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Spoiler tags as I'm one of the believers in the "24-hour after subs are released" philosophy

What was the purpose of removing their jackets? Was it to propel them toward the cable?

That's a fun thought... if the Brisingr cluster offices are Kaos's equivalent of "reassigned to Antarctica" used to get rid of staff who can't hack it in a more important market or who would be legally problematic to fire, that'd go quite a ways to explain why Kaos's staff seems to lackluster compared to the fairly elite SMS troops from Frontier.

I dunno. Luca was SMS and he didn't seem that elite.

I know nothing about her Japanese, but if I were to cast a dub, I'd give her Andrea Libman... better known in some circles as Pinkie Pie. Just for the somewhat-obvious reference, which is more than the colour scheme.

What about Ashleigh Ball? Not so much for her voice, but for the obvious apple-fixation reference

Saw this theory posted on Reddit and thought maaaaaaaaybe it could be considered a possibility. Though it's early and I'm half asleep so it may sound silly.

I'd like that to be the case, if only because it would be really unexpected for them to go with something so... expected. But, keep in mind Delta is taking place pretty far away from Frontier (right?), so that would be quite the leap.

Still, it would be nice to have some more bleed over from previous works. At the very least an odd VF-25 or something.

On another note, one thing I've loved about Delta over Frontier - much more action. I remember waiting for many weeks just to get a Valkyrie battle with Frontier, whereas in Delta they have had pretty consistent action. Unfortunately, they still rely on recycled animation more than I would like (none at all being the ideal).

Hmm, so is Mikhail dead or alive, it's kind of like Heizneberg's uncertainty principle, the only way to find out is to get a Vajra and have him impale Mikhail again, if he twitches a lot, then the movie continuity must be right since obviously he would've been alive, otherwise he wouldn't be twitching.

Honestly I always expected Mikhail to come back as a cyborg man (just where was Brera during that scene?), but the movies ended up being a retelling instead of a sequel. Ah well, guess we'll never know.

Honestly Lady M is probably going to be someone really boring. My guess is it's Mikumo... she seems like she's pulling strings behind the scenes.

Or maybe it's Messer, who faked his own death to be Lady M full time.

Edit since there have been no replies:

It also occurred to me that even though Ernest Johnson saved the day like three times and got a ton of civilians to safety, this is still technically a loss since they had to abandon the planet. I guess now it's 101 losses out of 101 battles.

To be fair, a guy can't side with the losing side every time and actually survive without having some kind of skill.

I think the idea they were trying to convey is that Ernest Johnson fights for principle rather than for personal gain.

That would be going to extremes. I'm saying we should be trying to understand what happened in the episode, because there is a language barrier for most of us and the direction is confusing at times.

But what some of you guys are saying is very biased and bordering on headcanon.

I wasn't saying the show isn't real so nothing matters - quite the opposite. I'm saying it is a story that is written with some purpose and direction in mind, and we should be focusing on that rather than trying to come up with the strategies the characters should have used if it were a real battle.

I mean, sure, speculating and theorycrafting are all well and good, but the negativity is getting a little out of hand here.

You're acting like this is real. It's a story, with a direction, dramatic license and a pace.

If anything, Elysion coming to the rescue was reminicent of Quarter's surprise attack - coming out of nowhere and saving the day even though if they had been off by one second it would have failed. When this stuff happens mostly off screen no one questions how the heck they pulled it off for some reason.

Again, I'm just stating what happened in the episode, and how those events were presented. The director's intent, if you will. I'm trying to see what is there, not what I want to be there.

Keep in mind they didn't expect the Sigur Valens to be waiting for them where it was. They were surprised by that, as Gramia was able to position his ship in preparation for Elysion's attack.

That Johnson was able to get a shot off at all in that situation is a testament to his speed and skill. At least, that's how it's presented.

Many a battle has been won by a bold, audacious action by a commander. It is only after the fact that commander would be deemed brilliant.

