Enemy Battlesuit/Renegade Power Armor/Whatever...

[Mr March]

I'm sure by now everyone here knows that cool Zentradi-esque mecha from the beginning of Macross Plus. The thing that bears more than a little resemblance to a Queadluun-Rau. The "Macross Plus This Is Animation" book labels this mecha Teki no Batorusuutsu which I've just recently learned translates to Enemy Battlesuit. Very insightful

Well, I'm making a profile on it for the M3 and I need info. There's nothing on the Macross Compendium and the only stats I've found online are from either the Macross Mecha Designs RPG stuff or a little blurb on the MAHQ. Are those statistics found online for height/weight/armament correct? Is there even any actual official statistics on this mecha? Any other blurbs of info that might be useful?

Calling all translators here, please help if you can.

[Nied]

I always thought it looked more like a Nousjadeul-Ger myself, structurally they look closer.

This isn't official but I always thought those suits were the Supervision Army's version of the Nousjadeul-Ger. A lot of the styling cues are similar to the (SA related) Varauted mecha, and it wouldn't surprise me if the SA reverse engineered the NG the same way they did the VF/A-14.

[Mr March]

I always thought it looked more like a Nousjadeul-Ger myself, structurally they look closer.

Wow, I gotta really disagree on this one. I thought I was missing something so I just spent some time examining the four mecha and I'm honestly not seeing an N-Ger resemblance over a Q-Rau similarity.

Just taking in the overall silhouette, the Q-Rau and Enemy Battlesuit are both short torso/long legged mecha. In contrast, the two N-Gers are much more conventionally proportioned with shorter legs and taller torsos.

Looking closer at the details, the battlesuit's torso is broad shouldered and wide and features guns on either side just like the Q-Rau. The N-Ger torso is narrow and has a prominent center point built around a single gun. The battlesuit's two arms, the forearm shape in particular, feature underarm cannons just like a Q-Rau. The legs of the battlesuit don't resemble the backward "chicken" curve of either TV or DYRL? N-Ger at all and are certainly smoother and straight like the Q-Rau. The feet are totally all Q-Rau and nothing like the TV N-Ger's flat foot nor the DYRL? N-Ger multi-segemented structure. And probably the most striking resemblance of the battlesuit to the Q-Rau are those massive missile pods on the back. I thought they were pretty much a design lineage giveaway myself.

I will say one thing though, I can now see the resemblance between the head of the Enemy Battlesuit and that of the DYRL? version Nousjadeul-Ger. VERY similar configuration and they each have antennae on the left side.

Speculating, I kinda like the idea of the Enemy Battlesuit being Supervision Army mecha. Though again, I can't see how the Battlesuit would be a reverse engineering of a Nousjadeul-Ger when the N-Ger has absolutely no missile weapons. If reverse engineered, the Battlesuit would clearly be a Q-Rau type design with all those missiles in those big, back-mounted launcher pods.

Well that was fun. Onto the thread...

Edited February 8, 2007 by Mr March

[Nied]

The size is too small to be a Q-rau for one. Also the thruster arrangement is nearly identical to that of the N-Ger (9 thrusters in groups of three spread across the back and legs, plus one 'crotch' mounted thruster vs the Q-Rau's two back mounted thrusters). It looks to me like whoever built the Enemy battlesuit took a N-Ger, replaced the chest and back mounted cannons with missile launchers and shoved some light cannons in the forearms (which are quite close in shape to the cannonless ones on the N-ger, they even have five fingered hands instead of the Q-Rau's three fingered claws). The torso is also completely differently shaped from the Q-Rau, it has a distinct head while the Q-Rau just has a main sensor embedded into the top of the torso, it lacks the Q-rau's distinctive "tail" nor does it have the Q-rau's big shoulders (where the driver puts her arms).

If you want a good candidate for the Supervision Army's version of the Quedluun-Rau look no further than the Queadluun-Quilqua.

Anyhoo I don't want to derail your thread as I'm actually quite interested in getting some hard info on the "Renegade Power Armour" myself. Perhaps we can take this discussion to another thread or PM?

