zeus the zentran Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 I enjopyed Megazone 23 part 3 but there left some unfinished answers?Who is Bishop Won?Is he B.D. or Shogo?The movie said he was a Megazone survivor.Are there plans to make anymore Megazone ovas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JELEINEN Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 I enjopyed Megazone 23 part 3 but there left some unfinished answers?Who is Bishop Won?Is he B.D. or Shogo?The movie said he was a Megazone survivor.Are there plans to make anymore Megazone ovas? You really should have put a spoiler warning in the subject line. Anyway, I believe it's Shogo. And considering how long ago part III came out, it's doubtful. Not that they couldn't do much worse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Definately alluded to be Shogo, as B.D. decided to just go off & die in space. And yes, there are new Megazone 23 OVA's, they're called "The Matrix." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JELEINEN Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Definately alluded to be Shogo, as B.D. decided to just go off & die in space. And yes, there are new Megazone 23 OVA's, they're called "The Matrix." I think it's strongly implied that BD did not simply go off to die. It's also completely against his personality to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Definately alluded to be Shogo, as B.D. decided to just go off & die in space. And yes, there are new Megazone 23 OVA's, they're called "The Matrix." I think it's strongly implied that BD did not simply go off to die. It's also completely against his personality to do so. Strongly implied how? There was no more megazone, all he would have to leave on is his mecha, and the nearest place to go would be to mars with the Dezalg, who would surely tear him a new one. B.D. conceaded to Shogo in the end, telling him to build the kind of future he wanted to, and realising that "his" kind of lifestyle only lead to destruction. So why wouldn't he go off & die to let the new kids pave a better way? Hell, otherwise he would have just stayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 There are also signs given by Won Dai that he was shogo, if you pay close attention to the end as he argues with Eiji, Eiji pulls out Shogos Data disc which strikes Won Dai when he says "That, I remember that!" Later, after he's out of the confinments of the "system" his voice isn't so deepened and he sounds an awful like Shogo afterwards. Not too mention I'd STRONGLY reccomend against having another Megazone 23 since there isn't really a story left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeus the zentran Posted September 2, 2004 Author Share Posted September 2, 2004 Yeah I agree that maybe there shouldn't be anymore.But I felt short changed with part 3.Like how did E=x take over and such and who were delzag really,and questions like that.And what was the deal with the character desigan changes throughout the Megazone series?I did like that Matrix observation.Matrix is a souless version of Meagzone 23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeus the zentran Posted September 2, 2004 Author Share Posted September 2, 2004 Megazone was pretty close to earth at the end of part 2.B.D. could've survived.I would've known what happened with hime he's a cool charracter.He's almost a cool headed version of Roy Focker.Actually is it true the first Megazone character designs were rejected designs from the first Macross movie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JELEINEN Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Strongly implied how? There was no more megazone, all he would have to leave on is his mecha, and the nearest place to go would be to mars with the Dezalg, who would surely tear him a new one.B.D. conceaded to Shogo in the end, telling him to build the kind of future he wanted to, and realising that "his" kind of lifestyle only lead to destruction. So why wouldn't he go off & die to let the new kids pave a better way? Hell, otherwise he would have just stayed. They evacuated the civilians, or at least a large number of them. Why would he simply abandon them? And conceding that Shogo "won" is not the same thing as committing suicide. He had been working all along at subverting EVE in order to protect the Megazone from ADAM. In the end he failed; EVE selected Shogo and company to return to Earth to rebuild civilization there. Realizing this and accepting does not mean he just gives up on his principles. Now it's certainly a possibility that everyone else from the Megazone died anyway, but there is sufficient evidence that there could have been survivors who did not make it to Earth. I obviously can't say for sure they survived no more than anyone else can say for sure they didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Megazone was pretty close to earth at the end of part 2.B.D. could've survived.I would've known what happened with hime he's a cool charracter.He's almost a cool headed version of Roy Focker.Actually