Whamhammer

While I agree with the overall sentiment that Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles's faults largely had nothing to do with the absence of Macross characters, I do think it bears mentioning that the presence of one Macross Saga character (Rick Hunter) was one of the movie's main selling points, and figured prominently in the pre-release hype.

The best they've done for original mechanical designs are some robotic equivalents of well-known animals (saber-toothed tigers) and minor variations on established designs (like the "Super Shadow Fighter" and "Synchro Beta").

The minor vehicle variations make perfect sence, the SC is set during and shortly after the last episode. To intro' something radically new immediately would be like using F-86's in "Pearl Harbor" or "Saving Private Ryan". Or to have "Oddball" command an M-60 "Patton" or M-1 "Abrahms" in "Kellys Heroes".

That's really just HG's problem for insisting to be redundant these days. It's also WB's for believing this could be profitable even if they have to build everything from the ground up.

YES!!!! THATS WHAT IM SAYING!!!!!!!!!! H.G. spend some money get better writers and planning staff!!!!!!!!

But this is what people in this thread are saying they WOULD LIKE to see happen...a Robotech unburdened by the past. My feeling is then it would cease to be Robotech, and the reason to put the name on it is for sales value. But the sales value in the name is negligible...so why bother?

Maybe I really AM having trouble communicating tonight...

You can have Robotech and not have Rick and Lisa. You can have Robotech without the Valk' ,the Super Dimensional Battlefortress One, or the Destroids.

...except for the fact that it sounds dated and lame?

So if H.G. had made Shadow Chronicles "Earth Expeditionary Force :The Shadow Chronicles" , would it have been less dated and lame for you?

I don't really want to get all itemized, because, to be honest, I was confused by your first response, and I was confused by this one.

I *think* my original post was clear (and I read it again to make sure), so all of this "Why didn't you say so in the first place"...well, I did say so in the first place.

And I'm curious as to why you thought I would be leaning towards saying Macross is a household name. Because i can't find any place that hints at that.

So, either my communication skills are worse than I thought, or your reading comprehension is. I'm honestly not sure which it is.

Let me say this to be clear, I'm not here to insult you or the others here, nor do I believe thats the intention of anyone else. I am here to discuss. How about this, If you need me to narrow something down , askme. If I need you (or anyone else) to narrow something down, I'll ask. I , myself, try to look at these posts in an essay form. I also try to take into account that we all arent professional writers (which I am not, although I played one on t.v. ).

Honestly, I wasnt sure that you were attesting that Macross was a household name, but your arguements make it sound like it does.

1) In the sum of a few sentences you mention twice of H.G.'s failure of to make Robotech into a household name and then followed up and proclaimed the "SENSATION" and success that is Macross Frontier.

2)You also suggested that Robotech (H.G.'s) of using Frontier to prop themselves up for thier own gain.

That gave me the impression that you were implying that Robotech , which was not a household name (as you indicated twice) was using Macross (Frontier) (a "SENSATION' and a success) to move themselves forward. One can argue that someone would only want to use success to of others to move themselves forward and a good measure of success is if it is a household name. If Macross(Frontier) is a "SENSATION" (a great success) and H.G. is going to use it to forward thier product (as you suggested) that could lead someone to suggesting that you were suggesting that Macross is a household name. Does this help you understand where I see that?

So poor Mark Hamil was the only freelancer involved with the project?

This is worse than when he did that time travel movie...

Pete

Poor guy, it seems that he only had a face only Lucas could love. Never figured why didnt manage to break out of that. Only movie I remember seeing him in (post Star Wars trilogy) was "Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back".

and how to get my the gif (in my picture) to work

Did you not say that if they got away from Macross characters, then it would be better? Well, they DID get away from Macross characters (all except one) and it still sucked. So it seems to me that by saying SC's failure had nothing to do with Macross characters is arguing for my beliefs...so of course, I agree with you here.

No, I said that they should move away from Macross characters AND put a great deal of effort on making characters that are compelling and a story that is thought through and shows attention to detail as well looking like they had a plan for a continuation. Now, does that make sence to you?

I don't believe I suggested that you brought up Frontier. I brought it up, because I think it's in HG's interest to keep the confusion level between Macross and Robotech high, so they can leech off of the success of any new Macross series.

As I said, though, I may be wrong about that. I'm not sure.

So why not just say that in the first place? That you dont belive that they would do it the way I suggest because you think they just want to block Macross stuff? I know the direction youre moving with , I've already said my peice on future products moving away from Macross and into the 2040's (new gen) realm. So would you agree that your comment had little do with what I was talking about?

