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Posts posted by Noyhauser

  1. If anything from the previews the artwork seems to be worse then the last two series. At least to me. The anime look they are trying for just doesn't look good and they really should have stuck with the previous art style.

    I'd say that HG was lucky to get an artist on the caliber of Takeshi Miyazawa to pencil their series. (Im a bit biased here, but what the hell). Personally I think he is BETTER than this series, and should be either doing his own comic book (like Sidekicks), or a major top of the line series. Remember that he only did the character frames in Robotech, not the Mecha. He just got back from several years in Japan and HG was lucky to nab him right off the bat to do this series. Here is his website... Its pretty impressive art.


  2. I was lucky.... my father is Japanese and my family in Japan sent me a constant stream of Anime taped off TV or bought from the store. My favorite tape was DYRL... along with Doraemon (hey I was 6... give me a break) and Ashita no Zyo. I couldn't understand what was going on (hell I could barely make out what they were saying half the time), but watching max kicking the crap out of Zentredis was too much. Awhile later I watched Robotech, and although I liked it (probably because I could understand it), it wasn't like DYRL. I watched the whole series, and bought the Robotech roleplaying books as well as models. I didn't really understand the difference between Robotech and DYRL until I started watching Macross II, but still that didn't make too much sense because I was 12 at the time. What really drove it home was when I was in Japan for my 14th Birthday and turned on the television to see a red valkryie... which turned out to be Macross 7, that night I bought the first Macross Plus OAV. Then I realized the difference between the two series. Since then I have never looked back. I can't wait to see how HG will try to best any of the Macross series... (if they even try to put together a movie or tv series together) I can't even imagine how they can even match the skill or bredth of Kawamori and Studio Nue.

  3. There are a lot of different things in the timeline he could still pick up on. Like the Delta Wars which have only a passing reference but could be open avanues. And I don''t think there is any explaination of these events. And rehashing designs isn't unlikely. My guess is his next series (other than the next OAV) may be another one that focuses on character development like Macross 7 and SDF rather than fighters. IF he does the 2012~2040 period there are countless places where he could place a story. He could even do a story based upon a anti UN spoiler.

  4. watch until episode 25... then make your decision. First 20 are introductory fillers, for some reason though they get trashed when other series do the same thing, like Ruruoni Kenshin, and people don't mind them.

  5. Damn you Panon... beat me to it

    Both were out of missiles and barely had any weapons, except the YF-21, since it has still had those wicked arm mounted lasers. As JBO commented, it was probably better able to take out the ghost than the YF-19... we had a whole discussion about it in this forum, and it was generally agreed that the YF-21 was a better fighter just WAAAAY too expensive... If anyone had a chance to take out the Ghost... it was Guld.

  6. Oh I agree with you Azrael, but sometimes stuff needs to be said at least. And there have been some enlightening things said. I now agree that M-7 is too long. I also think that how the main themes were presented could be better. Keith has also made me think about M-7 in different ways, and that post about 3 pages back about the music being important also was interesting. I just wanted to point out the really bad things about this thread. I too agree it should be pinned. That way it prevents the same old arguments from being rehashed from the start, like Exo pointed out in the "HG debate thread"

  7. I gave up about a page and a half back.

    #1 Nobody listens to whatever anybody has to say

    For example abombz, you are about the 6th person to say," I hate how the battles repeat", would you care to read the earlier posts that explain why it occurrs ?

    #2 People are completely inflexible in their opinions. I know Keith that macross 7 isn't that bad, but seriously it has several faults, including the fact its waaay too long. People have legitimate greviences with it but you gotta give an inch. Some people did change their views which was this posts intended affect.

