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I don't think the male/female ships have different styles in the series, do they? (Ships, not mecha. Only girls get Q-Rau; boys have N-Gers. But the mecha style is similar.) In DYRL the Meltrandi have different styled ships, similar to Macross, but in SDF Macross the Macross is a Supervision army ship. Bodolza and Laplamiz were alive at the time of the conflict with the Protodeviln?

I found the script to the episode (actually #37) here, among other places. I didn't find any reference to male/female Zentradi being used by opposing sides, or of the need to reintegrate them after the war the ended. A cursory look over the following episodes' scripts and some of the Encore & Movie scripts (but not Dynamite or Trash) didn't turn up anything.

Shhh! That's a whole other can of worms!

I agree with your first point. Actually, I'd simply extend it to "our side will always be the best". You almost never have a war or conflict narrative where in the end, the protagonist is really unable to overcome his/her adversary. Due to the nature of the Macross story, it's also necessary for the Valkyrie pilots to be able to hold their own against superior numbers of Zentradi throughout the narrative.To an extent it's a needed fictional convention, but there's no doubt also a good deal of ethnocentrism/speciesism tied up in it. I think we generally acknowledge these meta-reasons and then, for fun, we see if we can find an in-story rationale to explain it. On the second point, though, it's simply a major premise of the story that the Zentradi are vulnerable to "cultural attack". We don't really need to rationalize it; enough explanation is provided in context and we can either accept it or reject it. I do agree that this premise is also a bit chauvinistic and wishful; it's comforting to think that human culture and emotions are special, and that they could somehow enable humanity to survive even against fantastic odds, but in light of our own history we should at least be skeptical of the notion.

Thanks for the reference. I still don't see why it was necessary to create males and females. Why not just create males, then re-integrate them after the fighting was over? Unless Z males somehow would need Z females? Why couldn't they mate with PC females? (I suppose the fact that all their progeny would likely be male could be a factor.)

Okay, so we really haven't answered why Zentradi were created in both sexes. (Although I've offered one guess: the two sexes have complementary abilities.) By the way, what is your source for "males were used by one side, females by the other"? Regarding your second point--point taken. The Protoculture didn't just clone, they also engaged in genetic engineering. On the other hand, that doesn't mean the production systems used by the Zentradi are the same as the engineering tools used by the Protoculture.

There's also a possibility I sort-of alluded to in my comments on the Zentradi cloning process--perhaps the early Zentradi were very high quality indeed, but after the fall of the Protoculture, the cloning equipment fell into disrepair and the raw materials (in-vitro media and nutrients) could no longer be produced with high levels of purity. It would be as if you were making copies of the Mona Lisa using a color copier with a dirty glass, cracked mirrors, spotty lens, and dried-out toner. As well, isn't it implied that the Zentradi often have to make do with old equipment, and that some of their equipment lines can no longer be manufactured due to the destruction of their factories? This is certainly the case with the Glaug, according to the Compendium. The overall picture is one of a long, slow decline in equipment quality and no innovation until after SW1. The same may have been true of the personnel as well.

Well, they both ended up marrying an alien... I'm not so sure the Q-Rau is unarguably superior to a Valkyrie. (But maybe you're just giving Millia's perspective.) I just thought of one more Zentradi disadvantage, at least in SDF Macross and DYRL. For much of the action, their rules of engagement didn't allow them to go all-out, although Khyron (cough...Quamzin) often disregarded this order.

Okay, I know next to nothing of what is revealed in M7, but are you saying that the Protoculture's civil war was between male and female, with each sex creating its own race of giant humanoid warriors? If so, thanks, that clears that up nicely. Hm, according to the "official" chronolgy, Zentradi were created before the Protoculture civil war. So what is the source for the claim that male and female Zentradi were created independently by opposing sides in the Protoculture's civil war?

Is a crusader the Battletech equivalent of a Valkyrie with GBP-1A armor? (Is it specifically a VF-1A?)

Okay, I know next to nothing of what is revealed in M7, but are you saying that the Protoculture's civil war was between male and female, with each sex creating its own race of giant humanoid warriors? If so, thanks, that clears that up nicely. On your second comment, I don't see how the sophistication of the technology points in any particular direction--the most sophisticated technology would produce the best results, regardless of the technique.

Sorry for the mistake, you are of course correct. And as well, regardless of the method of reproduction, a "reproductive fitness sieve"--whether natural selection or selective breeding--is an important way that harmful mutations are eliminated, and beneficial ones preserved and disseminated. However, if I'm not mistaken, the main benefit of sexual reproduction (from a biological standpoint--we're all aware of the esthetic benefits, hm?) is that it both speeds the dissemination of beneficial mutations and helps suppress harmful ones. (Side note: I think I remember reading or hearing that many protozoa which don't reproduce sexually still manage to swap genes to some extent.) (Edit: omitted "protozoa".)

