Final Vegeta

I say I'd want more non-transformable mechas and aircrafts, although the main hero must have a Valkyrie. Some really weird alien (non humanoid/energy entity) would be cool, too. FV

In another thread it was noted Shin just swam moving legs and arms. Backpack's rockets, by the way, are chemical according to Compendium, so they don't need air. FV

Which is kinda weird since they have almost the same horsepower and weigh the same Anyway, IIRC, in desert storm the record for a hard kill was 5.1 km afar. And a tank round should travel at 1.5 km/s. It takes an advanced Valkyrie to go faster than that. FV

And Macross has active stealth. It was not a coincidence. There was no big talking of it, but it was there along with energy converting armor, and Zero proves it. Anyway, Macross just chose to portray another style of combat. I suppose exposing your enemy to your plasma exhausts could have some effects, or maybe not. Anyway, these images (scroll to the bottom) show that Valkyries don't really need short range weapons. Btw, about the VF-11's gunpod... did anyone notice caliber and number of barrels are the same of A-10's gun? After all, they were both named Thunderbolt... FV

This is an old design, created specifically for a videogame. I have Macross Design Works, and lots of Valkyries started with a gun twice the size of the arm (I am not kidding, really) and shoulder cannons. Then Kawamori remove all of them. He was just having fun. FV

All the things a Spartan can do are already performed by a Valkyrie, and better. A VF-1 has 4 times the agility of a Spartan. Given transformation, costs would rise eliminating Spartan advantages... mainly cheapness. On the other side a Valkyrie can't hit hard something 50 km afar, thus a variable Monster. Btw, that variable Spartan was great FV

Kawamori also said he was going to make it look more retro, but he felt a plain F-14 wouldn't have worked as main mecha, so he chose the opposite way. Maybe the producers theirselves forbade VF-0 looking less stylish FV

Yes, they are covered. There is a hole below the nose, in Bomber mode they fire from there. The VB-6 has even a hidden missile launcher in the forearms, I guess to fire missiles without moving the arms in Bomber mode. In the pinned thread of VB-6's box art someone posted the schermatics of the VB-6. FV

The VF-9 FV

No, they thought all the transformation (they have sketches), but some details were impossible to recreate properly in a limited scale toy. Making it bigger would have helped a bit, maybe. FV