    #3 other people just act completely disrespectful

    A-1 you contributed nothing to the conversation except think that Macross 7 is for sissies, and if that is the case quit watching Anime, because last I saw, watching cartoons from Japan in any case doesn't classify as something that gets into Vanity Fair as being the hottest thing in 2003. Oh and get off yourself, I think you would be suprised what kind of lives some people on here live. They are just a bit more humble than yourself, so get off yourself and discuss about the issues, if you even have something to say that is relevant other than such pointless quotes as "I love doorknobs" and "You are right! I am cool. Really cool"

    Edited to piss A-1 off and for a poorly worded sentence, Edited line is in italics

  8. I hear what you are saying Mechleader... but.

    It takes real skill to REALLY make a model, even if it is a bandai Gundam. like sure Bandai has made it uber simple to put one together... but if you really want to make it amazing, you need to paint it or mod it, and there the men get separated from the boys. Its the same with the hasegawa models. I don't use the decals for the colors because I'd rather mask out and paint it. But I'm sure that some people probably just build it and slap on the decals with only a coat of white all over it and call it done. Its pretty easy to make most high quality models (not talking about resin), like Haseg, but its the skill of the modeler to make it as lifelike as possible. The same goes for gundam kits, even though it is a bit easier to do so.

  9. 1: Seed does have some design issues, mainly with the stuff Okawara did all himself. (The first five Gundams on the show were done by Akutsu and re-done by Okawara. The last six were all Okawara.) Of course, on Mac 7's side it's mainly the Fire Valk and the MAXL that are a problem...

    Ah but you forget that there are more than 6 new designs in Macross 7 that are completely new. I think you could say for the most part it had all of its own designs. The only true predecsor you could say was the VF-11, but even the VF-19 was changed, looking nothing like the previous yf-19 and vf-19A predecessors. Most people don't think of the Vartua stuff as new but they are and they were direct decendants of the advanced valkryie series he wanted to do in the late 1980s. Macross 7 for the most part was completely its own designs. I'm pretty sure that Kawamori knew that they weren't all going to be marketable, but did it anyways because he wanted to showcase these fighters.

    Gundam sold its dignity long before Seed (Double-Zeta... though at some level everything in ZZ is just an extension of what goes on in Z and MS Gundam). Macross has had comparatively few releases - but 7 came out at the same time as Plus, which was a fantastic series. The contrast is less favorable.

    again its because Plus's emphasis was on combat and amazing visuals, while 7 was on the story and characters, which was supposed to read like visual manga

    I think one of the big problems with Macross 7 is that is runs WAY too long. Its practically 50 episodes, and how many of those are basically the same episode over and over again? There have to be about 20 filler episodes in there atleast.

    Completely agree with you here Duke... it does run way too long and could of been done with I would say 15 episodes left. The first 15 or so could be reduced to 5, and ther ecould be 5 less episodes like right before operation stargazer occurred. I think the movie when the galaxy is calling me could be included as well. Some of the fillers are amuzing though, like the E! true Story type episode I could live with.

    Yeah, but if it were good, we wouldn't be complaining.

    I mean if there had been 14 more episodes of SDF-Macross that were just filler, I can't say I would complain. We don't like the length because the show is annoying.

    Wow A-1 you actually had constructive criticism... The sense that I am getting is that a lot of the people who say they don't like it didn't get past the first 15 episodes... which you could consider fillers. REmove those and I think a lot of people actually like the series. Therefore your argument about fillers not affecting attitudes towards the series is very contestable.

    Oh and please don't make ignorant comments about things you have no idea about like who I am or what I do outside of this board. If the best you can do is post up 1990s era SNL photos about what your conception about who you think I am , it erases any respect I have of you as a person of intelligence that is worthy of discussion.

  10. I like how you left out the the most substantial part of my post, Noyhauser:
    Kawamori seemed to be at his best with DYRL and the series and movie follow up Flashback 2012. The Megaroad didn't transform becuase there wasn't any reasonable need for it to. The VF-4 is the most quirky and unique of all of the Valkyrie designs, without being fruity or silly. Like its characters, it was Macross all grown up and matured, and seemed to point the franchise in an intelligent direction completely disregarded in Macross 7.

    Why? I would guess Kawamori was under pressure from Big West to produce the most marketable version of Macross he could, and be sure to keep pounding on what will make the most money: T&A, music, and the biggest cash cow of them all, cool designs for cool toys. And, BTW, do something with all of this Macross II stuff we have laying around...

    Care to respond?

    You can argue it two ways, from a creator's standpoint or a actual design standpoint.

