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Posts posted by Noyhauser

  1. Ah, I was looking at the 19A vs the VF22, I neglected to notice the S version. My extreme apologies on that. the 19S also has more verniers, so true the 19S does have more capability in space like the VF-17, however...

    I'd say the 19S's atmospheric capability would be as exceptional as a flying brick. It's wings are fixed, thick, small and with limited control surfaces. I think it's canards are removed as well (not sure about that one). Its sold itself out to max out its capabilities in one area. It definately drags more, and has less control than the 22 in an atmosphere. For an all environ fighter, I'd still chose the VF-22.

  2. oy....the YF-19 could sweep it's wings back as well, somebody captured a pic of both planes in their High Speed configuration a couple months back from Plus ep 4.

    as for #4: the YF-19 had the active stealth, but you just never saw them use it in Plus.

    Okay the YF-19 had overswept wings, but I'd still take the YF-21's configuration any day. Overswept means that you have NO flight control area because they are now blended into the body. you are relying on thrust alone to get the job done. Its a zero sum system with the 19, either reverse sweep and no control at all or slower with enough control. Isamu probably couldn't pull off the manuver that guld did against the high manuverability missiles because to get to the speed he needed to trick the fuses on the missiles he would not have the control to evade them (he would need to sweep the wings back). The 21 still has its rear horizontal stabilizers (I can't rememer the term they use for them, blended tail/horizontal stabilizers) , and its shockwave mission adaptive wing assembly to control flight AS well as a far superior system of thrust vectoring (three paddles directing thrust 2 dimentionally vs a one dimention horizontal/vertical system that the 19 has) .

    The YF-19 did not have Active stealth, as the YF-21 first introduced such a system, which was later retrofitted into the 19 program. Look at the Macross compendium entry for the YF-19 and VF-19, the the YF clearly does not carry such a system as it followed a completely different design philosophy (fast and manuverable.)

  3. The 22 doesn't have morphing wings? You can clearly see in the animation that Max's VF-22S' wings are normal AND go into the "high-speed" configuration that Guld used to both drift with engines off and then later ram the Ghost...

    Now the "flexing" the Guld did on pre-flight could have been something linked to the BCS/BDI... but there's definately SOME variable geometry there... gonna have to check the Compendium...

    Morphing is the Mission Adaptive wing technology (that is the technical term for it in engineering) that I spoke about at great length in my previous post. It was not intendend for widespread production. It is not related to the shockwave riding folding of the wings that the 21 and the XB-70 use. More or less the 21 and the XB-70 ride the expanding shockwave that their own airframe creates and redirects it rearword to provide additional force forward. The XB-70 rode off of the shockwave emited from its engine nacelle while theoretically the 21 would probably ride the shockwave from its oddly shaped nose. You would need to see a windtunnel test of a 21 to see how the disruption of air occurrs to see how the wing cant would exploit that. The 21 was also designed to go at waay faster speeds than the XB70, so its difficult to assess how it would work.

    It is possible for the computer to control mission adaptive wings without user input, based on calculations derived from what kind of enviroment the fighter is under (rather than needing BDI/BCS to control it). If the fighter was at low speed and wasn't accelerating then the computer would probably extend the wing to as long as possible with as little sweep as well. These things could be easily programmed into a computer much like automatic transmissions on the car are done (but at a waaaay more complex level). The problem is in the wings themselves. For a metal to be flexible and able to resist the heat of reentry would be ASTRONOMICALLY expensive, and waay beyond our level of technology (overtechnology). Thats why only the YF-21 has it.

  4. Guld was straining, because no fighter would be designed to take the tolerances that he put his fighter under, (if the X9 and the YF21 blew up from it I'd bet you that the 19 would of blown up as well.) The later versions of the VF-19 probably could beat the YF-21, (especially the VF-19A which its geometry wings fold back, which the YF-19 could not do), but the VF-22 utilizes a engine that puts nearly 10,000 pounds more thrust than the VF-19, so it would probably be the fastest of them all.

    I'd say the 19 was chosen over the 21 for five reasons.

    #1 the 21 was way too expensive. the 19 was able to keep up to it for a far cheaper price. It may not of been superior but it "could" depending on the situation, beat a 21... barely. Although the 21 had all the bells and whistles, the little advantages it did givve wasn't worth the cost.

