Sundown

The analogy's fine, and I know that's sort of what they were going for, hence the hot rod speeders and the diner scene. But regardless of how we explain away those designs, they come across somewhat weak visually, IMO. It feels too much as if someing tried too hard to do something "different" when they should have been paying more attention towards visual cohesion-- and that they drew too much from real life 50's and 60's influences which only jarred you out of immersion rather than making you believe it was something in a galaxy far, far away, that had an established "feel" for the last 20 years. I did like a few of the trade federation designs (love the federation landing ship) and that red diplomatic ship in the beginning of EPI. That particular ship showed evolution, and looked like it fit into the universe 20-30 years prior. McQuarrie succeeded in designing ships and equipment from different planets that felt different and yet had a cohesive feel. They just felt real and functional. This could also be due to PT's mediocre CG, with less than photorealistic lighting models-- Most any CG stillframe from the PT screams CG. But again, regardless of how we expalin things away, it can be argued that the designs by themselves simply aren't very strong. But that's a largely subjective thing, at least to some extent. They sell because it's Star Wars. I think we can agree on that. At any rate, I'm more concerned about the designs aesthetically and thematically, and not merely their commercial viability. The two are hardly the same thing. I'll concede that the visual quality of the current designs are vaguely adequate for selling toys and merchandise. But that's not where my objection lies. At any rate, I still argue that the quality of Star Wars started to decline when Lucas no longer had to listen to others, and started to design, write, change, and edit only for himself. It's not oddball logic taken to an extreme that causes one to deduce that the SR-71 could have been the inspiration to the Nabooian transport. It's simply intuition, right or wrong, as both craft have a very similar feel, and share many major primary design elements. But I think you know that-- else you wouldn't be bringing up the Concorde in hopes of showing the silliness of that logic. If merely passing and coincidental similarity in a few design features is really the weight of our argument regarding the two crafts' similarities, then your concorde example would have been lost on us, and we would have heartily agreed that the Nabooian transport is a rip off of the Concorde as well. But we don't... so we obviously don't buy into that logic, and don't judge on the basis of a few coincidental similarities either. At any rate, It's pretty obvious that the YF-19 was inspired in part by the X-29, the VF-1 inspired by the F-14, and the YF-22 the F-23. I don't think Kawamori would deny that. I'll also pose that the fact that this whole argument even exists may attest to the Nabooian design's weakness, in bearing resemblance to something so recognizable, when IMO, Star Wars craft should almost and always differ drastically from craft of our own world. If so many folks think SR-71, when it's supposed to be a craft galaxies and eons away, then we may have a problem. I'm guessing this was the mindset the OT designers operated under, but George obviously doesn't hold to that now, in liberally drawing real world things and shoving them into Star Wars without making their origin unrecognizable first. I'm exaggerating the resemblance to the SR-71, but take a gander. Move the windows forward a tad, paint black, and add tail fins. That's pretty darned close to a SR-71. At any rate, still not a fan of the design. The other Nabooian craft also does bear more than passing resemblance to many of the flying wing aircraft designs. Last I checked, streetlights don't have little side vanes, don't have a glass canopy, don't have a mounted gun, and don't rotate in different modes of operation. And it remains that I never, ever, drew the connection between the Slave I and a streetlamp when I'd first saw it, nor the many years afterward until I'd actually read about where the inspiration for the shape came from. That's strikes me as a more successful use of inspiration over imitation. At any rate, I still think that the strength of the OT designs lie in that nearly none of the craft designs bore any resemblance to any craft that exist in real life, yet manage to appear functional, believable, and viable somehow. They succeeded in jointly creating the look of a viable universe that indeed looks far, far away. The PT has too many designs that bear too close a resemblance to something actually existing for my taste. Eh. *shrug* In the end, viewing the OT, I see characters, sets, and vehicle designs that make for a believable and gritty universe onscreen. I don't get the same feel watching the PT. I don't quite see the same believable universe, nor a "more refined and civilized" one from an age past. -Al

