DrClay

I bought the 4 valks originally slated for 1:48. Yamato announced those waaaay in advance so I was able to plan for them... I broke down and bought the Hikaru VF-1S... but after buying 5 of essentially the same toy (each because of their fastpacks costing as much as a PS2) I say "NO MORE!"

the tone of the first post didn't seem to me to be of the bitching variety. I don't see one complaint. many people here DO talk like there is gonna' be a bigger better VF-0 almost FOR SURE. I don't see anything but an attempt to start a good natured conversation here. why the unanimous negative reaction?

Anyways, I think that considering that the VF-0 was created with autocad, it stands to reason that maybe the CG model can actually transform. Maybe the 1:100 requires nose swapping in the interest of keeping its transformation simple, but a bigger, more complicated VF-0 wouldn't require such major part swapping.

just my $.02

I read somewhere that there was a period of only a few days where Yamato accepted pre-orders from distributors for the low vis, and they only made as many toys as were ordered. Supposedly, no one had a clue that there would even be such a thing and distributor demand was pretty low.... but don't take this post as the gospel truth.

These guys are still at it?!  BTW, did anyone else hear that Yamato confirmed a low-vis 1/48 VF-0 with interchangeable nose cones?   Oh and it's a "limited edition" too, but I'm not sure what that means.

1/100

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=4849

EDIT: Low-Vis? So far all we've seen is the grey prototype...

I think he was making a joke.

Also, my apologies, EXO et al, I was totally out of line I just have the apartment to myself tonight and I'm all bored.

ok, ok, you win.

Don't worry. Someone here is bound will recarve the head out of titanium for you.

OMG that would RULE!!

{looks on silently}

this will be my last post in reference to him on this matter.

And, I still like my new forum idea.

my own forum.... I can see it now:

new thread in the Drclay only forum

will I get what I want?

I sure hope so

DrClay: Wouldn't it be neat?

DrClay:

Wouldn't it be neat

no

Moderator: This thread is too lame to continue..... LOCKED!!!!!

I tryed that once, it doesn't work

How did it not work? If you check the thread to which you are referring, I never said anything else!

Of course, you leave out the part where you PMed me and continued to press your point.

Everyone can have opinions. . . but if your opinion is crazy, ill-informed, or illogical, chances are I will express my opinion about your opinion. If you can't handle it, maybe discussion forums aren't for you.

H

thanks for proving my point, Hurin. Your link goes to a page that starts with you quoting me retracting my opinion. and then responding to it with long-winded scrutiny. Also, I'm glad that you acknowledge the fact that when others post opinions about MACROSS TOYS you respond with opinions about THEIR OPINIONS. If you can't handle discussing a subject without getting personal, maybe discussion forums aren't for YOU.

LOL. I have yet to see anyone give up on theirs

Anyone who wants to see someone give up on their opinion thanks to Hurin, click his link.

I think you and Dr. Clay need your own forum.

I tryed to PM Hurin and explain myself as to not bother anyone else with that discussion or be a drama queen, but he quickly degenerated to personal insults when he no longer was worried about moderators.

but, you're right! Hurin is going to type novels about how idiotic everyone else is for living no matter what I say, so this will be my last post in reference to him on this matter.

Well, what is "Auska"? We were thinking it was the Asuka (aircraft carrier in Macross Zero).

the pilot of that EVA is named Asuka. pronounced in the anime "Auska"

I think a simple, "you win; I lose," "you're smart; I'm stupid," "you're good-looking; I'm ugly" might appease Hurin. Oh, and don't forget to put feeling into it, like Happy Gilmore.

I tryed that once, it doesn't work.... the response was sumthin' like this: HERE WE GO AGAIN!!!! you say "hurin, you win" when the truth is I'm the winner. You said

you win

winning and being the winner are NOT the same thing! Why did you even post this? everyone already knows and it goes without saying. furthermore, it is only your opinion that as you put it, I "win" it is not the gospel truth or a certainty like you claim to think. When it turns out that I am the winner instead of one who wins you will certainly look very stupid. I am sick and tired of people stating their opinions on Macrossworld when they are not the same as mine, word for word. to post their opinion is to say that no one else has one. I don't mean to pick on you, but if I let you state your opinion without telling you where to shove it... well, let's just say this is how rumors get started etc.... etc.... etc....

You seem a little worked up from your responses

I love how everyone always thinks I'm so worked up just because I take a little time to actually make a cogent (at least to me), reasoned argument. . . rather than just stating my opinions.

asking for sources

Yeah, cuz providing sources is such a terrible thing. . .

writing make beleive cutesy dailogue

I'm confused. Am I "worked up" or being cutesy? Are you coming on to me!?!

