Aegis!

You gundam people are telling me a puny MS unit could hold a battle against a UN Spacy aircraft ? yeah right Any MS would be simply cannon fodder against something like the X-9 Ghost (the YF-21 itself had difficulties beating it and a MS would be made scrap metal by the 21 ). Worse yet , a MS wouldn´t even beat a VA-14 For those that consider MS to have an advantage in regards to payload , then I should remind you of the VF-11 Full Armour , the VA-14 , the Konig mosnter , and the list goes on and on...

yep , that´s the general consent here , or at least what the majority believes (me included). The 0 designation may be just becuase the VF-0 wasn´t supposed to be released (in fact it wasn´t supposed to be released in any form , is just a testbed ) before the VF-1 , hence they named it Zero , otherwise they would´ve had to change the VF-1 designation to something like VF-2 , and since SDF macross was released first and we all already know the VF-1 as VF-1 , it would be stupid to do such thing , so they just named it VF-0. Yes , the VF-1 was already in production during M0 events , mass production begins on November 2007 , while M0 events are set on September 2008 onwards (until SW1). I also think of it as similar to the SuperNova project yeah , as unbelievable as it is the VF-0 is even larger than the supernova AVFs -the YF-21 is just a meter larger than the VF-0 -. (hate to quote the compendium but here I go <_< ) :

I thought Kawamori had planned M0 long before Lukas ever came out with all the prequel trend. It wouldn´t suprise me at all since he planned M+ years before it came out ( 1985 to be precise , from the advanced valkyrie series ). We haven´t seen the VF-1 in M0 yet , so we don´t really know how it will look like by today standards (we just know how the VF-1 looks from 20 years ago). the only explanation within the Macross universe I could find is that the VF-1 is a mass production aircraft while the 0 is a limited release experimental aircraft (like the US and british X-35 variants).

Here we go again. Why reserve all of your angst for the 1/48 Valks? Why not direct any of it at the 1/60 Monster or 1/60 Qrau? Both of those toys will be larger than any 1/48 Valk. After all, according to you, it's the size and not the scale that matters... So let's be consistent here. Let's get rid of the 1/60 Qrau and Monster, too. After all, how's a destroid with limited appeal the size of a coffee table and costing upwards of 400 dollars any more "practical" than a 1/48 VF-22? So why not campaign against these items? Yet everytime the 1/48 Valks are mentioned, we're treated to the same discourse. Or does it have something to do with a fear that somehow 1/48 Valks will cut into the possibility of *you* getting what *you* want? So, to be perfectly fair, and perfectly consistent... let's campaign against the 1/60 Qrau and Monster too, agreed? After all, these two products are more likely than any 1/48 in seeing the light of day at this point. Either way, I doubt Yamato will get rid of the 1/60 or 1/72 line. You'll get what you want. It's already in the plans and in the works. I don't see the need for you to campaign against us getting what we want. Once again, we don't piss on your parade, so please stop pissing on ours. -Al Oh , don´t get me wrong , I just don´t complain about the Q-rau or Monster cause I know those (or at least the Monster) will have pretty limited releases and will not take all of Yamato´s resources like an entire 1/48 M+ or M0 line would do. I´m not agaisnt the idea of having big and detailed M+ valks at all , I´m just against the idea of Yamato focusing all of their attention and resources towards one single line like 1/48 M+valks , when such line will most possibly be limited to less than a third of all consumers. I call that Elitism. Why have big and expensive toys when you can have the same detail on smaller and cheaper toys ? If the 1/60 M+/M0 valks don´t satisfy my requirements then I´ll complain about them , but if they achieve what they promess then I´ll be satisfied. I just don´t see why should we campaing so fiercely like 1/48 valks when having Big and expensive toys isn´t a necesity. If Yamato releases cheap as well as more detailed expensive versions , I´ll buy those detailed and expensive versions without a doubt and won´t even bother with the cheaper versions. but if those expensive versions are in 1/48 I´ll probably pass on the offer , I could easily afford them but the sole inconvinience of having such a big and cumbersome toy would just ruin the fun of having such a ¨masterpiece¨. In the other hand if Yamato decides to put all their efforts into the quality of 1/60 M+ toys so to achieve the maximun level of detail on them I´d happily buy them , otherwise I´ll buy whatever has the best sculpt. I personally don´t care about scales , just the level of playability vs cost of my toys , If I´m gonna pay more for something that´s too big and has no playability then I wouldn´t even concider buying it. As I said , I´m not against having a ¨Perfect¨ M+ toy line , I personally wouldn´t buy the cheaper alternative , but 1/48 scale is too much for all the reasons mentioned.