Not sure I agree that this is the natural and obvious solution for getting something "different", especially when visual evolution and continuity needs to be implied-- ie, It doesn't make sense to pick someone with a different sense of aesthetics, just for the sake of "different". It's entirely possible to pick a concept artist who appreciates the original designs, and yet aims to design something different and unique-- while still maintaining a similar "feel", to give the impression that there's some sort of continuity and theme. Chiang succeeded on a few designs, and failed on some others-- the ones that failed all felt out of place, unoriginal (ironic considering the intent to get away from the old designs) and largely forgettable, at least IMO. And at least in my funny way of thinking, it doesn't make sense to pick someone that disliked the original designs to design things for a fanbase that liked them. And in the end, regardless of how we criticze or justify Chiangs' design decisions, what remains is the strength of the art direction and designs themselves... and I simply feel them to be much weaker, less cohesive, and less compelling than those in the OT. Taking inspiration from something else is part of the design process. But a design's weakness because apparent when it's easily recognizable as derivative of something else (another ship/craft no less, not just an obscure light fixture), while contributing little that's unique and iconic on its own. I'd put both Nabooian ships in the latter category, while I'd never for once looked at the Slave I and thought "Hey! Ripoff of a streetlight!" -Al

Yeah, that's just mind boggling. The ships from the OT are iconic, and have a something to them that's kept them compelling and recognizable after all these years. If they don't agree with his sense of aesthetics, he might not have been the best person for the job, regardless of how long he'd been working at ILM. At any rate, a chromed SR-71 and then a chromed B-2 aren't exactly my ideas of great, compelling, and... well, Star Warsy designs. Heck, they're not even variable! -Al

Chiang left? Had no idea. Lucas may have pushed for smoother and more refined, but I do wonder if things would have looked different if he was given refined designs that were more McQuarrie-esque to choose from. Ah well... there are still a few designs that I like from the PT, like most of the Trade Federation droid and ship designs. But I absolutely despise the Super Battle Droid and most of the new stuff in AOTC. =P Not sure who exactly to blame these for. -Al

Part of this is due to having a different concept art director. Doug Chiang, concept art director of the Prequels, has a decidedly different take on art from Ralph McQuarrie, the original concept artist for the OT. McQuarrie's stuff tends to be more realistic, gritty, subdued when necessary... partly because he's worked at Nasa and designs things as how functional mechanical items should look, even in a fanciful galaxy, far, far away. There are actually elements of McQuarrie's designs that Chiang's mentioned not being fond of (not sure exactly which, and to what extent), but it does explain the deviation of the newer style towards flashy, eye-catching, and a little bit campy. Lucas just merely gives vague ideas and nods when he sees a design he likes, but it's up to the concept designer to give him good ideas to choose from, or perhaps even shield him from some bad visual designs that he might end up choosing. -Al

Dubious. Soo... He was also too busy to find one single voice actor to dub all the stormtrooper dialogue (and there wasn't much), so that they'd sound the same, being you know, clones... and yet had enough time to find multiple actors to dub different Stormtrooper lines? Hard to buy into. EU material is helpful, but one EU source will describe Stormtroopers as all being clones while the next source will contradict it. Relying on EU too heavily poses problems, as Lucas has already invalidated many EU books on one point or another with the Prequels, and I doubt it'll be any different with Ep III. (See, back on topic!) -Al

