back a little though. . . Well, technically, I posted the pic, not him. He wasn't big on providing evidence. And I actually said: "I call bullshit. Where on the box?" I didn't ask him to prove me wrong. I asked him to just back up one thing that he was saying. And when he pointed out which image, I immediately got a sinking feeling because I knew that the image was too small to show anything. . . so I knew I was either dealing with someone who was dishonestly claiming that it "clearly" showed something that it did not (and hoping I wouldn't bother to check or get a bigger version). . . or just totally unfamiliar with how the Macross looks and was confused by the image. Either way, I found myself just thinking: "Great. Now I have to go find a larger version of that just to get this guy to freakin' shut up already." There was a lot of that. Just a sense that this guy was so far off his rocker and so ignorant of what he was talking about that it was going to take a lot of work to convince him of anything. The "how does it walk" was a "ding ding ding!" moment. Where, if he had just been a more reasonable person, he might have just said: "Oh, I didn't know. Still, I wish it posed more dynamically. But I understand it's just not in the nature of the design." Anyways, while I don't think you and I still have an ongoing beef, and I'm happy to discuss this with you, I do think maybe our prior altercations are subtly coloring your interpretation of these events. I just get the feeling that you tend to cut him more slack for his statements and are more prone to giving him the benefit of the doubt. Whereas, in my case, you are more likely to see sarcasm and inflammatory language where I don't believe there is any. But, that's fair since this is the internet and tone is difficult to determine. Whew, I'm spent. Best, H

Sorry guys. Please indulge me since haterist's comments make me feel obliged to comment on exactly what went wrong in this thread. . . I may just move all this junk to a feedback thread anyways. . . Conversation as it should have gone: =============================================== Jim: This toy should really be able to bend its knees and turn its head. It needs to be more dynamic. Hurin: You do realize that it doesn't do any of those things in the series or movie, right? It doesn't even have knees. Jim: Oh, I've never seen the anime. I just thought the toy looked cool so I bought it. My mistake. Larry: Actually, Hurin, according to this schematic, it does have knees. Hurin: Well I'll be damned! Though, it's not really clear that those "knees" can rotate all that much. THE END =============================================== Conversation as it went (dramatic liberties taken): =============================================== Jim: This toy should really be able to bend its knees and turn its head. It needs to be more dynamic. Hurin: You do realize that it doesn't do any of those things in the series or movie, right? It doesn't even have knees. Jim: So what! It would be a better toy if it did! And the box shows it turning its head. Besides, I'm sure it can turn its head since I just broke mine to make it do so. And Rocky never took a crap on-screen! Hurin: That image on the box doesn't show it turning its head. Here's a larger version. See? Jim: So what! The anime is stupid anyways! It looks better turning its head. More dynamic! And it should be able to do flying kicks. So it's stupid that it has no knees! Hurin: You can't be serious. The Macross just doesn't do that stuff! It doesn't have knees because it doesn't need them. Jim: Oh yeah? Well, if it doesn't have knees, how does it walk then, tough guy? Hurin: Everyone: It doesn't walk! Jim: Oh. Well, it's just a stupid toy for a stupid kid show. Oh, and I've never seen it. Hurin: Should you really be calling the show stupid here? What point does that serve? And isn't it a bit moronic to assert that the toy needs knees so that it can walk when in fact, it doesn't walk. . . ever? Haven't you just demonstrated that you're too ignorant about why the SDF-1 appears the way it does to contribute intelligently to this conversation? Jim: What!?! You called me a moron! (REPORT!) Help help! I'm being repressed! Oh, and Macross is stupid. Roy: This is retarded. Jim: Oppression! Tyranny! You're calling me a retard! Oh, and Macross is lame. Larry: Actually, Hurin, according to this schematic, it does have knees. Jim: See! I was right all along! I've proved it has knees! Though I had no evidence to base it on and it's just sheer dumb luck, the Macross does have a joint there! The anime (that I think is stupid and irrelevant to what makes a good toy) has proven me right! Hurin: Well I'll be damned! Though, it's not really clear that those "knees" can rotate all that much. So, I'm not sure I'd call them "knees." Thanks for pointing that out. Jim: I was right! Also, Macross is lame. You all like a kiddy show and inferior toys! And Mechamaniac can go f' himself. BAN THE END ================================================= (let's not forget the multiple warnings) ------------------------------------------------------------ The point is that if anyone wants to have the first conversation, there'd be no problem. Even now. Discussion of whether the Macross has knees, elbows, or an appendix is welcome.

Please note that nobody else has been banned. People who have constructive, polite things to add to the debate aren't being banned. And I didn't "rag" on you for posting those images originally. Nor am I ragging on anyone who posted the schematics. Instead, I'm conceding that there is a joint there. What got him "ragged on" was his attitude (beginning almost immediately with "Macross fans are happy with inferior toys") and that he tried to make arguments like "If it doesn't have knees, how does it walk?" which only demonstrated that he had no idea what he was talking about. But of course, that didn't stop him from repeatedly insulting a show and a movie that he'd never seen (and by extension, its fans). As soon as his preference for a "dynamically poseable" Macross toy was (politely and jovially) pointed out to be at odds with what the actual anime design encompassed, he started letting loose with these little gems: He was treated politely until comments like that began piling up. So you can claim he was "ragged on". . . but between those comments, the taunting, and the bizarre level of arrogance he displayed, I don't think a little "ragging" was inappropriate. Now he wants to portray himself as a victim, and you're apparently buying into it. Despite evidence recently found that this isn't the first message board that has banned him for "flagrant trolling" and "flaming." Oh yeah, and he told MM to "f--k off."

