Oihan

I have see all of them but II was just so weak, I tried to watch it with interest and I nearly fell asleep. After the first viewing I couldn't endure watching it a second time again and got rid of it and I wouldn't have it just for the sake of collecting it. The same plot devices from DYRL? that were used in it were just super recycled and we got a whiny hero in Hibiki, you can't tell me that using the Minmay Attack 80 years after SWI against a foe that is not Zentraedi seem kind of flawed to you? At least the people on Macross 7 had the right idea to attack conventionally and then adopt Minmay Attack-like tactics when they discovered what the Protodevlin were. Worst yet was what they did to the SDF-1, how can you just discard humanity's ark aside like that and then have it blown away? 80 years is too large of gap on top of that too. At least with the other series the scriptwriter had SK next to him for some guidance and not just take the "initiative" and make some trashy series, good thing Macross hasn't turned into what Gundam has become after Tomino left. We'd probably have the same amount of Gundam series as we do Macross if Tomino stayed onboard and didn't let anybody meddle with his creation. That's all my opinion though. Don't take offense at my opinion of trashy II. I've danced this dance before with one of my buddies.

Yes, I didn't like what happened to the SDF-1, but I thought the story was great...along with the music, characters, and animation. As for using the Minmay Attack 80 years later. From my understanding all they were really dealing with were rogue Zentraedi. They had an effective means of disorienting those Zentraedi and it was working for them for that long. If it isn't broken, why fix it? It makes perfect sense to me. It just annoys me to see someone fault II for using plot devices found in another show. ...And of course I would never take offense...it is your opinion and you are, of course, entitled to it just like everyone else. To each their own.

Edit: My apologies for going off-topic.

I think is funny how people dwell over and over again about the love triangle...

WHO Cares !!

Is true, Macross is a space opera based on love, emotions and music , whatever. But has anyone realized that M Frotier was underlying much more than that? About surviving the possible extinction of the human race. Seems that very few are omitting the bigger picture... The uncaring air Alto had for the 2 butterflies seems to have kept them in the edge enough to at least care for something. He might have been playing them both but his purpose might have been a different agenda which proved succesfull in the end...

Who cares if the love birds turn they day into a "menage a' Trois..?" to some extent seems irrelevant. Give it up...let them be...

The K-mory God already spoke...

A lot of people care. How could one not care?! Frontier essentially revolves around Alto, Sheyrl, and Ranka. I don't see how anyone could watch a show and not care what happens with it's main characters. Sure, there's a bigger picture to be seen...but when hasn't there been a bigger picture? Just because a lot of us want the triangle resolved DOESN'T mean we're ignoring or forgetting everything else that happened in Frontier. When one gets emotionally attached and invovled with a show, it's hard not to get attached to the characters and want answers. At least that's how it is for me....

Well I never expected to see what became of the Megaroad-01. I've come to terms that we won't find out. If anything, I was hoping to see what became of Shin and Sara. As for all of "Kawamori's trolls," I just took them all as nods to the previous shows...and nothing more.

Macross Frontier is truly epic; it has far exceedingly surpassed my expectations on all fronts. I'm actually quite saddened and bummed out that Frontier is over. I can only imagine what the movie will bring.

Well, all of them have their merits, except for Macross II, not to much genius behind that series.

...Have you seen any of the other Macross shows? You can't tell me that none of them have borrowed from each other. Again, II uses a lot of the same plot DEVICES as DYRL?...but it's a completely DIFFERENT story.

Does no one else see that? Does no one else see any of the similarities between SDF Macross and Macross Frontier? So why rag on Macross II?

As much as I love II...nothing could ever top SDF Macross (TV) in my opinion. It was Macross TV that made me fall in love with the series.

1. SDF Macross

2. Macross II

3. Macross DYRL?

4. Macross Frontier

5. Macross Plus

6. Macross Zero

7. Macross Flashback 2012

8. Macross 7

That's how I rank them.

Since i'm too used to harem anime (urgh...i shouldn't be) i don't really mind the triangle unresolved too. But I am more annoyed by the shipper wars especially the sheryl ones who insist alto has made his choice Sheryl....when its obvious he hasn't.

I guess I'm one of your "Sheyrl shippers" that you speak of. What do you make of what happened in episode 24 between Sheyrl and Alto then? Sure there's no clear confession of love from him, but to me the signs point to Sheryl more so than they do for Ranka.

