Sundown

Phalanx, I think a lot of us are still confused here. Can you explain why the VF-0 isn't close enough to what you're looking for? If you look at it, it's basically a VF-1 with a surface overhaul. What about it disqualifies it to you as a "VF-1 redesign", when pretty much any VF-1 redesign incorporating modern aesthetics would look extremely similar to the VF-0? Even the VF-1SOL you pointed out earlier looks a lot more like a VF-0 than a VF-1. So, again, what makes the VF-0 not good enough? If you could explain that, maybe folks could understand what exactly you mean by a "redesigned VF-1". Because every time you describe it, it sounds to me and everyone here like you're exactly describing a VF-0, as far as looks are concerned, except for one little numerical difference in their designations. Do you want an "unofficial Kawamori VF-1 redesign" so you can imagine that that's how it really looks like in your personal version and vision of Macross, where in that version, the "boxy" VF-1 never existed?

Actually, it's more akin to comparing a decent sushi dinner that some just don't have a taste for with a good prime rib that's unfortunately served with a pretty revolting creamed spinach. Reba = spinach. I'm like a shark! I just gotta... Okay, I'll quit. Apparently only one other person here reads Penny Arcade.

Okay, thought your main problem with the VF-1 was that it was shaped too much like an 80's fighter, with two distinct semi-rectangular intakes. If not, then I assume by boxy you're talking about the upper fuselage/battroid chestplate. Well, for what it's worth, those "boxy" edges really became more pronounced in DYRL. In the original TV series, and some of the box art for models based on the TV designs, those edges are actually rounded out, along with those little vents on them that are above the intakes. Kawamori made them boxy later, and it's just an artistic liberty he took in his own update to the design. I don't think that feature makes the VF-1 look dated as much as the fact that it resembles an F-14 rather than a F-22. And "boxy" isnt' really a good indicator of design era. The Superhornet is actually heck of a lot boxier than the original F/A-18. Just take a look at its intakes. But it's a newer and more modern design.

The issue some might have with what you've said isn't because you're being selfish. It's because your statements about Asian countries and their sentiments are wholly inaccurate. They would actually be delighted if Japan would waste extra effort and resources building planes that look like they belong in cartoons rather than concentrate on building aircraft that are cheap, functional, and efficient. Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be. The Japanese government, military, and their aeronautic engineers would likely be the first to agree. Err. SK does not know "all the technical aspects of aircraft." That would make him an aeronautical engineer, which is what he actually dropped out of doing presumably from a lack of interest. It also suggests that there was still more for Kawamori to learn before he quit. As great an artist as Kawamori is, you're giving him much more credit than he's due, and you're giving engineers much less credit than they deserve. Actually, it's more like hiring Jim Lee, a comic artist, to perform cosmetic surgery on you because you need a nosejob. Jim Lee was a medical school student who dropped out to pursue a career as a comic artist. He's considered amongst the best, and as a result of his schooling, has a great sense of anatomy in addition to knowing what makes people look good. But he simply does not have the skill and technical knowledge needed to perform cosmetic surgery. And likewise, Kawamori doesn't have the knowhow needed in order to design real, efficient, functional aircraft that maximize performance over aesthetics. I'm like a shark! I just gotta... keep making analogies!

Actually I 've done a 1/60 GBP and posted at the custom forum a while ago. But it seems that post has been out of the pages. I am reposting them again. Yes!! Why didn't they do this scheme instead? It fits the Low-Vis 2, it fits the CF, and it's even canon! ARrrgh.

Actually, I don't think SK should do much of anything with the M+ design. I'm happy with them as they are, although I do wish they had more style commonalities with stuff from SDF. Err. The VF-1 is "inspired" or "based on" the F-14, the foremost fighter of its day in the 80's, just as the YF-21 is inspired by the real YF-23 and the VF-17 is based on the F-117. In fact, both of these "futuristic" designs bear much closer resemblance to their modern day inspirations than the VF-1 does to the F-14. Like JB0 says, they don't look futuristic. They look modern. They look as futuristic as the F-14 did in the 80's, and they'll be out of date the exact same way, unless design aesthetics somehow stagnate in the next three decades. The only difference between them is that you didn't grow up with the F-14, so to you, it's "old", and that it is no longer a bleeding edge design. But the YF-21 and VF-17 will be just as dated in 20 years and just as out of place for something designed in the 2030's. Of course, at that time you'll think they're fine and should be left well enough alone, while someone much younger demands an update because stealthy facets and offset angles were sooo 1990's.