    #2 The 21 most likely was a hanger queen. Unconventional avionics, bleeding edge tehcnologies, and insane armaments would of made the thing prohibitivly expensive and so maintence prone that it would cost even more to keep the fighter operational. Look how much calibration the BDI/BCS took for one pilot... think how long it would take for a squadron. the time in the shop is valuable time that would be utilized to keep other fighters flying.

    #3 Unproven technology. Certainly there were problems with the 21. BCS/BDI being the main one, but Mission adaptive wings were cause for concern. It would be even more difficult to keep in the air because it had no previous lineage. I'd bet the 19 could cannibalize some parts from previous shinsei aircraft, but the 21 would require unique parts to keep it flying. If you are a special forces group deep in enemy territory, this could be the difference between life and death.

    #4 Many of the uber technologies the 21 employed could be retrofitted into the VF-19. Active stealth was the main one. That way the advantage of the 21 would not be so great.

    #5 Because the 19 was a more conventional design, it's ability to be modified increased as well. Similar to the previous reason, it just meant that the future of the 19 would be long because you could use the airframe in a lot of other roles. Within five years they had unveiled the S version for space that removed the variable wings and put a hell of a lot more verniers on it. I'd say that you would not see Basara flying a red VF-21 Kai if it won supernova because the Airframe could not be redesigned to accommodate the major changes needed. Look how much stuff they were able to put into the VF22 when the stripped out all the extra stuff like BDI/BCS. Larger engines (nearly 20% more thrust) and they managed to fit in not one but two mini ICBMs.

    I'd say that Whiskey's suggestion about the 22 taking over special forces roles would be the most appropriate.

  5. I don't know for sure that the 19 is better in an atmosphere, given the ability of the 21 to utilize Mission adaptive wings. Mission adaptive wings only are useful in an atmosphere, and capability wise they are far more useful than variable geometry wings (especially given that the 21's wings can shape themselves much like variable geometry as well as in the )

    I wouldn't fall into the trap of saying that because the lasers on a fighter are labeled a higher number than another model means that they are necessarily stronger. Its possible that they are made for completely different specifications (head lasers are better for burning and cutting stuff and inteded less as a combat weapon, rather than the weapons in the arms of the 21 and the 17). The wing weapons of the 19 are made to fit a lot smaller space than the 21's weapons, so its likely they are not as powerful.

    Also the difference between the engines is neglible, 41,000 vs 42000, its not going to do much affect the speed of each figher. its really up to aerodynamics to see who is faster.

  6. Not true. If that was the case then the YF-21 would not be considered a fighter for Project supernova, since it was intended as a replacement for the VF-11. That means it would have to be in general distribution, to all unites. If half (or most) of your pilots can't fly it then its not going to be your main fighter is it? According to the movie it was a "neurochemical imbalance" due to Guld's Zentradi/Human heritage that caused him to slam Isamu's plane.

    And even if the system caused problems, it could be solved by rotating units in and out more frequently. This is normal operating procedure in any airforces, even under the most dire circumstances. The RAF during the Battle Of Britain rotated their squadrons in and out of active sectors to back water areas like Scotland to give their pilots a rest. Stress related problems cropped up if pilots were sent into combat too much, so they continually rotated pilots.

    The X-9 certainly can grease squadrons of Drone Qf-11s or even regular VF-11s, but who couldn't? Vartua did it on a daily basis against the MAcross 7 fleet. VF-11 really is a evolutionary decendant of the VF-1, so much so that it doesn't even change its weapon load (no standard installed missiles) or majorly increases the technology (it transforms the same, and its layout is the same). It just increases the engine size, and changes the fighter's shape. The Yf-19 is a weak decendent of the VF-4 but it is a completely original fighter incorporating new ideas, and the 21 was completely revolutionary, except that you could argue that the Quedenn Rau provided a some lineage. Just as a comparison, look how easily the 21 walked through the Hi Manu missiles, and how much effort it to isamu to dodge just a half dozen of them missiles. Or the Macross 7 series where the elgrazones were decimating Vf-11 squadrons but were easy meat for VF-17,19,22 specialist squadrons. I'd say that a X9 would always be on a losing end when confronted by squadron of Advanced valkryries

    (edited for the word squadron in the last line andweak in the YF-19 geneology reference)

  7. The ghost drone had a huge advantage over the 21 and the 19 in the show, it pretty well got to fight a worn down Guld and isamu after they went toe to toe at each other for about half an hour. By that time it would have been easy to pick off either fighter with a VF-1 and a peashooter. More or less both fighters were running off of their spare weapons, like lasers and gunpods and had no major weapons (like missiles), which would of made the fight a lot more equal. Given a fully armed VF-19 or 21/22 I’d say the X-9 would be in a lot more trouble. You could just overload the ghost by launching a lot of missiles then filling up the rest of the area with hot lead.