In the real world, there are no mechas. I don't think there are neutral particle beams, either (anyway, they would suck within atmosphere), or plasma swords. Or miniaturized fusion reactors. Every animes should have a subtitle: "Do not try this at home" It wouldn't be a fast transformation in real world, but then again mechas in real world wouldn't move that fast. It's a kind of glamour approach but all mecha show have it, and I can live with it. Then again, I don't think you have proof about the exact speed they were going. In anime we can have 11 years old girl who look like 15; speed must be faster in fiction than in actual reality Galileo Galilei couldn't convince people Earth was not the center of the universe, how many chances do I get? And how much do I care? I've said I don't believe in realism about mecha. If you watch carefully every shows has its guilty flaws. You say Gundam has not plasma exhausts. They have fusion reactors, and plasma weapons, yet not plasma exhausts. Well, thanks god they didn't have, or you'll end up with V2's wings of light. Like VF-1's vernier thrusters were plasma exhausts, too (only the main engines, even the backpack is chemical). Planes which transform are not realistic? The original RX-78 had the core fighter. GP01 ditto. GP03 ditto, although animation contradicts it. Z transformed. ZZ transformed and have a core fighter. V had the core fighter. And it was not the robot of the week, it was the main star of the show. Then again, I can admit usually enemies are more realistic, because they don't need to look so good and cool. I haven't watched all of Gundam, but what I saw (ignoring even AC) didn't make me scream high realism. The beam saber concept alone is enough unrealistic. You don't want to make your enemies with all their ammos and fuel exploding in your face. Yet you see a Dom leaning the muzzle of its bazooka on the chest of a Zaku and firing. In real world, would it be really a wise thing to do? In the first episode of 0083 they are training around a building. Since a MS is 20 m tall, that building must have been nearly 300 m tall, like some Eiffel Tower. Kou once jumped off from the top of it to make a sneak attack on his captain, and land undamaged without trying to brake his fall using its backpack rockets. In real world, would it be really a wise thing to do? Even Nu Gundam, which supposedly should be a gimmickless mecha, can do something as fancy as shooting dummy ballons from its fingers. Dummy ballons which can inflate up to a MS size in a second. You see Macross and you don't scream high realism, and I see Gundam and I don't scream high realism. I think disagreements are natural, so I don't care. Just don't tell a Gundam looks more realistic than a Destroid or I laugh at you. Really. What piss me is that the whole realism idea about Gundam involves a mecha which was not there in Gundam show, and many people call "Labor". Most of Gundam mecha side involves Minowsky and newtypes, which are not real world. As for the concept of mecha in real world, there are several pitfalls. If you'd just stick to make it work (walk), you'll end up with something that for good reasons no-one has ever produced. I think this is the fascination with Gundam: it can walk, and as long as there aren't any infantry with RPG, tanks and planes around it can still walk and have fun with other mechas. Obviously memory cuts Minowsky particles, newtypes, and even core fighters and transformations, so Gundam is realistic: it uses only current avalaible technology. Actually, I think mechas in real world wouldn't be used to fight other mechas. It would be too risky. Mechas would be used to fight normal infantry. In Patlabor they show how weak a mecha is. It can't have tough armor, so you can disable it with just some rifles. They have even troubles in city, since a low overpass can block their way. They don't jump. They have plenty of limits. Patlabor shows that mechas are over-rated. The power output. A VF-1 has 13 MW of power, ten times that of a RX-78. A VF-1 supposedly can fire twenty short bursts, and in each short burst fires ten rounds. So at the end a GU-11 round has the same power of Gundam's beam rifle, maybe something less out of respect, and a short burst ends up having approximately ten times the power of a beam rifle. Anyway, here is shown that the power of current real world 120 mm APFSDS round is 35,800 MJ/m^2. That's how much you can get out of ballistics. Don't understimate it, you and your lousy 1,9 MW. I think there is some linguistic barrier. Can you explain me what you want to know with other words? For what I understand, it all started about what weapon would be preferable. I started talking about curious proportions in stats that supported my final thesis. In one other thread, someone supposed the energy converting armor could work differently with the SV-51, instead of 1-3 like with the VF-0/1 it could have been something like a 1-1. I discovered why energy converting armor worked that way, and why 3 was the magic number. Where do fired megaparticles come from? The generator? It can mudane the mecha and fire mega-particles too (I could call it a Swiss power generator. Just hope Korea doesn't think about it)? There is an E-cap inside? They can't be inside beam sabers. This is how Japaneses think mechas: energy oni covered with armor. You make a hole in their skin and energy gushes out. I noticed this concept watching Evangelion: you have the light giant which is covered by armor and become an Evangelion. That's their cultural image. Or maybe it's just how people unaware of physics think energy works. It's no wonder, maybe the people that invented Gundam's physics didn't work in the sequels. After all Tomino hates war and sci-fi, he just directed. Anyway, the Z Gundam has even a beam rifle and a hyper mega launcher which both double as large beam sabers. Where do the plasma come from? We are stretching. So, Gundam had that hole in his hand, too. And it was supposed to stop before shooting, because he needs all of his power to fire (less power and beam rifle doesn't work)? How unconvenient. FV

They were so clever they tried to cash with something that even didn't have a model. But I assume a lot of Battle 7's posters were sold. She was told they got it first. The truth is out there. This is simply what he was told. The truth is out there. So the Anti-UN saw the alien ship crashing and got the overtechnology (which came from the alien vessel), yet they didn't know nothing about aliens. They didn't even try to spy people investigating on over-technology. Impressive logic. Anyway, as VF-1 power calculation was connected to the RX-78, SDF-1 is to Yamato. I believe hidden stats show something like SDF-1 being 4 times more powerful than the Yamato, maybe not for the gun but for the omni-barrier. FV

As far I can tell, the designs aren't clearly sorted. The Fz-109A has the Fighter of Me-175 Battroid, and I don't know if the Me-175 Fighter was really switched with the Fz-109A. Mahq did its best, the book itself made a mistake. I don't think he told it, either. In the same Escaflowne as it is some details may have been cut from the 39 episode version. Anyway, my guess is he didn't actually changed that much the overall story, only the mecha. After all there were always Zaibach, Asturia and Fanelia. Other things falls more under Escaflowne's development than Air Chronicles'. Hitomi was added later in the story, and so on. FV

