Noyhauser

have you watched LOGH beyond episode 40?

also the FPA wasn't really inept. They suffered from one terrible battle plan that the admirals themselves condemned. Admirals like Ulafu, Bulock were certainly a match for their counterparts like Reuenthal and Bittenfield, and the FPA's forces were never shown to be inept tactically.

As someone pointed out before political leadership was lacking as well.

As for the feasibility of this supposition, it should be remembered that when the fold engine disappeared, the SDF-1 lost its fold communications, but the Macross Cannon could still be fired (after the transformation, that is). There is more than a way to bend the bounds between "our" universe and the superdimension one. It seems that summoning energy from the "other" universe is actually a lot easier than folding a spaceship from this universe to the other. Actually, the super dimension spatial theory should be used mostly as a mean to keep a spaceship unharmed during folding; after all, while folding they are inside a Macross Cannon beam.

This sounds disturbingly familiar to what the Protoculture Evil series was attempting to do (from what I remember.) They were attempting to derive power from an alternate sub universe. I took this from the compendium.

PC 2868

On the [aforementioned] scientifically advanced planet, the existence of a sub-universe is confirmed. According to survey results, this sub-universe is abound with super high levels of extra-dimensional energy, and this energy is discovered to have the potential for application.

The trial production of super dimension energy gates which can supply energy from the sub-universe is begun, and genetically engineered biological super dimension organs are developed. These biological super dimension organs are extremely compact, and they are expected to supply enormous amounts of energy.

Because of power problems, the trial production begins implementing the technology from the terminated "Evil Series." No problems are uncovered in simulations.

The internal conflicts within the Stellar Republic revives the development of the "Evil Series."

http://www.anime.net/macross/story/chronol...0000/index.html

I think it correlates neatly with your theory, no?

edited to post citation link

My vote for worst military ever (non-anime): The Empire, who cannot beat a group of midget bears with gliders, logs, and some rocks, despite the fact they have an entire space station of troops in orbit and have at-ats, at-sts and speeder bikes. Pathetic. Anyone ever heard of air support? A couple of tie-bombers might have stopped that rebel strike force and their furry friends real quick.

BAHAHAHH I totally forgot that one. What really got to me is when emperor palpatine says "my best legion of troops are guarding the facility" then not a minute later they are getting killed by furry creatures. Man if this was the best the empire had to offer.....

Where did you get your information for the VF-XX?

Thats sort of a mismash of stuff I read over a period of time. An old copy of either Protoculture Addicts or Mecha Press had done a series of articles on the Macross II mecha. IIRC, the VF-XX was either a set of schematics from a captured Zentran Factory or it was built using new technology gleaned from this factory. I think I remember this being connected with the Neld Space Fleet Crisis.

It was mecha press. I've long lost the magazine but they had a huge thing on it, which immediately came to mind when I read your post.

If you think about it, the only true "victory" the Empire ever had was blowing up defenceless Alderran in Episode IV. They couldn't even crush the Rebels on Hoth, leaving tonnes of them to escape.

Then don't. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything you don't want to. Just stick with your Yamato's and leave everyone else to make their own choices about what to spend their money on.

Unfortunately that would be a correct statement if HG wasn't preventing us from aquirng what we want, but they are. My local hobby store won't carry this Hasegawa VF models because the distributer is unable to carry the product due to HG. What does HG have that is even equivalent? nothing. I don't want toys I want my models. If I did want toys why shouldn't I be able to buy Yamatos? Until HG stops forcing me to buy their products I and most people on this board are going to bitch about it because we are getting the shaft.

Wow, what a coincidence, I started watching LOGH a few weeks ago, and right now it stands in my mind actually ahead of Macross as the best series I have ever watched (and I watched DYRL back in 1987 or thereabouts). I think the storyline is actually better than Macross (with all the intrigue and death), Character development as well (like with Lohengrahm's changes). And its not like a typical anime series that has j-pop, no it uses classical music that fits the moods. Death is realistically portrayed, and in a way more realistically than Macross or any other series I have ever seen.

Furthermore, the battles just seem realistic. The use of formations and tactics is just beautiful

the only thing that I think macross has going for it is of course vehicle design, and visuals. But to be honest, when i go to movies I don't like special effects as much as stories, and LOGH is just beautiful in these respects. It reminds me a lot of my favorite novel, War and Peace by Tolstoy, and it is a cinematic masterpiece.