    You could argue that there was major failings with the First Megaroad design. The flagship of the fleet is fairly weak, and made the colony captains lives difficult to handle situations. (should I use the Megaroad in combat knowing it will tip the balance of power? THe new Macross series made sure that there was a strict separation between warfighting ships and civillian ships, so that civillian ships were separated, and that the flagship was a heavier warship.

    The second way of looking at it is through Kwamori's Eyes. Its kinda funny how macross 7 is treated, since gundam Seed is getting the same rap. The original creator of gundams is doing Gundam Seed, which has some whacked out designs for Gundams. Kinda like on here some people like them some people hate them. I think Kawamori wanted to branch out a bit and make some new designs that weren't completely based on older ones. He could use the designs from Advanced Valkrie as well, which he had never been able to include anywhere else, like the Vartua mecha and the VF-14. I thought the new Macross Battle cruiser was so-so but when I played and watched the movie from digital mission VFX-2 I was blown away... its actually a pretty sweet design. The rest of the fighters were basicaly similar to older ones, except for the sound force ones. However it wasn't like they were common fighters, rather they served the purpose of pushing spirtitia warfare. (one off)

    At this point though I think its better to drop it, I think we both give a good argument for both sides and anyobody who is going to change their minds either way will change, and those who aren't are beyond the sake of arguments from both sides.

  11. Yeah man, usually some n00b comes around and says something like "whats with M7?"  Which is an open question, and I answer it... So does The Duke.  So do others.

    Besides I find the show iritating and insulting... I won't let some n00b walk in, ask about M7, see it, then think we are all lame.  I am protecting the image of Macross fans, IE doing you all a favor.  You should love me for this.  Love me like I love myself.

    no its more tiresome juvanile behavior that classifies your response to it A-1. Maybe you are being sarchastic or trying to be witty, I don't know or care. Most Macross fans like M-7 thats a given (in Japan where the target market is). Your "protection" is not needed nor wanted. I never said Macross 7 was the best series but the reputation you give it is completely unfair and doesn't deserve it at all.

    Certainly Macross 7 has its failings. Yes it doesn't have the best animation, and its pacing is off. And the separation between the Ephemeral story and the deeper allegory is a bit wide. But it is still a good series that has a lot more to offer than at first glance (10 to 15 episodes in)Thats what I am trying to point out. Stupid mindless trashing of it however is not a failing of Kawamori or the series but the people who trash it.

  12. Its nowhere close to as deep as Macross Plus. The relationship between the main three characters is more intense than anything else in the Macross franchise, and we see how physical abuse, rage, mental illness, and loss have deeply affected their lives. The only thing close is Lynn Kaifun's drinking problem in the original SDF Macross and the loss of Roy Focker.

    Sorry that Macross 7 doesn't have overt love triangles to make it easy for you. Ray and Gamlin has PTSD, thats for sure, and that ain't cool.

    What do I get from Macross 7? Blatant and disgusting fan service, valkyries with faces (including a pink one), the overuse and abuse of some generic jrock for marketing purposes, an almost complete and utter destruction of two of the franchise's most beloved characters (Max and Milia... he cheats on me constantly, but we really still love eachother... we haven't aged, BTW, and our costumes are ridiculous), and an animation standard that at times fails to meet that of the then 15 year old original.

    Fan service... not even close to as bad as any other contemporary Japanese series. Man if you watched Chobits you would be floored. The fan servicing is probably just as bad as in the first series when you take it in context of the early 1980s.

    Would you PLEASE READ MY POSTS ABOUT WHY THE ANIMATION WAS NOT TOP NOTCH OR THE REUSE OF MUSIC. If you want to come on here and argue please read other peoples posts, not hammer away at the same stupid issues.

    And just why does the Macross 7 transform?

    One good reason- The energy it would take to move the whole ship is a lot less than having to move the arm that carries the gun, That would allow you to swivel the whole cannon assembly much faster while firing the cannon so you can sweep a greater area, rather than having to move the whole ship. If you are pissed about the Battle 7... then you should really ask yourself why you like Macross first place because it transformed... maybe because Kawamori thought it would look cool?