is it true the first Megazone character designs were rejected designs from the first Macross movie? Nope, A.D.A.M. would have taken him out if he tried to go to Earth. The Megazone was just barely lucky enough to be allowed through. As for the designs, the only one Mikimoto did was EVE. They evacuated the civilians, or at least a large number of them. Why would he simply abandon them? No ships were shown launching, so by all indications, the evacuation would have been to the core block of the Megazone (the only part that survived). Besides, I'm pretty sure B.D. is shown flying off. And conceding that Shogo "won" is not the same thing as committing suicide. He had been working all along at subverting EVE in order to protect the Megazone from ADAM. B.D. had nothing to do with ADAM, and it's likely they didn't even know about the defense system until it activated (they barely knew what EVE was). The military was circumventing EVE so that they could build weapons to take on the Dezalg. By EVE's indications, had they not interfered with her, she would have been able to protect the ship, and it would have also raised the probablility of being allowed back to Earth by ADAM. In the end he failed; EVE selected Shogo and company to return to Earth to rebuild civilization there. Realizing this and accepting does not mean he just gives up on his principles. Except that he did leave the Megazone (bah, have to watch it again to comfirm that, but I damn near recall seeing him flying off), with no place to go, all there would be is death. Now it's certainly a possibility that everyone else from the Megazone died anyway, but there is sufficient evidence that there could have been survivors who did not make it to Earth. I obviously can't say for sure they survived no more than anyone else can say for sure they didn't. Without the Megazone, the only option left to them would be to go to mars & be ripped apart by aliens. Anyone not in the core of the Megazoen when ADAM let it through faced death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Honestly, there was probably almost a million people on the Megazone, and when you watch the near end of Part 2, you gotta think maybe 2/3rds of everyone on there died. I mean that escape capsule though big, wasn't really THAT big and just about anyone within the capsule would survive.....but if your outside and weren't inside of some sorta ship, you were pretty much dead because the Megazone broke apart as it was reaching the moon....and chances were it came in contact with ADAM and was destroyed like the other Megazone which was taken over by the Delzag. As for the Megazone character designs, they were done by the guy who worked in the animation for Macross, but rejected designs....hmmmmm.......sounds too far fetched to me....its one of the biggest contriversy's since there are scenes in Part 1 which suggest Macross inspiration, such as a small .5 second clip from EVE telling Shogo the history of earth and right there on the Garland monitor was a ship which front end has a resemblance to the SDF-1 Macross TV variation.... Hmmm if no one has a screen cap of that, I'll try and take some and focus on that one little bit which caught my eye thanks to other ppl tellin me about it years ago. But B.D. did not return to earth and more than likely if he had tried, he'd burn up with the rest of his crew in the atmosphere, I would SERIOUSLY doubt Garlands, Harguns, Flaggans or anything Robotic/mecha like would survive the re-entry processes. You even see him running off with his squadron away from the Megazone and deep into space....it could be possible he went off to die like a soldier and pick a fight with any alien forces within the area since the main ship was being dissolved by ADAM's network defense system....which is suprising of how long that thing can last if it was still operational for over a thousand years.... Another problem with part 3, was the introduction of the Original Garland....which kind of presents some problems to me...why would it have been left on Earth? Why wouldn't it or more variations of it be presented in other Megazones such as 23? The "prototype" garland we see Shogo use had no special weapons like the Original Garland does other than amazing speed. Too many plot holes for the story, such as if 500 years had passed before part 1 to the end of part 2, how could society ecknowledge Bahamout saying "Okay we'll never talk about us being on a giant space ship ever again" Unless those people had no idea they were on a giant ship which I would doubt....there are too many unanswered questions which would have made the animation SO much richer and unique and not have so many people call it such a Matrix like film Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JELEINEN Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 No ships were shown launching, so by all indications, the evacuation would have been to the core block of the Megazone (the only part that survived). Besides, I'm pretty sure B.D. is shown flying off. We don't see very many shots showing the outside