It wouldn't be a robot that transforms, but a plane that transforms. It wouldn't be a bipedal robot, it would be a bipedal plane for combat air & gound patrol. It wouldn' be a robot, this is the difference in the real world. Anyway, I don't believe in realism about mechas What I said I believe or think is my speculation, other things (ie stats) are official and can be found in the Compendium. Was the energy converting armor really thought at the time and why? The answer is yes, given by exact proportions. Maybe if Kawamori were to make Macross nowadays he could think the concept is awkward and discard it from the show, but at the time there was this competition thing going on. Even the active stealth must have been thought twenty years ago; it wasn't new in Macross Plus, and it wasn't new in Macross Zero. These are informations we didn't know, but the in-jokes in the stats reveal them. I even suppose active stealth worked even in Battroid, and Regults, Glaugs and Queadlunn Raus all had it. The Z has beam sabers doubling as beam rifles in Wave Rider mode. At least that's what I read from mahq. There was another thing I didn't understand, from 08th MS team: The Gundam still had the generator power to use a beam rifle, though it was often equipped with a standard 100 mm machinegun or a heavy 180 mm cannon. What does that mean? The power of the beam rifle comes from the E-cap, not from the generator. I think that's some traslation error. FV

I think the Battroid of the SV-51 comes from the old Elgerzorene. What's surprising is that there is no connection between the design of the fighter and of the battroid FV

Maybe he is working on a Aquarian Compendium FV

GERWALK mode. 8.7 m. Still big and cumbersome for that size, but a hell lot faster than a labor. The seconds of fire are kinda realistic, besides you are grossly underestimating gunpod's fire. In these days the answer of a twenty years old riddle came to me, I think I have understood what VF-1's stats really meant. You may be tired of hearing it, but yet RX-78 must be named again. Given Ionesco City, Gunsight and Gundam fanclub's #1 card, Gundam cannot be parted from Macross. RX-78 overall height 18.5 meters; head height 18.0 meters VF-1 Battroid mode: Height overall: 12.68 m You can see the VF-1 is ~2/3 as tall as the Gundam. You may know it from long time. RX-78 Weight: empty 43.4 metric tons; max gross 60.0 metric tons VF-1 Mass empty: 13250 kg Standard T-O mass: 18500 kg The weight is consistently proportioned, being 2/3 tall it weighs ~1/3 (27/8). Gundam is famous for its lunar titanium alloy armor which could withstand those 120 mm Zaku's machine-gun. This alloy has "lunar" in the name because it was made in space. Now, in the official chronology of Macross there is a curious information, Valkyries were made on space colonies and the Lunar surface's Apollo Base. What does this in-joke means? Valkyrie have an armor similar to that of the RX-78. It seems authors had said Battroids have an armor comparable to that of modern day tanks, and modern day heavy tanks can actually withstand a 120 mm round fired by another tank. I have a further proof. RX-78 maximum ground running speed 165 km/h VF-1 BATTROID mode: Max level speed: walking 160 km/h As robot they have the same speed. However in GERWALK mode the VF-1 can hit 500 km/h, which is three times the speed of the RX-78. RX-78 Propulsion: rocket thrusters: 2 x 24000 kg, 4 x 1870 kg VF-1 POWER PLANT: Two Shinnakasu Heavy Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2001 thermonuclear reaction turbine engines (with thermonuclear reactor and MHD), each rated at 11500 kg [x g] class (23000 kg [x g] in overboost). This maybe doesn't seem to mean much, but let's calculate thrust to mass ratio: RX-78 48000 kg : 60.0 tons ratio: ~5/6 VF-1 46000 kg (overboost) : 18.5 tons ratio: ~5/2 The VF-1 has three times the thrust. Now, this is the key that makes all the sense: why with the energy converting armor the VF-1 can TRIPLE the Fighter mode's armor strength in Battroid mode? This is the answer: the VF-1 could choose to have either RX-78's armor and speed (Battroid) or three times less armor yet three times the speed (GERWALK and Fighter). As for power, things go differently. RX-78 Powerplant: Minovsky type ultracompact fusion reactor, output rated at 1380 kW VF-1 Battroid Mode Main Engine Power Output (Ground Combat) 17680 PS (13000 kW) The key proportion now is TEN. The RX-78 has twenty shots for its beam rifle. The VF-1 has 200 rounds (20 x 10) for its gunpod. I believe this means each round of a GU-11 does almost the same damage of a beam rifle's hit. Firing at 1200 rpm, a short burst of a half second fires 10 rounds. The RX-78 has 6 rounds for its 380 mm hyper-bazooka (5 in the clip and 1 in chamber). A VF-1 can carry four UUM-7 micro-missile pods (one on each hard point) each carrying up to fifteen Bifors HMM-01 micro-missiles, thus resulting in 60 micro-missiles. I think each micro-missile does the same damage of 1 bazooka's round. As for the head vulcans, the only stat I could find was the 60 mm bore, however for the Z Gundam I found out that each gun holds 600 rounds. No rate of fire given. As for the VF-1, I only know each laser fires 6000 pulses per minute. I think maybe there was a connection with the number 60. Following this logic, the Strike Valkyrie's beam cannons should do 5 times the damage of a beam rifle each (5x2=10), which is also five times the damage of a GU-11 round. As for the rest, VF-1 has pretty much the same things the RX-78 has. The RX-78 has Minowsky particles, the VF-1 has active stealth (plus more advanced tracking technology, ie optics and infrared). The RX-78 has re-entry coolant system, the VF-1 has transformation. The RX-78 has a magnetic coating upgrade, the Compendium says the VF-1 has "Fluid pulse actuators enabling transformation". The RX-78 has learning computer, the VF-1 has combat computer, engine control system, and fire control system in chest section in Battroid mode, plus internal navigation system, AOA detector, and balance controller in nosecone, and many other things, some of them I can't even understand what their use is (ACS?). Then the VF-1 has various booster, for the armor (GBP-1S), the speed (FAST Packs) and the power (nukes), but this is another thing. It seems Gundam concentrate solely on the weapons. The things that bothers me is that they started mixing together beam rifle and beam sabers. They don't work the same way. FV

