Noyhauser

Umm Hi. I'm being a traitor from my side (in models), but I'm actually really really excited for this series, and I'll actually buy my first macross toy, the YF-21. It looks pretty sweet; and being from a modeler background, I'd rather have good posability but with accuracy; this fits the bill perfectly. TBH I prefer it much more than the Revo stuff... this actually looks like the line art, rather than a stylized version of the line art. You sold me on this one Graham. If I like it enough I might get that VF-11 too.

Even if the VF-0 was a prototype, it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the size difference. The VF-0 is a conventional engined fighter the VF-1 is a thermonuclear fighter. the VF-0 has a limited supply of fuel (which it must carry) meaning its got to be much larger than the VF-1 which has no such constraints. The fuel constraints also mean that the fighter needs to be more efficient (read aerodynamic) so that it gets better range. The VF-1 doesn't, it can fly for days on end so its less bothered by such constraints. Only in later fighters does aerodynamics become a greater concern, probably because designers now moved to squeeze every inch of performance when faced with incremental increases in technology. Moreover its made apparent that the VF-1's engine is much smaller (probably the reason why they needed extra time to perfect it.)

Ugh... for the last time... The VF-1 is not so much smaller than any other fighter. ITs smaller, probably because its a first generation thermonuclear engined variable fighter. Lets do a little comparison. (IOS) Type: Length - Wingspan - Empty Mass (2010) VF-1: 14.23m - 14.87m - 13250 kg (2012) VF-4: 14.92m - 14.28m - 13950 kg (2018) VF-5000:14.03m - (N/A) - 8300 kg (2030) VF-11: 15.51m - 11.2m - 9000 kg (2035) VF-17: 15.63M - 14.18m - 11850 kg (2041) VF-19A: 18.62m - 14.87m - 8750 kg (2045) VF-22: 19.62m - 15.36m - 9550 kg So you see a progressive increase in size as well as a lowering of weight. The VF-1 is not out of size compared to its contemporaries, its smaller, but its not even the smallest; thats the VF-5000, the VF-1/VF-4 successor. The VF-1 is the start of a new generation of aircraft built on overtechnology. They are smaller, lighter, faster than their jet contemporaries. It has parallels with the start in the jet age... lets make another comparison: (1949) F-86: 11.4m - 11.3m - 5046 kg (1954) F-100: 15.2m - 11.81m - 9500 kg (1960) F-4: 19.2m - 11.7m - 13757 kg (1976) F-15C: 19.43m - 13.05m - 12700 kg (2006) F-22: 18.90 m - 13.56m - 14365 kg So you see a similar progression in size and weight as the UNS Fighters over the years Now lets make one final comparison, the VF-0 (2008) VF-0 18.69 m - (N/A) - 16191 kg The Comparison of the VF-0 after the modern fighters is deliberate: it is closer akin to them in design than the Variable fighters. Its a jet fighter: it has a jet engine, with jet fuel, meaning its going to be larger than its thermonuclear engined counterparts. The VF-1 is the start of a new generation of fighters, and its size is not out of the ordinary. So the VF-1 is not out of size or different. Its actually remarkably consistent.

Well I can deal with the movement to some degree... partly because it was common to DYRL. Its the whole "using the macross to open up the maw so they can escape" and then "putting the carrier on the back to have two hands to fire the gun" parts that made me cringe the most.

Radd, my comment comparing M1/4 to valkyrie was a hyperbole, but I still found the entire sequence over the top. Again I'm not trying to be overly nitpicky, and I like almost everything else about the series... just it didn't really seem to be as if it was needed to make the episode better.

Well I didn't vote negative, but there were a couple of things that didn't make it the "most amazing episode ever" for me/ It was going really good until the whole Macross Quarter sequence... thats where I thought they went downhill fast. It seemed to me be something more appropriate for Gurren Laggan than Macross. Up until this point Macross bent the laws of physics in alot of places, but this really took a willing suspension of disbelief to watch it accelerate to high speeds in seconds and weave around as if it were big valkyrie. Up until this point warships were represented as fairly static units that carried massive amounts of weaponry. You could make the argument that it was like that in DYRL... but this seemed so much more contrived and unbelievable. And then to have it go and open the gun mouth of the battleship was ridiculous. Risking SMS's main piece of hardware to save two pilots by opening up an aperture pushes the envelope of believability, as did the whole put the carrier on its back to hold onto the cannon idea. If people were complaining about battle 7 having fingers, this was an order of magnitude worse than before. You can hate on me all you want, I still love this series and think its great. But I could have done without the Macross 1/4 theatrics.

From these photos I should say I do really like the battroid, but not the fighter. As other people point out the break points look noticeable in fighter mode and I think the intakes look oversized. In some way it kinda reminds me a bit of the VF-2ss Macross II line (to use a more apt analogy than the VF-1 comment.) Its got the same design philosophy with a coloured canopy, decent detail but the proportions seem a bit off in fighter mode (The VF-2 was wider I think, while this one seems a bit fat from the side view.) I'll probably buy one and add it to my collection of 1/72 Battroids. I'd love to see it with Ozma's armoured battroid.

Among more experienced Gunpla makers, its common for them to remove the pins entirely for a better fit.

