Gundam Show Thread - MSG thru GQuuuuuuX

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Big s said:

Although I do think that one of the biggest problems with the overall show is that it’s more about everything else and not much about the main character. Kinda like a main character that would be fine in a three episode quickie that somehow got a bigger series and now just kinda reacts mostly to the more interesting stuff going on in what normally would be the background. kinda like the background and foreground are reversed 

For me, that's exactly the part that makes the series so disappointing.

GQuuuuuuX seems to be painfully uninterested in its own main characters and, at times, its own main story.

Machu, Nyan, and Shuji are supposed to be the main characters, right?  Not only has the story generally avoided any kind of character development for Shuji or Nyan, the actions of the main trio are never more than peripheral to the course of the show's story.  The role of a main character is to be the perspective the audience views the story through as well as the driving force behind the story's progression as they navigate the conflict central to the plot.  None of that is really happening with Machu, Shuji, or Nyan.  It's really clear that the story of those three is not the story the writers care about telling.  Nothing the main trio do has done has meaningfully affected the course of events in the story and the writers of the series keep having other characters like Challia and Kycilia remind us that the real story is something else entirely that's going on behind the metaphorical curtain where we're not allowed to look.  It's kind of frustrating because not only does that other story sound WAY more interesting, but it's like... why not just show us that story instead of this one you're clearly not feeling?

More than anything, I show up to Gundam for the character writing.  It's a franchise that's had some of the strongest character writing in the industry.  GQuuuuuuX could have been something really interesting, but the character writing in it is so thin that it's barely there at all.  Engage with the characters and let us see what makes them tick, y'know?

[PointBlankSniper]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The role of a main character is to be the perspective the audience views the story through as well as the driving force behind the story's progression as they navigate the conflict central to the plot. 

The first half of that statement is true. The second half, not necessarily. You can have an entire story follow an observer or victim with no agency, just esperiencing the powers that be running their course.

The real mistake of the show is framing the main trio, with its promotions and opening theme, as a trio central to the plot, with agency in their actions. In reality, Shuji is not a character. He is a mysterious plot device. Nyan is the one with some agency, which amounts to denying Machu's ability to have any agency, while her own character is poorly explained, if at all. I suspect she will continue to derail the whole story much like how Slaine Troyad derailed Aldnoah. Machu has so far been just an observer to the cosmic powers, and I think would have been fine, if only they didn't spin her has the chosen one, as that burden comes default with a gundam protagonist. The real fatal flaw with her though, are reasons the writer gives her to subject herself to such extraordinary events, when it is all out of her depth and needs. Her setup and the world building required to make it work is entirely absurd. Then she is given the illusion of agency through excessive handholding by other actors and powers that be, and doesn't seem to acknowledge it. Intended or not, that kind of writing just makes her an insufferably entitled child. She's currently basically in the role of the annoying news host, when all we need out of her is a cameraman to watch the world to unfold through. Maybe she is a slow cooking character that will change, but that is a big maybe. The trend these days is to put those character changes in a time skip between split cours or seasons. So things don't look good for her writing regardless, but that's just my guess.

IMO good Gundam writing died after the original Build FIghters season. Everything from all the follow up Build titles, to G Reco, IBO, and WfM, has all been nonsensical slop with poorly reasoned character writing and screenplay. Even the totally-not-gundam Kyoukai Senki is just more of the same. The mega budget UC milking that comes on the side is just pretentious grandeur that often makes as little sense as the rest of the slop tbh. It's been that way since the latter half of Unicorn.

Yall are expecting too much out of the cash cow slop machine tbh.

[Big s]

1 hour ago, PointBlankSniper said:

Yall are expecting too much out of the cash cow slop machine tbh.

Honestly, I was expecting far less. I thought there was a good chance I’d totally hate the show. I still enjoy it and have fun with it despite its flaws so far.

[pengbuzz]

7 hours ago, PointBlankSniper said:

The first half of that statement is true. The second half, not necessarily. You can have an entire story follow an observer or victim with no agency, just esperiencing the powers that be running their course.

The real mistake of the show is framing the main trio, with its promotions and opening theme, as a trio central to the plot, with agency in their actions. In reality, Shuji is not a character. He is a mysterious plot device. Nyan is the one with some agency, which amounts to denying Machu's ability to have any agency, while her own character is poorly explained, if at all. I suspect she will continue to derail the whole story much like how Slaine Troyad derailed Aldnoah. Machu has so far been just an observer to the cosmic powers, and I think would have been fine, if only they didn't spin her has the chosen one, as that burden comes default with a gundam protagonist. The real fatal flaw with her though, are reasons the writer gives her to subject herself to such extraordinary events, when it is all out of her depth and needs. Her setup and the world building required to make it work is entirely absurd. Then she is given the illusion of agency through excessive handholding by other actors and powers that be, and doesn't seem to acknowledge it. Intended or not, that kind of writing just makes her an insufferably entitled child. She's currently basically in the role of the annoying news host, when all we need out of her is a cameraman to watch the world to unfold through. Maybe she is a slow cooking character that will change, but that is a big maybe. The trend these days is to put those character changes in a time skip between split cours or seasons. So things don't look good for her writing regardless, but that's just my guess.

