Airbrush Madness

[Myersjessee]

So...I have a simple single action badger airbrush...and I love it. I'm sure I could be doing a lot more..but it serves it's purpose. However, as I get into smaller and smaller scale items I'd like to have a more precise tool, and I was wondering what everyone else uses or would recomend. I was looking at some of the Iwata's..which I know are nice, but I want to balance quality of the tool with price of parts. I dont want to end up with a pricey paperweight that I can't maintain due to outrageous parts costs.

So...whatcha got...whatcha use?!?

Cheers!

[captain america]

So...I have a simple single action badger airbrush...and I love it. I'm sure I could be doing a lot more..but it serves it's purpose. However, as I get into smaller and smaller scale items I'd like to have a more precise tool, and I was wondering what everyone else uses or would recomend. I was looking at some of the Iwata's..which I know are nice, but I want to balance quality of the tool with price of parts. I dont want to end up with a pricey paperweight that I can't maintain due to outrageous parts costs.

So...whatcha got...whatcha use?!?

Cheers!

Hiya Jesse!

I have a few guns myself: Iwata RG-2, Iwata HP-C, Iwata HP-BC, Iwata Eclipse, and even an old Badger dual-action. If you want something with multi-use capability, I would highly recommend the Iwata HP-C or whatever the newest variant of that particular airbrush is. Loads easier to clean than a suction-fed unit, plus it's a real workhorse: easy to maintain, reliable, and capable of very fine work.

[Myersjessee]

Hiya Jesse!

I have a few guns myself: Iwata RG-2, Iwata HP-C, Iwata HP-BC, Iwata Eclipse, and even an old Badger dual-action. If you want something with multi-use capability, I would highly recommend the Iwata HP-C or whatever the newest variant of that particular airbrush is. Loads easier to clean than a suction-fed unit, plus it's a real workhorse: easy to maintain, reliable, and capable of very fine work.

Thanks John! In your answer you actually raised another question I've been wondering about. You mention the C is easier to clean then suction feed. Currently with my Badger it's a bottom feed suction system. I have about 2-dozen glass paint jars that I premix and two caps with the suction insert...so when I'm painting I simply attach one of the tube-caps to a paint glass....paint...then spray some thinner through and move onto the next color. The gravity feed systems seem to me like I'd be constantly cleaning the attached cup and constantly dumping paint. I'm sure I'm missing something though...how do you handle that?

[captain america]

Thanks John! In your answer you actually raised another question I've been wondering about. You mention the C is easier to clean then suction feed. Currently with my Badger it's a bottom feed suction system. I have about 2-dozen glass paint jars that I premix and two caps with the suction insert...so when I'm painting I simply attach one of the tube-caps to a paint glass....paint...then spray some thinner through and move onto the next color. The gravity feed systems seem to me like I'd be constantly cleaning the attached cup and constantly dumping paint. I'm sure I'm missing something though...how do you handle that?

The HP-C has the paint cup built into the airbrush body; the advantage (to me) is that you can clean it much better by using a spray bottle to get windex (or similar cleaner) in there, as well as a Q-tip to really wipe away any traces of paint residue. The problem with suction-feed (glass bottles) is that if you just dump cleaner in the paint bottle and suction it in, you will always invariably have a small residue of paint that will accumulate on the paint feed tunnel. Over time, that can accumulate and eventually restrict the flow of paint, or, depending on what colors you use, the previous color you sprayed might "leech" into the new paint you're applying.

Also, suction feed is a bit of a PITA if you're just spraying with a very small amount of paint (like when touching-up, etc) and is a bit more wasteful. Further, you have to make sure that the tip of the suction tube is fully immersed, or you'll get an air "hiccup." This is not to say that it's a bad system, it's actually a good airbrush for medium/medium-large areas to be sprayed, whereas the HP-C is more for small to medium jobs.

