RavenHawk

How can you tell from the outside of the box if it is the metallic version?

I ordered from them 2 nights back, then went to pay by paypal, and the page got screwed up somehow.

Now it says my status is "checked out" but paypal doesn't show the payments, and I can't find anything on the Angolz page on how to contact them.

That works.

Thanks!

Definitely some similarities.

No one has any screen caps, or no one cares?

The trick to getting the MPC's arms to fully collapse and close is this: Fold in the hands last.

Collapse the forearm completely, so that the locating tabs at the top of the forearm engage into their corresponding slots in the shoulders. The forearms should then fit pretty tightly to the shoulder. Once the forearm is secured then (and only then) should you attempt to flip the hands into their storage bays. You have to get the fingers positioned just so, so that they will permit the arm covers to close fully. If you don't have the hands folded correctly, you won't be able to get the arm covers closed.

All discussion of shoddy materials aside, I think that the leading precursor to broken hands on the MPCs is overstressing caused by the internals of the arms basically crunching the folded hands as in a vice when the arms are collapsed with the hands stored.

Ray's advice up top on getting the legs and torso to extend and collapse fully is spot on. When compressing the legs for fighter mode, you'll know they are compressed enough when the locating tab on the bottom of the arm matches it's mating notch on the lower leg. It should be able to snap in without pulling the upper and lower arms apart.

HTH.

I'll give it a shot tomorrow. Thanks.

I got my Beta last week and I'm very happy with it but like many others, had a few minor issues. I've learned a little tweaking to items can improve how much I like them.

For anyone having problems with the support bar that holds the Alpha being loose when you slide it into the Beta, I found out scotch tape can help. Here's what you do:

Put the bar into the Beta and determine exactly where on the bar is covered by the hole entrance. Take a little scotch tape and wrap it 1 length around that part. It won't take much. Now you can put the the tape all the way on the end of the bar but it’s a tighter fit on the arm that's near the mouth of the hole. A little trial and error will get it perfect. Do this and slide the bar back into the Beta and you'll find it creates a tension that holds it in place and makes it nice and snug. I have not had any problems since. And because the arm itself is in the hole, its hidden and you can't see the scotch tape.

The other thing I did (temporarily) was to wrap a little plastic around the head of the Beta cockpit for when I have the Alpha and Beta connected in fighter mode. I took a litte bit of the plastic from the bag that held the manual and wrapped it around the cockpit head. I cut it and made a sheath out of it so I can slide it on and off. This way, when I dock the Alpha in fighter mode to the Beta, it doesn't scratch the yellow on the cockpit. The plastic is hidden since the cockpit is folded down between the Alpha's legs. Now its my intention to find a more permanent solution for that and find a way to cover up the yellow for when the Beta is in battloid mode but for the time being, it will due.

Thanks. I was actually planning on trying the exact same thing with the scotch tape, but you beat me to the punch. I'll give it a try.

Her personal bike in the first episode is red, as seen in the opening montage when she's polishing it and then later when she gets a hamburger and runs into Leon. The blue bike she steals from a guy after wrecking the car with the boomer in it.

You're right. My mistake.

Ok, so I'm taking about the blue bike she steals from a guy...

Yeah, that lower torso collapse is a real bugger in the design. Make sure the little panel on the thing's butt is pulled outward flush & square. (It pushes inward to accomodate the bulge of the canopy in Battloid/Soldier mode.) If it's not normalled-up for Fighter, it can keep the torso from collapsing properly.

A fully extended knee areas should look like the following pictures.

Keep in mind the knee joint pulls down from inside the upper leg, and the lower leg pulls down from the knee. So you've got two stages there.

Just for the heck of it, I took shots of fully extended bicep/shoulder areas, too.

Keep in mind the knee joint pulls down from inside the upper leg, and the lower leg pulls down from the knee. So you've got two stages of extension there.

When you say "Shadow Alpha", you're meaning the Shadow Chronicles Sterling Alpha, right? Not the Sue Graham "Shadow Fighter" Alpha, right?

Thanks, clearly the legs weren't fully extended.

No, I DO mean the Sue Graham "Shadow Fighter" Alpha. Why?

Though there are some slight similarities to the Morpho 2.

Maybe this is more based on 80's views of future bikes, than direct inspiration.

I started rewatching the original Bubblegum Crisis (2032) last night. I noticed Priss' blue bike (her personal one, not a moto-slave) in the first episode (and, to a lesser degree, in the second), before she starts using a red one.

Does anyone have any good screen captures of this bike?

From what I could see, it looks very very reminiscent of the Yamaha Morpho. I wondr if it may have been any sort of design inspiration for GK Dynamics.