As Dr Clay mentioned

Look, DrClay seems like a nice enough guy. But I wouldn't take everything you read as gospel. We're all fallible. He himself recently took part in a thread where people clearly said that there has been no announcement (official or otherwise) that Kawamori was planning on redesigning the VF-1 for Macross Zero. But, having apparently not read that, and having only engaged in the part of the thread debating whether a redesign should be done, he then pops into another thread and announces:

"I heard Kawamori was going to redesign the VF-1... to look more continuity-y"

I don't point this out to pick on DrClay. Rather, I do it only to point out that rumors get out of control fast. And some of us get tired of people hearing things, twisting it, spreading it as fact, and then months later we get to watch people get pissy when the "promises" don't come true. Yamato has been lambasted many times on these boards for not coming through on promises that they never even made.

Incidentally, I think this addresses DrClay's concern above:

You don't gotta' jump down people's throats. . . Listen, I agree that Yamato shouldn't re-issue the low-vis. But, can't that fanboy dream without you writing him a condescending NOVEL about where he can shove said dream?

It's threads like these where a few people announce their opinion that they think the Low Viz will be released. . . and then six months later we have people pissed and talking s--t about Yamato because they failed to deliver on their promise of more Low Vizes.

Another good example? How about the "Yamato is definitely making an SDF-1" rumor. It really blossomed on the old boards, but we discuss it here. Graham said at one point that Yamato might consider making an SDF-1. Next thing you know, people are arguing scale. . . words are put into Graham's mouth. . . and a few months later, questions regarding it are answered with: "Graham says Yamato has one in the works and it will be x scale and DYRL style!"

So again. . . if I'm being harsh, sorry. But it gets old watching people's opinions and desires evolve into scheduled releases on some fanciful Yamato release calendar. . . and then watch as people get all pissy when their dreams are dashed. People around here have a nasty tendency of wanting something so bad that they blind themselves to reason and logic. Hell, one guy (who shall remain nameless) got so incensed about the 1/60 line winding down that he dubbed all the people buying 1/48s in lieu of 1/60s as "unscrupulous" and declared that Yamato would sink rapidly into financial ruin if they were stupid enough to concentrate on and expand the 1/48 line. All this because he really likes 1/60 valkyries!

To a lesser extent, I see the same sort of thinking here. Someone really wants them to make more 1/48 Low Viz. . . so they twist things around to the point where "Limited Production" loses all meaning. That way, in this now oddly-contorted universe, Yamato is free to produce as many "Limited Production" valkyries as they want. But we'll get to that in a bit. . .

the 4 valk thing was from Graham on the Old Boards, which are available

No, they aren't. Nor have they been for several months.

and this is pretty much common knowledge

If I had a nickel for every time a blatant rumor has been passed off as "common knowledge" around here! But, I acknowledge DrClay's recollection above of what Graham said, and it strikes me as being accurate. But, what DrClay relates above is substantively different from what you said originally:

Yamato also said they where only going to make four 1/48 valks

This implies that Yamato promised a limit of only four. Yet you now acknowledge that they did no such thing but were only saying that four was their initial, tentative plan.

The first pics of the 1/48s had the Roy 1S and the Max and Hikaru 1A with talks of a possible VF 1J

Again, I never had a problem believing that Yamato had only initially planned for four valks. Rather, I had a problem believing your initial characterization of what they said (promising, in essence, a "4 valk limit").

No one said four was gospel it was just there initial plan or guestimation.

Oh no? See above. You did. Ah heck, here it is again:

Yamato also said they where only going to make four 1/48 valks

But again, if you now admit (which you apparently do) that they never had a concrete plan for four that they would have to publicly disavow in order to make more, your whole point about the "4 valk limit" sorta falls apart. . . doesn't it? Oh, wait, I guess not, cuz here you go again:

Yamato made 1/48 valks they sold well they made more (reissues and variants). Low Viz sold well make more. How is that illogical?

Dude, I don't think there's any help for you. If you don't see any difference. . . it's because you want a Low Viz so much that you're blind to the difference. I'm not going to waste any more time trying to explain the difference to you.

Limited Production is meaningless.

Odd. To me, it means "Limited Production."

Synonyms are: "Limited Edition" "Collector's Edition" or "After this run, we're done! You snooze, you lose!"

¨Logically¨ all the valks are limited productions.

I think what you mean to say is: "In my fantasy world, all valkyries are limited production. . . and yet somehow that means that they will make more."

Man, I guess I am going to try to explain this again. Lord help me: Look, when a company marks something as "Limited Edition/Production", they are artificially capping the supply on purpose to generate a collector's item and jack up demand. There is an implied promise to all the people who bought one that there will be no more production runs and that their initial investment will not depreciate due to more becoming available.

All Valkyries are not openly branded as "Limited Production". . . so that is why Yamato felt free to make more VF-1S Roys and VF-1A Hikarus.