at the time, but BD did give the command to evacuate. If there weren't ships, then it would be kind of silly for him to give the command. B.D. had nothing to do with ADAM, and it's likely they didn't even know about the defense system until it activated (they barely knew what EVE was). The military was circumventing EVE so that they could build weapons to take on the Dezalg. By EVE's indications, had they not interfered with her, she would have been able to protect the ship, and it would have also raised the probablility of being allowed back to Earth by ADAM. When ADAM activated there wasn't any indication that they weren't aware of what it was. And EVE's job wasn't to protect the entire Megazone, but to choose who should be allowed to return to Earth. This is why all of Shogo's friends who were scattered all over the city and in pretty bad shape all made it, but nobody else did. EVE specifically saved them. She was sort of a filter to make sure only humans who weren't going to screw up the Earth again would be able to land. Except that he did leave the Megazone (bah, have to watch it again to comfirm that, but I damn near recall seeing him flying off), with no place to go, all there would be is death. He does fly off. Which is odd if he had just given up and is willing to die. If he wanted to die, he could have just stayed there and been disentigrated along with the rest of the Megazone. Without the Megazone, the only option left to them would be to go to mars & be ripped apart by aliens. Anyone not in the core of the Megazoen when ADAM let it through faced death. You mean besides the other seven planets and millions of planetoids that make up the solar system? Whether BD is alive or not is an unknown, but I think the creators of the show definitely left the implication that he was not destroyed along with the Megazone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltane70 Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Later, after he's out of the confinments of the "system" his voice isn't so deepened and he sounds an awful like Shogo afterwards. That's because it is Shogo's voice that you hear. The credits list two people as Won, I din't remember the first name listed, but the second name is Kazuki Yao, who played Shogo in Megazone 23 part 2. According to a translation of the Megazone 23 timeline, the Dezalg aren't aliens, but instead are genetically engineered humans that colonized Mars. Here's a link to said timeline: http://mickey.cis.yale.edu/eve/mzonebg.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Right I know that was shogo lol I just didn't wanna really spoil it for others who were shogo fans...........*cough* like my self. But thanks for the info that really does clear things up on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Well, if the original EVE could be left on Earth, why not the original Garland? Though the very fact that they were trying to eraticate voilence & return people to some kind of peacful existence with nature does negate any reasoning in leaving such a heavy weapon on Earth. It's also doubtful that B.D. would be be able to get to Earth by himself. ADAM was designed to not let "anything" through unless is passed the test. Only EVE could prove people worthy to get through. B.D. going off of the Megazone made him a seperate target. Too many plot holes for the story, such as if 500 years had passed before part 1 to the end of part 2, how could society ecknowledge Bahamout saying "Okay we'll never talk about us being on a giant space ship ever again" Unless those people had no idea they were on a giant ship which I would doubt....there are too many unanswered questions which would have made the animation SO much richer and unique and not have so many people call it such a Matrix like film EVE's purpose, aside from monitering the "worthyness" to return to Earth, was also to hypnotise the citizens into believing they were existing in 1980's Japan. BTW, I call the Matrix a Megazone like film, and I'm surprised that its creators have never admitted their severe reliance on the Megazone story, especially part III. We don't see very many shots showing the outside at the time, but BD did give the command to evacuate. If there weren't ships, then it would be kind of silly for him to give the command. I always assumed it was a command to evacuate to shelters. It just wouldn't make sense to tell them to evacuate to ships. Each ship would have to have whatever oxygen production facilities that the Megazone had, as well as food producing facilities. Considering that the military was barely able to backwards engineer the technology of the Megazone as a somewhat comparable level, it'd be hard to believe that they could recreate those other systems, but you never know. Plus the fact remains, where would they go? 23 went out for 250 years without finding a habitable planet, and who the hell know's what happened to the other Megazones. Mars, or anywhere near Mars would be a death trap. When ADAM activated there wasn't any indication that they weren't aware of what it was. If