When it comes down to it, I'm the kind of Robotech fan that you could even consider to be "on your side" when it comes down to it. Sucess or failure, I want them to NOT use your Macross product and to stand on thier own in thier new endeavors. I've said that H.G. hasnt done the best job with the product and needs to do better, they need to treat their customer base better. Heck thats pretty similar to what some of you guys have been saying for a while too.

Did I say that Macross is a household name? If I did, I was wrong.

You didnt come out and say it, but it sure sounded like you were leaning that direction.

So...you yourself state that most people don't recognize Robotech by name or by footage. So why is the name valuable? If they come up with something entirely new and unconnected to the original series, why saddle it with a dated, lame-sounding name that most people will not remember? Why not just forget about Robotech, "the little series that couldn't," and move on to something entirely new?

There really seems to be alot going on between the lines on this one here, but I have a simple answer for you. Youre not going to sell me on your point. A future Robotech product should have the Robotech name. A future Macross product should have the Macross name. Next...

@Whamhammer

Do you know what it really takes to get everything you described? Money. This is a business.

You have to spend some money to make more money. Most of the time you even get what you paid for.

SuperHobo,

Here are a couple of things you might note when handling your new Legioss (culled from a Mospeada Super-Thread past). Hope it helps!

Ray's Advice

My Advice.

Only advice I need is to get the spare part

@Warhammer

It did start out as three shows edited together and then given the name Robotech. It's core revolves around elements from all three shows, with at least 1-2 of them now barred to them. What kind of elements can they bring over to another chapter to give that Robotech "feel" without being legally called out for anything? Like I said before, there's the risk that they can call whatever they make Robotech, but it could be missing something.

I will again go back to what I have been saying all along, Im copying this from a previous responce of mine;

"Second, Shadow Chronicles problem was due to poor planning and script/ character development, they didnt work hard enough to make a script that made the characters more likeable and compelling. They havent worked hard enough to plan to have a follow up to move the storyline forward since Shadow Chronicles. If the story is good and characters compelling people tend to aproove of the product no matter how far away Macross would be from it."

I dont know how to say it more plain than I have. Heck , half of you guys have even said it about Shadow Chronicles, they seem to have the wrong guys working on it and they didnt try to hard to make it the product that a more well planned organization would've. Theres no reason that Shadow Chronicles couldve been better even in the form it was, more attention to detail (Symphony of Light vs. Shadow Chronicles inconsistancies for one) wouldve been a good start, better character depth (even with the characters they had), a follow up project that had been worked it tandem with Shadow Chronicles wouldve been good too, if they make it an solid effort! Lack of attention to detail is where you run into a product "missing something", thats where you run into that risk.

I dunno...a lot of people have been throwing around the idea of Robotech getting away from its roots in Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada. My problem with that idea is...well, if they did that, wouldn't it just be something new that merely had the Robotech NAME attached to it? "This has nothing to do with Robotech, but we're calling it Robotech so you'll think it does," in other words.

And it's not like Robotech is a household name that will bring in droves of people. Why not just make something new, CALL it something new, and forget about Robotech entirely?

HG has had twenty-five years in which to turn Robotech into a household name. The original series aired on many, many TV stations around the world, and gathered a lot of fans at that time...most of whom have abandoned it.

And sure, every once in a whle, on an anime forum, you'll see someone saying, "I just watched Robotech for the first time! I just finished the Macross Saga, and it was awesome! Can't wait to start the Masters!"

And then they usually come back disappointed, and start asking what the deal is with this "Macross Frontier" they've been hearing so much about.

In fact, I'll go further: Whatever you think of it, there's no denying that Macross F has been a SENSATION, and I think a lot of people hear vaguely about some association with some show named Robotech...and Robotech DVDs are cheap and easy to come by, so they pick it up thinking it's a good introduction (I of course don't know for sure this is true, it's just my theory, based on the fact that I've seen MANY more people posting about picking up Robotech in late 2008/early 2009 than I have at any time before. Feel free to disagree if you wish). If that's the case, then all the Robotech fans who say that Macross wouldn't be popular in the west if it weren't for Robotech now should turn around and admit that Robotech wouldn't be picking up new fans if it weren't for Macross. Which makes HG no better than, say, The Asylum (purveyors of such fine entertainment as "Snakes on a Train," "Transmorphers," "The Day the Earth Stopped," and "Sunday School Musical") in piggy-backing off of a more successful series.

Maybe my assessment is going too far...? I'm not sure.

My first question is this. When did I bring in Macross Frontier (good or bad) or anything else in that post? I was talking about Robotech walking as far away as it can from "Macross" and instead going along with the 2040 timeline (New Gen./Mospeada influence), which of all people I would believe you would want . Do you personally want more "Macross" in Robotech? I'm talking about future Robotech products NOT future or recent Macross (post 1985) venutres. I have no interest in Robotech moving forward the "Macross" the timeline/storyline. Robotech needs to go in its own direction and succeed or fail on its future releases.

