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frothymug

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Doing some preliminary work for my new Macross fic that I'll be working on alongside Macross Odyssey. So far I'm going with the working title of Macross Delta. I decided on the delta because it's a symbol that means change. It'll take place in the year 2065, fifty-five years after First Macross and about five years after Frontier.

A couple of things I've got done so far are the Valkyrie list for Renegade Squadron. The Renegades are just what their name implies, pilots who aren't part of the UN Spacy forces. I haven't worked out the character details yet, but they're cast somewhat in the vein of the crew of the Serenity from Firefly.

Renegade Squadron

VF-22S Sturmvogel II

VF-19 Excalibur

VF-11C Thunderbolt

VF-17D Nightmare

VF-4 Lightning III

VF-14M Vampire

These Valkyries were "acquired" from various sources, so UN Spacy would probably be more likely to call the Renegades pirates! :)

Since I plan for quite a few fleet battles to take place in this story, the good ole' Macross will be making a comeback after a fashion. We know from MFrontier that the flagship of the 117th Research Fleet was the SDFN-4 Global. The Global was apparently a mass-produced version of the original SDF-1 Macross and according to the Macross Mecha Manual, twelve of these ships were produced. The only other ship name they had there was the SDFN-1 Hayase. Given these facts, I worked up a little list of my own.

SDFN-1 Hayase

SDFN-2 Ichijo

SDFN-3 Minmay

SDFN-4 Global [DESTROYED-2048]

SDFN-5 Fokker

SDFN-6 Jenius

SDFN-7 Enterprise

SDFN-8 LaSalle

SDFN-9 Fallyna

SDFN-10 Prometheus

SDFN-11 Daedalus

SDFN-12 Ranger

Taking a cue from the names Hayase and Global, I figured that these mass-produced Macross-class were all named after heroes of Space War I and famous ships involved in the war. That's where the names Enterprise and Ranger come from and I'm sure that any self-respecting Macross fan will recognize Daedalus and Prometheus.

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Interesting concept. A couple of questions: Are you going to have these "pirates" operating out of some kind of base, or perhaps have a mothership that they've "specially modified"? Also, are you planning on including the SDFNs in your story? In 2065, I'd think that they'd been either destroyed or decommissioned by then.

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Heh, Macross Aria includes the SDFN-03 Mikimoto. I took the clue that SDFNs were largely named after admirals and generals. Strangely, I assumed the Hayase was named for Misa's father, rather than for Misa. I suppose either could be true, since by 2012 Misa is an admiral herself, and known as a war hero. Anyway, obviously the reference for the ship's name is something of a wink and a thank you, rather than based on a pre-existing character.

Read a story that includes the Mikimoto here.

Edited by chillyche

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Interesting concept. A couple of questions: Are you going to have these "pirates" operating out of some kind of base, or perhaps have a mothership that they've "specially modified"? Also, are you planning on including the SDFNs in your story? In 2065, I'd think that they'd been either destroyed or decommissioned by then.

The Renegades will be operating out of a kind of freighter that has been specially modified to support their Valkyries. And yes, the SDFN's will be in the story, that's why I made the list. And some of them will have been destroyed or decommissioned, but not all. The Enterprise will be in the story (affectionately referred to as the Big E) and I might mention that the Hayase has been turned into a museum ship. We'll see.

I also need some info on the status of the Various Emigration fleets. Here's what I have so far:

Megaroad-01 [MIA-2016]

Megaroad-02

Megaroad-03

Megaroad-04

Megaroad-05

Megaroad-06

Megaroad-07

Megaroad-08

Megaroad-09

Megaroad-10

Megaroad-11

Megaroad-12

Megaroad-13 [Fleet lost, crew became Protodeviln slaves]

Megaroad-14

Megaroad-15

Megaroad-16

Megaroad-17

Megaroad-18

Megaroad-19

Megaroad-20

Megaroad-21

Megaroad-22

Megaroad-23

Megaroad-24 [Destroyed on Earth]

Megaroad-25 [Destroyed on Earth]

Macross 1

Macross 2

Macross 3

Macross 4

Macross 5 [ships destroyed on Planet Lux, 2045. Crew recovered by Macross 7]