[Mr March]

*does double take*

What? The N-Ger and Q-rau are almost the exact same size. The N-Ger is 16.4 meters, the Q-Rau 16.75 meters. That's dead wrong.

Actually, if the RPG statistics are to be believed, at 18.1 meters the EB is larger than both of them (not counting the Q-Rau's height boosting antennae)

The Enemy Battlesuit has 11 thrusters, not 9 and the main thrusters are a central setup, not right/left fuselage like an N-Ger at all. And just like the Q-Rau, the thrusters are sandwiched between the missile pods and are much smaller than the three large boosters that dominate the back of either N-Ger.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Enemy Battlesuit and Q-Rau are two-of-a-kind mecha. They share the same design silhouette and layout. They are definitely part of the same mecha group, just as the YF-21 battroid shares Q-Rau design lineage. I'm not going to be convinced the EB is anything other than a broad torso/long legged overall structure based on minor differences like head, hand or thruster groups.

The Enemy Battlesuit torso is indeed different from the Q-Rau in detail, but bears no resemblance to any N-Ger at all. This is hardly a point. Again, the Enemy Battlesuit is a wide torso mecha, like the Q-Rau, like the YF-21.

I'm looking twice at the forearms and not seeing anything but Q-Rau. The EB forearms are not wrist angled like both N-Ger's, nor do they feature the underarm "lump" like the N-Ger, nor are they cylindrical like an N-Ger. The EB arms are single lengths, straight like the Q-Rau, with underarm guns like the Q-Rau and rectangular oblong shaped like the Q-Rau. The one similarity I can see is the "bicep" of the EB is similar to the "bicep" of the DYRL? N-Ger. But again, the EB upper arms are two-segement joints just like the Q-Rau. Both the TV and DYRL? N-Ger's are three-segement joints.

Lastly, the EB does have a "tail", TWO in fact, both of which bear a striking resemblance to either side of the Q-Rau rear exhaust. They are wedge-shaped and tapered just like a Q-Rau, but IMO, they resemble more the vectoring vanes on the Gnerl or Glaug Power-Up.

I can now see the similarity between the "calf" thrusters of the TV N-Ger and the Enemy Battlesuit. Different layout, but similar design philosophy. But again, we have a situation where minor details like the head, hand and calf thrusters are supposed to be leading to an OVERALL structure similarity that is definitely not happening. Structurally, the EB is of the broad torso/long legged mecha motif

Taking a step back from our interesting debate, I'm appreciating the EB as an amalgamation of several different mecha. I can see design concepts on the EB taken from the Glaug (rear "pelvis" thrusters), the TV-N-Ger ("calf" thrusters), the DYRL N-Ger (head unit), the Gnerl (vectoring vanes) and of course all the Q-Rau similarities. It steals from a lot of mecha, yet is a design all its own. My appreciation is growing

Anyway, I think the thread is fine. Our responses are keeping the thread at the top until someone can hopefully confirm the size/weight/armament details available online or provide some more official stuff.

Edited February 8, 2007 by Mr March

[Zinjo]

I always thought it looked more like a Nousjadeul-Ger myself, structurally they look closer.

This isn't official but I always thought those suits were the Supervision Army's version of the Nousjadeul-Ger. A lot of the styling cues are similar to the (SA related) Varauted mecha, and it wouldn't surprise me if the SA reverse engineered the NG the same way they did the VF/A-14.

Well we can only speculate what the SA mecha would look like.

The Varuta army doesn't automatically make it the designs of the SA. The SA would likely have evolved quite significantly over the half million years since thier last contact with the PD.

It isn't even revealed whether the ships in Mac 7 are vintage designs of the PD or some new "ideas" they came up with after they were awakened.

Anyway, I tend to agree that the Enemy Battlesuit looks like a "Franken-Rau"...

[sketchley]

Kazutaka Miyatake Design Works Macross and Orguss:

Pg 29 Nousjadeleul-ger

Pg 30 Zentraedi Battlesuit (the 'enemy battlesuit' of "This is Animation Special Macross Plus" probably isn't the correct name of the topic of this thread; partially because the book for the actual designer, detailing the design process, has a different name for it, AND especially because TIAS:MP has at least one known typo/error.)