Most people Aren't going to like to hear this, but the decision to build the Arrow was about the biggest error ever in Canadian Procurement, and deserved the end it got. It's current reputation has been the result of mythologizing by the Canadian press and honestly it doesn't deserve any of the hype it gets.

#1 The Avro Arrow was not the most advanced fighter of its day, sure it was fast, and had a lot of gadgets, but in the end it was a useless useless program. When it was concieved in the early 1950s, it was during the height of the Red bomber scare, where there fear was that Russia would send thousands of bombers over the north pole to nuke north america. Well by the late 1950s the Americans through the CIA and reconnaisance Flights figured out that the soviets had a mere pittance of bombers that was first imagined, and none had the range to reach north america's cities. Also the rise of the MRBM and the ICBM loomed a lot larger. So really the need for the Arrow was no there.

#2 The Arrow was not exceptional fighter. In actuallity it fell victim to the same interceptor blinders that US fighters had in the pre-vietnam era, only the Arrow was just that much worse off. Since the Arrow was to take on soviet bombers, it had to be fast, carry a lot of missiles and a radar large enough to guide them - ie be interceptors. As a result it suffered the same flaws that the F-4 would experience over vietnam. It was big, fast, and very unmanuverable. It had absolutely no cockpit vision, and relied upon radar and untested missiles as weapons. It had no cannons or machinegun. It was to carry a missile called the Sparrow II which was a new version of the Sparrow that was a radar guided fire and forget missile. However it was canceled by the USAF because it was deemed unfeasable. So it would have to carry the notoriously bad Sparrow I missile. The Arrow's radar was untested as well.

In a theoretical situation, had the Arrow ever got into a dog fight over vietnam, it would have been eaten alive by nimble Mig-17s and 21s. They would have a field day against the ungainy fighter that relied on poor missiles.

The thing was fast as hell, and may have been even faster than anything in the world at the time in 1960 with the Orienda Iroqois engine, however it had abysmal range, less than 600KM.

#3 The worst part of the project.- Cost. The thing was a money pit, and was about to get a lot worse. the cancelation of the Sparrow II would require a complete redesign of the system. The Radar system showed constant faults. The development costs for the Iroqois engine were insane. In many cases Canada did not have the industrial base to build its systems required and had to design them from scratch. Nobody was willing to buy it outside of canada, because it was so expensive and had little utility.

Sure the fighter may have been the most advanced of its time, but pour enough money into something and you can have the best of anything. Prime Minister Diefenbaker rightly culled the project, and bought cheaper less capable fighters instead.

It is kinda sad about what happened to the Canadian Aircraft industry afterwards, however in all honesty, the Arrow was an incredible disaster. Had it gone through, the Government would have been in such debt, and have an incredibly useless fighter for its troubles. So much the better.

This begs the question....

Has he watched Macross Plus yet?

Then the creators have it wrong. The daisy cutter is not a FAE (it doesn't even have a shape condusive towards good dispersal of an agent. The effect they portrayed in the OAV could only have occurred from an FAE bomb, the mushroom cloud seen before a detonation is the gaseous mixture being oxidized (mixed with air). the Daisy cutter is a big conventional bomb, that does not disperse its agent before detonation.

Any way you can tell them of their error?

But what have they done is the question? This isn't even much of an accomplishment. In the realm of the capability, its not really even space as we think about it, rather its the technical barrier into space. Okay, maybe the realtively low cost is a one advantage, but beyond that its not really that great of an accomplishment.

To be perfectly frank, I think of it as a waste of money, and over hyped at that.

If you want to talk about "commercialization of space" look at the billions invested in satellites. This market has effectively promped a virtual six way race in the construction oh heavy lift rockets including the Delta IV, the Ariane V, Titan IV, H-IIA, and the Long March 3. With the exception of the Long March the rest of the rockets were built to service the commercial market for satellites, especially for Geosyncronous orbit. (The Delta, Ariane and Titan, have similar ability to put 10,000 Kg into Geosyncrous orbit). Other progams like the Sea Launch Vehicle and the Pegasus are designed to be cheaper alternatives to getting things into space. Putting people in the space is really not much of an accomplishment compared to that market. I rank the Ansari X prize on the same level as mark Faucette trying to go around the world solo in a balloon... thats it.

Wish I could.