Yep, we've already seen that shot where it looks like it's practically sitting indian style or squatting on a toilet. But, as I pointed out originally, a split-second later, you see the following: So, it's pretty clear that the "squatting" shot is an animation error as often seen in background images. I mean, that shot is showing the Macross with flexibility well beyond just knees. I stand corrected that there is actually a joint there (albeit pretty high up on the leg) that could be considered a "knee" by some. Though, of course, this concession goes out to those who actually base this on knowledge of the design rather than people who have never seen it and just want to pose their Macross toy like a ninja. Though, as others have said, a "knee" isn't a "knee" unless it gives a pretty full range of movement. That joint appears to move no more than a few degrees throughout both the movie and the series. So it is probably just there for navigational purposes (steering the ship through minute adjustments while in cruiser mode). Regarding it bending in the series: After the "rain of death", it flies down with its legs looking almost like they are fused together (but straight) and then settles into a crater. I don't recall any bending or even an opportunity to do so. We pretty much just see it from the waist up as it settles into the crater.

No Orko = Thumbs up.

The matchbox/bandai toy does this a bit (barely).

Says the guy who collects toys from Transformers (that is a Kid's show!) and several others. Man. . . it just keeps getting worse for you. By the way, you've passed the threshold. And you're now just being kept around for amusement. Generally speaking, you don't come onto a fansite and insult the property around which it is based. . . and its fans. . . and expect to stick around long. Honestly, the only reason you're still here is because you're a train wreck. And I just can't bare to look away yet. Again, pointing out your ignorance isn't an "attack". . . ignorance means "lack of knowledge." And since you readily admit that you haven't seen Macross, you're ignorant as to whether it is a "kiddy show" or not (and indeed, how a Macross toy should be posed). This is not an attack. It is a fact. Your ignorance is manifest and obvious thanks to your total inability to keep your mouth shut and stop exposing yourself as such. Now. . . final warning (everyone). Drop it.

Hmmmm. . . let's go through some of the things that I'm sure has endeared you to everyone here from the very beginning. It is just poor form to walk onto a fansite, make silly complaints that are totally baseless (hey, the SDF-1 should have a sword too!), let stuff like that fall out during the "debate". . . And then expect everyone to treat your views with the utmost respect. So, you are far from the affronted party here. Everyone else, let's get this thread back on track. While I personally appreciate some of the sentiments, we can't really ask him to drop it if nobody else does. H P.S. Macross was originally a Japanese anime before it was "kiddified" by Harmony Gold and transformed into "Robotech." If you think anime in Japan is for kids, you're just once again demonstrating your ignorance.

Animation error. As you yourself all but conceded. And since you all but conceded it and now seem to be just baiting and perpetuating a settled issue, I feel compelled to just encourage you to drop this topic. This thread is getting horribly derailed and we're not going to let it become your personal playground where you can meander back-and-forth between your contradictory points. If you want to turn the head of your SDF-1, congratulations. If you prefer it that way, good for you. Anyone who knows what that toy represents will think the turned head looks silly. And were the toy to be unable to do so, nobody familiar with the SDF-1 Macross design would consider it a flaw. But if that's what turns you on, more power to you. Just don't start asserting that it clearly does so in the anime when it doesn't. And then start crying "abuse!" when you're proven wrong. Okay, let this drop. I don't want to lock this thread, which only leaves us one other alternative.

The key word there is "indirect." Not only that, but you suddenly become exquisitely sensitive as soon as you get pinned down and your bold, arrogant assertions are demonstrated to be wrong. What, no more taunting? No more telling us that we just like "inferior toys?" How about calling the anime "stupid?" That, my friend isn't worthy of anyone. And, given your tone, ignorance (and the perplexing level of arrogance that accompanied it), you're fortunate to have gotten off as lightly as you have. As for you not being "wrong" because it "had knees at some point in the show, even if it was an error." Does this mean that I can demand a Max VF-1A with missles mounted on the tail? After all, even though it was in error, it appeared for a moment! I'm entitled! In fact, I think it's lame that the VF-1 toys don't have "error missiles" on their tails! I note that you suddenly don't want to discuss the Macross turning its head now either. How convenient. Must have slipped your mind. Arrogance when someone does know what they're talking about is bad enough. We're all guilty of that from time-to-time. But arrogance and certainty from someone who is almost comically ignorant of the subject matter into which he's wading is annoying, even as it amuses. I don't mind people being ignorant about Macross. I don't mind someone asking how the Macross walks without knees. Or what good a head is if it doesn't turn. It just shows that they have no friggin' idea about the anime, or about how/why the Macross transforms. But, if they're being cool about it, plenty of us will take the time to politely explain it to them and/or direct them to watch the anime. No problem there! You did something very different. You're basically making all these ignorant, laughable statements while asserting that the original designs of the mecha shouldn't matter and that accuracy should have been discarded so that you can turn its heads and bend its (non-existent) knees. Then you bounce back and forth between saying that the original design shouldn't matter, and that the original design does allow for what you want (with no acknowledgment of the contradiction). In between, of course, you're telling us that we just like "inferior toys" and that the anime is "lame." If you want the SDF-1 to pose like a friggin' Valkyrie, you just simply bought the wrong toy. And an SDF-1 that poses like a Valkryie wouldn't be the SDF-1 Macross. But, of course, having apparently never seen any of the anime, you have no clue how the Macross should look. Or, as someone else put it: But you don't know enough about what you bought to know this and would rather attack those who point this out to you. H Edit: Please stop editing the entirety of your posts.

