DeeBot

There was an interview hint that Alto would . I think we got it in this episode, with the "I'm going to kill Ranka!" bit. It seems to fit the evidence. If so, though, does that mean the love triangle has been resolved (and we just don't realize it yet)? Maybe "Ranka wins" is the right answer after all. Or maybe that interview response was misleading, and it's going to be open right up until the end.

Arr, except she wasn't drunk! It wasn't alcoholic! I've been racking my brain over what she was, then, if not drunk. Alto warned her not to gulp her drink down. Maybe she's just having a tummy ache? Maybe she's just faking it. Maybe she just wishes she were drunk. Or maybe it's a symptom that something's eating her brain?

Considering the interview revelation that Grace is , if she fits the typical archetype, it may well be that her goals and Galaxy's goals don't actually coincide. This could lead to either Galaxy stabbing her in the back at the last moment (a possibility I found rather interesting), or Grace outmaneuvering everyone and making off with the prize (which would certainly be in character, but we don't know how clever the Galaxy side is). This also might provide a clean way to partially resolve the questions about Galaxy: Grace wins (maybe temporarily), Galaxy loses, but Galaxy is never implicated in Grace's schemes and goes on to lick their wounds and plot another day. Fans are frustrated that justice isn't served, but eventually come to accept that Grace is the only real mastermind in the plot.

You obviously need Alto to come and help you straighten it out a bit.

Her plane described a path known as a stall: Increasingly high angle of attack, until flow separation occurs, and the plane loses all lift. This generally leads to a crash, unless the pilot is high enough to recover. Since Sheryl's airplane doesn't have a pilot, crashing is pretty much the conclusion you should be drawing from the fact that it stalled out. Of course, there's no need to actually animate that... the viewer should be able to draw his or her own conclusion. I guess some people would actually need to see the airplane lawn-dart to accept that, though. Sheryl's plane is incidentally the way I usually fold my paper airplanes. It's a much simpler technique than whatever Alto uses.

But... but what about that eye-catch, where Klan and Michel seemed to live happily ever after? Wasn't that all a lie, too?

I was just looking at some screen caps of past episodes, and yet another thing struck me... Candle burning in the wine glass, during dinner. Very romantic, right? The screen cap I saw that jolted me was the one of the memorial... composed of a number of candles, some in glass holders. Is there a parallel there? Is this yet another death flag? Or maybe I'm reading too much into it, and it's just what it originally looked like?

On a different note, anyone else feel incredibly sad watching the last scene in the preview, where Sheryl appears to be performing, in slow motion, and just looks truly happier than we've seen her for a while? I can't shake the feeling that it's a death flag. But it's just a preview, so I'm doing my best to ignore it.

Or... is there? (Bold emphasis is mine.) One of the recurring themes of Macross is the almost mystical power of music and culture. Ranka became quite the overnight singing sensation; perhaps it wasn't just because she has a great voice. It might be possible, under the rules the Macross universe operates under, for the Vajra to attack humanity purely through Ranka's song. (Alternately, Galaxy choosing Frontier because of its lack of cybernetics may have been because Galaxy believed this would make Frontier more resistant to Vajra influence, giving them enough time to make their back-hack.) I assumed a more prosaic theory, though. Regardless of whether or not Leon believes his own lies regarding Ranka's intentions, Alto clearly seems to think it's a credible idea. The comparison here seems to be a Trojan horse. Use Ranka to gain a foothold of trust in the human world, then use that foothold to destroy us. Perhaps by learning more about humanity's weaknesses. Perhaps by tempting humanity to join the Vajra mind link, with possibly fatal consequences for the species. Or, <insert your private theory here>.

Well, we'll see. I have a theory that that might have been what happened to Ranshe.

I also find this "spoiler" pretty hard to believe (maybe kresphy finally snapped), but am I the only one who can see a "kill them all" ending actually being uplifting? Like, maybe when you get vaporized around the Vajra planet, you go to a happy place in fold space. Then Michel and Klan could be re-united, just like wolfx & company want.

Ending up with nobody?

I did my rewatch a little bit past the halfway point, but I'm not doing another one until the last two episodes come out. It's just too soon to be developing whole new lines of speculation, with the final two pieces so close in reach.

Bobby's one of the girls, he wouldn't be in this picture.

Great link (although still a pretty confusing story). I also thought it was a neat idea (although I couldn't parse half of the initial comment, so I was hoping someone would clear it up ). I'm not sure there's as little to it as just talking about the past, though. There have been a number of shots of hands clasping things, and not being able to let go. (Ranka in the shelter, later Sheryl in her sick bed on Galia 4, etc.) This seems to dovetail so neatly with the plot device in the play, I have to think there must be some symbolic connection with all this. (Not to mention there's also some gender confusion when it comes to Alto, and his personal relationships also seem kinda messy.) I just don't believe the play Alto is famous for was chosen so randomly; there has to be some larger thematic connection. Now, of course Alto isn't going to be following that script word for word, but still, there might be some spiritual parallels...

