NightmarePlus

More about armor: conventional armor, even SWAG and ASWAG reinforced ones isn't cutting it. We have seen a large Vajra destroy a cruiser in one shot, Brera destroying a crippled Gitmo hulk also in one shot, and a SV-262 destroying a fully functional Gitmo, again in one shot. However, we have also seen a VF-31 using its pinpoint barrier to defeat such a SV-262 shot. Pinpoint barriers, not armour, is cutting it. That may explain the trend toward lighter VFs: instead of having a similar mass of improved armor capability that wouldn't cut it anyway, reduce it to increase mobility, and deploy pinpoint barriers everywhere.

Nitpicking here, Keith didn't destroy that ship with his cannon. He got in the AA Guns' dead zone and unloaded a salvo of Micro missiles into the ship via the launch bay.

Well, I've obtained Episodes 24 and 25.

On a scale of 1 to The Exorcist, how bad is this going to make me want to puke?

What Zinjo said.

I haven't yet seen the episode, but I'm gonna predict from reading the spoilers that in the final episode

Frejya isn't going to die at the end of series. Mikumo is going to give her the magical goodness to lengthen her life. Feels like they're switching roles, Mikumo is in Ranka's position (albeit forced by Klattu Barada Nikto), and Freyja is in Sheryl's position, but not nearly as confident as Sheryl. So, Frejya is going to do something to snap Mikumo out of her funk, and either the SV and other protoculture attachments then become vulnerable to being wiped out, or Mikumo takes all of them, evolve to a higher life form, and folds away. (after all of this crap, why not...)

What would be shocking is if both Mikumo and Freyja bit the dust. I say it's possible for Mikumo just because she isn't a main character... far less likely for Freyja, if it happened, I think it would be unprecedented in a Macross series for one of the primary to die. It would be like Sheryl actually getting snuffed or Minmay biting the dust.

As for the NUNS fleet being destroyed, I don't suppose there were any new Macross class ships... or any Macross class ships with that fleet, was there? My guess is probably not. If they had an NMC go down like a bitch, then it is ridiculous.

Not a spoiler, but Seto is gonna rip this episode a new one.

"2 x Macross Cannons"

"12 x Quarter Cannons".

What kind of person wakes up in the morning and thinks "Who's day can i screw up?"

Wikipedia:

=

Laurie Maran (ラウリ・マラン Rauri Maran^?) Voiced by: Eiji Sekiguchi A staff member of N.U.N.S. Section Two. He is sent to Ragna to inform Chaos that the Protoculture ruins of the planet are to be destroyed to prevent the Windermere Kingdom from using them to amplify the Var Syndrome. Following his failed attempt to destroy the Protoculture ruins, he is killed in his fleet's failed assault on the Windermere Kingdom near Windermere IV's orbit.

=

If this be true and if "big" NUNS (as opposed to Voldor NUNS) and their jamming won't be heard from again, I'm disappointed. I was pretty sure that the fleet was a "first attempt", and that they knew it could fail - why else would they NOT send a Macross class? They just thought "if Var happens and the fleet falls into enemy hands, they should not get a Macross class". And three fleets with Macross class ships and far more redundancy in jamming are being prepared, right? RIGHT?

They failed due to a single good pilot. Simultaneous attack to get that pilot busy is so obvious, even the lackluster Chaos could pull that one off with the help of Voldor NUNS. A triple-fleet attack would be a pretty obvious response.

I can believe in Chaos winning *before* NUNS had the time to attack - and saving Windermere from the dimension-weapon genocide that a NUNS success would be. (Saving NUNS itself from that, too. A planet-killing response would bring them to Darth Vader level, and I somehow can't imagine them doing anything less).

But if NUNS actually gave up after losing one fleet, suspension of disbelief is gone.

That doesn't even seem right, imo. IIRC, the fleet that was sent to Windermere IV seemed to have been smaller than the one we saw in either episode 14 (forgot which episode the briefing was) and that group was led by one of the officers seen in the briefing.

-EX-Gears would have been so useful.