Don't say that over at stardestroy.net. *cackles* Too bad his compellingness is just a little bit undermined by his whiney teenager self. I've just always imagined Anakin as honorable and noble, albiet enjoying his popularity a tad much... and who everyone else was enamoured with (not merely tolerate with dark reservation). Who for all intents was genuinely good. Would have made his fall more dramatic, even if we knew it was coming. Instead, it just feels like the Jedi are a bunch of idiots, coddling a whiny angst-ridden teenager. The character is just not genuinely likeable, and there's no point where you actually root and hope against hope for the fella. There's also no presence of any real struggle in the character between light and dark before he commits to an action, like there was in the OT with both Vader and Luke. He only has tantrums, slaughters at will, and cries about it later... it just doesn't feel like Vader, or resembles the old Anakin redeemed. But I suppose that's why Lucas trimmed down old-Anakin-Shaw in ROTJ some. But that's a whole other can of worms, ie, the one labeled "Why I'm largely annoyed by the Prequels thus far." Tell you the truth, I did actually like the insinuated connection with Boba's armor in some preproduction art resembling Trooper armor more than it does on film. Maybe it's not entirely the idea of their connection that bugs... just the way it was handled and its presentation. -Al

Personal ability to enjoy something does not necessarily denote one's particular political stance. I mean, I can enjoy Robotech. I know that makes me a little daffy. But at the same time, I abhor HG and their business practices. Macek is, yes, a hack, amongst other things... although he probably doesn't deserve the character assasinations he receives on a regular basis. Let's get some perspective: He. Made(?). A. TV. Show. But it doesn't turn us into horrid people if we happen to like it on some level. Or Battle of the Planets-- for reasons that were totally unintended-- for that matter. The only thing that makes us guilty of is bad taste. -Al

I've always found troopers being recruits, "reprogrammed" to be completely loyal to the Emperor to be a much more interesting an idea than clones. Whether they're clones or recruits might not affect how the actual story plays out, but the ambience, nature, and feel of the on-screen villianous hordes changes some, or at least it does here. I'm a little bit more comfortable with Stormies being of all different stocks and donors. I just personally hate the nerfed Boba idea. One of the things that's bugged me about Star Wars is that previous to the Prequels, the Star Wars universe felt so big, with background described in vaguarities that spawned your imagination. Although some of the characters seemed to share backgrounds, or had connections of some sort, it still felt as if most of the main characters crossed paths by chance. But when the Prequels came out, we found that everyone really knew everyone else already, that no one encountered each other by chance, that it was one big incestuous pool of characters (beyond Leia and Luke) who then spawned other characters, ie, Boba and the Clones, and then the Troopers... Anakin and 3PO-- using one character to explain another, when it just wasn't needed... it all just felt contrived, as if Lucas didn't have any new ideas left over, and wasn't willing to spend any time creating new and real characters that stand from scratch on their own, without having anything to do with the OT. Every single character introduced as new feels largely inconsequential, and the only ones that have any worth in terms of character development are the old ones... and they stand only because of what was in the OT. It feels as if Lucas is relying on the audience's attachment and fondness for the existing OT characters alone, and milking it by plugging them in other places willy nilly, regardless of how it effects the story as a whole. With the Prequels, the Star Wars universe shrunk. And I guess Stormtroopers being clones of Fett carries some of that with me. But it would be a stronger telling if the genetic stock of the troopers did expand over the years. Or if they started incorporating recruits as a economic measure in order to build a large enough army to subjugate the entire galaxy, and to involve the citizenry in these efforts for the order, law, and glory of the Empire or some such. Or Sith mind trick. *cough* Palpatine *cough* Wouldn't be the first time, and it'd sure complete the incestuous character circle. -Al