Mari's Songs, great. Fun, catchy, and it's not Reba. Yes, it's a little dated, but all pop gets dated. The Macross soundtrack? Parts of it really don't work for me... especially the main theme. To me, it's too corny and 70's-80's Japanese-y, which to me, dates really quickly and is hard on the ears of someone used to Western music unless you've grown up with it. It just doesn't fit my musical aesthetics of less is more, and uses a whole lot of notes in a short period of time as a main motif. I admit that I got more used to the theme over time, but whem I'm honest with myself, it still sounds kinda hokey. Yes, I actually like much of the Robotech soundtrack better. Of course, I grew up with it, but there are some themes that really work that I was dissapointed wasn't in Macross. The RT Zentradi theme is a lot more ominous and brooding to me than the almost obnoxious WAAA WAAA WAAA! that's played when the Zentradi come out of space fold in Macross. I guess I'm of the exact opposite opinion of both of ya. The main theme and its related symphonic pieces manage to date in a way I don't think orchestral pieces should. But most of the rest is pretty good or at least serviceable since I don't notice it most times. I don't think it's just Robotech's nostalgia and my fear of change that makes me like parts of its soundtrack more. I prefer Macross in almost every other aspect except the characters don't speak my native language (no, I know about the new dub-- IMO it's inadequate), I actually like RT Roy, and throaty Max was hard getting used to since there isn't a pretty-boy-with-booming-voice archetype in Western culture. I know some folks think the Macross theme fits perfectly, but I know when I watched it, I wasn't expecting high-tech fighter robots and unscrutable aliens fighting to slightly hokey, Japanese folk-accented music from the 80's. I know, I know. What else could I have expected?

Fly by wire and fly by computer are used to make airframes that are only semi-airworthy or difficult to control flyable. But these airframes are unstable as a result of extra functionality they offer-- better maneuverability, stealth capabilities, high angles of attack, etc. These are actually useful features. But fly by wire is not used to make anime fans happy simply because it can. "Looks like such and such out of this anime" is not an actual useful functionality. It might be surprising, but anime fans are not the customers aeronautic engineers of military aircraft generallly cater to. They cater to governments and militaries, who care primarily about economy, speed, maintainability, and how well their aircraft kills people and breaks things. Any part of the design that doesn't actually help one of these areas is generally something they're not going to spend time and money on.

If you wanna be serious about this, then SK needs to remake Macross Plus, DYRL, and Macross 7, because all of the Valkyries in those series look as if they were made today or in the the late 20th century, instead of in the 2030's. None of the Macross valkyries look like they fit their timeframes, because all of them are based on today's designs, even though they're supposed to be from the future.

Just don't let it get shorted to Yaoi.

Or even ... MG VF-1 Version Katoki. 376315[/snapback] *Stabs you.* Gundam Wing didn't have to take it so literally.

Most of that panders specifically to adolescents, and younger audiences are in for a surprise if Marvel is actually using a kiddified UA cartoon to sell young kids comics. And heh, you don't have to be self-righteous to find at least some of the above annoying. I might be getting to be an old stick-in-the-mud, but it's still refreshing to read something that doesn't need much of that to tell a good story. And it's a little frustrating to see certain heroines and female characters cheapen and turn into skanks with powers over the years.

The question is, what type of trees could survive the thin atmosphere and radiation of a planet that has such a weak gravity. Wait, didn't the VF-0 have some form of armor? I forgot if it was stationary or managed to hover. 376304[/snapback] They were fighting on Endor.

Wouldn't. This. Be. The. VF-0? *head explodes* Or even the VF-2 for that matter. Just think of either as a redesigned, improved, updated VF-1. Because that's exactly what they *are*. For what it's worth, the VF-0 as I understand it, isn't exactly a VF-1 predecessor or prototype. It seems to be concurrently designed with the VF-1, maybe even started a bit after (not sure about this) as a testbed prototype for new technologies. And in continuity, the VF-0 was operational in limited numbers even before the VF-1 was mass produced. Again, what confuses me is why in a redesign, you require it to be named after a design that you don't like in the first place. Especially when something close to what you want already exists in the form of the VF-0 and 2. Unless you're talking about a redesign that's altogether new, something like a VF-1, but without some of the more extreme changes made in the VF-0. I wouldn't mind seeing that either. But it's not going to be a VF-1. Maybe a VF-1 Prime, or a Kawamori sanctioned VF-2, but not a VF-1.

Nice stuff. Except you included the womanizing Fett scene from SE Jedi. So now I must stab you. *stabitty stab*

I'm one of the few that actually kind of like the LV2, but that lime green is nasty. I think they would have been much better off doing a CF-tan GBP. It's canon, it goes with the CF, and it would work on the LV2. Sigh. But that'd actually make too much sense.

Ya ever take a look at Batman:Year One? It's more Miller. I'd just finished it and think I might have enjoyed it more than Dark Knight Returns. It's pretty much Batman Begins, and a few of the jokes and moments from Begins are straight out of Year One. I have to say that I really dug Year One's art, maybe even more than Miller's own evocative but rough artwork.

Aeronautic engineers rarely design something based on a design that wasn't designed by an aeronautic engineer. And an aeronautic engineer's primary concern is how well something flies, rather than getting something that looks neat but doesn't actually fly well to fly. Ie, designing planes to look like one out of a particular anime serves no one except anime fanboys, and that's really not their job or business.