Yeah, a lot is determined by success.

Elysion blocking the Sigur Valen's shot? Brilliant!

If Elysion was off a bit and smashed into the city ship instead? Well...

Actually, I can explain that one with minimal conjecture.

Thus far, everything we've seen Gramia's rune react to when he displays prescient knowledge has involved fold waves in relatively close proximity to him. He detected Macross Elysion's fold jump to Al Shahal with a defold point practically on top of the Sigur Valens, and we know from Macross Frontier that folding ships produce measurable and detectable disruptions in super dimension space (fold waves) that can be used to track folding ships. A fold jump exchanges the space containing the ship with an equivalent volume of space at the destination, so even though the Macross Elysion was still 30 light years away when he sensed a fold jump, because the defold point was practically in his lap he would be able to detect the fold waves from the fold system's distortion of local space.

Likewise, on Ragna, he detected the activation of a thermonuclear reaction warhead's trigger... the trigger mechanism of a thermonuclear reaction warhead uses a resonance fold effect to excite heavy quantum until it collapses fully into this dimension, crushing the warhead's hydrogen warhead material past the fusion point. More fold waves of a very specific variety as a precursor to detonation. Keith clearly sensed them as well, which is why he bailed before the bomb even properly went off.

We know some Windermereans, particularly the royal family, have a fold receptor factor and can therefore receive, transmit, and interpret certain types of fold waves... and we also know via the White Knight with Black Wings manga that runes can transmit and receive emotions, so that may help.

In all likelihood, Gramia didn't detect the Macross Elysion's dynamic entry because it defolded too far away for him to sense it (and Heinz is the only one with a booster) and made its dive on purely sublight power.

That's all based on an assumption though - you assume he sensed Elysion's fold, which wasn't stated in the show. All we know is that he was waiting there ready to go when Ernest and crew showed up. We know from past Macross shows you can't just fold away at a moment's notice - it takes preparation. Now, maybe that Sigur Valens can, but that would be an assumption as well. I'm trying to keep those to a minimum and just focus on what was actually in the episode.

Consider the possibility that Gramia had information sent to him, and that the NUNS were working in his favor with the bomb. If that is indeed the case, then Ernest performed above and beyond, thwarting Gramia three times in the space of the single episode, even when the deck was stacked against him.

Maybe this is an assumption as well, but it makes sense. The timing was just too perfect. And, since I still have this on my clipboard:

That face says it all.

If Gramia really has precognition, then why didn't he sense the Elysion coming to block the shot?

Let's see how much conjecture it takes to explain that one away.

Well from what we've seen much like the Nome sisters he can sense hostile intentions. What Ernest did was protect Aether and Barrette City.

I think it is more accurate to call it emphatic ability. We've seen low level telepathy before in Macross 7 and Macross Dynamite 7. Mylene with Gubaba and Zolans with Catsnakes.

Ranka had an emphatic-telepathic connection with the Vajra in Frontier.

And there's the conjecture. Personally, I'd rather just look at what the show is showing us and go with that. In this case, what we've been shown is more than sufficient to explain what's going on... unless I'm totally wrong and there is no conspiracy. In which case it would just be lazy writing.

Also, I think you mean to say "empathetic" not "emphatic". Empathetic essentially means feeling another's feelings. Emphatic is saying something with lots of emphasis, such as:

LOOK AT THE NUNS WEASEL MAN! LOOK HOW HAPPY HE IS! THIS ISN'T A FACE YOU MAKE WHEN THINGS GO WRONG!

Like that.

If Gramia really has precognition, then why didn't he sense the Elysion coming to block the shot?

Let's see how much conjecture it takes to explain that one away.

Based on what we see in the show (and how it is directed - NUNS guy says "now", Gramia is like "okay, now" - red rune. Then when the bomb is detonated everyone else is like "something is happening but we're not sure what!" blue rune), if we go with the fewest assumptions, it's more likely there is a conspiracy than it is that Gramia can see the future.