This flight, when it succeeds, may well be looked upon in future decades and/or centuries as one of the cusp events in the history of human expansion into space.

I think its kinda cool and all, but in all honesty, I don't think its going to be the watershed event that some people are proclaiming. In capability its limited, being a suborbital flight (and not even close to the capability of the first mercury capsules). Its basically an X-15 with passengers in what it does. The idea of "space tourism" today is so farfetched its mind boggling. Development of rockets have hit an effective technological plateau since the in 1970s, and progress since then has been incramental to say the least. And that is a government funded venture. What public funds are available for space tourism? Are there honestly thousands of people with billions of dollars clamoring to fund this? Not even close. And yet that is precisely what is needed.

Look at commercial airlines, what is the type of development scheme has gone. There have been no "technological breakthroughs" in the private sector, instead there has been a distinct move towards efficiency and profitability in technological developlment. Are there billions of dollars just lying around for people to go further? Likely not. The greatest innovations for commercial travel were publically funded, like the Concorde and even the first jet airliners where R&D was effectively covered by government expenditures. I just can't see all of a sudden this field taking off, or even in the next 20 to 30 years. Im sure this will make some money, and people will spring for this, but not much more. The money is barely there for it. The real commercial market is in Satellites, which is already well served. This prize is barely profitable. And really, if someone wanted to go to space, rather than a brief suborbital flight, they will probably pay to get a ride on a Soyuz capsule for a REAL ride in space.

Some guy was proposing the creation of a "space hotel" We can't get a frigging space station together internationally, and doing it piecemeal with our largest lifters, and some guy believes that a "space hotel" can be constructed? Give me a break.

I don't think Anime is "looked down upon" at all, and is supported by a small group of fanatics. I never said it was widescale, but it definately has a larger following than in north america. What we get here isn't what the Japanese watch at all. Of course dordamon isn't shown or that poorly drawn one with the boy, but stuff like Lupin come to mind.

Also as I alluded to earlier, Manga sales are BOOMING, this I believe is having an effect on the market. I think there will be an implosion of the market, but not a siginficant decrease in titles. Thre will be definately more done in CG as well. It will be interesting to see how it plays out..

sn't the Eurofighter the one that looks awfully close to the F-16XL..., only they stuck 2 engines in the Eurofighter. I hate conglomerations, let the Brits build British stuff, Germans build German stuff and Italians build their thing... individually they built some stupendous planes over the years.

Yeah and they would blow the bottom out of their defence budgets. Completely unfeasable, European NEED to coalece their arms markets or their defence industrial base will completely fade away. I could write a 30 page paper on why. IT comes down to one phrase, economies of scale..

My number one peeve with the F-35 is that America can't supply them independantly. I hate the idea of being reliant on countries that may have a beef with you one day for military hardware. But as we know, America is just utterly incapable of making anything on it's own anymore... at least the Europeans are mired in the same foolish thinking with the EuroFighter...

David do you know what Augustine's 16 law is?

How is it Russia keeps producing some outstanding planes without much of an economy and without globalist conglomerations?

#2 things.. Huge amount of people who are left over from the soviet era, and Russia is the second arms exporting country in the world. Effectively Russia's R&D costs are very low compared to the US. Give it another decade and they will not be able to keep up.

Hmm I think we have to give Airbus 300 some credit. The sucess of the 300s was finding a niche market that was not forseen before. With development abd refinement of the Hub and spoke system of Airline travel (which resulted in the need for larger commuter planes), as well as the removal of the FAA''s restriction on Transatlantic flights needing two engines, the 300s (and the 310) were very well suited to capture a large market share.

Yes they did give EA a great deal but it was well worth it. It was very much like the introduction of the shopping cart in a grocery store. The first shopping carts were shunned by people, so the owner paid some people to look like buyers using the shopping carts. People then started using them. The A-300 was kinda like that, from absolutely no sales, to 133 firm orders and 26% market share by value. By the end of 1979, Airbus had 256 orders from 32 customers and 81 aircraft in service with 14 operators. Thats fairly impressive numbers from a company that didn't exist 9 years earlier.

Actually I agree with both radd and winkle. Radd I'm sure you can tell us how the market in north america has changed from classical to CG, but in Japan, Anime is a far more acceptable art form for general population. Look at the surge in manga publication over the last decade, anime feeds off of that completely. Im sure the industry is seeing some financial difficulty, but I can;t see it dying out as it did here at all. I still think classical with CG cell shaded will continue to go for quite some time as the standard.