Did you watch the episode, Oihan?

Haha, of course! I thought episode 24 did a great job of leading up to what happened in episode 25. Grace got what was coming to her, as did Leon. We got to see who Bilrer was hoping to meet. Ranka finally remembered who she was towards the end of the series. All we really didn't get was a definitive answer in regards to the love triangle. What other plots am I missing? Sure, they could have gone a little more in depth with some of the stuff...but it is what it is. I just wish they had let us know who Alto chose.

I too just got a PS3. My PSN ID is Ashmedae

I'd say what I really think about your post, but I'd get banned.

Every

single

argument

i've

posted

was

seperate

from

the

triangle.

Can you guys not get it? Hello? Read what I'm freaking typing if you're capable of it. My complaints about this episode had NOTHING to do with the triangle, and everything to do with the execution, and the sloppy way they tied all the sub-plots up in 20 minutes, when they should have just extended the story for a 2nd season. God you guys are clueless.

This episode was a trainwreck. After three watches of it, I feel like I should be hitting some serious drugs to finish me off.

Once again. It wasn't about the lack of resolve on the love triangle. Get it? Mecha pron to the max, but slashing up a story, does not make for a good ending.

I honestly don't see how everything was rushed, as you purport/imply. Please elaborate on how these sub-plots were sloppily tied together.

i understand japanese, and i am really really sure it was a harem ending. the part that you're referring to, nothing was really mentioned about the love triangle. it was more like cheesy inspirational dialogue. sheryl: "i can't go on any longer. you gotta take my place ranka!" ranka: "imma slap you for tryin to give up! remember alto and i wouldn't be where we're at if it weren't for you!" alto: "yeah sheryl! you and ranka are my wings!"

Hmmm, thanks for clarifying that scene for me. I'm still not convinced it was a harem ending though. The scene I was talking about in episode 24 has me thinking otherwise.

...How many times has Alto kissed Ranka and Sheyrl? Ranka once, Sheyrl twice? ...Without a definitive answer from the creators...I'm thinking Alto chose Sheryl. I say that because of what happened in episode 24, and because of everything else that has happened throughout Frontier. I would elaborate more....

So, did Alto choose Sheryl or not? In episode 24 I was given the impression that Alto had chosen Sheryl. Going off Lunar's subs, Alto said "A person can't fly alone. He mustn't fly alone. Now that I understand that...." Then Sheryl makes a statement about how dense he is and that they should stop pretending to be lovers.... Alto reacts as if he were going to correct Sheryl...then the kiss happens. We all know Sheyrl's feelings for Alto...so I don't think she'd just step aside when Alto seems to have shown some feelings for her in the past. I'd think that Sheryl would 'fight' (for lack of better wording) for Alto's love...to the end. It seemed to me that Sheyrl knew were Alto's feelings were and was okay with them...telling Alto to go save Ranka. To me it seems Alto chose Sheyrl.

Now, I don't know how to speak Japanese...and there aren't any subtitled versions of episode 25 out yet. But going off just what I saw...I'm a little confused. It's at about 11 mins and 30 seconds that I'm confused as to where the triangle is going. I don't know if Sheyrl was conceding to Ranka because she knew she was going to die or what was really going on there. I keep reading that it's a harem ending...but are we all really sure? I wish I could understand Japanese! I'm taking a class to learn it...but I'm nowhere near being able to understand it like that! I wish a sub would come out already!

Moreover, I love the nod to Macross II! Sheyrl, the "emulator" for the NUNS; Ranka, the "emulator" for the Vajra (at first).

Edit: Grammar

...nvm.

Why do I not hear any mention of Mikimoto? You guys act like he doesn't exist. Without him, we wouldn't have had the characters for the original Macross.

My sentiments exactly! Just because Kawamori Shoji isn't envolved doesn't make it any less Macross or canon.

Edit: Is it really a common misconception that the image projected is Minmay? I never thought the image of that woman was Minmay...I mean it doesn't even look like Minmay! Maybe if it were a Minmay song they were playing, then I'd probably think it was Minmay. If anything, when I first saw II I thought the image of that woman was the new idol.