Not only that, but NUNS weasel man isn't the least bit disappointed he didn't blow up the Sigur Valens. He just kept his "this is all going according to plan" grin and was like "what they said would happen happened, so now that we're done here we can go home. Byeeeee~"

Really, the more I watch the scene, the more it looks like the NUNS guy and Gramia are in collusion.

The problem is, even if you put yourself in the view of the characters with the knowns and unknowns they have to work with (as I did in my previous post) it's pretty obvious that Johnson and Lady M's counterattack plan was a stupid, suicidal, full-blown Leeroy Jenkins move.

I don't agree. Everything they did was based on the intel they had at the time. Going alone was a calculated move since they were more resistant to Var thanks to hanging out with Walkure (and this is shown to be true in ep 13). The plan to quickly strike at the head of the snake was a good one, but it didn't work because Gramia was literally just sitting there waiting for them to show up. Despite this massive disadvantage, Ernest managed to get a shot off thanks to his quick reaction, which bought the good guys some much needed time.

Ernest is at legend status after this episode.

Also, did anybody else notice the animation error in this episode? Hayate is back in his -31J for a moment.

Then he has to be getting some real time intel on when Ernie boy folds in; because there is no other way he is timing the jump out of Al Shahal so perfectly.

But let's set aside Garmia for a second, and ask the question if he is getting fed intel, how the hell did Keith knew ahead of time to pull away from the dogfight with Hayate? Did he have his Apple Watch set up to alert him on when the bomb would go off? Cause I don't think Valan set a timer on the thing.

There isn't any need for real time intel. They established in ep 12 that they were going to wait for Elysion to make its attack before setting off the nuke. They had a plan - a plan that could have easily been communicated to Gramia (probably through that shady Epsilon guy). Why else would Gramia be waiting for Elysion to arrive, then fold to Ragna, enter the atmosphere (something I don't believe they did at Al Shahal), then proceed to wait above the ruins for the bomb to blow, shield themselves from it (protecting a number of their ships in the process - I just rewatched that part), and then dock with the thing that shows up after without hesitation?

Keith didn't know - he felt it when the bomb blew, and showed signs of surprise, unlike Gramia. Everyone was surprised except for Gramia, who has this look on his face like "this is all going according to plan."

As for why Elysion went alone, they established that too. Because they figured they would have a higher resistance to the Var thanks to hanging out with Walkure longer than the rest of the Xaos guys, thus making them a liability. Also, they established that each time Windermere has attacked in the past, they had to retreat for a minimum of 24 hours before mounting another operation. It was more than just a hunch.

And as I stated before, Ernest started evacuating the civvies before weasel man even arrived. In fact, the NUNS made no attempt whatsoever to evacuate the civilians. That was all Ernest's doing.

As for the Windermere propaganda... it only needs to work on Windermere people. To galvanize them against the NUNS. It certainly worked on Keith.

By its vary nature everyone outside of a country (or planet) knows propaganda is all lies. It only needs to work internally.

Edit:

At the post credits scene of episode 13, Roid looks kinda shady. What does he put away after covering up Gramia? Maybe he was taking out his leader-shades, but it looked more like he was concealing something. Also, does he say that it was Gramia's last wish that he take command? That seems like an opportunistic lie.

Garmia does precog on the bomb, you can see his crusty old rune light up right before he orders maximum shields to the bottom, same thing when he feels Ernie coming in episode 12.

I don't think it's precognition. I think corrupt people in NUNS are feeding him intel.

The rune flash can mean just about anything at this point.

Man I hate being the last post on a page. Everybody go back to page 4 and read my post. I may have cracked this walnut...

Or maybe I didn't. Just someone please pay attention to me

So, I've been thinking about the pieces we have been presented with so far and have some thoughts to share.