Right now, Yamato is under absolutely no production restraints for any valk but the Low Viz. If they wanted to suddenly pump out more Max 1As, they could do so and nobody could blame them (though I don't doubt some MWer would find a way. . . that's our job!). But that cannot be said about the Low Viz because they plainly, loudly, and concretly said that this is a limited production item. So, to say that "all valks are limited production" is just silly. I realize you're trying to "think deeper" there. . . but you've hit the bottom of the pool and need to come up for air.

I'm not sure how else I can explain it. . . and I'm totally at a loss to understand how that doesn't make sense to you.

Unless the Low Viz are numbered they are not lying by making more

Dude, that's like saying: "I didn't really cheat on my wife if she doesn't find out." Are you seriously suggesting that Yamato just start minting more and keep it on the "down-low!?!" Yep, that's a great way to garner fan support: Outright deception.

Plus, I think we'd all know what was up if suddenly HLJ had Low-Vizes on sale again. . . followed by every other retailer.

That's just silly. . . moving on. . .

Limited Production is not synonymous with we are not going to make reissues.

Holy crap. . . I just had to go find a comic book to make sure that Superman hadn't turned into Bizarro. Seriously, has the earth broken out of its orbit and gone hurtling towards the sun?!? Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

That is exactly what Limited Production means! What in God's name else could it realisticly mean?!?

Also I would like to see Yamato profit the most from the Valkyries they make. This keeps them in business and able to make more toys for us. That to me is more important than any level of collectability that the toys have as I have no plans on selling mine.

As already pointed out, there is a valid argument to be made for an occasional (truly) "Limited Production" item being good for Yamato's bottom line. Related to that point is the negative effect on sales that might take place for future "Limited Production" items should Yamato lose their credibility by making more Low Vizes.

Also no one has answered my question including you. How many of these where made?

There have only been rumors. They were on the old boards. I think Graham chimed in once too, but I don't think he said it was a definitive number. But as I said, the old boards are not available.

I still hope that if they don´t make more Low Viz 1As that they make a Low Viz 1S or a 1J.

That would be cool. I don't like the Low Viz that much. . . but I'd probably pick one up. But, I actually doubt another 1/48 Low Viz is on the way. At least, not before the CF and others. It might happen and it might not. Your guess is as good as mine.

It's usually at this point in these debates that I feel compelled to point out that I type nearly 90wpm. So, you might think that this is a lot to have written. But, to me, it's like speaking.

In response to Hurin's stance,

Yamato IS a business-minded corporation and I myself, dropped all perceptions of them as a company that's anything (much) more than that. If the demand is high enough and enough people in the Land of the Rising Sun start beckoning, hey,... a "limited edition" isn't as limited as it originally was INTENDED to be. Companies have many strategies to go around "Limited Editions" and I don't think the low vis is as untouchable as you so passionately assume it to be.

I've always said that any company will do what is in their best interests. However, as I said above, it is my opinion that "keeping their word" about the Low Viz being limited is in their long-term best interests. . . financially and otherwise.

Now, if they truly stood to make a huge profit that would outweigh the negative aspects of doing so (detailed above), I could see them just saying: "Awww screw it. . . we'll make more." While I consider it very unlikely, I consider that to be within the realm of possibility.

What I don't go in for are all these word-games and reality-twisting people want to play with the words "Limited Production." If someone wants another one, fine. But let's not get all metaphysical about what was originally intended by the word "Limited." Let's not pretend that by putting that word on the box, Yamato wasn't trying to differentiate the Low Viz release from the other "unlimited" releases.

But, I'm starting to (once again) repeat myself.

If it's in the realm of possibility, then it's possible. We've all seen MANY slim possiblities turn into realities in life so...

There is also the possibility that Keanu Reeves is an alien agent placed here by a species living on Mars. . . that doesn't mean I have to consider that possibility very long before discarding it as unlikely. But, congrats for defining the word "possible."

(which I might add, is speculation as well until Yamato SAYS they won't make more).

SIGH. . . it's like talking to a wall. Look, they don't need to "SAY" they won't make more. They have already done so by printing "Limited" in big bold letters on the box. What more do you need?

Do you really expect them to come out and say: "It's really, really limited. For Real. Accept it" because some people on an obscure English discussion board can't seem to understand what the word "Limited" means?

Getting back to the "keep it's word" phrase you mentioned however, I don't remember Yamato promising both sides of this arguement anything.

Okay, one more time: When something is stated as being "Limited Edition/Production" they are stating clearly that they will not produce more of them after the initial allotment. That is "giving their word" or "promising" something.

For all we know, your assumptions may be more vulnerable than Hirohawa's.