Ok, so I put in some more time with the Shadow Alpha and blue Beta (Robotech Masterpiece Collection).

As before, absolutely love the Beta. Still, only complaints are the connector boom sliding out of the Beta, and the slight flimsiness of the stand.

To an earlier question, no problems with paint on the Alpha. Nothing broken. Looks great.

Got the arms to fully extend. Not sure if I'm getting the legs to fully extend. Leg posability seems a little limited.

Transforms fine now that I have the hang of it, but I can't seem to get the arms to fully close, and the lower torso to fully collapse, so that the arms can be fully collapsed in fighter mode.

I am definitely happier with this than when I first unboxed it, but still have some issues.

I doubt within this decade, unless Studio HalfEye wants to make a Legioss/Tlead kit. I wouldn't overestimate the current popularity of Mospeada. I think its just part of a current trend toward nostalgia for the 'formative' decade of a number of toy/licensed-product industry professionals in power right now. The same thing happened here in the US a few years ago, resulting in a huge swell of product from all sorts of toy & licensed product stuff from Tron to H.R. Puffnstuff, to Thundercats to SCTV. Much of it died away within a year or so. I don't want to compare Mospeada to much of that sort of stuff, but I think Mospeada in Japan has benefited from much the same sort of tide. Once those waters recede within the next 12 months, I don't think we'll see much if any new Mospeada product... or Dorvack, Orguss & numerous other series that have suddenly started receiving new licensed product development 20+ years after they originally aired.

That may well be, we'll have to wait and see.

I hope I get my Shadow Beta and Shadow Masterpiece Cyclone before that happens...

The CMs connection is a massive metal arm connecting two very light plastic toys. This means that when you put the CMs Beta in the cradle (that's another thing, it's an actual cradle for their Tread, not an arm) and pick the thing up the whole assembly slops downward. If you wanted to have the CMs Legioss and Tread together you would have to hold the cradle and probably both the legioss and Tread in place. Also, the way the cradle wraps around the tread you can't bring the Tread's legs down and angle them outward. The CMs cradle has its landing gears permanently affixed so if you're not using them they just sit there as eye sores. Also, the CMs Legioss doesn't physically connect in anyway to the Tread so it just wants to flop right out of the connection if you move it around at all whereas the Toynami Alpha butts up against the Beta so tight it won't shake left and right with normal movement (if you've got it connected right, sounds like you might still be having problems). Finally, the way the cradle attaches to the CMs display stand means you can't display it with both toys connected in fighter mode. It's the most craptastic connection that could have possibly been engineered. I think it sucks the Toynami doesn't lock the arm in the Beta, it seems like that would have been easy to do, but otherwise it's leaps and bounds better than the CMs.

Toynami on returns: I'm pretty sure you have to pay to ship it to them and they'll pay to ship it back to you.

I see what you mean. Ok, based on that, it sounds even more like I made the right choice going with Toynami, at least for what I'm looking for.

I'll see if I can get the two to connect closer together tonight. The connector not locking to the Beta though... still a big deal to me, especially considering how obvious and easy it would be.

Thanks for the input.

Yo RavenHawk was there anything broken on your alpha? How is the paint?

Nothing broken on my Alpha (hopefully nothing will break tonight when I muck around with it some more). Seems to be fine.

Paint seemed just fine everywhere, but I'll take a really close look tonight if you want.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still glad that I got the Toynami and not the CM's, if for no other reasons that the scale of the Beta relative to the Alpha, and the darker coloring. Just, still disappointed by some elements.

Have to get back to finding a blue Alpha now...

Ravenhawk, didn't you see pictures of the CMs connection? It's atrocious. You should have no problem picturing it, you should have seen pictures of it. If you haven't, go to my site!

Edit - on display stands... I'm having an issue because the stand needed for the Alpha Beta would be huge. I think I'd need to get like 10" rods on a flexidisplay stand and those would probably have too much flex so they'd need to be thicker. The stand would probably also need a four rods (if you were posing the Beta with the legs down, Alpha in fighter mode, 1 for the alpha, 1 for each leg, and 1 for the back of the Beta). I'd probably need a 10" rod for the Alpha and Beta and then like 4" rods for the legs...

Looking at your site now, at the comparison. Obviously I don't have one now, but it looks like the connector holds the Beta more firmly on the CM that the slide-in piece on the Toynami, and it doesn't look like it holds the Alpha any WORSE... what am I missing?

I don't know what we need for a display stand... maybe 4 legs joining to a smaller platform, which connects to the connector boom.

So you're saying there's no way of producing a better Alpha toy?

I think they could have, but it would've required more development time (removing the "fast" from the three choices, and possibly costing some of the "cheap").

