Knightdramon

...sigh...why is it that macross fans must always diss on TF products when things get tight?

I am a fan and collector of both macross and TFs. I appreciate each of them for their own unique take they bring on my shelves and life as a series. Why is it so hard to get past the elitism and call it a day?

For better or worse, Macross designs [not figures, not yet] are the works of just one person, and this unique person puts more emphasis on them being transforming airplanes rather than transforming robots.

The lack of numbers in the fanbase, wordwide, means there's a prominent lack of low-end merchandise for this franchise. Conversely, high end merchandise is prevalent [...relatively] and each of the TWO companies at the moment, tries hard to emulate what's on paper.

Admittedly, bandai is doing a better job with the frontier stuff because they were designed from the get-go to be fully transformable like this. The earlier designs [like M7] use too much anime-magic. People who see the lineart of, say, the VF17 side to side with the toy and think it's 100% accurate are fooling themselves. One way or another, the VF17 is inaccurate in every mode when compared to the lineart.

Furthermore, the -only- VF1 figure that transforms the way it is supposed to, based on the holly lineart, is the more recent bandai kit, which came out 30 or so years late into the franchise. So how about we tone it down a little with the elitism about lineart and accuracy and all that when 50 billion VF1 toys and model kits later, it took 30 years to produce a somewhat fragile accurate model?

Transformers, on the other hand, rarely strive to be collector-oriented in their releases. And because the G1 cartoon was guilty as well of using "anime" magic to transform and translate most toys into characters, it's a similar case of compromises being made in both modes for the final product to come out.

Furthermore, unlike Macross, there is more than 1 designer working on things at the moment and there are definitely more designs coming out per year. -Arguably-, Macross has like 50 different mecha designs? Maybe I'm saying a lot, but I'm counting things like the VF22 and the YF21 as different designs. Transformers Prime, which only lasted for like 3 years, had more designs than that out, counting toy designs as well. So yeah, there's quite a difference of quality and quantity in those two franchises.

TF toys are just that---toys designed to appeal to kids who are drawn to a franchise of robots at war with each other. Some of the toys are taken more seriously than others [MP figures, for instance], but it's still toys for children. Revolved around a franchise of war between robots. Macross figures are high-end toys designed to appeal to more or less adults, revolved around a show which...puts very little emphasis on the robot aspect.

I recently watched Macross [original series] with my sister [a near complete stranger to the franchise]. She said that initially she thought it was a show about mecha, but it really wasn't at all. The mecha are just...there, rarely used as a medium to tell the story.

So, to sum up...different goals, different options, different audiences, different numbers in fanbases...can we all get along now?

Wow, cool...any proxy for these? Completely new to japanese auction sites...

BUMP...anybody?

Just curious. I can see why buying three of them [ridiculous as that is, but still] be ok if you want to display them in their different modes...but buying 3 and never opening them?

-EXTREMELY- busy job aside, why man, why? Is there a flap on the VF25 boxes? If not, even more the reason, why man, why?

Little help here?

I'm THIS close to getting this one [still available everywhere].

It does have all the extra side cover things the last Yamato release has, right?

I'm kind of turned off by the bright[er] white colour though; do you see these yellowing in the future more easily than the old Yamato ones?

Ah decisions, decisions...

Still available, got one. Worst case scenario I'll cancel later on. Wanted a VF17D but at that price I can't say no to how the YF29 looks

Hello all!!

Onto the specifics---downtime from transformers, time to look at some macross purchases.

I'm in "need" of

VF17D with fast packs. Can be the bundle release, can be the separate ones, can even be a standalone VF17D. Don't mind if it's opened as long as all joints are still tight and there's no stickers. If you have applied some stickers, let me know regardless.

VF1S Roy with fast-strike parts. Just to clarify, I'm looking for this release. Not the bright white Arcadia one. Would prefer an unopened, unstickered one. Fast packs set can be separate, I don't mind. FP MUST be unstickered and with sticker sheet provided.

Onto the payment/shipping specifics

You MUST be able to ship to Europe. Specifically, UK. If not, please do not bother.

You MUST be able to accept Paypal as payment. I don't have access to anything else, sorry.

Lastly, be reasonable with your prices. I've been in the fandom a long time to know how to shop around. If know where those two valks are available and the prices they usually fetch.

Since funds are tight, I won't be able to purchase both valks and both fast pack sets at the same time, so I will prioritize offers.

Thanks for looking!

For the ones who still have a[ny] VF0 in their collections...

Does it look like a brand new mould, or is the chest/back area and the legs the same from the old VF0 toys?

Eagerly anticipating this!

Out of curiosity, how stupidly cheap we're you able to attain that beauty?

Um...something like 14.000 yen shipped EMS or something?

Which, admittedly, now it's not a huge discount considering this is the 19S' regular price more or less, but in August 2012 that was quite a bargain. Actually July, I received it on 1st of August.

From all the valks in my 3rd collection reset, I think I only got the VF1S Max for retail. All the rest were after a substantial discount each.

I've read it somewhere else as well...do you guys think that Bandai/any other company in their shoes...

Is losing money from the inflated aftersales?