I re-watched it completely yesterday, and that's why I revived the thread. Last time I saw it was several years ago (man, I had to take out my old VHSs and VCR!!! ), so I was curious and I paid special attention to dialogue and events to see if there was anything that could exclude the Macross II story from the actual continuity. Well, there wasn't.

It all felt perfectly fitting.

More fitting than ever, to be sincere. NUNS and the military being "outdated" (media control, appearance over real streaght, etc, all the things we began to see in the original Macross, and after that in M7 and now Frontier), the Macross Cannons/Macross Quarter, advance Valkyries with armor packs and drones, etc. The list could go on.

It is also interesting to note that at some point Ishtar confirms that the Marduke are a product of protoculture, making them a plausible part of the big picture (Ingues may very well be either a rogue Bodol-type fortress gone mad or - along with the Marduke and enslaved zentradi - a member of the infamous Supervision Army - The SDF1, called the Alus, is said to be a legendary Marduk ship, in fact).

But let's get back on track. I agree with DestroidDefender: nothing done or said during the episodes denies the existence of several worlds and colonization fleets nor any event from M7, Plus or Frontier. Nothing at all. There's even more to it: Isamu in Plus fights against a "possessed SDF1 which is clearly used as a sort of UN Headquarters. In MII the SDF1 is not used anymore but well kept, like a monument. It makes sense that after the Sharon Apple incident (the last time in a Macross production where Earth appears) the Spacy decided to decommission it.

To sum up: I liked it much more after all these years (mind you, I liked it even the first time, even if the animation of the first half of ep.6 is not good at all). Why did I enjoy it so much now? Because it felt absolutely Macross and, most of all, it felt wholly part of the big Macross saga.

Everyone is free to discard it as "non canon", but as a matter of fact, it shouldn't.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the SDF4 is not the Megaroad 03. Strangely enough, the Megaroad 03 doesn't appear in the much debated opening scene (ep1) of Frontier. Coincidence? So your guess is as good as mine or anyone else. Maybe the Megaroad 03 found an inhabitable planet and the SDF4 was then used as an escort ship for a Science convoy in deep space. Who knows?

There's a whole thread devoted to this thing, let's keep the SDF4 argument in the place where it belongs.

Great post! I agree with a lot of the points you've made...which I think all are pretty solid. It'd be nice if it was recognized once again as canon. One could even consider it an ending to the Macross series, with the way the Macross is destroyed.

As for relying on the Minmay Attack. Even in Frontier they were relying on Ranka to sing...so I don't see how relying on the Minmay Attack, 80 years after SDF Macross took place, is not plausible.

[Fanboy]Macross II 0wnz![/Fanboy]

You're quite right. What makes it non-canon is Kawamori and Studio Nue denouncing it as non-canon

And right you are. =(

You know...now that I think about it. I'd love it if they expanded on the Macross II universe!

Then it would become non-canon like Macross II.

Just because Kawamori wasn't involved doesn't make Macross II non-canon (even though it is non-canon).

Edit: I have no idea where Macross will go from here. After Zero I had an idea that Frontier was going to involve elements from Zero...but now? I guess we'll have to wait for the ending. I'd definitely would love to see more Macross though.

Yes. Yes they do.

Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes anyone?

Yeah, we don't want to go there...

It wasn't THAT bad. I don't mind remakes as long as they're done right. I've always wanted to see SDFM re-animated (as much as I love the show as is). It'd be nice to see it with updated animation. I mean...keep the original audio...but bring back Haruhiko Mikimoto, Kazutaka Miyatake, and Shoji Kawamori (of course) and re-animate it! Could you guys imagine Frontier/Zero quality animation with the SDFM story? *drools*

A friend of mine told me that, regardless of which model one may have, they can download the emulation software from the PS Store and play PS2 games. Is this true? Could someone please confirm this for me? I'm not having much luck with Google. ...Maybe I'm just using the wrong keywords. Anyway, thanks in advance!

I was looking at the 60 GB models on Amazon and Good Lord are they expensive.... Anywhere from $700 to $1300 brand new! The 60 GB models have the hardware emulation while the 80 GB models have the software emulation...right? I'm a little worried about compatibility issues if I were to go with the 80 GB model....

Edit: I just found out that only certain 80 GB models are backward compatible. I guess I need to find myself a MGS bundle....

Edit #2: Does anyone know how long the MGS bundles will be sold?

Aaron Eckhart Discusses the Future of Harvey Dent

HE'S DEAD. MOVE ALONG.