they knew what it was, then they wouldn't have tried to take out EVE. She was the only thing capable of getting them past the Moon. And EVE's job wasn't to protect the entire Megazone, but to choose who should be allowed to return to Earth. This is why all of Shogo's friends who were scattered all over the city and in pretty bad shape all made it, but nobody else did. EVE specifically saved them. She was sort of a filter to make sure only humans who weren't going to screw up the Earth again would be able to land. I dissagree. EVE's job was definately to protect the entire Megazone. Her choice in Shogo was to find someone who could represent humanities ability to evolve past voilence, and live for the future. How would EVE specifically save all Shogo's friends when they were scattered around the streets of the city? And of course looking at Part III, we see a Eden which has bustled in only a thousand years (give or take), the number of people there requiring a fair share of the Megazone's citizens to raise that number. EVE never says she's only going to save a few people, and does clearly state that she's the charge of the whole ship. And then of course there's the animation error theory. You'll note that at the very end, as Shogo & his friends are standing on top of the Megazone, they all blink out of existence for a second. This I've seen in every incarnatin of Part II that I've owend (fansub, HK, & ADV disc). This of course leads to the theory that perhaps no one survived, and perhaps everyone at the end were holograms.....(note: I don't actually support this theory, but find that one coincidental animation error immensly funny). He does fly off. Which is odd if he had just given up and is willing to die. If he wanted to die, he could have just stayed there and been disentigrated along with the rest of the Megazone. Excent that not all of the Megazone was destroyed, and the part he was in before he left was specifically part of the core block that landed on Earth. So it does make sense for him to leave. Especially concidering a soldier's mentality. You mean besides the other seven planets and millions of planetoids that make up the solar system? And the fact that after being out in space for so long, 23 never found a habitable planet (and it was only supposed to return to Earth if it had not found a habitable planet within 250 years, after that point it was to make a return trip home. Most likely to to fuel or supply limitations. Whether BD is alive or not is an unknown, but I think the creators of the show definitely left the implication that he was not destroyed along with the Megazone. I think they left the implication that he went rode off into the proverbial sunset, never to be seen again. According to a translation of the Megazone 23 timeline, the Dezalg aren't aliens, but instead are genetically engineered humans that colonized Mars.Here's a link to said timeline: In the same text is "In 2489, the Dezalg Fleet met an alien civilization." Which is what I meant when I said that they were a hybrid alien species. The alien civilization is most likely where the tentacles came from. Great link though, I thought I was going to have to dig out my old fansub tape where much of this same info is listed before the start of each part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 The timeline was very interesting, I didn't know just how far into the future it really was till reading this, that was intriging to say the very least. I'll have to watch part 2 again for that animation error, everyone has holograms seems to far fetched to me I think it was just that when you zoom out to a certain point there's no meaning to keep doing lil dots that look really weird. Besides I think there were a few other mistakes besides that one. In part 3 there were some mistakes I saw lastnight watching it....in the beginning, when Eiji is flipping his data disc around and places it into his hacking terminal, it's blue......not yellow.....than after him, Akira and Bud run off from the Net Police and changes his ID card, it's yellow THAN goes blue..... Also some colors that were wrong, such as the Hargun Sion was piloting was some how changed to the same color as Eiji's Garland when it goes to a lower shot as the Garland jams its knives into the Hargun's shoulders..... Not too mention, 0_o I think the dub was better than the japanese variation....I mean.......scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LePoseur Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 (edited) Just a few thoughts. While I agree with Keith, especially about B.D.'s final outcome, I believe framing his action in terms of go off to die might spark the ire of his fans. For me, B.D. is definitely set in his ways and realizes he and those of his mindset are not the future. A mindset, which is in my understanding, says the military, through any means necessary, has a mandate to defend, protect and even control humanity for it's own good. Once he realizes that the rules have changed though, he concedes control of that future to Shogo (which I