I'm not making assumptions. I'm going by what is written on the box of the toy. Whereas Hirohawa wants to ignore it or twist its meaning to the point where it has no meaning. But, if you want to call them "assumptions" and state that they are vulnerable, please feel free to point out their vulnerabilities.

No, there is no great authority in the sky that can pronounce final judgement on either argument. . . and you seem to relish having an open-minded, "anyone can be corrrect here" attitude. So, I'm not exactly sure what your point is other than: "Possible is possible" and "Your arguments might be vulnerable." Oh, wait, here it is:

Anyway, the main point is, I think both sides are about level and neutralize one another.

If you consider them "level". . . more power to you. But I have a hard time understanding how you can claim things are "level" when you also say repeatedly that you consider a re-release unlikely. For things to be "level," wouldn't a lack of a re-release then also have to be "unlikely?" How can both be unlikely? And, therefore, how can things be "level?"

Considering all of the above, I'll take that for what it's worth.

Had to quote this one out of order or it wouldn't have made sense:

It's not like the people who bought the first low vis will cold turkey Yamato because of it. Heck, they might just buy more of em.

Dude, people here raised hell when Yamato released more 1A Hikarus and 1S Fokers. . . which were never stated to be a "Limited Version." Heck, they actually complained even louder because they were improved version upon re-release. Never underestimate the self-interested nature of a collector who has already shelled out appreciable sums of money: All hell would break lose, especially among those who recently paid $200 for one, if the existing Low-Viz was re-released. And. . . again. . . Yamato's credibility for any future "Limited" releases would be severely damaged.

that's alot of talking.

That Dr. Clay guy is so lame.

But what would we do if we stopped?

exactly!

...we can all stop bitching...

somehow...

I doubt that...

technically, we can stop bitching.... but who would wanna' do that?

i really want a 1/60 low-viz more than anything else. atleast that way it'll be more affordable to get multiples for customizing.

great idea, haterist!

I have a feeling the announcement was something more like:

"Yamato is planning on four valkyries at this time. . ."

that's exactly the tone of that announcement, you don't have to look it up. the guy was just pointing out that because of the success of the 1:48 line Yamato has released more valks than they originally announced. Plenty of people have mentioned that the 1:48 line has grown well beyond the original plan. You asked where it was said that Yamato was originally planning to release 4 valks. You don't gotta' jump down people's throats.

He is correct in saying that they never did say that they would release more Hikaru 1As and Roy 1Ses. . . yet they did.

Heeeeeeeey, he WAS right. So what were you bitchin' about?

Listen, I agree that Yamato shouldn't re-issue the low-vis. But, can't that fanboy dream without you writing him a condescending NOVEL about where he can shove said dream?

I don't think they will, but to me tha glass is half empty and OH! DO I WANT ONE!!!!!

Yamato also said they where only going to make four 1/48 valks

Where?

Here. the announcement that they were gonna' do 4 1/48 was made to Graham in an interview with some big Yamato guy, and the news was posted on THIS SITE. the other releases have been extra.

They also never said they would do reissues of the VF 1A Hikaru and VF 1S Roy.

Where?

let me get this straight.... you're asking where Yamato didn't say something? Seriously? Oooooooooooooooooooh-KAY!

Valk-1S, good observation, I wouldn't mind a CF 1/48

I have a VT-1 and it rools! The backpack is hard to get locked in the upright position, it's sooper-tight, but once it's up there, IT'S UP THERE! the locking mechanism is sooooo tight, that in the package the backpack isn't locked in to position. It's sooooo tight that it isn't locked into position in any of the photos on the packaging or in the instruction (except for the photos showing how to lock the backpack into the up position.)

Actually, it is not in Yamato's best interest to "re-release" a product that they explicitly said was "limited production."... blah blah blah... it was "Limited Production."

I think Kingnor beat you to that point.

Hirohawa, I feel your pain, I too missed out on the low-vis... from now on, if Yamato says it's gonna' be a limited release, pre-order!

you're the one who suggested that the idea wasn't "simple" enough for most Macross fans... but anyways, I've retracted my idea.

Uh, you really should read what I said more closely. Here is what I said:

You can call it a "simple" concept if you want. And to you, it might be. But others might feel differently about Macross, and how Kawamori's decisions influence it. Really, it all comes down to how you view an artist's intention and its effect on a final piece of art. Or, indeed, if a piece of art can ever truly be considered final

So, exactly where do I say that it's too complex for most Macross fans? Seriously. . . where? It was you who was repeatedly claiming that the concept was "simple" (and thus expressing exasperation that us morons were unable to grasp it. . . something you just came out and said later).

I'm glad we're done here. . . because now it's just getting odd.

H

Dude! You win, it's okay calm down...

hey, Fred the French! are you gonna' let zorclone talk to you like that?