    Macross 7 is almomst nothing like the other Macross products, and Zero further hammers this home. The more Macross stuff Kawamori makes unlike 7, the more it stands out as the oddball in the franchise.

    Kawamori has only made two television shows, so zero doesn't prove crap. Zero and Plus are OAVs, which are a lot different to make. You have more money to concentrate on less time, in some ways that makes it easier to produce. Seeing that KAwamori wanted to make 7 at the same time as plus, even though 7 would be made at a shoestring budget and Kawamori is very conscious about how his lines are developed I think he was quite aware of what he was doing.

  13. Actually Duke since this is the first time I ever posted about macross 7 it would make it hard to make me a "usual suspect". I just posted to point out that a lot of the problems with Macross 7 are really because they are stylistic differences that Kawamori used rather than it being a piece of crap. Hearing people say "its the worst series ever" doesn't justify anything. Macross 7 was a popular television show in Japan. I wonder why is that? If people on this board don't like it, and yet it had a huge following in Japan, where is the disconnect? Its a valid point to be made.

    Kudos to Drunaa Kass because of all people here he actually stood up and said particular things that he didn't like. Each one of your argument Duke I have refuted. Replaying of songs- wrong viewing format. Mac plus a sucessor to SDF mac - also refuted. How Macross 7 is a war story? Proven. If you want to discuss, discuss what is wrong with our opinions, don't come on here and use the 1st Amendment and say that its your right to believe what you want to believe. thats just a cop out. I completely understand that people don't like it. But a lot of it as Mr March pointed out is on Perception and reputation, which Macross 7 has gotten that it doesn't deserve. I love people who go "WTF?? MONSTERS ... AW THAT SUCKS!!!" well think about SDF Macross.. "WTF 60 FOOT TALL HUMANS ?!??! COOL!".

    I personally don't think that Macross 7 is my favorite show. It was for awhile, but I like Plus a little better now. But I still think its pretty good, worthy of the Macross series and definately not worthy of the abuse that has been dished out here.

    Could basara been more flexible? maybe, but then he would lose his qualities. Anima Spiritia were made out to be something special... that were almost godlike, and only Basara and (maybe) Mylene were worthy of that title. Look at Alice whatever her name was (the other singer) her spiritia rating was waaay lower than Mylene's, and I think it was that dedication what made them great. If Basara was a flexible person then his message would not be as strong. Maybe Kawamori is trying to tell people that even if you believe in something that everybody else believes its wrong, stay the course because you will be proven right or something to that affect. Also its a contradiction as well because there are people in the military who are just as strong headed as him, and yet people love those characters... so why do you hate basara? Just because he sings rather than fights?

    Still I can completely see why Basara is maligned, and to be honest he is not my favorite character, give me Mylene any day over him.

    And yes there are issues in macross about relationships, and yes they may be deep. But the facts are, MACROSS PLUS WAS INTENDED TO FEATURE VALKS. MACROSS 7 WAS MADE FOR STORY AND CHARACTERS. Yes music plays a part but its a part in the deeper question of Pacifism and Militerism. Yes music was integral but music was a vehicle for the story. The fact that it starts off with the band first would of tipped you off. But its still a war story, that has waay more character development than Macross plus. And the war aspect of it is very important. But don't kid yourself that music and culture wasn't important in SDF either. HAd minmay not been there then there is no way that UN spacy could of won. End of story.

  14. my guess why it resurfaces is so that Agent one can get his free cheap shots in.

    If you want to contribute something go ahead agent. I'm just waiting for a reply that will actually initate some sort of brain activity.

  15. A show gets better after you watch over fifteen episodes? WTF? I hear this over and over. Please explain. Curious as to why this is commonly said.

    My Translation of the statement: "Macross 7 is not a good series, We only like it because the Macross name is attached to it and because it is part of the alledged "official" timeline."

    No because the storyline for the first 15 episodes did not have a storyline per say. They generally were formulaic and did not progress the storyline forward. Only when City 7 gets taken away does the story really start to move forward. The first 15 are nothing like the rest of the series and yes do detract from the series but that is because they were meant for a different format than how they are watched today. Take the first 15 out and then the story and pacing is excellent.