If the Alpha was designed anywhere near as well as the Beta, I'd have almost nothing but praise.

Still don't like the connection between the two. I thought I had read that the CM's connection was even worse, though I'm having some trouble picturing that.

I just loves JT Marsh's eframe that changed into a motorcycle...

Too bad it never made it into the show.

So does any one have any affordable stronger stands that they could recommend for the Alpha/Beta combo?

Any fixes for getting the connecting boom to hold the two together better as well?

I think your problems with transformation are mostly to do with the bugginess of the design. I remember my first attempts to transform that toy back into fighter mode... it seemed like the fight of a lifetime. After I'd done it about 4 or 5 times I started to learn how I should hold it at certain points, what areas of the toy could cause problems if not alligned perfectly, etc. Just remember, if it started out that way it can get back to that way. If it's the rear landing gears that are frustrating you by not staying up you're probably not pushing them far enough forward... they actually lock into place at some point (IIRC). If your combined Alpha Beta doesn't look as tight as pictures you've seen elsewhere then you're doing something wrong.

It is the rear landing gear, like you said. I'll try what you suggested tonight. I think I've been very gentle with trying to get the arms to pull out fully and with the landing gear because I've read so many stories on here about these things breaking.

As simple as it is, you do make a good point: if it started out in fighter mode, it can get back to it. I'll try to play around with it some more tonight.

Thanks.

That's REALLY disturbing. I'd wanted a set of those mugs to actually drink out of. Now I absolutely think I'll pass...

I wouldn't worry about it. I used the non-broken one last night, and no tumors yet.

The issue is really, I THINK, about there being these more-or-less carcinogenic materials that it's made out of, not that leach into your drink. Drink out of the mug, just don't grind it up into your breakfast.

The problem is probably that the inner torso isn't collapsing together enough (which causes the 'banana' shape problem, I believe), or that the upper and lower legs aren't collapsing together enough, and are jamming up when they slide together. To secure the fighter form, you have to get the tabs on the thing's "groin" to lock into the slots behind the collapsed knees, and for the arms to lock into the little sockets on the leg surfaces.

My Rook Alpha had the same issue with the left-side leg & shoulder jamming up, so I took the Rook's left leg apart to find out what the deal was:

On the interior surface of the halves of the lower left leg (and presumably the shoulder), I found a channel where the upper leg travels, sliding with a poly-cap. One of the halves' poly cap and channel was gummed up with some stray paint or some glue (I forget which), so I had to clean it up carefully a bit with a hobby knife. To get the leg apart you have to leaver out a couple of plugs which hide the screws. It wasn't a problem on mine to do it with a fresh, sharp hobby knife blade but it did leave a tiny bit of a blemish on one. Your mileage may vary depending on how well your's is assembled. (When you put them back in, be careful with the one on the lower most area of the leg. I think its angled to fit in flush a certain way, iirc.) Its a little tricky, so be careful keeping all of your dis-assembled parts straight. I've done this sort of thing to tweak a lot of transforming toys over the year, from TF's to Yamato Valks.

I found a similar issue seems to occur with the way the bicep telescopes out of the Alpha's shoulder. But in that case I think its just that the tolerances on the joint is just universally tight in the toy's design. The shoulder is glued together, if I recall. (I'm at work now, so no handy reference). My advice is to just firmly grasp the shoulder with one hand and the uppermost portion of the bicep with the other hand, and carefully extend it as far as it will go (us a picture on-line, or compare to the other shoulder's extension), and maybe do it a couple of times to wear some play into the slider. Your concerns there are to not inadvertently damage the swing-bar and hinge that connects the arm assembly to the torso/fuselage, and to not strain or break the mid-bicep swivel joint.

Another issue you might want to be careful with is the hatches on the leg missile bays. Their joints tend to get painted closed, and can break easily (well, I had one that did) because they're a tiny snap-together part, and both the door and hinge are molded in transparent plastic and painted (probably the same tooling set as the canopy parts). Why? The transparent plastic tends to be very rigid and holds the very fine tolerances for the part through demolding rather well, but the transparent plastic also tends to be brittle and will snap easily. So many teenie parts make up this thing!

I'd venture to say that the telescoping limb elements and center torso block are the most likely source of challenges with the Legioss design. If any single one doesn't work, the whole thing is affected. That's the big difference between the Legioss and the typical Valkyrie, I think. The Valkyrie is made up of folds and hinges - rather like a piece of origami. The Legioss is made from telescoping parts and hinges - more like a photography tripod. If you've ever wrestled with a complex tripod (like a heavier Vinten or Sachler cinematography tripod and head) that's jamming up or failing to lock anywhere in its structure, you know what a huge pain-in-the-a55 it can be to set up or stow away. You can say "Oh, these sticks are crap." but you still have to get them to do their job.