I was reading a report out there by a reseach think tank and it predicted that the EF-2000 will be the F-16 of the future in terms of export sales. I didn't look at the research methodology or the findings, and I'll try to dig it up.

A larger project in the European mindset is the new A-400M Military transport. I'll state this now, if the European do this right, they will be sittin on top of a gold mine. The 400 is a Airbus built Transport plane, that can do many of the things that a C-17 can but at 1/2 to 2/3rds the Life cycle costs. This is a market that is completely under represented, since the US just goes with the larger C-17 and C-5 to carry out Strategic Airlift. However these planes are completely unfeasable for Smaller militaries. Ther astronomical costs associated with them make them unnatractive and on top of that are too big to be of use. In Discussions I've had with RAF personnel in Strat Air, they don't even use most of their capacity on their recently leased C-17s because they are too large.

Most Western states today operate the C-130, which is too small and has too short legs to carry out the missions that most states need them to fulfil.

In the post cold war era, Strategic lift is fast becoming a major mission profile that airforces must be able to carry out. The ability to deploy units fast to a crisis point necessitates the need for fast lift. However the C-130s can't get units there, so the A-400M is deisigned to fill the gap between the C-17 at a c-130 budget. The only other compeditor on the market is the russian An 70X, which has better performance, and will be built before the A-400M, however does not have the financial backing of all these western states.

The A-400M main problem is in itself, rather if the new European Oversight body, OCCAR (its a french acronym) can successfully oversee this project. There are a lot of questions on whether the 400 will be able to meet the deadline, and there is a lot riding on it. With the exception of the UK, most have put off purchasing a Strat lift airframe in order to purchase the A-400. If it is on time, likely every country that has a C-130 now, will buy the A-400 instead, and more orders will probably come. Like the A-300 before it the Airbus's entry into this market looks like its sure to make a big impact.

The russians used them extensively in Chechnya. They are extremely effective in clearing out cellars due to their overpressure effects. However Im not too sure how much the Russians used a air deployed version, from what I have seen they were more prone to a static version instead.

I had the same problem. Its the flat base that is used, and you and I thinned out the paint too much. Its oooh so tempting to do but I've learned my lesson. You might want to strip it and try again. I couldn't find a way around it.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...opic=3588&st=0&

Yeah its to old Avalon hill version. The guys I'm playing with are old military guys, like in their 40s and I got them to break out the old game. IT was fun to ruin 5 hours on but most of us picked apart the rules while playing. It wsa like... THERES NO WAY THAT SHIP JUST TOOK A BROADSIDE FROM 200 YARDS AND LIVED.

A friend of mine has a new ruleset to use for next time for the counters.

is line of battle board game based?

I think the two of you are wading into an old feud/debate. The person favoring the Yamato armor is George Elder; he and the combinedfleet people seem to have a longstanding disagreement, and no one is likely to sort out who is right without a great deal of research and study.

I will say this about Elder's analysis, though: he seems not to give US radar fire control its due. The experience of Washington vs. Kirishima at Guadalcanal, and later the battle of Surigao Strait, say to me that the system worked very well indeed.

Edit: This seems like an extensive debate between the two sides: http://f16.parsimony.net/forum26300/messages/9264.htm

But I don't know how helpful it really is in sorting out who is right and who is wrong. Elder is apparently a fan of the Bismarck, so he's bothered by the low rating given the Bismarck on the combinedfleet.com site. Nevertheless, the discussion might shed some light on the Yamato and Iowa armor issues.

The original argument was about armor, so I didn't talk about radar. I'll freely admit that American sets were superior. Another good example of night radar fighting was the battle of Cape Matapan with the british navy sinking three crusiser at night. I'm always wary about using internet sources because usually its not academically peer reviewed on hugely techncial issues, however Elder's anaysis seems to come from primary source material so I took it as face value. I would have perfered that he used footnotes though I'll go on monday to the defence college library to find some material.

The interesting thing about the Hood is that its plunging fire weakeness were well known to the Royal Navy and she was to be rebuilt during the interwar period, which may have saved her from her fate. Her Conning tower was to be removed and decks shored up as well as some removal of machinery. However as the flagship she never got a chance.