    A lot of my opinion is shaped by the fact I watched macross 7 originally on Japanese television when It first came out. I liked it at the time, although there were other series at the time that peaked my interest. I still have the tapes of the episodes from after Valgo's death to stargazer floating around somewhere (directly off Japanese television)

  16. Eh? Where did I say everyone dies?

    Uhh yeah... crud.

    My really big bad, I guess I glanced over it and immediately assumed.

    One other thing though. I think Basara is probably the only one who hasn't changed (and I could put an argument forward that he has somewhat) I think Mylene grows up alot in the series as well. At the start she was a whiny little brat, but by the end she really starts caring about her music and others as well. her birthday party right before Stargazer kinda shows how much she has matured, in the sense that she realizes life isn't all pretty and nice. I think episode 26 when she helps Gamlin patrol the city also shows how she is starting to buy into basara's beliefs, and when they try the capture operation you see how dedicated she is to the music and the beliefs. Ray changes as well, as I think he overcomes some of the problems he has before.

  17. I'm really sorry that I have to do this but I am stuck. I just flew home from the holidays and I brought along the YF-19 model I bought to build. I must of forgotten to put back the instruction booklet because when I arrived I had the model but no instructions. I'd like to complete it over the next few weeks, but without the instructions I'm sure I won't be able to get all the stuff right, especially with the painting scheme or the details in the cocpit, so I will have to wait till I go back to school. If it wouldn't be too much trouble, could someone please scan me the book? I'd really appreciate it

  18. Macross plus was all about the Mecha... even Kawamori said this, and that was what It was intended for. An OAV that outspent more than any before it is not going to focus on "character development". And trying to say that a 2 hour movie has more character development than a 20 hour TV series that does have character development is bordering on ridiculous. Although there was some in plus, expecially with Guld, thats it. Really the relationship was a plot made so that Kawamori could bang around big mecha and spend lots of money. EVEN HE SAYS IT. Macross Zero is very similar. Macross seven and SDF macross try to emphasize how there are things stronger than war, such as love and emotions. The zentredi were not beaten by superior weapons, they were defeated by culture, the same as in Macross 7. Neither plus or Zero even try to do something like that, and essentially use weapons to determine the winner.

    Both Plus and Zero are far more faithful to the original series in my opinion. The relationships come first above all else. Macross 7 is almost solely about the music

    Macross 7 was a war drama, I don't see how you could say otherwise. Look at Gamlin. He is a square military guy at the outset. He watches Physica and Lt. Kinryu die and probably is suffering from depression, and then he meets Basara and mylene. He doesn't understand music but slowly he does. Ray used to be in the military and is now haunted by what war did to him and his friends. The TV show really emphasizes why war is bad. Macross television show emphasized the love triangle and cool mecha which had never been seen before.

    You compare all that to the original where hardly anyone was the same in the end as they were in the beggining.

    Uhh maybe you have been watching Robotech, in macross only two people die, Roy and Kazikazi... thats it. eveybody else survives, the love triange, max/mil, Bridge crew, Good zentredis. ect ect.

    7 is the only one that has music by itself as the end all be all solution to every problem.

    Sure Basara doesn't have much character development, but thats the point, its because he believes sooo much in his music and the effect it can have. This was the overriding theme in the story. Music was important because what I said above, its a question of pacifism vs militarism. Kawamori is really putting pacifism as the right way to go. Having Basara being a pacifist without using music or anything else would just make the television show stupid. So he does it with music. I think the Kawamori made a television show that was WAAAAAAY more deep than any gundam or most shows out there.

    You can't go two minutes in the series without being beaten over the head with another song, which at that point you are probably hearing for the 100th time.

    AGAIN ITS BECAUSE YOU ARE WATCHING EPISODES BACK TO BACK that were intedended to be watched week after week. Macross 7 was made on a shoestring budget compared to plus and yes it uses repeats. Man if they thought that it was going to be watched consecutively do you think they would repeat every song on every episode? Do you think that Kawamori who had just made macross plus would be that stupid? Sheesh think about it for a second.