Ah, the call of the truly desperate! Is this how you handle being wrong? To quote you back to yourself: "So you won't even admit that you were just plain wrong?" Regarding your "report" for "flaming." I suggest you look under my avatar where it says: "Group" After a thorough investigation of this matter, I've decided not to ban myself. Indeed, while I've merely accurately characterized your behavior throughout this thread (which you seem to consider "flaming"). . . you've engaged in taunting ("Where's Hurin now?") and worse even while you exposed yourself as ignorant and. . . well. . . wrong. Please note, however, that despite this, you have not been banned, suspended, or even warned. Yet you (apparently unaware that I was an admin) attempted to have me disciplined for flaming you? That's fantastic!

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But not all opinions are created equal. Those who wander into a discussion with little to no knowledge of the subject involved should excercise some discretion when making their points and contradicting others rather than just spouting nonsense, half-truths, and flat-out wrong assertions based in ignorance. This particular gentleman first asserted that the toy should have features that its source does not. When this was pointed out to him, he stated with certainty that an image clearly shows something that it in fact does not (head turning). Then he asserted that Macross fans just like "inferior toys" (because we don't want knees on our SDF-1?). All the while, he's stating things that merely betray his ignorance such as: "If it doesn't have knees. . . how does it walk?" To which, anyone even vaguely familiar with the anime would answer: "It doesn't. Moron." Again, everyone can have an opinion. But a wise person is a bit more careful when discussing something with which he has no familiarity.

I won't. . . when I'm not. Ah, so this tiny picture clearly shows the head turned? So. . . let's go to the anime shall we and look at a blown-up picture of what you think is "clear." That's as good as you're ever going to see that image. And, as you can see, nothing is clear at all. But wait, it gets better! That shot is actually a zoomed out "context shot" that is faded to from a close up of the head/bridge (the intent being to "zoom out" from the bridge with no change in angle). Here's the close-up before the fade out: Okay. . . so on to the "knees". . . As I suspected, less than a second after we see the image posted above that seems to show knees, we see this: Which looks nothing like what was shown in the image where it apparently has knees, less than a second prior. But, of course, this one was most likely handled by the "A team" as it is a primary element . While the one seen above with the "knees" was a background and probably drawn by a "B team" which is less well versed in the mechanical design of each mecha/ship. And, just for fun. . . here is the Macross still lying there six minutes later as it begins to lift off again. Again, no "knees": So now, I assume you'll say none of this matters because the head "should" turn and it "should" have knees and that you can "assume" that such things are actually there even though they aren't in the original designs because Rocky never took a crap on-screen. But, well, most people who want Macross toys want those toys to be accurate to the original designs and line art. And it's poor form to come into a fansite for an intellectual property and say that you wish they had been less accurate only to satisfy your arbitrary notion of what makes a "cool" toy. Again, you might as well join a Star Wars discussion group and say that a Death Star toy should be able to "open" at the equator so that it can "eat" starships . It never did so in the movies, but we never saw Luke take a leak either! So we can assume it can!

Admit I was wrong? Proven wrong? There are official mechanical drawings and lineart for the Macross. They do not show a knee. The Macross's legs are big long blocks. There is no place for a knee. Now, if the Macross is shown settling in one way, and then a background image shows it settling a different way in a fashion that contradicts the lineart and design. . . what you have is an animation error. Do you know how many animation errors there are throughout the series, and even several in DYRL? If you "could care less" about the anime, you would. And you wouldn't be taking such an annoying tone with people who know a lot more about this anime than you do. Dude, a few seconds ago, you were wondering how the Macross walks. So, you might want to calm down a bit here. I think I located my digital copy of DYRL and I'm copying it over to my hard drive now. We'll have screenshots soon. And though it's rare, most people who know me here know that I am totally capable of admitting when I'm mistaken. In the meantime, like I said, simmer down. H

You. . . sir. . . need to simmer down. Tell me. Do you also think it would be cool if the Macross could dismount one of its main gun booms and wield it as a club? That would rock! Man, they were stupid to not allow that with the toy! H

Ah, posted image. Okay. . . I can see where you could interpret that as knees. But I think once you see the screenshot of it settling just an instant prior, you'll see that this is a trick of perspective.