As with any airbrush, just make sure you clean it religiously, and never let it sit or put it away dirty. Remove and clean the needle after every use, or better yet, after every color you spray. If you use it a lot, I recommend disassembling it and putting the main parts in an ultrasonic cleaner overnight. All this might sound like a lot of work, but it becomes quite routine after a while; I've had my HP-BC for over 20 years, and it still works excellent.

[PetarB]

After using Paasche for 20 years... I've recently bought a couple of Iwata - one being the gravity-feed Eclipse. Best move I've made, in terms of hobby equipment!

[Myersjessee]

Good information...thank you both. I just spent a couple hours reading about Iwata's. I noticed there was a side feed HP-SB that allows for a gravity cup and a siphon cup...I'm a little partial to siphon as I like being able to paint a few colors quickly (paint...blow thinner through..switch cups, paint)...but you make good points that a high percent of the time gravity will be better. Is side a reasonable middle ground for me to have a little of both, or is it just gonna suck?

[Noyhauser]

I don't know if it will. Way back when I had a siphon feed Badger then went to brushes for convenience (I moved around alot). Then last year I first picked up an Iwata Revolution CR and loved it.... As with the Captain I find gravity feed just that much simpler to use; cleanup usually involves a bit of lacquer thinner (which cleans almost any product I use) a simple wipe of the cup on most days, then remove the needle for the night. Changing paints mid job isn't that tough; I find its more a question of good planning and estimation of the paint you use. Put just enough in for the job; do a quick clean with windex or alcohol, then put in the next paint. Easy as that. Two things I find that are useful: Iwata superlube (which I hear KY is an good substitute but I've never used it) and a proper cleaning set.

Anyway, the CR is a versatile machine; Its more robust than the normal Iwata, but still has great performance. My only beef was the lack of definition; its great for painting large areas but not for small things like exhaust lines, cordite burns, and oil stains. So I picked up a used HP-B plus, its an extremely fine airbrush. I only use it for like 10% of what I do, but its really useful in those places. And it is delicate. I clumsily dropped the nozzle a few months ago and it needed replacing, total cost was fifty dollars (and I got a deal). The same part on the CR was half that. It was a bit of a fluke but its still a concern as you note.

Now in the last month I've worked without the HP-B and still been able to do most of the stuff I need. Certainly its harder and the chances of screwing up is higher. For example In the past I may have did the entire upper wing of the hornet below with the CR in the lighter color, then shade the individual panels with the HB-C. Without it, I used the CR to do the entire top with the darker color, then filled in the major parts on top with the lighter colors, leaving the darker color shading the panel lines. So I still am able to do most things in a pinch. The question is whether that added convenience is worth the price to you.

Im sorry for the long explanation... I thought it might be useful for you if I give you all the information and let you decide whether its worth the price. I hope it helps.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Noyhauser

[Myersjessee]

Interesting. Sounds like I need to get better at planning and cleaning. I'm spoiled with the siphon badge paint swap and found gravity to be cumbersome, but everyone I hear from seems to think I have it reversed. Sounds like I need more practice and a better process. Thank you all for the thoughts.

[VF-19]

I'm using a Badger 155 at the moment. I know it's suction feed, but it's miles above my Badger 200. It doesn't need any tools to take apart, and it's simple to clean and maintain. Heck, it even came with a little metal cup that plugs into the suction feed, and that comes in handy from time to time.

[THOR]

badger's SOTAR 20/20: "This is the finest air brush ever made" it said so on the box. The 20/20 is the American airbrush version of a stealth fight . You can spray a hair line all day long it spray like a Rapidograph draws lines. It is easy to use one of the smoothest triggers in the air brush world. It has a crazy amount of control, and comfort, small, perfectly weighted, beautifully designed, nice needles, easy removal,a true joy to own, use and clean. It is the only airbrush where I can do fine lines all day and my hand not hurt it means a lot.

Got mine for ~$100 from the badger lady a few wonderfest's ago in Louisville, KY. It kicks but.