Macross 6

Macross 7 [Engaged the Varauta and Protodeviln in 2045]

Macross 8

Macross 9

Macross 10

Macross 11 [still on-mission in 2059, had a brief encounter with the Vajra]

Macross 12

Macross 13 [Fleet status unknown, Battle 13 carrier destroyed in 2051]

Macross 14

Macross 15

Macross 16

Macross 17

Macross 18

Macross 19

Macross 20

Macross 21/Macross Galaxy [Fleet status unknown, Battle Galaxy carrier destroyed during Vajra Conspiracy]

Macross 22

Macross 23

Macross 24

Macross 25/Macross Frontier [Encountered the Vajra in 2059. Landed on Vajra home planet]

Q: Where there 25 or 30 Megaroad fleets?

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I posted Chapter 48 tonight, finally bringing a 3-part chapter to a close. (Chapter 1, for any new readers.)

Banshee, if those fics you linked are rather short, I'll try to find time to check them out sometime this week. It all just depends on how quickly I can get my homework done and how much I can resist the temptation to play Left 4 Dead 2. ;)

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For another fic I'm planning to write about a new interstellar war in Macross, what would make a good Macross-type villain race?

I'm thinking about those planet-sucking, resource-hungry invaders from Independence Day.

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I'm thinking about those planet-sucking, resource-hungry invaders from Independence Day.

I was thinking about something like that but the more I thought about it, the more I realized we had already had a race of mysterious, seemingly-mindless implacable aliens in the Vajra, so I nixed that. No, I've decided that the main villains of Macross Delta are going to be....... wait for it...... humans.

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I was thinking about something like that but the more I thought about it, the more I realized we had already had a race of mysterious, seemingly-mindless implacable aliens in the Vajra, so I nixed that. No, I've decided that the main villains of Macross Delta are going to be....... wait for it...... humans.

There you go. That's the goods.

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I'm sitting here doing some writing on a late Friday night, and I'm debating on experimenting with some present-tense writing. I'm wondering if I can get away with using present-tense to set up a scene, then switching back to past tense, once the action starts. Does anyone have any tips or suggestions about this? Maybe I should just stick to 100% past tense, after all...

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Oh yeah... I am supposed to check out your new fic. I've got the writing bug right now, but I'll probably take a break and visit your page soon. :)

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I'm still SLOWLY working on mine, just been insanely busy between school, flying, and as of today, the finalization of my divorce :D

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I read your prologue, Banshee. Everything looks good. A couple of minor grammatical errors and punctuation omissions, but otherwise a solid, coherent introduction.

One thing I wanted to point out was that when you described the reformation of the UN into the New UN, you only mentioned the NUNS. Remember that the Spacy is a branch of the New UN. Plus, from what I read, you are inferring that the New UN government seat is on the Frontier fleet. I am pretty sure that this is slightly misleading. The New UN is a loose collection of the city-states that constitute the individual established colonies, and the emigration fleets still searching for a planet on which to settle (correct me if I'm wrong, here). This means that each colony and fleet has governmental autonomy, like an individual country of today's Earth. However, they are still members of the association of governments, the New UN. It is to the fleets and colonies as the (real) United Nations is to our countries on Earth.

I'll read your other fic update later.

Starscream, you make your divorce sound like it's a good thing!

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Next chapter of Macross Odyssey available here. In this chapter, we delve into some of Minmay's thoughts as she stands in the empty stadium after her last concert.

Pretty good! I just wish it was a little longer ;)

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Happy to see this thread. I've had writers block for a loooong time - but eventually will crank something out - hopefully worthwhile :-)

Pete

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Happy to see this thread. I've had writers block for a loooong time - but eventually will crank something out - hopefully worthwhile :-)

Pete

That's the main reason I wanted to start this thread. I frequently run into writer's block and I would like to discuss other works to help me get out of it. Reading other works really helps. Talking to other writers and, presumably, fans and followers for feedback, is also of great assistance.

I noticed there were a couple of other fanfic writers lurking on the forums, but they never really talked about their work that much. At least everyone can come here to get some opinions.