Gundam was so tall because of sponsor constraints. Creators tried their best to be realistic. Maybe you missed some people who worked on Gundam: http://www.anime.net/macross/production/cr...ichi/index.html http://www.anime.net/macross/production/cr...iroh/index.html Anyway, without Gundam someone would have still drawed inspiration from Starship Troopers or the like. http://www.ex.org/4.1/33-book_g2.html The Guncannon, the original mecha, is similar to a powered armor. FV

True. I think it was just thought an explanation of songs, tiing them to Protoculture, but not exactly in the way Macross 7 did. Aristotle once said horses bear eggs of flies inside them, since he has always seen a swarm of flies over a dead horse and he wondered where it came from. Thinking of the horse as a Macross series, and of the flies as dissatisfied fans, I find it rash judging immediatly the horse itself bore the seeds of Very Bad Storytelling. We have fans who complain mecha VS mecha is dull, and we have fans who complain mecha VS alien is dull. Some fans will complain if you remove music from Macross, some fans will complain if you expand its role. Some fans complain characters didn't change after 3 OVAs and author changed after 20 years. We have even some fans who complain because the main star were the Valkyries and not the Destroids. Fandom is a whiny bitch who will complain about everything. You can expect it. Maybe the things fandom would complain less are unlimited power beyond everything else and thousands of deaths, but I won't bet my money on that. Anyway, there is one important thing we all should remember: Kawamori thought his public as being Japanese. The disagreement fans can have here doesn't really prove the show is bad. The number of dissatisfied fans doesn't matter. Macross 7 in Japan was succesful, so maybe Kawamori thought he could did the things he did. He knew something we don't. He is like the best Japanese cook of the world who gives you his best natto dish The key phrase of Macross Zero actually seems to be "You have a kadun attached to you that believes only what it sees". I've heard the meaning of Arjuna was that everything has a spirit in it. What you can find in Macross Zero is more dued to Arjuna than to an extraordinary love for Macross 7. FV