Pg 39 YF-21

Pg 40-41 Queadlunn-Rau

Placement in the KMDWM&O book speaks volumes. Of course, the book isn't free of errors either - I've spotted plenty of graphical ones (mostly low res scanning issues); but I'm probably being nit-picky.

Renegade Power Armor is a definite RPG falicy. The Nousjadel-ger Kai formly of mahq sounded much cooler, but again, no canon material to back that up.

Edited February 8, 2007 by sketchley

[Mr March]

It does? What does the placement speak...or even more so, what does the YF-21 placed BEFORE the Q-Rau speak? Ones chronological, the other reverse chronology. Not seeing anything here but speculation I'm afraid.

At any rate, does any of the japanese text in Kazutaka Miyatake Design Works Macross and Orguss confirm the statistics found online? For example, online RPG stats for the "Renegade Power Armor" has...

HEIGHT: 58.0 ft (18.1 m)

WIDTH: 16.5 ft (5.2 m) at shoulders

LENGTH: 22.7 ft (7.1 m)

WEIGHT: 42 tons

Can these be confirmed by any official book?

The RPG stats also list the loadout and describe the guns.

FOREARM PARTICLE BEAMS (2)

HIGH-SPEED TRIPLE BARREL PULSE LASER

AUTOCANNON

LASER CANNON

Are these correct?

[sketchley]

Mr March, you are one funny fellow. You ask for translations and technical information, then you shoot the person bringing published facts, and accuse that person of speculation.

Is it because the published order runs against your opinions that you easily dismiss it? Are you bothering to ask about the placement of other items in the book or their catagorization by series? Did you even bother to consider that the YF-21 is not a Kazutaka Miyatake design and may have been included for reasons other than chronology?

You, sir, have an agenda to promote your own opinions, interpretations, and supositions on Macross. Why are you even bothering to ask for the facts? Why should anyone go out of their way to help you when all they get is your dismal attitude? Go and buy the book yourself, and do your own translations.

[Mr March]

Wow. An "agenda", as if this conversation has so far been about anything other than the mecha's "appearance". If these published facts are so apparent and contradict something I've written, it'd be easy to post them and enlighten would it not? Must be the smoking gun is anything but I suspect.

At any rate, don't worry sketchley, I'll not make the mistake of asking for your help again. And keep up the lousy attitude, I'm sure Macross websites will flourish with such as you. You do us fans all proud.

[Nied]

*does double take*

What? The N-Ger and Q-rau are almost the exact same size. The N-Ger is 16.4 meters, the Q-Rau 16.75 meters. That's dead wrong.

Actually, if the RPG statistics are to be believed, at 18.1 meters the EB is larger than both of them (not counting the Q-Rau's height boosting antennae)

Fair enough I was going off the line art and show which have a sitting Q-Rau towering over both Zentrans and Meltrans, while a fully standing N-Ger is only a head or two taller than a Zentradi soldier. I wouldn't be surprised if Dave Deitrich pulled the 18.1m height from the same orifice he pulled the whole "Renegade power armor" back story from. In the opening of M+ it certainly doesn't look much bigger than a VF-11 which would actually make it smaller than a N-ger.

The Enemy Battlesuit has 11 thrusters, not 9 and the main thrusters are a central setup, not right/left fuselage like an N-Ger at all. And just like the Q-Rau, the thrusters are sandwiched between the missile pods and are much smaller than the three large boosters that dominate the back of either N-Ger.

Actually the N-ger has three thrusters on it's back in a right-center left configuration, the ones on the back of the EB while smaller are in nearly an identical configuration.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Enemy Battlesuit and Q-Rau are two-of-a-kind mecha. They share the same design silhouette and layout. They are definitely part of the same mecha group, just as the YF-21 battroid shares Q-Rau design lineage. I'm not going to be convinced the EB is anything other than a broad torso/long legged overall structure based on minor differences like head, hand or thruster groups.

The problem is that while the Q-rau and YF-21 are practically an upper chest with legs and arms sticking out, while the N-ger and EB both have an identifiable abdomen and pelvic areas. The fact that it has a head is far more than a minor detail, one of the defining features of the Q-rau family is how the main sensor is so deeply embedded into the front of the mecha, with the rest of the structure rising above it. The EB does exactly the opposite taking the N-ger's relatively narrow chest and adding three missile containers around the upper chest in a horizontal configuration.