Second, Shadow Chronicles problem was due to poor planning and script/ character development, they didnt work hard enough to make a script that made the characters more likeable and compelling. They havent worked hard enough to plan to have a follow up to move the storyline forward since Shadow Chronicles. If the story is good and characters compelling people tend to approove of the product no matter how far away Macross would be from it.

Third , I have YET to attest to Robotech being such a superior "household" name, it isnt. I wouldnt even say Macross is a household name. I know many people who dont recognize Robotech NOR Macross with the name or footage. Star Wars, Star Trek, Transformers, G.I. Joe and Harry Potter are household names, just about everyone has been exposed to these products. Anime products are becoming more mainstream but are far from becoming "household names" . I would be foolish to even assert that, thus my assertion that Robotech's (or any other products) fan base is key in promoting its product (and that H.G. owes it to them to make a better product than they have done recently).

Finally, the assertion that future H.G. Robotech projects should not have the Robotech name with it is ridiculous, just as much as it would be to suggest the Macross franchise do the same or you in future job interviews to go under an assumed name.

Shadow Chronicles had next-to-no Macross characters in it, and it STILL sucked wet farts out of dead pigeons.

Believe or not, the reason why it "sucked" has nothing to Macross characters or the lack thereof. It had to do with not puting the right effort in the script and character development, it had to do with poor planning and the assumption that H.G. presented that the new products mere prescense was enough. Showing up isnt good enough anymore. Does this make sence to you? Can we agree on this?

QUOTE (Whamhammer @ Sep 13 2009, 05:06 PM)

Ive been saying it for a while, for Robotech to move on and use characters that arent in the "Macross" saga. If H.G. was to put the right staff in that would work on making a plot with non "Macross" characters, it would be fine. But, I dont see H.G. comming up with that notion, but you never know life is full of surprises.

There's a problem with that... every poll they've conducted has shown that the overwhelming majority of Robotech fans name the Macross Saga as their favorite part of Robotech. Only a tiny percentage of the fanbase actually cares about the Robotech Masters saga or the New Generation, so they're catering to their largest group of fans they have by keeping around the tired, worn-out, lifeless remains of the Macross Saga characters."

I understand the poll results, if Chevy was to poll customers if they would like Camaro powered with a dual qual fed 427 ci engine making 500 hp , a 426 hp f.i. 362 ci or a 300 hp v6 which one will they they pick? Which one cant they give due to regualtions? Polls be damned, I dont believe that "Macross" characters are in thier future, be it potential legal battles or otherwise, you cant have that franchise live in a twenty year period when its shown to have more than that available. What they need to do is work on "selling" the customers that the franchise can move forward without a "Macross" orientated character base for future projects, this is something they honestly havent wholeheartedly tried. If they were to work harder and develop better character development for what they have in S.C., work harder to make Maia and Marcus more genuine characters with better depth. They Honestly dont need another 90 minute movie , they need a series be it 13 or 26 episodes, build more plot, introduce better chracters, give a succession of consistand product to look forward to and follow. releasing 90 minute films every four years or so wont keep the franchise going anywhere but do its demise. If they make it interesting enough, the fan base will come in line, and new fans will come in too.

H.G.'s current and biggest problem (in my opinion) is keeping and generating confidence in the fan base. Thier fan base is thier biggest asset and thier most potent marketing tool, if they cant keep them excited, their fan base wont be the advocates sellng thier product to new customers. Well all know anime in the U.S. is affected by fans bringing new fans into the product. This is H.G.'s problem they need to overcome.

Was it user error or lousy QC?

A little of both, I was trying to bring the nose land gear out for the first time and mu pinky slipped and I put pressure on the strake at the pivto point.

Dagg nabbitt!!! Broke the right hand strake (pre-intake part) for my Shadow Alpha!!!! Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggh!!!!

The more Rick and Lisa there is in Robotech, the more diluted the characters become, and the less enduring their legacy."

Ive been saying it for a while, for Robotech to move on and use characters that arent in the "Macross" saga. If H.G. was to put the right staff in that would work on making a plot with non "Macross" characters, it would be fine. But, I dont see H.G. comming up with that notion, but you never know life is full of surprises.

Mercedes-Benz has released photos of their successor to the SLR McLaren. The SLS AMG is powered by a naturally-aspirated 6.3 liter V8 that generates 571 bhp and 479 lb-ft torque. Acceleration from 0-60 is 3.8 seconds and its top speed is 197 mph. Estimated price is €177,310 (approx $258,620), but expect it to go for more when it hits showrooms.