I never tried an IWATA with acrylics or enamels. The guys from IWATA sit next to us in the dealers room @ Wonderfest/G-fest and I only got to spray ink.

cool comparison:

http://modelingmadness.com/others/features...brushsurvey.htm

[ultimateone]

I'm gonna jump on Myersjessee's thread and pose a quick question.

I'm getting back into modeling after an 18 year hiatus (criminy, has it been that long? ) and I'm going to buy my first airbrush. I have read many good things about dual actions, but is that too much for a novice/beginner to start with? I really don't want to buy a single action and then have to upgrade down the road because I need it to do more, but I don't want to guarantee failure by getting something I'll hate right off the bat because it's too much for me.

If it helps, I'll mainly be building aircraft, mostly 1/72 and 1/48, but I plan on doing a smattering of 1/32's as well.

Thanks for any and all opinions and suggestions.

[Myersjessee]

Maybe a status update from me will help you decide. I decided to buy an Iwata HP-SB+. The thing that attracted me to it was the option to use it as a gravity feed, side feed, or suction feed. I just couldn't get out of my head I might want suction. Well, my pretty new airbrush sits unusued. I kind of decided before I risked breaking it I wanted to get some more practice. So, I cleaned my Iwata HP-C and my Badger 200 and forced myself to use them. Based on the feedback here I tried really hard to get used to gravity..and it's really grown on me. I'm getting quicker at measuring and cleaning. I bought some eyedroppers, and honestly, the ability to use literally a drop of pain for some detailing is wonderful. Also, through all my reading I decided that part of my issues were based on not having the right supplies. Foremost amongst those..good cleaners...so I bought some real cleaning solution, and an ultrasonic cleaner. Both of those helped a lot. I also bought an airbrush holder. $20 add on for a 2 brush model, but I know the reason I broke my HP-C in the first place is I balanced and dropped it. Being able to set the brush down in a proper stand while adjusting my target helps me a lot.

Finally, your question...double or single action. My opinion is either will be fine. My Badger is single action. I think of it as a quality can of spray paint. It handles volume nicely, lets me control where I am putting things, and is a cheap purchase. (base setup kit with a compressed air can is like $50) The dual action is not more complex, but does give you a lot more control. Since you can have air flowing without paint in dual action you can get a nice even spray of air going...lightly add in paint, and then go back to air to help dry a spot. As I got better with gravity from above I'm finding I use the Badger less and less. The Iwata HP-C lets me throw almost as much paint as the badger for say a primer coat, but then dial back to a pencil line for detailing.

Final recommendation...if you can afford it..get dual action...assuming your like me (I took a 12 year hiatus from building) you will be glad you have it...it's going to really help you add to your work. If you can't afford it...go for a starter single action with internal mix (like the badger 200) it's a great place to start.

Cheers

[ultimateone]

Hey, thanks much! The HP-C was actually the one I was leaning towards and I found you can get a nice set-up on e-Bay, complete with compressor and tank for under 300 dollars. Looks like even more OT in the works for me, hope the wife has some shows saved up on the TiVo.

Thanks again.

/I had a friend who told me when I was looking at motorcycles and couldn't decide between a 600 or a 750 that "you can ride a fast bike slow, but you can't ride a slow bike fast". That's what I was thinking along the same lines for an airbrush.

[Myersjessee]

Good luck!

[modcineaste]

I use a badger 300G gravity feed which is an excellent airbrush. I would definitely go with a either a Badger or an Iwada.

But really improved my modeling paint skills a 1000% was spending the money and purchasing a good air compressor with a regulator. I picked up one of the Iwada air compressors for $350 and it was the best amount of cash I ever spent on the hobby.

Cheers

LF

[ultimateone]

I picked up one of the Iwada air compressors for $350 and it was the best amount of cash I ever spent on the hobby.

Cheers

LF

Eeep! Yeah, you definitely get what you pay for. I'm hoping that as long as I get a good regulator to go with my bargain basement compressor and tank I'll be ok.