Why? Or rather, HOW?

Bandai/X company actually makes all the money they would, from such a release, when the retailers buy their product and it appears on stock.

I'm pretty sure there's a cost/profit ratio for each run, and Bandai's "account" is always on + profit from these, otherwise they wouldn't produce them.

The over-inflated prices are mostly artificial, you know that, right guys? The VF17D with FP has been out for more than a year. Reviews are well out now, most people know the ups and downs before handling it.

It's not like there's a standard influx of people who have clicked "buy now" at 380-500 USD and the rest followed suit.

I'm almost certain Bandai tries actively to NOT overflow e-tailers with these [remember how 6 years back, you could buy almost any SOC from HLJ, and at one point they all went at -50% sale?].

In a way, yes. Almost halfway, or 1/4th of the way through, but relative.

I got the VF19S because I found it for stupidly cheap on mandarake. I received it on possibly the worst and most stressed out day of my life. And I was awed at how good the figure was. How good a TOY it was, with all the ratchets and stiff joints and locking points, that was still an adult collectible figure.

Being like, one of the 3 guys in the fandom that actually likes Macross 7 [possibly my favourite, or second favourite Macross show], I knew that I had to get Basara's valk.

But with the exception of SDFM, all the hero valks come with a sister unit

VF19Kai's sister unit was the VF17D...I got the VF17S on sale and was not happy with it at all.

BUT...far fetched...BUT...

YF19 is getting remade in a fantastic figure. *IF the YF21 gets a remake as well, we can expect the VF22S valkyries.

Which means, Gamlin's VF22S with Basara's VF19P Zola...on a display at my place...

Macross satisfaction---100%

Yup, remembered now, saw the video from jenius.

In this picture, there's two tabs below the wings that *look* like they should tab there but aren't---is that what you're talking about?

Complementary question...

The fast packs on the 17 can stay on for transformation...but when it fighter mode, do the leg clips that open and extend beneath the wings...clip on to the wings at all?

I've watched one review of them and they just hang there loosely, only plugged to the leg. It *looked* as if they could snap on some part of the wing as well, thus becoming highly secure, but the reviewer didn't utilize that or that feature doesn't exist; which is correct?

The hip joints only rotate one way to get into position for battroid mode [can't remember which way], and they have to be fully extended in order to do so.

For me, the hardest parts to move on my VF17S were the front landing gear covers, the damn cockpit and the rear landing gear covers. Everything else I could do without much fuss, although it was still very tight.

Is the general consensus that the D was stiffer or looser than the S?

All's well...but the VF0D is THE hero valk of Macross Zero.

Shin only got a VF0A with ghost in the final episode, and that thing got its head blown shortly after he first transformed into battroid.

So even though it's not a final battle valk, VF0D is still a main hero valkyrie. It's the VF17D of Zero

Too much worrying people.

Folks missed VF27 with FP preorders.

Folks missed VF 171 CF preorders.

Folks missed the YF29 Isamu preorders

Likewise for the CF VF25, and RVF 25.

This Ozma valkyrie will be available after release, at retail. I have faith.

Don't feel sad.

Seeing as the price for the VF17S has been discounted on that very same amount for over a YEAR, I don't see the D's getting discounted soon.

You are systematically going around threads of 200-300 USD toys complaining about high prices in a fandom so niche that even the cheapest toy is over 150 USD barebones retail. Which to me seems less like an active complaint and more like trolling.

I'm not arguing whether or not these prices are high or not. In a world where 30 GBP fills up my fridge with lunch and dinner for more than 3 weeks, 180 GBP for a collectible piece of plastic with metal IS high. Yes, I did the conversion from USD to pounds for you.

However, this is a hobby and I've embraced it as it is. Would I like a YF19 at 120 USD? For sure. But unlike, say, Optimus Prime, who has become an icon and has hundreds of thousands of figures releases each year [talking about production numbers] and can afford to stay in the 20-120 USD neighbourhood, Macross items cannot.

You probably missed the part where this fandom actively waited out on the VF17 and VF19 variants because by that point, it was systematic that retailers would heavily clearance the product. Then, Yamato went under and everybody panicked and started buying these at retail price. And higher. And aftermarket prices soared. What you're seeing "collecting dust" is what's left, and there's not that many. Only 2 online stores I know of still have stock of the VF17D.

As I said before, if you want sensible pricing, I'm pretty sure you can find better hobbies than plastic toy collecting. On a fantastically limited fandom, nevertheless.

$331.40 original price... crazy. I suspect that HK Collectibles has a number of these collecting dust so if you don't absolutely must have one today just wait for the price to drop down to ~$125 before buying.

FFS stop going around threads and complaining about prices.

Better yet, do some damn research of your own.

http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00235/Sci

The HK collectibles price is a typo, or they upped the price on their own.

Original retail price WITH fast packs was 29.600 yen, which according to today's exchange rate is 292 USD. Below your d*mn 300 USD nagging limit.

Happy now?

As for the prices on the VF17D, VF17D with fastpacks and pretty much everything bar the VF19S and VF19 Kai, you can thank the mass hysteria that overrun people when they thought Yamato would close down and no other company would get Macross products like these, so everybody and their mother suddenly started paying crazy prices because "they're going to disappear".