    Sigh I don't know even why I post if people aren't going to read it in discussion.

  19. I think someone pointed out that Basara never played his guitar in a fighter until Dynamite 7. So really the controllers are there for flash. Which is fine by me. I think the Gundam esque mecha was more for psychological reasons than anything else. Look at how bad the Jamming Birds worked... because they were pretty well packaged up milterized versions of Sound force. Kawamori wanted to emphasize how you can't manufacture the effect of the true feelings that Sound Force had.

  20. Its funny because Macross 7 went over pretty well in Japan. I think its because it was designed to focus on the characters rather than the Mecha( thats what Macross Plus was for) and this doesn't go over well with people who don't like much of wider Japanese anime. I'll qualify that because that is a generalization, but for the most part it does hold true. Macross 7 is a manga series however you cut it, which for the most part focuses on people, not mecha. Look at the longest running Manga strip, its are about police officers and their lives and not about big bad mechas blowing things up. It doesn't have great animation because you can't have good character development over 4 supurbly animated 30 minute OAVs, but you can over a 40 episode season with eh level animation. The reason why there is footage and music repeats because it was assumed that viewers don't remember exactly what happend a week ago, and would like to hear Tosugeki Love heart again because its a catchy track. It also cuts down on the cost as well because series animes are expensive to make and Kawamori blew the budget on Plus.

    I would hazard a guess that most people haven't watched one of the more popular japanese television series because most of them aren't brought to North America. They focus on character development, not wicked special effects or cool animation that would make it an easy sell in our markets. Its the same difference between television series in England and North America. What are the most popular british television series... Eastenders; its about lower middle class people living their lives in england. Would a show like that make it over in North America? hell no. The same thing happens with macross 7. You can say its terrible series but most japanese would disagree with you.

    Also the plot isn't that bad. Alot of the show focuses on Pacifism versus militarism, which isn't a terribly big thing in the US but it is VERY relevant to Japanese culture. There are huge battles going on today on should Japan continue to maintain a pacifist policy or should it rearm the JSDF. The whole storyline is about that. Basara believes there is another way to settle the differences rather than fighting and his beliefs save macross 7 fleet. He wins over Gamlin, about episode 27, who figures out that figting isn't the only way to solve things. Thats what Kawamori was getting at. I personally like the music (I have a MD with only macross 7 tracks, and I still have "My Friends" on my playlist), but I was raised up with Japanese culture, so thats probably why. Macross is probably most people's first foray into Japanese pop, and they hate it. Great it isn't nirvana and it doesn't pretend to be. You don't like it, fine, but other people do.

    I'll give that the first 15+ episodes were not that great but thats because most of you are watching it consecutively as it wasn't inteded to be watched. Man if I watched 20 episodes of a syndicated television show consecutively I'd hate it too. Most people watched an episode week after week. So the first 3 months of it was to get people accustomed to the show. You think that sucked? Well watch Ruruoni Kenshin which is considered one of the best japanese series that was produced right at the same time. First 20 episodes of the Tokyo Arc is fillers and repeat just like Macross. then Comes the Kyoto arc which closely follow the manga, and is reaaaaaaally good, just like how Macross 7 resolves itself.

    I really think that most of the criticism laid at Macross 7 isn't fair, and I really wish people would just #$@# up about it. great you don't like it but saying its the most terrible Macross series isn't fair. I really disliked the person who put up the poll last week about your favorite series and left out Mac7. It had a lot of interesting parts to it and just because "the animation sucked" or "basara was an idiot" doesn't justify anything in my mind. It was never designed to be like Macross plus, and if it was made in 1981 people would probably say that it was better than the original macross. Just because SDF Macross was the first doesn't make it a sacred cow. For a Japanese series its fairly good, its not the greatest but still good.

    And the BDI/BCS system is not far fetched at all... We can already hook up electrodes to monkeys and have them move robotic arms. Add in Overtechnology with powerful sensing systems and miniturized computers and the system is very believable.


    Edited for grammer and reading flow and a few more points... sorry

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