The Enemy Battlesuit torso is indeed different from the Q-Rau in detail, but bears no resemblance to any N-Ger at all. This is hardly a point. Again, the Enemy Battlesuit is a wide torso mecha, like the Q-Rau, like the YF-21.

Actually if you look closely at the structure you can see that the EB has a relatively narrow torso with a much wider back (entirely made up of the missile containers). If you look at the top down drawings in the Miyatake design works it's more clear. There's nowhere near enough room for the pilot's arms to fit inside the chest like the do on the Q-rau, they'd have to stick them into the upper arms ala the N-Ger.

I'm looking twice at the forearms and not seeing anything but Q-Rau. The EB forearms are not wrist angled like both N-Ger's, nor do they feature the underarm "lump" like the N-Ger, nor are they cylindrical like an N-Ger. The EB arms are single lengths, straight like the Q-Rau, with underarm guns like the Q-Rau and rectangular oblong shaped like the Q-Rau. The one similarity I can see is the "bicep" of the EB is similar to the "bicep" of the DYRL? N-Ger. But again, the EB upper arms are two-segement joints just like the Q-Rau. Both the TV and DYRL? N-Ger's are three-segement joints.

Now it's my turn to do a double take. The I can clearly see three segments in the EB's arms. Further while you're right has straight hands, that actually makes it different from both the N-Ger and the Q-Rau as both have inwardly curving forearms. Other than that the big difference is that the EB has a big gun and a missile launcher jammed into it's bulged forearms, while the N-ger leaves it's blank.

Lastly, the EB does have a "tail", TWO in fact, both of which bear a striking resemblance to either side of the Q-Rau rear exhaust. They are wedge-shaped and tapered just like a Q-Rau, but IMO, they resemble more the vectoring vanes on the Gnerl or Glaug Power-Up.

Those tails are more hip amour than anything else, and while they stylistically mirror the Q-rau, structurally they're completely different in that they mount from a different location and appear to be actuated (vs the Q-raus fixed tail). The N-ger actually has a similar hip armor though it's quite a bit smaller on that mecha and lacking the vernier thrusters of the EB.

[Nied]

Well we can only speculate what the SA mecha would look like.

The Varuta army doesn't automatically make it the designs of the SA. The SA would likely have evolved quite significantly over the half million years since thier last contact with the PD.

It isn't even revealed whether the ships in Mac 7 are vintage designs of the PD or some new "ideas" they came up with after they were awakened.

Anyway, I tend to agree that the Enemy Battlesuit looks like a "Franken-Rau"...

All true although it does bear a bit of a resemblance to the pre-crash Macross as well. Like I said it's just a personal theory of mine, one which I'd be happy to give up if some real info were to come to light.

[Mr March]

I agree. I'd be inclined to beleive the Enemy Battle Suit is not 18.1 meters. More likely it's around the 16 meter mark like the N-Ger and Q-Rau. It's definitely larger than the 13 meters of the VF-11, but it's hard to obtain an accurate comparison based on the anime. Personally, I'm hestiant to go outside of the established height ranges for the N-Ger/Q-Rau and make the size of the Enemy Battlesuit smaller than both. I think, barring any official information on the subject, I'll probably go for a compromise between Q-Rau and N-Ger height.

Oh I know the N-Ger has a tri-thruster setup. But the thrusters on the N-Ger are all seperate sections and much, MUCH larger. THey dominate the back, unlike the EB that's much smaller and sitting between the missile pods, like a Q-Rau. Personally, I think it's shares as many similarities as differences but a case could be made either way.

The lower torso of the EB doesn't amount to much more than a small wedge and now that you mention it, that resembles the single wedge shaped flap on the Q-Rau. The head is definitely a minor detail as it pertains to the overall structure and silhouette of the mecha. Like most Zentradi mecha, the head is very small. Thouhg I agree, it's a defining N-Ger trait. But it doesn't change the structure so significantly that the mecha doesn't look more Q-Rau in design than N-Ger. The missile pods are a major detail that affects overall structure, just like the torso and legs IMO.