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I read your prologue, Banshee. Everything looks good. A couple of minor grammatical errors and punctuation omissions, but otherwise a solid, coherent introduction.

One thing I wanted to point out was that when you described the reformation of the UN into the New UN, you only mentioned the NUNS. Remember that the Spacy is a branch of the New UN. Plus, from what I read, you are inferring that the New UN government seat is on the Frontier fleet. I am pretty sure that this is slightly misleading. The New UN is a loose collection of the city-states that constitute the individual established colonies, and the emigration fleets still searching for a planet on which to settle (correct me if I'm wrong, here). This means that each colony and fleet has governmental autonomy, like an individual country of today's Earth. However, they are still members of the association of governments, the New UN. It is to the fleets and colonies as the (real) United Nations is to our countries on Earth.

I'll read your other fic update later.

Starscream, you make your divorce sound like it's a good thing!

Trust me, it is.

And I have a LOT of things that have been brewing in my head concerning the piece I'm working on... a LOT of ideas. Gears have been turning vigorously.

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Is there a good place to post fan fics to link to?

Um, as long as it's Macross-related, put 'em right here. If they're not, just let us know what they are and I suppose we can amend the rules to accomodate. I threw the original rules together after a brief session of brainstorming amongst several board members. They're definitely not perfect.

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I read your prologue, Banshee. Everything looks good. A couple of minor grammatical errors and punctuation omissions, but otherwise a solid, coherent introduction.

One thing I wanted to point out was that when you described the reformation of the UN into the New UN, you only mentioned the NUNS. Remember that the Spacy is a branch of the New UN. Plus, from what I read, you are inferring that the New UN government seat is on the Frontier fleet. I am pretty sure that this is slightly misleading. The New UN is a loose collection of the city-states that constitute the individual established colonies, and the emigration fleets still searching for a planet on which to settle (correct me if I'm wrong, here). This means that each colony and fleet has governmental autonomy, like an individual country of today's Earth. However, they are still members of the association of governments, the New UN. It is to the fleets and colonies as the (real) United Nations is to our countries on Earth.

Yes and Macross Frontier describes this so well. :rolleyes: Seriously though, it's nice to know the score. I'll have to make the appropriate modifications.

I was also thinking, as part of the social commentary in my fic, I'd have a lot of mainly Zentradi characters grumbling about how a lot of humans have this attitude that they're the best race in the universe because they brought culture to the poor barbaric Zentradi. Do you think that's something that could work?

Also, I got caught up on your fic Frothymug and I'm impressed as usual. Solid writing all the way,

I just kinda wish the paintball game had only been one chapter, maybe 1 1/2. Still, the scene with Klan torturing Cal was funny and brutal. Brutal even for Klan. I mean I've been shot by paintballs and it stings like frak. But at least she finally admitted she's infatuated with him. Although imagining loli Klan kissing Cal is still a little weird. Keep up the goodness!

Lastly, I recommend reading A Frontier Anew. It takes place a year after MacF and even though its one of those "Sheryl becomes a VF-25 pilot fics," it takes a very interesting turn when Skull Squadron figures something out concerning the fate of the Megaroad-01...

Edited by VF-15 Banshee

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Watch the spoilers, bro!

Like I said at the end of that chapter, try to be ambiguous about major events like that when leaving feedback. If you feel like making some comments of a more specific nature, just send them via e-mail or PM. Do me a favor and just edit those specific comments out for me.

I read that fic that you linked already. Seems like it has some potential, but I kind of knew that he was gonna bring out the missing fleet before I was even done with the first chapter. I considered addressing the Megaroad 01 in a future fic, but I think that it's just best to leave it alone. AFAIK, he hasn't updated in awhile. Perhaps he moved on to something else.

Edited by frothymug

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Honestly, I'm finding it hard to put things into perspective, Che. I'll give it my best shot.