Haha. Thank you Duke Togo!

I see you bought the intel/ms kool-aid . Software slow and buggy? Just buy a better machine!

Lol, but a better machine does help! At work I use a 2 GHz P4 machine with 1 GB of DDR PC-2100 RAM and I notice a significant difference between it and my Core 2 Duo E6420 @ 2.8 GHz with 2 GB of DDR2 PC2-6400 RAM at home. Maybe it's just the extra gig of RAM...and or the extra core...but I see a noticeable difference in load times and everything. ...My work machine is even less cluttered than my home machine. But I digress...I'll continue to enjoy my kool-aid.

which is why I got a PS3 for my blu-ray player and not a dedicated machine.

Is that issue non-existent with the PS3s? I know the PS3s are said to have a good Blu-player, but I didn't know loading times weren't an issue with them. That makes the PS3 all the more enticing then. ...Though, one thing I have noticed about the PS3s is that they don't do too great of a job upscaling 480p content. I could live with that if the load times, with BR discs, are non-existent.

I beleive Dent survived. Yea, yeah the scrips says he broke his neck, but not everything from the script is brought over to the movie. The scene was plenty ambiguous. There was no confirmation of Dent's death from either Batman or Gordon. Gordon could have easily said "Harvey's prosecution died with HIM", but instead e said "Harvey's prosecution dies wit HIS REPUTATION".

They made a point in the movie to show how someone falling from that small height can survive. If they wanted to confirm he was dead, they should've used a higher place. Maroni landed on his feet and broke his ankles. Dent, we don't know how he fell.

Gordon could have faked his death, he faked his death in the very same film. A memorial service in the same movie for Loeb was held and you can see his casket. In Harvey's memorial, we only get a picture, no casket. His fate was purposefully left ambiguous so they could easily bring him back if needed. Nolan also said that he didn't like killing off villains and the original plan was to have Two Face as the villain in the third.

Also, it would be perfect sense for Two-Face to be both "died as a hero" and "lived long enough to become the villain". He is not one but both. They could have very well stuffed him in Arkham in hopes of rehabilitating him.

I saw The Dark Knight again last night. ...Such an amazing film...!

I've been wondering the same about Havery...if he really did die or not. What gets me though is why couldn't they place those killings, by Two-Face, on the Joker rather than on Batman? Harvey still would have 'died' a hero...the Joker would have got was coming to him still...and Batman would still come across as the good guy. I mean...with what the Joker has done...how would tacking on a few more deaths do any harm? I honestly don't see how anyone would question it either.

Got invited to the Home Beta. It's pretty cool, and I can see it being a great place to find NEW people(not on your friends list) to play games. I opnly spent around an hour with it so far, but it does have a lot of potential for those who like that sorta thing. Best of all would be clan and guild type meetings to discuss things such as has been discussed before. One thing....a lot of the things your avatar can do are...gay. Anyone who sees the bow and spin will surely laugh. Then bust out a robot dance with a bubble machine and get weird looks.

On another note, I saw the Greatest Hits of Resistance and Assassins Creed in Wally world today. The AC had the red box (it's not translucent like the HD DVD ones..it's a solid dark red) but the resistance ones had just a new slip cover with the red at the top. Not sure which looked better.

I've been meaning to get a PS3...mainly for Blu-ray. My problem is that I want a PS3 that is backwards compatible...and I think my time is running out on getting one that is backwards compatible. I just wish the price would drop enough so that I could pull the trigger!

There isn't a single game for the PS3 (except for maybe MGS4) that interests me.... That's another thing that's keeping me from buying a PS3 now.... I can only hope and pray for a Macross game that comes to the PS3. Then I'd feel like I was getting more bang for my buck.

Am the only one annoyed by the load times with Blu-ray? I don't EVER recall having a load time with a HD-DVD disc. >_> (At least with all of the HD-DVDs I've viewed there wasn't a load time.) That was partially a reason why I was rooting for HD-DVD to win. One would think in this day and age that there wouldn't be any freakin' loading times to watch a movie...with all of the current technology out there. I've had one Blu-ray disc that refused to play whatsoever...all it wanted to do was load whatever the hell it was trying to load. I could understand if it was loading a firmware update or something of the likes...but every time with every disc?!

Edit: Grammar