The torso of both N-Ger's leads to a center point that is no wider than the barrel of the medium bore cannon in the center. The EB torso is far flatter, wider, and has no such central point. ALso if you look at the top view, the EB torso widens in the middle only slighty and actually tapers to the same width as the front when approaching the rear. The massive missile pods are what make up the backward width, not the torso. The internal layout is something I'm loathe to comment on and really doesn't matter much for external relevance IMO.

Regarding arms, I'm speaking upper arm ONLY. If you're talking about the WHOLE arm, yes the EB is a three-segment unit...in which case the WHOLE N-Ger arm would be a four-sgement unit (arguably five for both versions). And actually the Q-Rau arms have no inward wrist curve like the N-Ger. When you look at the schematic fronts views (which I admit, most people do not have acces to yet, I promise they will appear on the M3) the Q-Rau arms are straight and the N-Ger has inward curvers. The EB features straight. The oblong bulge is also prominent on the N-Ger, but the EB, like the Q-Rau, has no such feature. It is smooth and straight.

Personally, I don't think the hip vanes look much like either N-Ger or Q-Rau, but one could infer stylistic similarities with a bit of wiggling Like the Glaug inspired aft pelvis thrusters on the EB, the vanes look more like vectoring panels on a Gnerl or Power Up Glaug or even the folded wings on the YF-19/YF-21 battroid mode.

Taking a step back, there are many traits of both Q-Rau and N-Ger in the Enemy Battle Suit. There are some obvious minor N-Ger traits like head, hands and thruster groups, just like some obvious minor Q-Rau traits like feet, torso guns and arm guns. For me, the overall structure is Q-Rau with major traits like the massive missile pods, flat/wide torso, and long legs, but it's clear the mecha is an almalgamation of design motifs.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Mr March

[Zinjo]

To me it looks like a "Franken_Rau"or "Franken Ger" (depending on your bend) in that it was built from the remains of both a Q-Rau & N-Ger.

The actual argument should be, "which chassis is it based on?", since it has features unique to both armor.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Zinjo

[Mr March]

I agree. The "franken-rau" is a good term

The basis of the Enemy Battle Suit is a fine question, but doubtful we'll ever find an answer. Much like the debate over the appearance, it's likely up to an individuals perception.

[Nied]

The lower torso of the EB doesn't amount to much more than a small wedge and now that you mention it, that resembles the single wedge shaped flap on the Q-Rau. The head is definitely a minor detail as it pertains to the overall structure and silhouette of the mecha. Like most Zentradi mecha, the head is very small. Thouhg I agree, it's a defining N-Ger trait. But it doesn't change the structure so significantly that the mecha doesn't look more Q-Rau in design than N-Ger. The missile pods are a major detail that affects overall structure, just like the torso and legs IMO.

Ah but it isn't a minor detail because it's telling of the internal structure of the mecha. The N-ger has a head because the pilot has his head inside it while his arms stick into the upper arms of the mecha. The Q-rau is sans head because the pilot keeps her arms inside the torso of the mecha. The EB's shoulders are way to low to have the same cockpit scheme as the Q-rau.

The torso of both N-Ger's leads to a center point that is no wider than the barrel of the medium bore cannon in the center. The EB torso is far flatter, wider, and has no such central point. ALso if you look at the top view, the EB torso widens in the middle only slighty and actually tapers to the same width as the front when approaching the rear. The massive missile pods are what make up the backward width, not the torso. The internal layout is something I'm loathe to comment on and really doesn't matter much for external relevance IMO.

That's exactly my point. The EB's torso doesn't taper in the front because the chest cannon has been replaced with a missile launcher. And as you yourself pointed out it's quite narrow in the center, far to narrow to use the same kind of cockpit scheme as the Q-rau which is a good indication that it isn't based on it. How the pilot sits in the mecha is a good indicator of it's internal structure and thus a good indicator of what mecha it's based on, if any.