Based on this excerpt, you have the ability to take something as trivial as an everyday conversation between co-workers, and turn it into a multi-faceted object with texture, scent, and intensity. Much of what you have in your first chapter is something that I wish I could do myself. I frequently run across works from amateur authors that leave me somewhat jealous. The ability to describe a scene down to the tiniest detail by using abundant metaphor and contrast is something I just can't seem to do as well. When I see writing like yours, Che, it makes me hope that you continue your work. That way, I might eventually be able to glean some technique and incorporate it into my own repertoire.

Even VF-15's writing has some of the same qualities I desire: being able to step away from progressing the story and inserting long strings of insights and observations to spice things up a bit.

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on you both to see if I can possibly learn something by osmosis.

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Hey, wow, thanks, Frothymug! That's really, wow. It's always nice to get some positive feedback, particularly from a community that you respect. In particular, I've never really shared my prose before. Most people here know me as a 3d guy, although some people have read the Macross Aria script, which I think is pretty solid, but is a totally different form than prose. I've just posted the second and third chapters for everybody to read, as well.

If I can speak a little about my process... Screenwriting is ALL dialog and action. It's a very external form of writing which describes only what you can see on screen. A mistake amateur screenwriters often make is describing how somebody feels. I can't SEE sad on screen. What I can see is tears, sighs, stares off into the distance. I can hear sobbing, or cracking voices. These are the pigments by which a screenwriter paints the idea of sad. In a screenplay, one usually stays away from too many adjectives, resorting to just verbs and nouns, and the occasional visual metaphor or simile. I will always remember a line from James Cameron's ALIENS screenplay: "The tiny ship circles the roaring tower. A metal

volcano thundering like the engines on God's Lear jet."

Anyone that's seen Aliens knows what the Atmospheric Processing plant looks like, and this is a pretty fantastic description of it, and done without spending too much time, or sweating the details. It's up to the production designer and art department to take that sentence and fill in the details. And I love that style of writing. BUT... what's fun about prose is that I can describe what somebody is thinking or feeling. I don't have to reduce it to only what a person can see on screen, but I can let them enter a world. I can also stray from the point with tangents. I actually learned the value of that technique through the book The Corner by the guys that did Homicide: Life on the Street and The Wire. From time to time, they would break from the primary action (which is documentary in nature), and just sort of explain the context. I used that technique to some degree in chapter 1.

My biggest literary influences though are probably Neal Stephenson (Snowcrash is written in the present tense, which makes the entire book just blaze past, you're THERE in the moment, this isn't something that happened already, this is something happening NOW! It's the same way screenplays are written, because the action is unfolding before your eyes) and Douglas Adams. I don't really know how, because I only JUST read Hitchhiker's Guide this past winter. Although, as a kid I watched the BBC series and my friend had Dirk Gently as an audio-book, so I was no stranger to Adams' style. However, I was surprised to discover that most of what I had written in middle school and elementary school was in a sort of americanized, teenaged Douglas Adams voice. Obviously, his brand of absurdist comedy isn't really relevant to what I'm writing here, but Stephenson's flippant tone does rear itself here and there.

Whoa. Apparently I'm still in the mood to write, judging from this comment...

I was just going through the other posts here, and I noticed you asked about present tense writing... well... obviously I think it's a good idea. I also think it's possible to switch between tenses. There is a segment, in Chapter 2 (which I have just posted on fanfiction.net) that switches tense, to describe some past events, and returns to the present tense.

I don't know that I've ever seen a majority past tense project switch into present tense momentarily, though. Except of course a story that's like The English Patient or Usual Suspects or even Titanic or The Princess Bride wherein there is a story within a story; the present tense would be characters NOW describing the action THEN (the main storyline).

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I was asking because I am kind of experimenting with juggling tenses. Unlike you, I cannot yet write in present tense in an effective way. I had originally begun my fanfic in present tense and it just wasn't working out. So, I had to basically make a note to readers that I had to abandon that approach and just go with the blue chips style of writing... in past tense. I did my best to go back through my old work and re-tune the story into the correct tense, but it just didn't come out the same as before. That's why I say a lot of my early chapters just don't resonate with the proper frequency. Once you get deep into the story, though, there's a noticeable difference in the quality and style. Even now, my style is slowly evolving into a (hopefully) more perfect form. I have a long ways to go, though.