Sounds like your Sterling Alpha is buggy typical of an Alpha MPC. I've had that landing gear issue on a wheel or two on my Alphas (and on a Yamato Valk or two.) Mine are usually in Soldier, Diver or 'Stalking Fighter' mode, so I haven't had the motivation to debug them of it. My suspicion is that its a poly-cap issue again. That maybe the axle pin in the strut is glued into the poly cap in a closed position, so the cap's natural elasticity wants to pull the axle and strut back to a closed position. Or alternately that the poly cap isn't giving enough resistance to keep it from folding in on itself under the weight of the jet. I'd say just buy a Flexi-Display stand for it. They take up a lot of shelf-space in jet mode. If its in the air, you can display more stuff around it!

Wow, very helpful stuff. I really appreciate it. I'm going to muck around with this over the next few days and let you know how it turns out.

I think I'm frustrated because:

1) I've wanted these since I was 9

2) These things are pretty pricey, even if limited product runs somewhat justify the cost

3) Having worked as an engineer for a decade now, from design through project management, I get frustrated when I see something produced with these kinds of issues while knowing that they COULD be remedied at the factory (just look at how nicely the Beta works)

Thanks again.

In my brief time with my Beta toy I found that speading the Alpha's feet/thrusters, recessing the "connection points" beside the Beta's missle bays, and having the Alpha cupped on the stand and then sliding the two together gets me the closest fit. Still not as perfect as the anime, but that's to be expected.

The Alpha's arms are supposed to fit into those recessed connection points and mine comes pretty darn close to it. Sadly the combined fighter doesn't look quite as cool as it does on the show

Yeah, I did spread the feet/thrusters and recess the "connection points." It's definitely clear that that is where the Alpha's arms arm supposed to fit into, but mine don't even come close to it.

Ok, so my package from Robotech.com arrived yesterday, containing a blue Beta, the Shadow Alpha, and the two Mars Barse mugs.

I didn't have much time to mess around with everything last night, but here are my initial impressions:

Mugs:

The one that didn't arrive broken is really nice, though the label on the bottom that says that California law requires them to tell me that it coontains substances which has been found to be carcinogenic really isn;t as reassuring as your might think. Guess I won't be eating that mug.

Now I have to find out whether it will be expensive enough to ship back the broken mug where I should just glue it together instead.

Alpha & Beta:

These are my first Toynami products, so some of the commments below may seem like old news to people here.

Shadow Alpha:

Very nice and heavy, feeling lots of diecast. Feels like it SHOULD be sturdy. That's pretty much it for the pros.

For the cons:

1) I can't get the arms to fully extend

2) Can't get the landing gear to stay deployed

3) Cannot get it to transform back to fighter mode. It seems like the legs/lower limb assembly just won't slide back enough to let the arms lock in with the legs without the arms having to be extended, plus the entire front of the fighter seems to be angled down strangely. Nothing really seems to lock into place to any real degree. Am I doing something wrong? Any advice?

Beta:

This thing is nice. I am very impressed. Very solid, and I LOVE the transformation. Yes, I know it's simple, but everything locks into place so nicely, and stays there. Yes, the legs are loose, but it still stands up and holds position, so it's not really more than a minor annoyance. The cockpit doesn't seem to fully close, and the gap under/behind it in fighter mode is kind of noticable, but again, not a big deal. In general, I really like this one and wish that the alpha was up to the same standards.

Alpha & Beta together:

First of all, I opened the Alpha first, and was actually surprised by how small it is. Maybe it's because it's my first time paying so much for essentially a toy, but I expected something bigger. Now, putting the Beta next to it, after I had opened the Alpha, really impressed me. The larger size is fantastic, just what I wanted to see (and what I heard the CM's were missing, which kind of sealed it for me on getting the Toynami instead).

I do have some complaints however.

1) The stand is just way too flimsy. Yes, it holds everything well, but is so weak that the GORGEOUS Alpha/Beta combo tilts and swivels around a good bit, just because of the stand flexing.

2) The connecting boom between the Alpha and Beta, both in fighter modes, doesn't lock into either one! It just slides into the Beta, but doesn't lock, no press fit or anything. It just freely slides in and out. On the Alpha, it just kind of cups the Alpha, but again, doesn't really hold onto anything. Pretty much any position but on the display stand, and the two fall apart!

3) There is a big gap between the Alpha and Beta. The Alpha doesn't slide all the way back into where the Beta has recesses to fit Alpha, so they don't really look like one larger craft, just like two separate ones barely touching in a couple spots.

Again, am I doing something wrong here?

Thanks again