After this episode, I'm pretty sure the NUNS is in league with Windermere. The whole plan to blow up the ruins on Ragna seems to have been orchestrated specifically to help Windermere, not stop them.

When the bomb is about to blow, Gramia acts like everything is going according to plan. It doesn't look like precognition... he isn't surprised like he would be if his spidey sense was suddenly tingling. It was more like "it's time for the bomb to go off, so focus our defenses in that direction."

Now, you may then ask, why would he allow his fleet to be destroyed? Because it's a conspiracy. He sacrificed his fleet to keep up the charade that NUNS is evil and will stop at nothing to be evil, just like he has been doing with the 'scar' on Windermere.

Which leads me to the next point: the scar on Windermere. It was clearly caused by a nuke or a dimension weapon, allegedly because the NUNS are bad guys who like to blow up mountains for no reason. This has been the biggest propaganda tool for getting Windermere into the war, but why did it actually happen? Well, when the nuke on Ragna went off it exposed something unexpected - a protoculture thingy that is probably important or something. Could it be the same thing happened on Windermere? Did they blow up something to get something else to appear? Like that ship maybe? Then they blamed NUNS for it to get the invasion plot going. Maybe moving the ship caused some additional problems. Admittedly, it would be pretty hard to hide that from the people on Windermere... and maybe Freja saw something she wasn't supposed to.

So, with what happened on Windermere, and what happened on Ragna, added to Gramia's levelheadedness and weasel face NUNS guy being a weasel face, it seems pretty clear there's a conspiracy going on that involves those parties. Everything was orchestrated to work out this way for Windermere. I don't know what NUNS stands to gain (or, more likely, some higher-ups in NUNS a la the Galaxy fleet leadership), but that's probably going to be revealed later. Also, it probably took some inside people in the NUNS to distribute the apples and drug water that made the Var possible to begin with.

It's pretty similar to Frontier actually, where you had people in both the Galaxy and Frontier government exploiting something (Vajra then, Protoculture remnants now) for their gain, with a third party PMC standing in between. Only, Xaos isn't SMS, so it's more a little more dire.

Only, now Gramia is toast. Though, did we see him getting toasted? Or did Roid take the opportunity to toast the guy himself?

Then again, this whole thing could have just been Gramia really wanting to get his hands on that limited edition display stand for his 144/1 scale Protoculture warship.

Edit: BY THE WAY

I am re-watching episode 12 right now, and Ernest started evacuating the civilians before weasel man even showed up.

Edit 2: And furthermore:

When Keith asks Gramia when they should strike Ragna (I think he said something to the effect of "we can strike them at any time"), he's like "not yet, something something wind" with no concrete reason as to why they are waiting. Then the NUNS agrees to wait for the attack operation to happen before they detonate the nuke. So, they could have easily informed Gramia when the attack would happen, giving him the opportunity to not only avoid Elysion, but also arrive just in time for the fireworks.

If this is indeed the case, then Johnson is actually one hell of a commander, because he thwarts Gramia not once, but twice with nothing but pure timing and skill. Three times if you count him getting Walkure back to Ragna so quickly.

Heh, Walkure.. Var-cure. Silly.

It was good to see an ex gear being used for once. Though you have to wonder how reliable these things are. They always seem to be sputtering out when you need them most.

About the fighter combat:

That said, I really enjoyed this episode. It was super fun and exciting, even if it was a little predictable in some places (which can sometimes add to the excitement when you see something coming... but maybe that's me having a far too positive attitude). Really looking forward to what comes next.

Though, for the record, even if some parts have been predictable, this series does keep surprising me.

What do you suppose a FOD walk is like in Macross? Just a bunch of guys looking for bridges on the runway?

Maybe Macross-era bridges are rated in how many VF-1s they can withstand.

That one was rated at 1/2, or 500 millivalks.

Gerwalk probably still bleeds alot of energy though, and, with the engines pointing down, they probably lose alot of speed as well. The main use for it, as you said, you be as a replacement for a cobra, however Keith already doesn't need to do that since he can just use his Li'l Draken's to the same effect by rotating them backwards.