So far, I'm learning to use present tense to tear away from the story for a moment to clarify a definition, or to make a relevant observation of some everyday occurrence. I can get away with it because I'm usually talking about something that we all run into from time to time... as if it was, is, and always will be that way.

This is good discussion, though. This is why I wanted to start this thread in the first place. Reading other peoples' good work and discussing writing style really encourages me to keep on creating. I was having a lot of problems with writer's blocks and was hoping to draw a little inspiration from other writers and fans of the series.

On a related note, I could definitely use another test-reader. My current test-reader is my best friend, but she's not a big fan of the series and doesn't really understand a lot of the technical jargon I use in my stories. Not just in-universe terminology, but also nomenclature of general physics and engineering. I write in a lot of this stuff, but sometimes I get things wrong and I only have myself to check their validity.

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Well, you've got one... another reader, that is. I read your prologue already and started reading the first chapter. It's clear that Chapter 1 predates the prologue, as the writing feels much more confident in the prologue.

Of course, I haven't gotten far enough to learn where we're going with the story, but I'm guessing we're going to have some dogfighting and you've got the hang of that, certainly. There's definitely some technical aspects in there, military lingo and such, that add a level of authenticity.

The following contains nothing so much as a plot spoiler, but some brief excerpts of your prologue and chapter 1. I still protected the text.

I thought that some of the dialog could be more concise at times. In the middle of a raging space dogfight, sometimes the characters were a bit verbose. I'd expect more brevity in the communication, whether use of brevity codes, or just more terse statements. An example:

"Still though, you did quite a number on their cohesiveness as a unit," the commander remarked as he easily dispatched another drone with a gunpod kill, "It makes our job a lot easier here. You've certainly got some moves on you, kid!"

While "cohesiveness as a unit" is a valid term and concept, it's a mouthful in the middle of a battle. I would have felt more of the speed and excitement of the moment if he had said something more like:

"Still, you made a hell of a mess out of them, kid... makes our job easier..."

It's not as descriptive, and isn't quite right, but it's got the sense of people who don't have the time or need to be overly talkative. Maybe it's not the tone you're going for, which is fine, but it's an idea.

To me, the less the characters actually say, the more they can imply, so long as you set up a space for those implications to exist. Let the subtext do more of the work. Since it's not a screenplay, you can go ahead and tell me something, rather than having the character tell me. An example might be here:

"What should we toast to?" Ozma asked. Cathy debated his question for a moment, "Let's just toast. I don't think we can localize any specific subject. We've been through a lot in the last few months and I would like to see this occasion as a well-deserved vacation of sorts." Ozma didn't have a problem with her answer and he raised his glass towards her, "A toast... to everything." Cathy met her glass with his; both taking a sip before they began to eat.

Here, she says they've been through a lot. Well, he knows they've been through a lot, even if the reader doesn't. For that reason, she doesn't have to tell him, even though it's a way of letting us know. Still, I think the scene might be more poignant if she simply said, "Let's just toast." And then you could fill us in a little on WHY that was important. Maybe we can see the weight of the last month behind her eyes, or suddenly on her shoulders, or in a sigh or something. Maybe he can notice that this is maybe out of character for her, who I tend to think of as semi-Misa in terms of formalities and regulations and over-thinking things, etc. Maybe that's what makes this moment important for these two. I haven't read far enough to know what comes of these two and their relationship, so maybe I'm totally off the mark. I totally just wrote "he" and "she" so that people who haven't read the excerpt won't know who I'm talking about. I'm so anti-spoiler. I had a friend tell me, in 4th grade, right after he returned from Transformers: The Movie (1986) which characters survived. It was a big spoiler moment for me.