I do agree with what you said about Matrix and Star Wars But Macross Zero is more slightly tied to the other works of the same fictional universe. Matrix mantained the same characters, and I can't say they were really ruined in the sequels; they added mostly useless characters, and some character like the French at least was funny although he did nothing in the final. What showed signs of decay was the fact agents weren't badasses anymore, since anyone was willing to fight against them and could manage to survive. It was how they story was wrapped in Revolutions what really turned the sequels into a crap. Star Wars also mantained as many old characters as it could. Qui-Gon Jinn was nobody, Darth Maul too. People cared for the emperor, Obi-Wan, Anakyn, Yoda, Boba-Fett... and indeed they ruined one of the best villain ever showing him as that kid. They didn't stop at that, but from the beginning they turned battles into slapstick farces. The story itself... well, events are going in the direction they should, it's just they chose ludicrous plot devices and character development to make them going. Macross Zero of the old show can ruin only Focker, and I don't feel it's doing it, aside from drawing differently. No inexperienced and bungler guy has still saved the day, so battles are safe, too. The only thing added was a person who the show insisted in showing she was born special, and what she has done so far is still insignificant. It's obvious she will do more things later, but I think this is a proper introduction which laid some limits, and in itself, unlike Macross 7, it doesn't have any relevance for events happened in the original series. The story of Macross Zero itself doesn't have connections with the story of SDF, as it seems it could be a bridge for something which is following Macross 7. But it's only when you've watched it you start talking about why it was received that way Hearing people talking about a thing without really having seen it first can sometimes leads to a will of disagree with those people once you've seen the thing About why a person perceives a thing in a way, it's too difficult to say, especially if you want do discern whether it was a matter of the show or of the person. I myself have rewatched something and discovered it was different from what I remembered. Once I was seeing Evangelion with my cousin. It was the first time he saw the episode, and he kept asking what was happening and why. I thought it was obvious what was happening (weird things because of an angel's attack), and if it wasn't clear you should have just waited until something would have revealed it to you. James Hudnall wrote the reason why people find something boring is because there is too much neutral. There should be a shift in polarity between a scene and the other, a positive scene (a character doing fine) should turn into a negative, and a negative one can even turn into a more negative one. This shift of polarity marks the impact the story is having on characters. In a good show the shift should became bigger each time, until the climax. I don't buy the lack of development many claim. It's just that some people don't think the story is having too much impact on the characters so far, so they don't see the way they are changed, too. Obviously, when you don't like a thing you aren't pushed examining it further, and maybe you can even miss some details, resulting in that you don't understand later things and so you dislike the show even more. In Macross Plus the lead's goals were clear from the beginning: winning the project and Myung. These grails were contended by an apt villain, and the way the grails came closer or further to the lead marked the progress in the story and what is called growth in the characters. In Macross Zero the lead didn't have clear grails so far. It has been a mix of survival, both own and others', pride of being an ace, and the AFOS' head. Getting the girl is a separate matter. So, at the end, Macross Zero is losing not because it's bad in itself, it's losing simply because of a formula. Sad but true. FV

Men with small penis trying to compensate I think that for Japaneses they symbolize samurai and nobility in general, and nobility is slicing defenseless peasants protected by armor. The main Gundams have even two swords like a master samurai. While mechafans like them for the over-all image of a tank (although not being a tank, because lots of people hate tanks), Japanese children like them because they look strong. Which is strange since Macross' mecha designer was always the same and Gundam' were only supervised each time by Okawara. Maybe that's because Kawamori was creatively experimenting and Gundam's mecha designers were simply following directives. Anyway, I like the way every Valkyrie has a subtly different transformation. FV

You know the funny thing? Naruto's author as a kid was (and I think he still is) fond of Arale, Dragon Ball, Dragon Quest and everything else Toriyama designed. FV

According to Compendium, the VF-1 itself was made in space. A Gundam in-joke. FV

Nor do airplanes that become giant robots, giant humans that don't crush themselves under their own weight, artificial gravity on a spaceship... So yes, at the end all is just "willing suspension of disbelief". One more reason to stop talking about this magic nonsense. FV