Because Kawamori wanted to make this Macross series look like modern aircraft instead of 80s looking aircraft (you know , the VF-1 is from those times ). The flight suits are more realistic so the aircraft followed this trend , hence the ¨modern look¨.

1/72 would be bigger than the M+ 1/72 toys (and 1/60 VF-1) , and a 1/60 version would be probably as big as the current 1/48 VF-1 toys , so if you like the 1/48 VF-1 line I would say you´re better off having 1/60 versions. Those would have just as much detail as the VF-1s and be just as good (specially since CAD/CAM is being used ). See this is what people don´t understand ; They think of 1/60 is gonna be just like the 1/60 VF-1s , same crappyness , same size , same lack of detail , etc ... It won´t be that way , for starters , those toys are gonna be a lot larger than 1/60 VF-1s and just as detailed as current 1/48 vf-1s (CAD/CAM). in this regard it would be something like : 1/72 = current 1/60s 1/60 = current 1/48s i.e. same level of detail , articulations , engineering masterpieces , etc.. 1/48 = we´ve just passed throug the barrier of coolness. This is no longer practical , uber detailed or anything , this is just a pile of plastic molded in the shape of a valk. Too big , too heavy ,too expensive (for us & yamato) and possibly with a lot more QC issues than thew VF-1s (all those small details would be ignored since they´re too many). and un-trasnformable.

I totally agree with that notion Graham , 1/48 M+ valks wouldn´t even make good display pieces (yeah nice to look at but not cost effective at all , and there wouldn´t be much more detail than what we´ve got today i.e. no better than current 1/48 line ) let alone good toys (people tend to forget we´re talking about tranforming toys here). Yamato certainly wouldn´t be as stupid (financially speaking) to waste so much materials and labour force in such enorumously unpractical toys , just imagine what the manufacturing expenditures would be... I say it´s not only unconvinient for us , it´s not convinient for Yamato either , it´s just too much of a risk. I would bet my 1J that not even the 30% of Yamato consumers today would be able to buy enough of these toys make a profit for Yamato to produce such toys , is simply unjustifiable from a cost vs Profit point of view. You said it yourself , LOTS of people buy GUNDAM kits. Yamato ain´t as big and resourceful as Bandai is to spend so much time/money/resources to produce such toys and still make a profit and Macross isn´t as succesful (marketing wise) to attract as many consumers as Gundam is (any gundam product is a certain succes with few exceptions) to justify such expending. At least I´m not alone here. I can understand all this 1/48 fever that seems to rule over everyone on the forums since the 1/48 VF-1 toys are just wonderful but I can´t understand that people expect these toys to be just like their current VF-1 toys, they think that because they would be big they´re gonna be incredebly detailed and with no QC issues present or that they´ll be wonderful to play or even display but this ain´t gonna happen. If you thought the 1/48 had almost no die-cast then don´t expect these ones to have any at all , they´ll just be cheap plastic toys (the plastic will be cheap for lower manufacturing costs, not the toy ) with cumbersome articulations (weight) and almost no playability , in other words forget about transforming your precious $300 overly big YF-21/19 toy (whatever mode they come in they´ll possibly stay that way).

Yeah , and that was like what ? 10 months ago ? I hope Yamato hasn´t encountered any problem since then (like Bandai wanting to milk the newer series or feasibility of the design ) and that they´re investing important working hours to improve this toy because they´re really overdue. I hope Yamato is clear about their plans for their M0 license cause I wouldn´t want to find out later on that they plan on releasing a Perfect version (ala 1/60 and 1/48), I´m not against the idea of having the defeinitive VF-0 toy , on the contrary , I would like to know their plans from the beggining so to invest in the perfect versions and pass on the crappy ones. If they release the perfect version from the beginning though (it doesn´t have to be 1/48 guys , keep in mind the VF-0 is larger than the M+ valks)then BRING THEM ON !!! But if they don´t , then that´s another year of waiting for me.