Because we don't understand why a design, that for all intents and purposes is pretty close to what you want, has to be actually be designated "VF-1" for you to be satisfied. If it's so you can somehow erase the actual VF-1 from your preferred private continuity, and so you can pretend it never existed, that's not gonna happen. =P And the VF-0 is a VF-0 because it's designed for a prequel, and because Kawamori doesn't want to eliminate the VF-1 from continuity like you seem to hope he would. But outside of Macross continuity, in this very real world, it's Kawamori's redesign and update of the VF-1.

Sounds like an automotive lubricant that also takes out pesky grass stains.

I'm guessing that's because to you, "more futuristic" automatically looks better, and newer is automatically better than anything before it. Not everyone agrees, and there are folks who dig classic cars over their modern incarnations. Some of us still feel that the VF-1 is the best designed fighter, artistically, proportionally and aesthetically, and that smoothing out curves in the name of "making something futuristic" doesn't automatically make it look better. None of Kawamori's designs are more simple and more elegant, and it's still the most pleasing design in all three modes. I personally like the YF-21, but the VF-1 beats it by a long shot in my opinion. That VF-1SOL looks like a VF-1 or VF-0 with more junk stuck on it, and not in a good way. If you want an example of an updated VF-1 that doesn't look poop, then take a look at the VF-2's from Macross II. But to ask the original to be redesigned, even if it is an anachronisitic design for the timeline, is, well, kind of silly. Because if we follow that line of thought, *every* valk in Macross is anachronistic and should be redesigned eventually. Even the futuristic YF-19 and YF-22 are based upon real life designs from over a decade ago. There's no way a variable fighter designed in 2030-something would resemble either the X-29 or Northrop YF-23. Nor would it resemble the F-117. And the VF-11 looks less sleek than even the F-22. If you have a problem with aesthetics fitting the timeline, don't just pick on the VF-1. Pick on all of them. But my guess is that the VF-1 looks the most out of place only because modern design conventions have passed its aesthetics by, and because we now have a better idea what something designed in 2009 would look like. But if Kawamori were to redesign the VF-1 to look modern enough to your liking, he'd end up having to redesign all the Valkyries to be that much more advanced looking over the original. I say Kawamori should just design new fighters and leave the original well enough alone. I wouldn't mind seeing a VF-1++ or something to that effect, but I don't want yet another redesign overriding the original's place in the Macross storyline.

Oh duh. I don't know what I was thinking. I read the both of them everyday back to back and got one confused for the other. =P

Yeah, I concede that part of the reason for omission might be because it's trying to be faithful to the adaptation. I had thought that it was a totally original work written recently. I'm curious now about reading the novel for myself, if there's a translated version. But like I said, the transition to animation itself inherently wears at the faithfulness, and the two probably would read/view very differently, at least to me. I'd guess I'd disagree about injected commentary not flowing. And German filmmakers seem to be able to offer a love story, show German suffering and point out German responsibility all in one movie, artistically even. In fact, they just did. =)

Sigh. I'm not putting any pro-Japanese slant on GOTF. I think I've been pretty clear on that. I'm simply stating that GOTF reflects a Japanese psyche that tends to focus on avoiding war as the primary evil rather than looking at the evils of real actions that come before war. And the shame that comes with facing and taking responsibility for these acts, in and of themselves, apart from "war", might play out in Graveyard-- although I've come to accept that this might also be because it was an adaptation of real memoirs. And in using WWII, GOTF makes a true but incomplete statement. It isn't war by itself that's responsible for innocent suffering. It's the actions that lead to war that are. And here, with this specific war, it's causing other innocents to suffer that escalates such wars in the first place. In the end, the novel wasn't written expressly to show the evils of war. It was written by the author who was dealing with his own guilt over his own sister's death. War being seen as an evil was just a natural byproduct of that. But if the animated GOTF did switch focus from the author's reflections to inject a stronger anti-war message of its own, then it becomes fair to look at the actual war it uses to base its argument on. Of course the Peace Park isn't there to absolve Japan of responsibility for its own suffering. But it does focus on a victim mentality as the motivator for avoiding war. It doesn't begin to address why the bomb was dropped nor the injustices that committed by Japan before it. It only says, "avoid war or we suffer" in vaguarities. All attention is upon Japan's suffering, rather than any of the many more that suffered due to Japanese cruelty. Am I suggesting that the memorial be torn down in some sort of perverted fairness? No. But for the aggressors and losers of a war, Japan's acknowledgement for its past actions and its many victims is notably lacking. At least it's notable when we compare Japan against how Germany sees itself in WWII. I don't think observing this, saying so, and noting how this plays out in Japanese culture and possibly in Graveyard is the same thing as accusing certain Japanese artists of being insidiously pro-Japan.

VgCats fan? I'm not so sure I dig the new coloring. I rather liked the old black inks.