Regarding arms, I'm speaking upper arm ONLY. If you're talking about the WHOLE arm, yes the EB is a three-segment unit...in which case the WHOLE N-Ger arm would be a four-sgement unit (arguably five for both versions). And actually the Q-Rau arms have no inward wrist curve like the N-Ger. When you look at the schematic fronts views (which I admit, most people do not have acces to yet, I promise they will appear on the M3) the Q-Rau arms are straight and the N-Ger has inward curvers. The EB features straight. The oblong bulge is also prominent on the N-Ger, but the EB, like the Q-Rau, has no such feature. It is smooth and straight.

I'm sorry I'm just not seeing it. You're the one with the high quality scans, any chance you could whip up an illustration?

Personally, I don't think the hip vanes look much like either N-Ger or Q-Rau, but one could infer stylistic similarities with a bit of wiggling Like the Glaug inspired aft pelvis thrusters on the EB, the vanes look more like vectoring panels on a Gnerl or Power Up Glaug or even the folded wings on the YF-19/YF-21 battroid mode.

Agreed, but stylistic similarities don't really point to structural similarities, and that's what we're discussing here. If someone (Supervision Army, Anti-UN forces or whatever) reverse engineered another mecha stylistic similarities aren't going to give you much of a clue as to what they started with.

Taking a step back, there are many traits of both Q-Rau and N-Ger in the Enemy Battle Suit. There are some obvious minor N-Ger traits like head, hands and thruster groups, just like some obvious minor Q-Rau traits like feet, torso guns and arm guns. For me, the overall structure is Q-Rau with major traits like the massive missile pods, flat/wide torso, and long legs, but it's clear the mecha is an almalgamation of design motifs.

I would say that whoever built the EB started with the frame of an N-ger but then gave it an armament closer to the Q-Rau's (possibly to combat it?) which happened to give it some stylistic cues that makes it look similar. To take my Supervision Army theory further, perhaps the SA only had access to N-gers when they started building their forces, and to counter the Q-rau forces they faced during the war they fitted it with a large missile armament and an extra set of cannons making it look somewhat superficially like the mecha it was meant to face.

[Mr March]

Just realized something about this discussion. I think we're having different discussions based on the same word. When you said structure, I took it to mean the point of view of the whole rather than of any single part. With this last post, it's clear you're deducing the internal layout via elimination and arguing structure based on a definition as an arrangement of parts.

I'm starting to see more of your point but a few things don't make sense.

The N-Ger pilot does not place his arms into the upper arms of the mecha. Not sure where that's from.

The Q-Rau is not sans-head. The Q-Rau has a less pronounced head, but it sits above the torso like any powered armor suit (though the "shoulders" of the Q-Rau are sloped more). The pilot fits her head inside the Q-Rau head. (which again is above the torso).

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/art/mcr019l.jpg

The head of the EB does suggest the pilot head is situated there, so I can see your point on that. The rest is really up in the air IMO. There's actually enough internal room in the EB for the pilot to put his arms forward like an N-Ger, to the sides like a Q-Rau, or even some variation on either. The upper cockpit may resemble an N-Ger, but the torso/leg configuration would suggest a Q-Rau type seating. Again, for me it could go either way and the lack of internal diagrams means it's hard to go further.

Regarding the torso, be careful quoting what I say. I said the back width gets size from the missile racks not the torso. I also said the torso is wide and tapers only slightly in the middle of the mecha. Both the front and rear torso of the EB are the same width. The N-Ger (both with and WITHOUT cannon) has a defined pyramid shape from front to back. If you looked at both mecha from the top looking down, the N-Ger torso looks like a yield sign while the EB/Q-Rau torsos look like stop signs.

For the arms, I'll make up 3-segment vs. 4-segment pictures for ya. ANd post them. Give me a few minutes after this post and I'll upload something.

I'm not really sure we can know for certain what the EB started from, but like I said, appearance is what I'm discussing. Going into the functionality is a whole other game. If I were to discuss functionality, I'd say the similarities between the Q-Rau and the EB are even greater than just mecha appearance. The weapons look almost identical, but that's another discussion.