I've been doing a lot of research on this lately because I''ve been playing the boardgame Jutland with some military friends of mine. We did the Dogger bank scenario, and the Royal Navy triumphed this time convincingly with only the Seydlitz able to flee. I didn't like the rule set however (close in damage should do a HELL of a lot more damage IMHO).

I don;t think thats quite correct. I did some fishing on the web to back up what I was looking for and I found this.

http://members.aol.com/ghe101/ijn_yamato_vs_uss_iowa.htm

I've been trying to find out who this guy is, since he seems to be party to some excellent information. If what he says is true, Japanese armour would be actually better than their american counterparts in some cases. This shouldn't be too hard to believe.

Remember that the Japanese poured in huge amounts of their national wealth into their Navy, which was seen as the most prestigious service. They were not hampered by material shortages until the later part of the war, long after the Yamatos were built. Also Japanese battleship development did not fully stop during the interwar period as Japanese designers put out some of the best Heavy cruisers designed, such as the Mikumas. They were undoubtedly the world leaders in this field, prompting the construction of the Alaska class BCs. The Nagato was considered the best battleship of her period (1920s and 30s), superior to the Queen Elisabeth class so to say that their armour was stuck in 1800s is untrue.

Yeesh, the Missouri took a direct kamikaze hit, and it left a small dent in the most external hull layer. And presumably removed the paint from that section. Most missiles aren't going to do much better than a fully-loaded Zero at 500mph. So yeah, a lot of weapons will bounce off every square inch of an Iowa class. They'd decimate the Bismark or Yamato's superstructure, being unarmored normal steel, but with the Iowa's entire superstructure (asides from the funnels) being basically eqivalent to moderate armor, they could shrug off quite a few attacks.

I'm sorry, Im going to have to disagree on this. Unless the US's steel manufacturing was "that much" better than the Japanese , the Yamatos were far stonger ships(and there are studies that point to Japanese armor being even superior to their American counterparts). According to Janes Battleships of the 20th Century, the Yamato had a continous belt of 16.1 inches that was angled at 20 degrees. The Iowa's belt was not continous, running at 12.1 inches at its maximum. The Yamato's Conning tower was a staggering 19.7 inches and its turrets 25.6 inches. It is also said that the deck and conning tower armor was possibly 25% stronger than US class A, with the US armor worsening in performance as the shell size increases. If density is any measure, the Yamatos were 263 meters long, while the Iowas 270, and yet the Yamatos were 68,000 Tons while the Iowas were 52,000. Overall the Yamatos carried more armor, and possibly better armor as well.

I could go into armaments and speed but that wasn't the point of your post. so I'll leave it there.

the Hood blew up in her duel with the Bismarck (was it a penetrating shot through the deck, or a fire which spread from one area to the main magazine?), it appears that her commander may have been concerned about her weak deck armor and so deliberately tried to close the range quickly, even though that meant giving up nearly half his firepower (in the rear turrets of Hood and Prince of Wales) as he charged the Germans.

The Hood and many of her contemporary British Battlecruisers had major weakenss to plunging fire. The rapid evolution of Naval combat during the dreadnaught era created an oversight in british design for this type of hit, so that there was a huge hole in its Immunity zone. Plunging fire devestated three british battlecruisers during the Battle of Jutland and nearly sank a fourth. Once within flat arc trajectory the Hood 's Armor was quite strong, being a flared 12 inch belt.

Perhaps my favorite battleship, the Seydlitz (it was battlecruiser, really), managed to get home from battle in 1916 with parts of the deck underwater.

The Seydlitz was a true veteran. Fought in the Battle of Dogger bank and Jutland, the ship took a beating in both battles that most battleships wouldn't survive (she was a battle cruiser) and continued fighting.

If I had to rate my top three, the first would be the last British Battleship the Vanguard, then the Yamato, and finally the Vittorio Veneto (thats a beautiful ship)

saw it in Japan two years ago..... .pretty good flick. I completely agree with the review

It may be one of the greatest games of all time. Definately in my top 3 (Starcraft and Goldeneye are my other two)

Does anybody remember the day when you first researched the heavy plasma and got the flying suit and gave the Aliens a taste of their own medicine? Or the Psiamp?

did any of you laugh maniacally when you got your first blaster bomb?

And then the Etherials came on the scene.... and they always went for the guy with the blaster bomb and nuked your squad.