What I can tell is that you have some events you want to portray. You have a plot that is likely fairly well developed. And you have a knack for making things go, such as in the dogfight. I'd love to see how the writing as well as the story develops. What's challenging for me, is it seems like this is going to be an ensemble piece. We're going to hear a lot about a lot of different characters, which I always find can be daunting from a story standpoint. What do each of these characters really want? How do the plot points help or hinder them on their quest? Obviously, if they wind up encountering something that threatens their very existence, that's a simple answer, but what bigger questions will we find asked and answered? I'm curious to learn more about Cal, certainly. A book I recently enjoyed was The Heroes by Joe Abercrombie. It's fantasy, rather than sci-fi, but I thought he did a bang up job of staying away from a lot of the fantasy conventions, including tone of writing. It's also apparently set in a world he has written at least four other novels in, but I hadn't read those at the time I read The Heroes. What I found so interesting is that it is also an ensemble piece, with lots of different characters with very different perspectives. Upon reading his other books, I found that that is a gimmick of his, but I like it, and I liked it in The Heroes perhaps the most.

As far as what you had mentioned before, about the ability to take mundane happenings and turn them into tangible moments, objects, I'm really flattered. That was what I was really working on with that story. I had originally sat down to write some exciting dogfighting thing set in the world of Macross Aria, but quickly discovered that my heart wasn't in that. I wanted to do something closer to home. I wanted to describe something I knew, and I've performed at those little dives, the ones with history that seem so unimpressive now. The gross floors, the hangers-on and regulars. So, I was basically just taking the old "write what you know" adage into consideration. The little things that stick with you. For me, I actually rarely describe the setting in too much detail, but rather I describe a few key elements, not props, really, or geography, but these impressions. Like, a memory of something in the past. You might not remember where the front door was, but you remember the smell of the wood stove, or inexplicably you remember this crazy pattern on the drapes, or the way the sunlight caught those little dust motes. So that's what I describe, hoping others will fill in the gaps. That might be part of the filmmaker in me: the actual art direction in the room isn't really my department, I just have to give them something to go on, and they'll do the work. Heh. Anyway, I also think the story I'm writing is going to be a lot less complex than the story you're telling. Mine is basically a very personal story set against the backdrop of something bigger, whereas yours may be shaping up to be the story of the big picture, so it's very much more ambitious. The same is true for the way I wrote Macross Aria. In thinking about it, I've developed a very complex backstory that involves all sorts of big picture elements, intrigue, politics, battles, etc, but the story itself is just the story of one pilot and her circle of peers. I don't think it could sustain an entire series as it stands now, but 10 - 20 minutes? I think so. If I wanted to go for longer, I'd have to work into the bigger picture.

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You might not remember where the front door was, but you remember the smell of the wood stove, or inexplicably you remember this crazy pattern on the drapes, or the way the sunlight caught those little dust motes. So that's what I describe, hoping others will fill in the gaps.

This is golden. Perhaps this is what I need to understand. I tend to state the obvious, like you mentioned earlier in your post. Rather than that, I might want to pay more attention to the little things and use those to replace the descriptive phrases. The reader should be intelligent enough to fill in the gaps, as you said. It's up to the author to add an extra degree of authenticity to the situation.

I appreciate the little breakdown of those excerpts. It actually does help me by making me take an extra look at my writing from a different point of view that I hadn't considered before.

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Chapter 4 is finished but I'm still editing it, chapter 5 is under way. I could use some more readers, though.

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Hey Frothymug, I'm like five or six chapters in. I'll PM you my comments as the story unfolds.

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I did read 2 and 3. Everything seemed to roll out pretty well. I did have one observation, though,

When Vanessa went outside to investigate the disturbance, I wasn't sure at that very moment if it was the ASS-1 entering the atmosphere, or the city was under attack. I had to go back to the first chapter to remind myself that it is, in fact, February, 2009. Perhaps this is by design, but I was just wanted to note that I was a little confused at that part. It will probably become more clear in the next chapter.

I was planning on updating my story this weekend, but I have soooo much homework to do, I don't think I'll get around to it. I did do some writing last night, though. I have one new completed chapter, and I am about 2/3 done with the one after that. I'd like to at least finish writing the 2nd new chapter before posting the first one.

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@chillyche: you're right, your fic takes a different approach and location by focusing back to Earth, somewhat almost forgotten by the mass migration to the stars, along with the resulting negative effects impacting the economy and society (of those left behind).

After Chapter 3, I wonder what comes up next. :) Will wait for an update.

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