Wow. Do people really need it spelled out that much for them? Keep in mind that anime in general is overall less dialogue-heavy than a lot of Western media; you have to read between the lines almost all the time. What if... what if they already did? The Vajra can instantaneously fold; humanity hasn't really developed that technology fully yet. If the Vajra successfully attacked Earth and/or Eden, Frontier might not find out for weeks or months... I don't think it's happened because it'd be too much of a plot twist, but it's well within Vajra capabilities. Whether they could overcome the defenses at Earth in particular, considering what kind of resistance Frontier alone has been putting up, is also an open question. I think it's a mistake to think about the Vajra in terms of their physical bodies. The true Vajra are (or rather, is) in the fold network. The corporeal Vajra are just a means to an end, apparently involving fold quartz. The real Vajra is the aggregate of all the V-type organisms. I'm reminded of the comment about the alien mind from Ender's Game (might have been in one of the sequels), where killing off a few of the individuals was just the mind's way of getting another mind's attention. Little more than a poke, not comprehending that individuals were important for humanity. I don't think the situation with the Vajra is exactly parallel, but I think there's a similar discounting of the individual Vajra bodies. I got the impression Alto did all the cooking, although maybe Sheryl suggested the recipe, since she initially started off helping. It's been quite obvious for a while that Sheryl knows almost nothing about domestic matters, being a sheltered pop star and all. (I wonder if she ever got her laundry done.)

I dunno... with subs, episode 23 is really making me think the Alto x Sheryl ending is less and less likely.

That Alto ends up with Nanase?

Or maybe... maybe that's just what we're supposed to think! And the Vajra really are ruthless killers! My goodness, Alto is on the right side! Everyone else is doomed!

I think it's just that she's human. The Vajra are an alien intelligence, hard to fathom. Leon speculates that the Vajra chose her as a bridge with humanity, and while he's an unreliable source that casts this in the most negative possible light, there may be some truth to this. Grace's faction exploits this in the opposite direction; once Ranka is linked in and begins remembering things, her faction can follow that signal back into the Vajra network.

I don't think that means we started off as fish-men, either, any more than the Protoculture probably resembled actual bird-men. Considering that the source for the whole fish business is Mayan oral tradition, you have to take it all with a grain of salt. Not saying that the legend isn't true, but it's myth and meant to be taken metaphorically. Tampering is a fact, but the nature of the tampering isn't clear. Mankind originated in the oceans, ultimately, but maybe not directly from fish. (Also, I've changed my mind again and decided Ranka is an evil war criminal. But not by choice! The Vajra made her do it!)

I dumped most of my recent speculation on the episode 23 thread, since I drew heavily from that episode for my theories for how this will all pan out. Basic points of my theory, though: I think Sheryl's going to live after all. I think Alto x Ranka is more likely than Alto x Sheryl now. Peace will be established after much carnage and a final song battle between Sheryl and Ranka, turning into a duet. The Galaxy conspirators will find the Vajra intelligence is more than they can handle, and be totally absorbed. Only two more episodes to go, though. So exciting! Although... maybe Sheryl won't live after all. Maybe she'll go down with the Frontier. I keep thinking Battle Frontier is going to bite it.