^ This. This so much. Did the writers forget that those were a thing. They're literally in the enemy's motherland, surrounded by all sides with no way to get back home. EX-Gears would have at least helped them evade capture longer.

Perhaps at epsiode 7 or 8, But at this stage I'd like to see some emotion of these characters. Would be nice to see him as something more than just a Cliche, If Keith truly wants to win this war then he needs Pilots with self control, not Bogue who just yells & screams his anger all day long. Frankly Bogue reminds me to much of Nora at times from Mac Zero... was great when she got wasted!

Then Keith could just simply have Bogue grounded and have another pilot take his place, not shooting Bogue. At this stage it's better to wait for the movie(s) to see any emotions between these characters and just let the series take it's disappointing course.

Wouldn't make a difference at this point.

Honestly I was cheering for either Roid or Hayete to throw Bogues ass over the cliff!! Be really honest this series would have redeemed itself just a bit if Keith had shot Bogue while saying "Never harm a woman", I would have been pleased with that.

Then that would have been made Keith even more of a hypocrite since he was gonna lob off Freyja's head back in episode 7 or 8.

So why did the Scooby gang go to Windermere thru the Ruins-provided/powered Fold Gate?

They're going for a strike at the Winderbags' throat in order to bring the war to a quicker end.

Are you shure that the NUNS' weren't coordinating with Chaos? Not saying your wrong I'm just not willing to make that call pre subs mind I have zero Japanese.

FTFY mang.

Speaking of which, what was Keith's relationship like with dear-dead dad (being the bastard child)? He had the whole "loyal soldier"-attitude up when ever we saw the 2 in the same scene. And don't tell me it's in the bloody manga.

It's in the manga.

My entertainment on this forum is partly waiting for Seto to post anything in detail. It is always fun to see him get into the gritty details. Having self-translated archives of facts to back up his stuff is of course the boon to his ability to do this, and it is why I pretty much straight up ask him things now.

This entire debate though, despite being able to be solved by facts as such, seems more or less about whether the VF-31 is actually an all around better fighter than other 5th generation models. Not counting the YF/VF-24 which is likely Superman compared to other 5th Gen's Captain America (yes I am comparing between DC and Marvel, get over it), and being considerate to remove YF-29 and YF-30 for their obvious advantages (and because neither can be mass produced as is), this really comes down to comparing the VF-25, VF-27, and VF-31

(side note, did anyone do anything with the number 28? I know Olympia fielded a YF-26 that lost to the YF-25, but I've heard nothing of any 28s)

The VF-27 is so heavily specialized for a particular type, cyborg pilots almost exclusively are needed to fly it, that it also is technically not a fair assessment for general use.

So really, for comparing 5th gen mass produced VFs we just have to decide if the VF-31 is better or on par with the VF-25. I personally find the design more aesthetically pleasing, and the YF-30 inspired transformation scheme seems more robust to me. I do not recall if VF-25 has any internal missiles without super parts or not. There is one questionable scene in Frontier ep.1 that implies it, but it is never really seen to fire any without extra parts. So the 31s light missile count does give that an advantage perhaps.

I think I am more with Seto on the weapon load out placement choices. Arm cannons should be beam weapons since we know it works. A real question worth asking anymore is with the increasing ubiquity of smaller beam weapons and now heavy quantum beam gunpods, is there really much advantage to a projectile gun much anymore? Maybe as a backup? The 29 sure doesn't seem to be hampered much with only its hip guns (I know there is a slight curiosity on if the ES-25As are the hip guns same as on the 25 or if the 29 has some weird head guns, but I'm more inclined to think Chronicle made a typo there). And to credit the hip guns on the 25 can be either projectile ES-25A or the ROV-25 beam guns so the VF-25 can choose to go all beams save for its gunpod.

(Branching off there, assuming the 29s hip guns are the ES-25A as makes sense, though it is not stated, it can probably mount the ROV-25s as well.)