A petition is next to useless. Come on, online petitions for hasbro and transformers, with fans numbering in the tens of thousands are laughed at.

A petition with...generously a 100 fans from here?

The most effective way to complain about the price is to NOT buy the damn thing. But I can assure you, next to you not buying this thing, there's 2 fans who wanted a transformable VF0D ever since they first saw episode 2 or 3 of the OVA, and who like Yamato's offerings enough to trust them with a new release.

Furthermore...it's *one* new mould per year. Ignoring the VF1 re-releases, it's one release per year. If you put a dollar aside each day, you'll have that money in one year.

When they start churning out 4-5 300 USD releases per month, THEN we can have a talk.

On the other hand, the VF-17 is pretty much a plastic tank. It uses significantly less die-cast, and isn't as pretty, but it's solid as a rock. It can still be a beast to transform correctly, but it's actually enjoyable, because I don't feel like I'm fighting against mechanisms that don't want to fit right, and I'm not worrying about scraping paint off all the time, or the wings flying off.

I'll admit, I'm biased toward the Yamato designs, because I just prefer the simplicity and functionality of their designs over Bandai's mess of overcomplicated mechanisms. It's the same thing for all the Bandai valks really, I just don't enjoy transforming them.

I was under the impression that Yamato's VF17 had much more die-cast and heft over the 171.

Considering that for 50 USD You got the VF1 fast/strike packs, half of which had removable covers with detailed interiors, a plethora of customizing options via stikers, missiles versus the VF17 FP, yes, that's my beef.

It's not that the VF17 with FP doesn't look nice. It's that its original retail was pretty steep, considering what such retail got you from the very same company.

And as you said, they both look great and pose well---little doubt about that. However, especially following the VF19, they aren't such fun toys to handle and certainly not very fun, as our friend asked.

Both variants [bandai and yamato] look great. Yamato's has that thick 90ies animation simplicity charm, Bandai's has this very modern and angular design.

Perhaps somebody with better experiences can chime in and try to persuade your mind towards the good side of either toy.

Or perhaps because the VF19 is my favourite transformable toy, ever, I'm kind of indifferent to battroids that don't lock everything into place, or very limited leg articulation in battroid.

Since the VF17D is one of my favourite designs, I'm seriously hoping for a better toy down the road.

If you want something that's very fun to play with...don't bother with either toy.

Seriously.

The VF171 from bandai appears to be very, very fiddly to transform. End result looks very nice, but the fiddliness and the perpetuity of bandai's offerings to get loose joints without being touched worries me a lot.

The VF17 from Yamato is bigger, very heavy...and again, fiddly. The battroid mode isn't as poseable as you'd want to be, and after being spoiled from the VF19, the way the backpack and legs get into position reminds me of the older YF21. Legs are overly long for battroid mode. Shoulder pylons get in the way of arm movement a lot. Because it is ridiculously tight, you can't transform it easily at all in the first few tries. You can seriously break the cockpit or the landing gear doors. Gun placement on the back of the legs makes both the legs suffer and the gun. Due to the weight, the legs don't really lock onto the backplate in fighter mode, and they can become unhinged if you pick it up. They stay clipped on just fine if it rests on a surface.

Bandai's VF171 has much, much better fast packs, but the way they engineered the wings that pop off to be replaced, plus how heavy his gun on the right arm is, combined with Bandai's joints loosening for no good reason...little longevity on this sucker.

Yamato's VF17 fastpacks is just robbery in your face. Around 50 USD, if you're lucky, for 4 pieces of plastic that don't even have internal detailing.

I had a 17S that I sold this December, the thing was barely transformed 2-3 times and left in its box forever.

Hopefully my message will make you think better about a potential 200-300 USD mistake. At least if you get the bandai valks, you might be able to get your money back if you sell it.

The guy has nothing and is a rude little dirty troll to boot.

The price of the YF-19 is stupid as in stupidly overpriced... yeah you go ahead and pay that much money for some pieces of plastic I however will not.

Are you for real? Did we read the same replies from the same person?

He said it'll probably cost the same as the YF19, more or less the same size and have lots of accessories.

YOU reply "no that's stupid".

HE replies "How is it stupid, just because it's out a few's price range?" and goes on to explain precisely why he thinks it's going to cost that much.

To which YOU reply "You must be drilling up a lot of oil there in arizona but for the rest of us who are not filthy rich we will not pay those crazy prices demanded by Arcadia"

Now tell me, who the F*CK is the rude little troll?

You don't want to pay 200+ USD for figures? You're in the wrong hobby. Ever since the VF1 V2.0 by Yamato prices have only been going up, both by Yamato/Arcadia and Bandai. In return, they offer a lot more with each package [VF19 has lots of metal and is huge, VF17 is loaded with metal, VF4 possibly has more parts than 2 VF1 and so on].

If figure prices go north of 500 USD retail, *then* we can have a talk about expensive products and lines. For a line that gets out one new mould per year, is 300 USD too much for a hobby? In a year? That's less than 30 USD saved aside per month.