    The problems with BCS/BDI was probably due to Guld’s Zentradi,human structure, which the system was not calibrated for. (or so it seems from the movies).

  8. I’m going to put my lot in for the YF-21. But the YF-21 is a technology demonstrator, and a lot of its components would not be seen in mass production. I think the capability that really gives the 21 its edge in fighter mode other than the BCI/BDS is “mission adaptive wings” (MAW) that we see Guld test out in the first episode (when the wing effectively morphs its size). No plane in the world today has MAWs (there are some Nasa testing stuff since the 1980s but its way too expensive to build into a plane), and the ability for the YF21 to utilize blows the variable geometry wings the 19 uses out of the water. If the 21 needs more lift, it can fatten its wing, or slim it for extra speed. It can also make the best shape for maneuvering. (there is far more it can do, but its a long explaination and very technical... so I'll save you the engineering jargon) Also I’d say the 21 is faster because it’s wings can ride a shockwave in its high speed mode, like the XB-70 Valkryie program in the late 1960s. The aerodynamics of the YF-19 and VF-19A is limited to a variable geometry system while the 21 can adapt its wings exactly to the maximum effectiveness to any situation that it encounters.

    Secondly the BCS/BDI is a far more efficient system to control a fighter. It knocks off a second or two off of human reaction time that we take by sending information from our brain to our hands to control the fighter by taking information straight from the brain. Also it’s a lot more effective at giving a pilot situational awareness. Even with the 3D cockpits that are introduced in the 19, there is still a blind spot behind and below the pilot, while the 21 doesn’t have that. The BCS also allows Guld to control FAR more aspects of the 21 than the 19 ever could with conventional controls. We see him control the thrust vectoring system and the MAW with his hands and feet. HE can query the computer or kill the limiter by just a thought. Even if 19 had voice recognition software, it would take him several seconds to do it verbally. The anti-UN even acknowledges this and designs the Pheyos valkryie with a BDI/BCS system.

    On the matter of a limiter, I’m not too sure what that means. Does it mean that the 19 cannot do some things that the 21 can? Maybe the 19 has a limiter as well. The inertia vector system probably gives the 21 equal or better handling than the 19, and blow off limbs just add to the unit’s survivability. Furthermore, the 21 has two gunpods AND two large scale lasers in its arms. That surely beats 19’s reloadable gunpod and head lasers. But the 21 doesn’t carry 2 hi maneuverability missiles like the 19 does. (very very cool)

    But overall, the 21 is a technology demonstrator. Its very best piece of equipment that General Galaxy could put together, and probably not intended for mass production. Its doubtful that a mass-produced version (either a VF-21 or 22) would have all the bells and whistles that the Yf-21 had.

  9. I agree, the best by far was Studio half eye's YF-19. Your probably looking at $200+ USD though. I think the 19 translates better into a transformable mecha than most other valkries just by its shape. ( I think the vf 17 might give it a run for its money. )

  10. The model is so impressive it has moved me to repaint my YF-21. I didn't do a great job on it the first time and I was midway in painting it anyways (no decals yet), so I bought a big bottle of isopropanol and started removing paint. Hopefully I won't damage the details too much. Ive got a question though. Would you say its possible to do as nice job Without a Air brush??. I'm at school right now and used to use my friends air brush to do my models. I never used it on the aircraft models because I used to do 1/35 scale tanks which needed an airbrush...

    Thanks in advance


  11. Probably the best variable model I have ever seen is the Studio Half Eye Vf-19 "perfect transformation" kit. A friend of mine bit the bullet on its price and bought one ($250 CND), which he never regretted. He said it was a extremely difficult kit but the results he got out of it were a step short of amazing. The worst mode for distortion was fighter, the air intakes which were the hips in battroird seemed a bit big there, but it more than made up for it in battroid and gerwalk.

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