Yay, subs! A lot of things make more sense... but to my surprise, a lot of things make less sense, too. First off, the overarching plot: I agree with the theory that Grace's faction used Ranka to penetrate the Vajra fold network. It definitely seems like Grace is merging with the Vajra consciousness, whether by choice or not. This also might point out the interpretation of that mysterious comment concerning something the Protoculture hadn't achieved: Transcendence of physical form. Assuming the Protoculture is really gone, of course... It seems like fold quartz isn't something only the Vajra can produce, but since the Vajra are like bees, it's easier to go collect it from them rather than doing it ourselves. Man-made fold quartz will probably be possible, following the series. Interesting about the description of the Vajra fold network as resulting from a kind of intestinal bacteria. This might have just been a metaphor: Comparing the V-type virus to symbiotic intestinal bacteria, rather than really meaning to classify them as bacteria. But maybe they just didn't do the research. (Or just really liked the line about the Vajra thinking with their gut.) Incidentally, I have to concede that this episode seems to make it more likely that Sheryl will probably live. Darn. I'm predicting a song battle, with Sheryl on the Frontier trying to defeat Ranka (at least at first). I think she'll have grown stronger, but she can't beat Ranka. At that point, she'll probably become linked with Ranka, and they'll have enough strength together to overcome all the fighting factions. At which point, perhaps the viruses invading Sheryl's brain will retreat of their own accord; this episode seems to imply that there's some level of purposeful control (Ranka's still alive, after all), that they don't just blindly invade everything, but head for the brain to kill it. Alternately, Sheryl may push herself too far in episode 24 (the bit about not taking her medicine so she can be stronger might foreshadow that she overdoes it), and won't be able to participate in the final battle after all. In which case, I figure she probably will die. Someone else will need to take her place... that would be kinda a lame ending, though. The Vajra are possibly some sort of immune system for the fold consciousness, a mechanism to protect it from people like Grace who seek to exploit it. Grace says something about the Vajra noticing them; I wonder if she was just referring to the CF-27s, and she somehow sabotaged the meeting between Ranka and the Vajra by her very own hostile presence? Combined with the idea that the Frontier fleet were drawn into the conflict by Grace & company, it seems like they have some sort of irritant that provokes a hostile reaction from the Vajra. (Perhaps their own fold net?) I'll close out with some shipping speculation. With the subs, the episode seem to hint pretty strongly that whatever romantic relationship Sheryl and Alto have right now isn't real. It might just be a smokescreen (the timing of when Sheryl drops in on the conversation with Klan might hint at that), but taken at face value, it seems to imply that Alto is acting out the role of being with Sheryl because it's what's needed from him, and that Sheryl knows this, yet can't help herself from taking advantage of him, because she really does need him right now. In which case, it seems like Sheryl's love is ultimately the unrequited kind after all... Thinking back on the series as a whole, Alto always seems to maintain more of an emotional distance with Sheryl, too. With Ranka, he seems more comfortable with himself, but with Sheryl, he's always resisting her advances (out of a sense of self-preservation at times, if nothing else). In this episode in particular, I never really got the vibe that he was in love with Sheryl, but that he was doing his duty, going through the motions. It seemed kinda joyless and one-sided; more dinner with a good friend going through a bought of sickness, than with a lover. That bodes ill for an Alto x Sheryl outcome. The writers seem to be going to some effort to try and explain some of the characters' inconsistencies, too. Alto apparently comments that Sheryl acting like a spoiled child isn't really in character for her (at least, not at this point in the story), especially considering that she isn't actually drunk. (That was a surprise for me! I can see why Alto wouldn't want to get Sheryl drunk, though. It's not gentlemanly, and he has a hard enough time fending her off as it is.) Could it be a side effect of the medicine she's taking? He looks at the medicine bottle right after, but I have a hard time interpreting what he means here. The scene with Luca is also a bit ambiguous for me; I'm not sure if she hasn't been taking it ever since Grace cut her off, or if she's been taking it on a trial basis again, then stops when she realizes it's diminishing her usefulness as a fold wave modulator. Maybe it's not the medicine, but rather she's just trying too hard to preserve the illusion of a real relationship, because she acts quite seriously when Alto's not around. We flashed back to her childhood, and it seems the sort of relationship she has with Alto, illusionary though it might be, is a childhood fantasy of hers. As a consequence, she regresses to a child-like stage when she's trying to fulfill that fantasy. The idea that Alto acts as the situation requires would also explain some of his impenetrability as a character. He's not just a fictional character, he's a fictional character playing fictional characters. We never see the real Alto because he's constantly hiding it behind the various Altos that duty demands of him. For all his impulsiveness, maybe Alto never really does what he truly wants. That might be why people keep asking him what his reasons are, because his reasons aren't true to himself.

Anybody want to comment on when Sheryl cut her finger? Since the V-type virus is blood-borne, I assumed she was protecting Alto by not letting him take a look at it. I don't know what they're saying here, though, so maybe someone can illuminate? This also leads me to believe that they probably haven't, ahem, exchanged any other bodily fluids. Sheryl is too mindful of Alto's health to risk something like that.

I agree it's kinda vague, at least going by the translations that other people have posted. I've been pushing the "it's definitely Alto x Ranka!" angle mostly to tweak the Sheryl shippers. Still, I think there may be something to it. Maybe Alto really has been in love with Ranka the whole time. The thing is, if Sheryl really "knew all along," well, maybe she's right. It could just be a set-up for a classic romantic misunderstanding--maybe Sheryl just has really low self-esteem right now, full of self-doubt--but we already got that with Ranka running in with Alto holding Sheryl. Rather, it may well be Sheryl's generally-correct intuition kicking in, picking up on something in-universe that we outside observers didn't or couldn't. If Sheryl's known all along that Alto never could and never would truly love her, it would explain an awful lot. Like all her odd, vaguely jealous looks. She may never have truly been trying to win Alto's heart, she just wanted to borrow it for a little while.