I really don't know where it comes from the whole conviction of lack of "growth" or "development". I found interesting for writing (and judging) a story this guide: http://www.jameshudnall.com/write1.htm I think there may be several philosophies and theories about the art of storytelling, and all methods of insights may have their strengths and limits, but I found that one honestly good. For istance, it says the dimensions of a character are given by the number of his contradictions. And it says not all characters in a story can or must be three-dimensional. Only the main characters must necessarily be three-dimensional. Example: Nakajima, the mechanician. He yelled Shin because he was ruining his engines yet he told Roy he was happy to see someone who could use his engines at fullest (shin lacked LOVE. As I stated in an earlier post, Macross Zero is about love). This is a contradiction, so that makes Nakajima at least a bidimensional character. He is secondary, so he doesn't need to be pushed further, but he isn't really flat. The same for Nutuk the village elder, who knows of technology and modern civilization yet still relies on his myths to explain things. He is on the same level of Nakajima. There is a comparison between Macross Plus and Macross Zero. Now, let's see the characters in order of importance and characterization: PRIMARY The Love Triangle: -Guld hates Isamu, Guld and Isamu want Myung, Myung wants Isamu -Mao hates Sara, Mao and Sara want Shin, Shin wants Sara (we can reasonably suppose things will end up that way) The Villain: -At first there was Guld, in the last part Sharon showed up. -Up until now there is Nora, but maybe later the AFOS will show up. SECONDARY The Scientist: -Yang Neumann -Aries Turner The Military Chief: -Col. Millard -The guy at the ASCA didn't do nothing until now, you can replace him with Roy TOTALLY SECONDARY The Greedy Scientist: -Marje -Maybe Dr. Hasford will have greater relevance with flashbacks and the like; Sara and Aries are already influenced by him. Otherwise you can replace him with Ivanov as a generic role not really friendly to main characters. The Partner: -Lucy -Edgar (Said this way it may be humorous thinking of Shin and him as a couple, but I meant it as a generic acquaintance of the lead travelling with him for a while, despite not being the love of his life) Others: -Myung's friends (Kate and Morgan), whose only role was to show Myung as an unhappy spinster. Descardable characters over-all. -Katy, the girl who kicked Shin's ass. The only one until now who has done it even literally. She showed up again in the third episode. She is meant to show girls can be strong too, and you don't need giving him a mecha to insert a character in the show. What else? Higgins? Raymond (Redmond?)? Were there other characters in Macross Plus I can't remember? Macross Zero has even Nakajima and Nutuk. I saw sketch design for a further character who should be introduced in the remaining OVAs. From my point of view, Macross Plus and Macross Zero are quite alike in characters. Macross Zero has simply some more characters. I think the advantage of Macross Plus is that Guld was both a main character (and stayed a main character of course) and the main villain until Sharon showed up. Guld was well characterized from the beginning since he was a main character, while Sharon's characterization entered the "active" phase only in the last part of the show. Before that there was simply the concert hall trial and some cameras pointing Isamu. In the meantime you've always had a characterized villain (Guld). If you take the AFOS as the Sharon role, until now it just had a reaction to Shin in episode three, so it's really alike to Sharon. It's just that the hole between the supposed AFOS' active role (in the last part) and the beginning wasn't really filled by Nora. I think the show ended up involuntarily deceptive, in that is easy to think this show is Roy Fokker VS DD Ivanov, while they are both secondary characters in the background; the lack of examination thorough Ivanov so far really became a vital flaw, but then the story isn't ended yet. About what can be called "growth", I don't see really that much differences between Macross Plus and Macross Zero either. Is the Shin of the third episode really the Shin of the first? And the same for Sara? And are they the same they were as children? Indeed they had a change, even if that wasn't meant to be the growth. First of all, not all characters are required to "grow", only the lead. Considering the story as a premise to be proven (that is, to make a sense), there are two possible ways: either the protagonist listened to the premise from the beginning and he is rewarded at the end (let's say Macross 7), or the protagonist starts in opposition of the premise and he ends up liking it or adopting it (let's say Lilo & Stitch). I think the latter is found to be the most satisfying, since the protagonist is forced to change, that is to grow, which is something all seem to like. Anyway, the growth must be a gradual process that takes the whole work (no less, no more), otherwise a quick turnaround will make a character looking like a wacko. Besides, you can't go on if you exhausted the sense of your story in the first chapter. What else can you really do? For Macross Plus it was the same. The Movie, being the original story, makes more sense, since it was more centered on Myung. Myung is the character who really grows in Macross Plus. Indeed, Myung, Isamu and Guld are all fighting against virtuality. The show rapresented the limits of real experiences, like listening to a singer which doesn't have a heart, fighting with unmanned planes instead with pilots and believing memories which don't actually coincide with reality. It was Isamu's the key sentence of Macross Plus, "A hundred travel books aren't worth a real trip" (the OVAs still maked sense because of this), yet is Myung the character who doesn't adhere to Macross Plus' premise. In the end, living with Guld would have been somewhat negative, in that he was negating his memories and she was negating her real vocation, while Isamu was a positive force (although a jerk) that helped her regaining her singing and her independence. As for Macross Zero, like I am nauseated to say again, the story isn't ended yet. Yet I see a climax building, so I have expectations. I just don't demand they ruin the storytelling carrying out the conclusion before the end. FV