Now having said all this, I do see some of your points and they make sense. The EB could in fact be a Q-Rau'ed next-gen N-Ger. A Supervision Army mecha is not a bad theory and I like it, but unfortunately what little official designations there are suggests the EB is just a Zentradi mecha (like it's name in the MK Design Works book as "Zentradi Battle Suit").

If you're up for it, I'd like to send you a preliminary profile for the EB and hear your comments on it. You've put more thought into this than anyone so I'd like to get your input. Naturally, I'll give you credit on the M3 for anything you contribute.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Mr March

[Mr March]

Here ya are Nied, a detailed layout of the WHOLE arms on each mecha.

http://www.un-spacy-qmtdb.com/Macross%20DYRL/QRau-EB.gif

http://www.un-spacy-qmtdb.com/Macross%20DYRL/NGer.gif

Edited February 13, 2007 by Mr March

[Zinjo]

I would say that whoever built the EB started with the frame of an N-ger but then gave it an armament closer to the Q-Rau's (possibly to combat it?) which happened to give it some stylistic cues that makes it look similar. To take my Supervision Army theory further, perhaps the SA only had access to N-gers when they started building their forces, and to counter the Q-rau forces they faced during the war they fitted it with a large missile armament and an extra set of cannons making it look somewhat superficially like the mecha it was meant to face.

I disagree regarding the SA.

Remember they were composed of PC as well, thus there is a very real probability that they engineered their own style of Mecha as opposed to being "stuck" with Zentreadi left overs, whether it be design cues or actual hardware.

[daeudi]

Uhm... instead of arguing over which one it is based on, Would anyone bother to agree that it looks more like a unisex amalgamation of both the NGer and QRau?

I mean seriously, if you took the best features of both, combined them, and then added a massive micromissile rack.... you get the EB, right?

EB weapons:

Triple gatling in chest (from QRau wrists)

2 different caliber cannons in R Chest... from both PAs

Wrist energy cannons- smaller versions of shoulder cannon from NGer.

[briscojr84]

The wrist guns aren't energy the line-art from the books clearly shows a spent shell casing ejecting from a port on the arm.

[Mr March]

Perhaps, but I've an agenda my dear daeudi! To corrupt the hearts of men and spread my evil Macek-like influence to all four corners of Macross fandom! It will be as was prophesied...the planet's are incinerating! Like flaming globes! Like flaming globes Sigmund!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!"

In all seriousness daeudi the fact is no one can know for sure. All we can do is have fun debating about it. How it looks is a minor detail and I think it's generally agreed here that the EB contains elements of both N-Ger and Q-Rau suits.

As for functionality, the EB is a missile mecha and that's about all we know.

The profile I've written for EB will only hint at a few possible connections, mostly that the EB could be an N-Ger and has a similar weapons load to a Q-Rau. Other than that I'll stick to describing what it does in the anime.

[Mr March]

The wrist guns aren't energy the line-art from the books clearly shows a spent shell casing ejecting from a port on the arm.

What he said

[Queadlunn-Rau]

http://www.steelfalcon.com/Macross/renegade.shtml

[briscojr84]

http://www.steelfalcon.com/Macross/renegade.shtml

Okay, I'm not sure what you are trying to point out with the link, the ejecting shell or the fact that the file says they are particle beam cannons.

Edited February 15, 2007 by briscojr84

[Mr March]

LOL

Comedy gold

[VF5SS]

Gawd, that website is ANCIENT!

[daeudi]

The wrist guns aren't energy the line-art from the books clearly shows a spent shell casing ejecting from a port on the arm.

oh...

well, I missed that.

Or maybe didn't look close enough and assumed it was yet another minimissile, who knows.

Still... its weapon suite is closer to the Qrau, but structually closer to the NGer.

[daeudi]

Perhaps, but I've an agenda my dear daeudi!

So did I...

I wanted the bickering to stop

[Mr March]

So did I...

I wanted the bickering to stop

With the exception of you know who, everyone in this thread is enjoying themselves. Don't confuse debate for arguement. Nied's posts have been invaluable and we've been corresponding via PM on revisions to my EB profile for the M3. This debate has been VERY constructive and similar discussions should not be discouraged.

[KingNor]

i think it looks like a mix of the two. they're male and female power suits, maybe they had a baby.