Even ignoring EU and all sorts of difficulties that arise, we still have problems from onscreen camera evidence, supposedly considered "most canon". Different heights, different voices, troopers having conversations amongst themselves about inane things, with different voices, that just makes the scene work oddly if they were just identical copies of each other, born, bred, and tailored only to fight. It's obviously not "established" when we have to make assumptions based on lack of evidence and further reference. And obviously what exists allows for different interpretations, as evident in the uncertainty and arguing amongst fans. If it's not established explicitly, and there's still room for this amount of speculation and confusion, and there's no more forth coming... then it's bad story-telling. Not to mention that it takes away both something from the OT and the Clone Wars if the villians are still just clones. Nothing is unique or special or outstanding about the Clone Wars, set apart from the Galaictic Civil War, despite its nomer. But that's just my narrative opinion. I would also like to think that the Stormtroopers grew into something else beyond the batches of clones they started as. You know, development. Just because their armor bears a striking resemblance doesn't necessarily mean that the soldier underneath has to be absolutely the same, a clone. It does denote the heritage and origins of their units. I suppose the argument could be made that it strengthens their status as clones, by their visual similarities, but I don't think it's definitive enough to bank on, mainly because it wouldn't strike me as any more unbelievable to find that the Stormtroopers aren't clones. I'm not certain myself either way, and I just hope for Lucas's sake that he doesn't retroactively make the masses of villians in the OT nothing more than retarded versions of one of the most overrated characters, who had something like 10 minutes screen time in three movies, was mostly a bit role, and then was elevated to uber-god status because fans thought his armor looked somewhat neat. It's simply not set in stone yet, and that the stormtroopers are clones through and through is not the only valid conclusion that can be made with present evidence. And it's obvious in the OT that Lucas himself was mostly indecided about whether the Stormies were clones or not (most likely not), by the way the old scenes play and read. Of course he might claim otherwise now, but I find that hard to buy into. -Al

Got this from Gamespot: A source close to the negotiations said it was at a spring 2004 off-site meeting attended by top NFL officials that the league determined it would take the league license exclusive. GameSpot was told the league put the license up for bid and that EA was among as many as five software publishers competing for it. An EA spokesperson said today, "Obviously, exclusives are more expensive. We are most certainly paying a premium." So it looks like the NFL is as much or may be even more to blame for putting the license up for grabs in the first place. They might have initiated this mess as a money grab, and forced the issue among software developers, even if EA had been courting them for the exclusive license years prior. And it could have also been initiated partially by ESPN's lowballing last year. No one likes to see the value of their license drop because of a price war from its competing licensees. Oh well, at least we got one year of cheap sports games. -Al

You'd think so, but there's also fans who still have difficulty accepting that Stromtroopers are clones. Primarily because it's a dumb idea to have the entire Galactic Army to be nothing but a bunch of nerfed Boba Fetts. But in either case, it's neither been denied or confirmed absolutely (other than some Lucas offhanded commentary, which sometimes changes depending on what state of mind he happens to be) that the Stormies are all clones, all recruits, or some mixture of the two. The only thing we know for sure from AOTC is that the Clone Troopers were the progenitors of the Stormtrooper divisions. Whether they retained the cloned aspect 20 years later isn't something that's been revealed yet. We shall see. -Al

Makes sense to me. It smells of unabashed and unveiled jacking of customers, because now with the license in their hands exclusively, they can. Hrm... anyone know if the NCAA football license is still available to ESPN to make games out of? -Al

Not primary material, but in CINEFEX #2 p.8: "Effects unit art director Joe Johnston prepares a model nebula for photography. The swirling star formation was filmed with a slight rotation and incorporated into the final sequence. " I think it might be very possible that "nebula" was what was told to Cinefex, by special effects crew. My guess is there are different people involved in production that thought different things about the object. But most considered it a galaxy, as that's what it looks most like at first inspection. Conjecture, of course. The problem with that is that this "galaxy" is rotating on screen so fast that the rim would be travelling at something like 33 billion times the speed of light. *shrug* -Al