IMO good Gundam writing died after the original Build FIghters season. Everything from all the follow up Build titles, to G Reco, IBO, and WfM, has all been nonsensical slop with poorly reasoned character writing and screenplay. Even the totally-not-gundam Kyoukai Senki is just more of the same. The mega budget UC milking that comes on the side is just pretentious grandeur that often makes as little sense as the rest of the slop tbh. It's been that way since the latter half of Unicorn.

Yall are expecting too much out of the cash cow slop machine tbh.

Expected nothing, was still disappointed.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, PointBlankSniper said:

The first half of that statement is true. The second half, not necessarily. You can have an entire story follow an observer or victim with no agency, just esperiencing the powers that be running their course.

Call me a huge literary nerd if you want, but the actual literary definition of a main character/protagonist is the character whose actions are central to the plot and move the story forward through their interaction with the antagonist(s) via the story's central conflict.

What you're describing there is a POV character.  You can have multiple of those, and they need not be the story's main character, but in general at least one of them spends their time in the story observing the main character whose actions move the plot forward.  To give a Gundam example, Reconguista in G shows events through the perspective of Bellri Zenam, Luin Lee, Noredo Nug, and others... but it's principally the actions and views of Bellri that move the story forward making him the Main Character.

 

 

6 hours ago, PointBlankSniper said:

The real mistake of the show is framing the main trio, with its promotions and opening theme, as a trio central to the plot, with agency in their actions. In reality, Shuji is not a character. He is a mysterious plot device. Nyan is the one with some agency, which amounts to denying Machu's ability to have any agency, while her own character is poorly explained, if at all.

Framing Machu, Shuji, and Nyan as the show's main characters definitely looks like a mistake at the present time.

Shuji, I agree, he's a walking plot device not a character.  He has no personality.  He's had no real character development.  What little we've seen of him suggests that he's basically a sockpuppet for the disembodied consciousness inhabiting the Alpha Psycommu of the Red Gundam and getting raptured out of the frigging story two episodes ago didn't really change anything about the story.

Nyan, no... if any character is totally lacking in agency it's her.  She is just kind of involuntarily caught in Machu's orbit from the get-go because Machu was sharp enough to notice Nyan had slipped the black market installer device into her bag and spot the tracker on it.  The only time she ever really takes action is when Machu can't... when Machu's stuck in that locker with Xavier and will miss their Clan Battle while Shuji's sick, or when Machu needs to rob the Pomeranians to fund their escape to Earth.  She only goes to Zeon when things go pear-shaped because Xavier insists on it and she only becomes a test pilot for the GFreD because Kycilia insists on it.  She only ever reacts to what other characters do around her, never moving on her own.

Machu... well... Machu's problem is just a lack of character development that leaves her actions feeling knee-jerk or motivationless a lot of the time.  She's making decisions, but because the writers are much more interested with the background drama surrounding the Zabi family power struggle, the choices she makes don't really influence the story in any meaningful way.

Not that Komori or Xavier are any better off than Nyan, really.

 

 

6 hours ago, PointBlankSniper said:

IMO good Gundam writing died after the original Build FIghters season. Everything from all the follow up Build titles, to G Reco, IBO, and WfM, has all been nonsensical slop with poorly reasoned character writing and screenplay. Even the totally-not-gundam Kyoukai Senki is just more of the same. The mega budget UC milking that comes on the side is just pretentious grandeur that often makes as little sense as the rest of the slop tbh. It's been that way since the latter half of Unicorn.

Yall are expecting too much out of the cash cow slop machine tbh.

I'd have to disagree with you there.

I don't think good Gundam writing is dead.  Gundam: Reconguista in G had an unusual story that went in a very different direction from usual Gundam stories, but in many ways it was a refreshing change of pace and it brought some engaging and likeable characters like Bellri.  Mobile Suit Gundam: the Origin was a retread of old ground, sure, but it had its fair share of extremely powerful moments especially surrounding its depiction of Operation British.  I remember watching the episode where Iffish is prepared for the drop over a lunch break at work and being disturbed by it the entire rest of the day because it was such an unflinching display of Zeon's willful malice.  Iron-Blooded Orphans was so heavy I completely understand why people dropped it because of its unrelenting grimness, but it had a lot of powerful moments in its writing that I think make it more than worthy to be counted among the great Gundam shows.  Hathaway's Flash Part 1 was pretty solid too, just like the novel.  The only thing wrong with Cucuruz Doan's Island was that they took a story meant for a 23 minute TV episode and stretched it 5x longer than it was meant to be so it feels thin as a result.

I think we've had a couple of lazy titles in the last few years... but nothing that was unfixable with a little polish.  The Witch from Mercury's had solid, if unremarkable design works and an interesting premise.  Its main flaw was just that its protagonists were so wealthy and so privileged that the writers struggled to come up with believable conflicts for them, ending up repeatingly creating and then breaking arbitrary rules in the setting to inject tension.  SEED Freedom was a lazy rehash of Destiny, but even that could've worked if they'd picked a new direction to go in with the characters.  Requiem for Vengeance may have been a glorified tech demo, but the only thing really holding its story back was the way that the writers inexplicably decided to awkwardly dance around the fact that Zeon were 100% the Bad Guys in the One Year War.  Making Iria Solari a villain protagonist or having her struggle with the demands of country vs. her morals would've made her a much more interesting character.

Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans: Urdr Hunt has the same writing team as the main series, so I have a pretty good feeling about that one.