No of course not, but I think what Hase has put out is a much better "model" product both in realism and construction, than the bandai model. They were able to strike a balance on it which I think most people appreciated (though some complained it was a bit too much). Sorry from the tone of your previous post it seemed as if you were coming off as the usual gundam noobie. And I agree with you that bandai has had great advances in technology, yet I think its debateable whether modeling has really profited because of it. Molded colour doesn't really interest me given I paint everything (though I did build a Gundam MKII using the no-paint method), neither does markless sprue cuts for the same reason. Now I look at what Dragon has done with its 1/35 tank line (slide moldings particularly) and I'd consider that huge advance. Maybe bandai uses it and I'm crawling up the wrong tree, I'm not sure, but thats particularly what I'm referring to.

Hey I can see the photos, the fighter mode has a blue canopy, you can see some of the details on the Battroid, I think that indicates this is alot closer to the production version than whats on the first page which was clearly a prototype. With the VF-1 comparison, I meant to say that with a transforming fighter its less of a model than lets say a static model. Its like the difference between the transformable SHE VF-4 and the Club M VF-4. Nice to have both, but I like the Club M first, then the SHE. I don't think you can disagree that is not a legitimate perspective. In the end I'll probably still buy two or three, build them, scribe them ect in three different modes. But I can't say I'll be happy doing it if its going to be like this.

Actually I disagree with you. We saw the rapid prototypes back in January, these seem to be alot further down the production line than that. If they're already painting them, adding simulated decals, and you can see details that suggest this is near production. Moreover, I think most "modelers" would take great issue with your point that Bandai is at the forefront of model design and technology. Hasegawa/Tamiya/Dragon/Fine Scale probably own that distinction depending on what area/scale you're talking about. Bandai builds decent gundams, but I don't consider snap fit, thick plastic, lesser detail stuff that comes on plastic sprues, models. They sorta sit in this nether region between models and toys. And if you think this is rapid fanboyism at work, think again. I'd like to think modelers on here as professionals or craftsmen (to a certain extent more than someone who watches a couple of TV flicks and say "his hands are too small). Most of us have been building stuff for decades and can tell the difference in quality pretty quickly. Bandai has a notorious history when it comes to models, which is why alot of us are already skeptical. One of the reasons we had some hope was the presence of Hasegawa, which has been giving us high quality macross model products for the last six years. Some of us hoped that there would be enough competition to push Bandai out of their ways and towards a more realism oriented market. These photos suggest otherwise.

First PPB and Omni might be a false distinction, one system can do both. However given that most space tactics is to keep your fleet back and let fighters approach, you really just need to cover a small axis out in front, and reinforce it. Its not as if you're going to send your colony into the thick of a battle.

Honestly? Can you just drop it already? Most of us didn't care for your arguments in the last thread, and I'd rather not see another thread ruined with that sort of tripe.

Its not really a gimmick when the design is so boring

How am I not surprised. I'll keep my judgement until I see it... but I'm not holding my breath. If its going to be like the Bandai VF-1 transformable fighter, I'll be terribly disappointed.

Agreed. That and Guld's last fight. IF you need to up your Macross 7 component, Ep 26 with the appearance of VF-11 Full Armor and Kinryu's last fight is pretty good too.

DH probably is following this more closely but with the A-380 it seems as if they are getting their production lines sorted out; they delays seems to be 7 or 8 planes over one to two years over 30 or so produced. Not too serious. The Dreamliner's problem is in design; which means the planes can't be produced and delivered until the work is completed. Their problems push back all the orders, meaning its a serious problem for Boeing's profits. Also here is an article about the airplane business as it stands today http://www.ft.com/cms/s/1/945e8e24-2191-11...0077b07658.html

You're one step ahead of yourself. The VF-11 didn't replace the VF-4; that was the VF-5000, which the VF-11 replaced.

Umm March, thats my point. I've (and you) been talking about this for like three years now. All of a sudden EVERYBODY is talking about it as canon.

Actually I can see them persisting with the VF-11s until recently. The fighter was good enough against the Zentradi remnants, which is the main opponent (N)UNS would expect to face. We see a wide array of fighters throughout the universe; Zolans use VF-5000s, the VA-14 was used by Macross 5's fleet and VF-X2 suggests the VF-1 Plus is a common fighter design throughout the UNS. As an aside (and not to toot my own horn too much), its weird now to hear all of you talk about the economics of Macross fighters as if its sorta canon.

If that was the case I'd almost guarantee people would be on here complaining about the shortcuts the Satellite took on not even filling in people's faces.

Hi Remember me? I'm the program that can't seem to stay on schedule (and just because I love FT so much) How a European Company is beating EADS

Sorry to disappoint, we already had one in 2050. I'm increasingly convinced there will be a link with VFX-2

Yeah I don't know about most people, but I wouldn't agree to a one way recon mission to an area where the enemy has just wiped out a whole Fleet. I think most people would probably desire that UN Spacy figure a way for me to get back.

^ March's next sentence is kinda important for putting that into context. It doesn't matter though, there is an example in Macross 7 where a VF-11 operated without one leg, at least for a couple of seconds.