You just said it yourself. Its a novelization. That means its NOT canon. Its NOT the movie and therefore is NOT what can be taken as truth. There is no way that this is simply a new starsystem that is developing as there are bits of stars seen within the spirals. You cannot have self-illuminating hunks of matter smaller than a planet unless its something like a neutron star. Novelizations are considered 2nd level "canon". At any rate, it is not a galaxy, except by similar appearance, placed in the shot because it's iconic and "looks cool". The galaxy-like-object is referred to as a "spiral nebula" in concept art notes I believe, ie, more akin to something we've never yet encountered in modern astronomy than it is a real full-on galaxy. It's also physically impossible for the object to be a galaxy, as it's spinning much, much, much too fast on film-- so much so where most of the "galaxy" would be travelling at a speed much greater than light speed. Basically, there's more "canonical" evidence in production notes that it's not a galaxy than that it is. And Smith could probably direct and write-- direct and write Star Wars even-- better than Lucas can now. The best of the films were neither done nor written by Lucas, or at least not done alone by him. -Al

Not. Gatchaman. It's hilarious that this face -> didn't come up more often in this thread, and we folks just went right into speculating about it, like it's perfectly normal for a big American action movie producer to be making a live version of an obscure kid's anime TV show with a decided corny bent inherited from the 70's. Seriously, what would Bruckheimer be doing with a live-action Gatchaman? -Al

Hrm. We can hope EA's recent aggressiveness with both of these actions calls attention to itself from the anti-trust watchdogs. Though I patently doubt the NFL exclusivity buyout is something anyone can or would do anythng about. -Al

Yes. Now curious to see what happens if the 9mm strikes the flat of the blade. What was really odd was how the blade was moving once it broke off... sor of wavered in the air a little. -Al

Someone should strike back. Namely ESPN/Sega and attempt to sign an exclusive contract with the NBA and NBAPA and lock EA out of not-NBA Live 200whatever. I would seriously buy ESPN NBA every year if they were to do that, just to support that move, and to stick one in EA. Yeah, the innovation would go downhill there too, but NBA 2kX is better now than Live ever will be for some number of years. -Al

Me and most of the planet find you... baffling. Ya know, my answer to those who always whine about Asianphiles stealing "our" women... is that there's now one more of their women left available.

EA evil. Yes. But has anyone thought of the other side of the coin? It takes two entities to do the contractual tango. And the NFL sold out and turned its back on their other licensecees, for what looks to them at this moment to be a better or at least quicker money grab. -Al

That looks farging incredible!! I've never really liked the 1/60 GBP armor because of the silly football player shoulder pads... but this... never knew how good it could look without them. I didn't even recognize it for the 1/60 at first!! *prays the same thing can be done with the 1/48's* Maybe you oughta send these pics over to Yamato, as working proof that the GBP looks much better without the shoulder prosthetics. -Al

That bugs me to heck, too. The cheezy shoulder block attachments to make the missle pods sit on top of the shoulders, rather than hanging over on the toy like it would without. I'm guessing they're trying to match the way it looks in animation and line art, which is actually disporportionate... and impossible on toy that looks decent in battroid without armor. I'd rather do without the silly shoulder prosthetics, even if the missle pod fit is a little innaccurate. At least it'd look GOOD. It's the way that custom Armored VF-1J model had it. Hrm. Now if fulcy could make us custom shoulder missle pods without corny and disproportionate shoulder pad prosthetics. Hrm. *nudge nudge* -Al

Just because Kawamori decided to go insane and add strangeness upon strangeness to a story that worked well enough, doesn't mean that the original SDF should be thrown out of official-dom. In fact, it simply isn't. Besides, Kawamori himself has stated that he doesn't care that much about continuity. No reason to throw SDF out because *we* choose to be retentive about continuity, trying to line up things that don't line up, because the creator *didn't care* to line them up. -Al

It's simply innane to require one to have a working internet connection at all times he or she wishes to play a single player game that does not use the internet in any way, shape, or form. What if one's connection goes down? What if one does't have internet at my present time? What if someone might want to play it on a laptop somewhere where they don't have wireless or internet access? It's not an unreasonable request to ask a single player offline game to be playable without a live internet connection giving you the nod each time you click the Halflife 2 icon. And I dare say that it's borderline-innane to consider it a somehow perfectly reasonable expectation. It's a burdensome inconvenience that doesn't have to be. Simple as that. -Al