IMO, it's more likely just the crew acknowledging that traditional air combat is still more practical. Besides, both Keith and Messer strike me as very practical pilots, not restricted by doctrine like Mirage, nor flashy like Hayate and Bogue - they just do enough to get the job done, even sacrificing the Li'l Draken was more out of necessity than pure showing off.

As for the pilots getting crushed due to acceleration, these planes are far more likely to burn up due to friction than to have that happen to their pilots thanks to ISC.

Doesn't ISC have a limit, though? Like with the VF-25 it was said to be able to compensate for so many seconds of x acceleration? Also, I think it has a limit as to how many gs it can negate.

Well, it's immaterial.

Either way, I still think it's an honor thing. I think Keith would be surprised if he encountered a pilot that 'made him switch modes'. Doing everything in fighter is akin to fighting with a limitation. Using the arms to point the weapons in any direction is just such a useful thing to have at one's disposal (not to mention the rapid deceleration or change in attitude the legs and body could provide).

We'll see if anybody forces Keith to actually change modes in a fight. Or maybe we won't. I'm just theory-crafting here.

If you want a good example of modern Valkyries engaging in multi-mode air to air combat, look no further than Sayonara no Tsubasa. The YF-29 vs the VF-27 had a lot of multimode shenanigans. Battroids aren't a liability in air to air combat, because transformations are so fast, and thrust to weight ratios are so high, that one can transform, pop off a few shots, and the transform back to fighter and accelerate to maximum corner velocity almost immediately. The idea of 'losing too much' energy doesn't factor in at all.

Remember what made Max such a good pilot? (IMO) It wasn't that he was especially good at any one mode, but rather he was good at using all modes simultaneously. The transformation ability of the Valkyrie is its chief strength, and pilots who don't get that are missing out. Shinn Kudo from Zero complained that he didn't become a fighter pilot to crawl around on the ground (or something to that effect), and Roy berated him for not understanding the bigger picture.

That said, I believe every pilot to date has shown a pretty clear 'mode preference'. Alto preferred fighter, Basara preferred battroid, etc. It's actually pretty fun to think about (again IMO).

Also, when talking about the armor strength of these things, have you guys forgotten how INSANELY TOUGH the VF-1 was? Remember in DYRL? when Hikaru FLEW THROUGH A BRIDGE in GERWALK mode? Fast forward to 2059, and Alto crash lands his VF-25 on a the rocky surface of a planet with barely a scratch to show for it. And, to top things off, said VF-25 was unpowered at the time, meaning no energy converting armor (I assume).

Valkyries are so resilient I'm kind of surprised they can be shot down at all. I guess that just goes to show how powerful their weapons are.

Nah, them sticking to fighter mode because they're fighting within an atmosphere sounds like a more plausible reason. Speed is life after all in air combat.

People are too used to seeing transforming as a move that gives someone an edge, yet at most what we see in the shows mostly just works due to the surprise factor. Once you get over that bit and figure out that a battroid is a (relatively) slow moving target that's bleeding energy, then it becomes easier to deal with.

In a dogfight too much speed is a problem. Corner velocity is really where one wants to be, which is neither too slow nor too fast. These fighters have effectively unlimited energy as well, and can accelerate fast enough to crush the pilot, so these WWII-esque analogies really don't apply.

Besides, gerwalk mode is way more effective than those cobras they keep pulling, and being able to keep a weapon system on target using the arms is nothing to scoff at either.

Its just a style thing in the show - there is no good reason for it outside of the duel.

Perhaps the reason they stuck to fighter mode was some kind of honor duel thing. I mean, if you are dueling with swords, it wouldn't be too honorable to pull out a pistol...

Keith using the previously hidden weapon is akin to pulling out a hidden dagger.

That and the use of the drone could be perceived as underhanded, IMO.