That price is a real shame, last I heard, no one bought the SLR McLarens becuase the price was so high that the buyer could buy a true exotic brand for not much more (Ferrari, Lambo, etc.) instead of a Mercedes. I'd like to see that model do well and bring a gullwing revolution. But hey, its only money.......

2010 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG

I was talking about a using a custom Marauder where you replace the GM Whirlwind cannon mounted on the top with a PPC (I know it's hell on the heat, but well worth the effort); half the fun of Battletech is taking the stock model Battlemech and customizing the hell out of it, all the while trying to keep within the weight limit.

Some of my fav's is the Penetrator described on of the the books that was all clan tech ( two ER-Larges and six Medium Pulse lasers) , hated the stock one but loved that. I made an IS Warhammer with two ER PPC's and six standard mediums which was such a brick. I also made an Omni-mech construction for the Battlemaster called the "Omnimaster" and one variant sported an LB20X . Im going to have to put the software on my comp again. I gotta find a B-tech group where I live!!!

I was talking about a using a custom Marauder where you replace the GM Whirlwind cannon mounted on the top with a PPC (I know it's hell on the heat, but well worth the effort); half the fun of Battletech is taking the stock model Battlemech and customizing the hell out of it, all the while trying to keep within the weight limit.

Im not sure how readily available it still is , but the program "Heavy Metal" will do all the work for you in making new designs and printing mech sheets for them (it was the official software at one point, not sure it still is) , you can even give new weapons and equipment for it to use and assing values for it, and it did have mech updates for it as well. Its good stuff.

Maybe but I've got a full Wolf's Dragoon Zeta Company (pre Misery) and apart from the single mech types it has 4 Annihilator, 7 Stalker, 5 Atlas, 4 Awesome, 3 Marauder II, 4 Imp & 3 Shogun mechs plus all up I have 614 IS mechs and 332 Clan mechs. There are a heap of multiple mech types in that lot.

There are going to be people like yourself and I that have large collections. I have 23 real original Warhammers stored away as well as other multiples. But if you look at these auctions, you can pretty much tell they are suspisious and most likely not "factory" but homespun duplicates.

Can you really make a profit from all the effort put into homemade cast miniatures on ebay?

I imagine so, people do it. I dont remember how much the cost of materials are, but they sell them for more than the price of a "factory" mech would run and it has a lower melting point than "Ralidium" (what Ral Partha called their non-lead metal they used in production), you could use lead from old fishing weights or tire weights for free if you go to the right places. Lets say Im selling a midlands quality painted home spun "Warhammer" online for $15.00 + 5.00 shipped local ConUS (which I did see this) if I remember right Warhammers retailed for 6.50-7.00 bux-ish before they stopped being produced. They are essentially selling it as 15.00 paint job, and I've known plenty of "gamers" too lazy to paint and pay others to do it for them for more than that. The buyer thinks that theyve got a mech that they didnt have to paint and at a decent price versus the price of buying a new one. You spin of a bunch of the same type of mech to make the most use of the mold and materials and you sell them only a few at a time as to not totally flood the market or arouse suspisions. Lets say for gigles that it cost 2.50 each to make one mech and list it on Ebay to boot (I doubt it is that much), youre still clearing 12.50 Its to the very least an easy way to recoup the cost of materials to make home spun mechs for you and your buddies that couldnt get the mechs anymore through retailers. (Or current stuff if you want a bunch and dont want to pay a premium in minature prices.) The more you sell over time the more you'll make.

I just checked Battletech Warhammers right now, and there is one person with three auctions up right now for a metal Warhammer (Used) mounted and primered "ready for painting" and described as "customized" (the antenna aerial, which usually came with an original miniature anyways) plus drilled and pinned. The prices right now range between 8.99 to 10.50. That vendor also has for sale multiples each of Marauders, Riflemen, Battlemasters, and Cylcops'es, all mounted, drilled and pinned, customized, and primered ready to paint. It might be coincidental, but thats alot of the same kinda mechs done in an almost assembly line like production method to just be from some "collection" lot.

That's a good parody of those hardcore fans.

Explain please.......

I'm assuming Exo's right in that it will be the 'regular crappy' version. I don't think they would go to the high expense of retooling the molds for minimal characters.

Wholly crap indeed

The problem was that the plant that made the Maias sucked and used crappy materials (alot of breakges) and built the whole line wrong (wrong vents/hands etc.) Some would say crappier than the already crappy standard. There sure is room for improvement, but Toynamis have their strongpoints too. Just which they would fix the downsides.

If the Garfish does come out, someone mail me the info, I would love to get one. Ive been thinking ove fabricating a display case into the form of an Ikazushi (sp?) carrier and a Garfish would complement it nicely.