believe is his salvation as a character study and shows his own nobility) - a lesser character, maybe one only focused on maintaining their control or status, could have just continued fought Shogo to the bitter end. B.D., as misguided as I think his ways might have been, really did take his duty seriously and as such holds true to his ideals and dies defending the Megazone as it passes through the last leg of it's journey. Realistically, I doubt their action might have achieved much, but that's inconsequential, they died defending the Megazone. Call it suicide, bravery, or just devotion to your ideas, I guess it all depends on your own point of view. For myself, I not only see it as B.D.'s only choice (he can't stay and go to Earth, nor can he run away from his duty), but one that he willingly would have decided on. One of my best friends, for example, loves B.D. and sees him as the best character in the series. Of course, he also has deep-rooted ideas about law and order, as well as a strong sense of duty and honor, so it really doesn't surprise me. I, on the other hand, have a more anti-authoritarian streak it seems, and see Shogo's ideals as more comfortable. In the end though, that's what I really love about part II, it puts a more human face on B.D. and shows us two people who are just trying to do what they think is best, rather than having an "evil" badguy and a "perfect" goodguy. Edited September 4, 2004 by LePoseur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Well said. In fact, the Matrix would have been infinately better had they kept Smith to a B.D. style formula, instead of the hollow chaos he became. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LePoseur Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 (edited) Whole-heartedly agree about the Matrix. Not that I thought it was the creative miscarriage that many believe, but I do think it had lots of room for improvement. Then again, until I make my own sprawling sci-fi story, I'll cut them some more slack. Also, to pick up on a earlier question as to why the directors never mentioned any Megazone influences, I believe it might be because they probably call it "You know, that show with the transforming motorcycle," or something like that. For all their anime influence, I get the feeling whenever I listen to them that they have a friend who's deep into anime and showed them stuff over beer or what not, but they were never hardcore fans themselves. I freely admit to being wrong, but that's just the impression they give me. Edited September 4, 2004 by LePoseur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Whole-heartedly agree about the Matrix. Not that I thought it was the creative miscarriage that many believe, but I do think it had lots of room for improvement. Then again, until I make my own sprawling sci-fi story, I'll cut them some more slack.Also, to pick up on a earlier question as to why the directors never mentioned any Megazone influences, I believe it might be because they probably call it "You know, that show with the transforming motorcycle," or something like that. For all their anime influence, I get the feeling whenever I listen to them that they have a friend who's deep into anime and showed them stuff over beer or what not, but they were never hardcore fans themselves. I freely admit to being wrong, but that's just the impression they give me. I'm guessing you never watched the featurette on the animatrix dvd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Check this....hah....an EVE song is stuck in my head, the only time I get to listen to it is when I'm watching Part III....I must have watched Megazone 1-3 about 15 times each over the 3 months at home with no PC. I don't know the name of the song, and I'm having problems finding it since I don't know the name. In part 3 in 2 occasions you hear EVE singing something sorta popish as Eiji and Shion are fighting, than you hear it again as Eiji and Yacob are fighting....the song wont get out of my mind then when it does leave I start thinking, "Damn what was that song......" and all the eve songs start poping into my head and WHAM! There it is again, I HEAR IT RIGHT NOW!!!!!! So wha I wanna know is what was the name and where can I find it? I tried the Vocal Collection and no go, and I can get the Megazone 23 III OST but out of those 13 tracks, none of the titles there suggest its an EVE song.... So any takers on helpin me out here so I got something nice to listen too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltane70 Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 (edited) The name of the song can be transleted to Sleeping Beauty. The title of the song in Japanese is Nemurenu Mori no Bijou. The song is on the Megazone 23 Part III OST, it's track 2. Edited January 7, 2005 by Beltane70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikuro Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Fantastic! I'm gonna get the soundtrack then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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