I can see uses for a traditional projectile gunpod still perhaps... and the modular weapons pack of the 31 does imply the option that a pack could exist that outfits it with a projectile gunpod instead of a beam gunpod. However, we have seen absolutely no other packs fielded by Xaos so we can't really confirm that yet to my knowledge. Personally, I'd just keep a dedicated gunpod of some time like the 25 has and then still use the modular pack however useful for a mission, whether with additional beam gun or otherwise (such a configuration would be closer to the YF-30's setup).

So overall, the VF-31 has a great modular system that gives it flexibility, but the 31s used by Xaos seem to squander that flexibility, partly because their mission doesn't call for it (thus wasting the potential of the fighter), and because they probably don't have access to all the things that Brisingr NUNS would use once they adopt VF-31's (which hampers them just as much) again because their mission is different from the military.

SMS on the other hand was sold as doing the military job without red tape and liability, so they got all the toys Frontier NUNS would also use and they used it all very eagerly and effectively (and they are also likely just a better run organization). So SMS may have had a less modular VF in the 25 but they utilized is way better than Xaos uses the 31.

Pros and cons weighed, the 31 can be a better investment if used to its potential, it is currently not. At the same time, the 25 seems to have some smarter design choices on it. More Shinsei blood will do that though, Surya Aerospace is still new to the game after all.

I could be wrong, but i remember reading somewhere that the 28 was essentially Galaxy's answer to Frontier's 29.

Wow, after browsing through this, all I can say is I wish I understood Japanese so I could read the master files instead of looking at the pretty pictures.

Wonder how much a VF-27 (a real one) would cost in dollars today, double of the F-22?

If we had the tech to build a 27?

The funny thing is delta's feels a bit like IBO or 85th MS team or one of the smaller tighter stories but spread over a grander conflict than the origional macross.

Nah, a Macross OVA where the story is told from the point of view of a group of standard NUNS pilots would have more of a 8th MS team feel to it.

Any chance it was Hayate's new VF-31? I don't know where they get their fighters from, but if Epsilon is supplying both sides, then maybe?

Nah. Kaos gets their VF-31s from Surya Aerospace.

Seems to have them here

and here

Otherwise it would have no forward facing cannons in fighter mode (as the gunpod can't fire in that mode)

Ah, never mind then. Must have been an animation error or i'm just blind to detail. e_e

Another difference between the Kairos and the Seigfrieds might be that the Seigfrieds have the wrist mounted guns. I can't get an image right now but the Kairos seen in episode 6 seem to lack the wrist guns of Delta's Seigfrieds.

Question : Why VF-31A have different wing design compared to VF-31 J/C/F/S/E ?

The Seigfrieds are a Kaos custom build of Surya's VF-31A Kairos.

That 22's cockpit has what appears to be an EX-Gear.

If the Aerial Knights proceed in actually attacking a NUNS core world, such as Eden or Earth, it will be interesting to see what central NUNS is using, as they are implied to have the best equipment. Also, they would most likely have more competent pilots than in backwater areas, and if they have a really good pilot like Isamu, I don't think the Aerial Knights would come back from that mission alive.

I'd be extremely disappointed if the writers have the Aerial Knights steam roll though even the Federal Forces with little issue and/or has the Feds using the 171 instead of a full spec 24 if they do end up attacking the core worlds.

20. 2/3rd away from kicking the bucket.

I guess it's Roid Rage.

Badum tiss!

Have you seen Mikumo? I'd be interested in her too if I were Roid, The man may need decorative glasses, but he is not blind.

What??? and have the Aerial knights need more than a one shot kill???? That is just blasphemy, it's hard enough as it is that the Aerial Knights can't point to something and shout bang, to have it blown up.

Yeah, the NUNS pilots may vote for that, but the pop idols will all refuse.

1. It puts their lives in the hands of incompetent NUNS pilots.

2. They can't move around in that tiny cockpit for the VF-171, so no feeling the rythms.

3. The helmet will mess up their gorgeous hair.

To be fair, the NUN pilots always have to deal with either mind control or beings who have superior physical traits and superior fighters. They're not so much as incompetent rather than they get the odds stacked against them in every engagement we've seen so far.

That whole scene felt a bit Gundam-esque to me.