edited for security reasons

So they always had planned to release the 1J <_< I hope that YF-21 is in 1/60 scale or something

yeah , they might not be attractive as DYRL? but at least they do the job and aren´t gay looking like those of Yukikaze (which have some originality but I swear to god they have no grace at all). This characters might be neutral but they definitively are good enough for Macross. yeah , that was due to Kawamori´s lack of interest on the franchise during that time , it would certainly help if we got a series every 3 years or so , but at this point on history I´m satisfied with the level of quality the production team has achieved in all axisting productions , specially with M0. I agree , blind fanatism is just as stupid as irrelevant bitching. At this stage of production of the OVAs I have to say I like M0 quite a bit , in fact I would dare to say I appreciate it as much as Macross Plus and DYRL? ; but I feel there´re points open to improvement just as M+ (character design , too much tecno/trance , lack of background story for X-9 , lack of deep character evolution along the story -except for Guld- ) or DYRL (continuity mess , resumed plot , etc..). Jesus , why do you complain about something that hasn´t even happened ? where do you get the idea Mao is gonna be involved in some sort of FS ? Did you expect Sara to bath with her clothes on ? that´s one wierd habit. You people forget M0 is set in a isolated island , based in similar cultures I would assume Sara was doing a purification ritual , and if that´s right then it would be pretty common not to wear clothes. Now, if Shin got hot because he saw her privates then that´s another thing.

I wonder if all those 53 people voted for the VF-1 becuase they really like it or because they´re just following the herd , or maybe they just don´t know any other valkyrie

Because Destroids haven´t got the mobility of a valkyrie with our without GBP , and the same could be said the other way around i.e. the GBP hasn´t got the firepower of the Destroid series , it´s just there for assistance against other more versatile mechas (like the Q-Rau or SV-51 ...). edited: forgot to add comments. Of course they´ll look familiar , it´s been less than a year since the last AC game came out and you expect Kawamori to suddenly change his style back to what it looked like 20 years ago ? I wouldn´t expect him to do such thing. Of course young lads won´t give a sh*t about Macross , they hardly know it. I personally am happy that Macross isn´t aimed at mindless young kids and that we don´t get a new series every single year that passes by like Gundam solely to satisfy that audience , at least that keeps the quality up. I wish we had more Macross 7 bash threads more often , at least those kept the nitpickers busy for a while instead of bashing every possible detail they can come up with for whatever new thing is released. Every time a new Episode comes out everyone is like : OMG ; OMF !!! ; HOLY MACARONI !! that was an awesome episode ; can´t believe this is so beautiful...bla bla bla , yada yada yada... and then the double standard comes out of the closet when all those people start to nitpick about some irrelevant crap. I could understand why people would bitch about M7 , I myself didn´t like some aspects of it , but now that we at last get a decent series again after M+ , everyone jumps on the ¨bashing-van wagon¨ now that they got bored of bitching about M7...that´s just pitiful really. Sorry for that rant but I don´t like when this sort of things start to happen.

And here we go again... What´s all this fascination with 1/48 scale for everything ? not everything is gonna be good because it´s big ,specially a 1/48 M0 or M+ valk. THEY WOULD NOT BE THE SAME AS YOUR 1/48 VF-1s they would double its size and the ammount of die-cast would be minimal , moreover the toy itslef would be too cumbersome to even transform , and as a display piece it wouldn´t have anymore detail than what Yamato can actually do with their VF-1s , and for that price it wouldn´t sell well , hell , if the curent VF-1 toys are limited collection item the M0 or M+ toys will be even more limited within that market. just as an example of th size of this things : do people realise that a 1/48 YF-21´s nosecone would be just as big as an entire 1/72 YF-21 toy ? I certainly wouldn´t buy such a big and expensive monstrosity. Let´s not talk about the M0 valks , those even bigger

WTF are you talking about ? The only bit of Fan Service shown so far was during Sara´s ritual , and for that matter that isn´t any worse than Minmay Shower scene in the original series , which to my knowledge is supposed to be the only series no one dares to talk BS about. Mao hasn´t even got a real relevance within M0 (yet) and you expect Kawamori san to use her for FS ? I would like to know what you´re smoking cause it seems to cause a bit of Paranoia. You expect every new character designer that works in a Macross series to copy Mikimoto´s work so you can have a badly animated 20 years old design being used in a 2003 OVA series ? I agree that Mikimoto´s involvement in a new Macross production would be more than welcome but if it´s only to recreate something they did 20 years ago then I say spare the man´´s time let him do something more relevant , for him and for us as well. Face it , Macross can have grace even without Mikimoto and that was comfirmed by M+ a long time ago , I really don´t know where this elitist approach to macross character designers comes from. Are all those people gonna freak out everytime Mikimoto doesn´t participate in a Macross series from now on ? that´s just ridiculous.

mmmm , that would be nice , they could also release some Low-vis-ish looking pilots as well. Maybe even a petit Cola machine Official Yamato Accessory kits would sell enourmously well , particularly if they include some blank pilot sculpts and things like that. Edit: I just remembered that Yamato was planing on releasing a Launch Arm , what happened to that project Graham ? would it be possible for Yamato to include the accessory kits with it ?

Woohooo , Gundam/Mario Crossover

Actually , that´s a good idea. Anyone with plans on doing a Millia VF-0 custom ? or Hikaru VF-9 ? Maybe a Low vis VF-5000

I thought it would be nice to have a thread about what customs are you keen on doing with non VF-1 valks. For example , once the VF-0 or SV-51 toys are released would you plan on doing a custom color scheme or other customisation job to them ? if so , what would you do ? All non- VF-1 valks are included (VF-5000 , VF-14 , VF-4 , VF-0 , VF-9 , X-9 , etc...) just post the TWO valks you would want the most to make a custom with. I personally would want to have a VF-5000 so to make a VF-0D-ish kinda colour scheme and a VF-14 to make a custom black (70% of valk) & orange (random stripes and patterns ). Having those 2 valks would make me a really happy man , and being able to make my own custom of a VF-5000 or 14 would make me even happier. Now , what do you plan doing ?

Did we ? I´ve been checking the boards almost everyday and I don´t remeber a thread about the cover art of Ep.3 , though I do remember we had an extensive thread about some artwork/pics of Ep.3 , but not the cover itself. If I´´m wrong though then I apologise myself .

OK , this cover has officially convinced me that I ought to have a VF-0 toy I think it looks a lot better than Ep.2 cover , it has the same feeling as Ep.1 cover which to my tastes was very nice. The VF-0S looks so menacing. Anyway , I belive there´re some new pics of Ep.3 going around the net but haven´t found them (actually I did but they were taken down ) , so if someone finds them please post them here. Cheers

OK , so we´re all happy and satisfied because we´re able to buy valkyries toys now , but has anyone thought of what will happen once the SDF, M0 or M+ (whatever scale ) lines are done ? What will happen once they milk all the renowned valks (YF-19 , 22, VF-1 and VF-0 )? will they stop there ? will they make M7 toys ? nope , Bandai will probably retain/renew their license after it expires (it depends on BW but when Bandai Visual is in charge of one of BW´s productions I doubt they´ll disagree with the big B ). VF-X2 ? they could but as said by everyone none of those valks are profitable M3 ? hell , if VF-X2 wasn´t good enough what would make them do M3 valks ? So we (Yamato and us) are left with nothing. They´ll stop making Macross toys after M0/M+ and they won´t make anymore profits from the franchise , meanwhile we won´t have VF-4s , VF-5000s , VF-14s or FA VF-11s <_< Pardon me if I don´t agree with the idea that non-VF-1 toys aren´t profitable but I seriously don´t see the logic on leaving their Macross line halfway , specially after all the profits they´ve made with the VF-1 and M+ toys (and possibly M0 ).

And isn´t that beautiful. That´s why humans in Gundam are rather lame in comparison to what humanity achieved in Macross.

Ahem...It´s true that no other valk has come close to the VF-1 in regards to variants but I think it´s fairly safe to say that the VF-5000 is profitable : -VF-5000B (VF-X2 or MP:GE scheme) - VF-5000 Millia/Max custom (Macross M3) - VF-5000 double seater - VF-5000 FP version That seems a lot more than what they made for their Macross Plus license , I mean , if the M+ toys were profitable (they even made FP version and re-sculpted the 19 )then the VF-5000 will make them rich . And yes , they can do it , we know they have the VF-X2 and M+ license so Bandai´s M7 license isn´t an issue here , otherwise they wouldn´t have released the VF-19A. And even if they don´t release all those variants they can release it under the same circumstances as the Low vis or the YF-19 (both of which recieved special treatment regardless of their cost to the company ) , After all the profit they´ ve made with the VF-1 I would expect them to allow themselves to give us something new as the VF-5000. Furthermore , their upcoming M0 will be pretty much the same as the VF-1 line (in terms of getting the most out of their molds) so that should guarantee the release of new valks (they make profit , they invest that money in new toys ). Of course I´m not expecting Yamato to release a VF-5000 anytime soon , but it would be pretty disappointing if they didn´t continue their Macross line after M0. Afterall , the profit made from the M+ toys was invested on the 1/60s and that into the 1/48 which in turn I´m assuming will go into M0 but after that what are they gonna do ? more VF-1s ? hell no , they need to meet the consumer expectations and after producing all possible VF-1/0 variants people will be , to say the least , satisfied and eager for new things (if not this thread would exist).

yeah , the YF-21 has so much VF-1 references into its design I can´t believe Kawamori san tried to convince us it was a new valkyrie , not to mention the Neo Glaug , that cheap copy isn´t even worth mentioning ...oh , and the X-9 Ghost , jesus christ , that thing even had the UN emblem ...