We had a 1/60 destroid gimmick thread going a few days ago but nobody mentioned working floodlights. I agree it would be a good gimmick. (Although my favorite is still support vehicles.) Irishman--you know the 1/72 destroids (and 1/100 and 1/200) show up on ebay all the time, don't you?

Okay, I agree that making copies of copies would be a bad idea. We could postulate that the Zentradi have a way of preventing copying errors or of detecting faulty clones and either discarding them or at least marking them as unsuitable for further copying. However, as a general rule, without sexual reproduction, errors will build up. (I don't know how protozoans manage to avoid this problem.) Still, I don't see why we should necessarily assume the Zentradi are made from pseudo-sexual reproduction ("mixing DNA as needed to create new soldiers from any two given soliders"), or why we should need to see "visable means of storing clone sample DNA". Where are Zentradi individuals created? Generally not on the battlefleets, it would seem. The Zentradi could be created from a master library at various centralized locations. Nightbat and Keith do raise an interesting question: how to account for the variability between Zentradi individuals? To which I'd add, if they weren't intended to reproduce sexually, why did the Protoculture preserve both sexes? One possible set of answers to these questions could be that (a) the sexes complement each other in combat skills; (b) the master clone database is enormous, and includes a great variety of individuals based both on specialized roles and a general principle that excessive standardization of genotypes could result in a massive vulnerability. (E.g., the way that the massive standardization of Windows PC's has made us vulnerable to computer viral epidemics.) Also © the reproduction system may be imperfect, either tending to introduce genetic errors or often providing a less-than-ideal "prenatal" environment. Thus, even though all the Zentradi may be copied from a finite set of master blueprints, the copies may show some variation in appearance and "quality". Furthermore, even identical twins can develop somewhat differently on their way to adulthood; this may contribute to why Millia is at least a couple standard deviations above the typical Q-Rau pilot. On the other hand, Keith could be right; or perhaps rather than using two existing Zentradi as sources of DNA, the manufacturing system builds each Zentran's genome from scratch based on general parameters, but with some intentional or unintentional variability. edit: emoticon appeared where I didn't want it.

Exactly. There are problems with cloning adult mammals using current technology (thus Dolly's health problems and premature death), but there's no reason to believe Zentradi technology (as bequeathed to them by the Protoculture) hasn't overcome that. I see the Zentradi process as most likely being based on a "library" of master blueprints. No DNA "mixing", just taking the blueprint off the shelf and "printing" a new copy. This is based on the fact that the Zentradi and Meltrandi in DYRL all have numbers after their names, implying that each is the nth copy of a master design. I do agree that it's unlikely the Zentradi clone existing individuals. Obviously at one time it must have been possible either to copy the complete genetic makeup of existing individuals or even to engineer a made-to-order set of genes; this would have been the origin of the "library". However, I suspect (albeit without strong evidence) that this capability wasn't passed on to the Zentradi.

There's exactly one episode of Hikaru angsting before joining the military--episode 5. After that he angsts quite a bit more, but never as annoyingly or incomprehensibly as Quess Paraya. (I realize it may not be fair to judge Gundam on the basis of Char's Counterattack--actually I hope one day to check out the original series--but that character has to be the most unlikeable creation I've ever seen in a cartoon.) Random thought related to another theme in this thread--would Yamato do better to package its Valkyries in battroid mode instead of fighter? I have a feeling that by displaying the Valks in fighter mode, the packaging appeals strongly to the hard-core initiates who see a moderately-futuristic airplane, recognize it as a Valkyrie, and get excited over how true-to-life it looks. People who don't know much about Macross on the other hand are liable to just skip past it on the way to the giant robots. Then again, even if Valkyries are displayed in battroid mode, that doesn't really encompass what's truly "sexy" about them (IMO)--the fluid and nearly-believable transformation between several good-looking modes. I wonder how hard it would be to build a few large-scale demonstration pieces which could transform on their own using motors? Can you imagine the effect of having one of them in a display window at a flagship toystore?

That's the first I've seen you mention that multiple Q-Rau versions will be released. Interesting! I hope they include pilot figures. Even though I'll probably purchase just one Q-Rau, having identifiable Max/Millia figures (and a "generic" Meltran) will be a definite enticement to get a complete set.

Ah, but here's where Yamato has an ace up its sleeve: the FP for the 1J are different (TV style instead of DYRL style). Even if they don't come out with Max & Millia 1J's, they can be pretty sure that the collector-fanboys won't be able to resist the urge to own all the variations. Not that I disagree with the basic point that Yamato would be foolish to make as many FP's as VF-1's. Hopefully they've done some market research and they'll get the numbers right.

It would be interesting if Kawamori were to connect this theme to the "controversies" about the Macross continuities, in light of his comments that DYRL and the SDF Macross series are both representations ("folklore"), with their own perspectives on the "actual" events ("real facts") of Space War I. (Sorry about the edit, Agent One.)

You're thinking of the Boeing X-32; the Lockheed X-35 won the JSF competition. Here's a pic: Regarding JSF role, I think it all comes down to affordability (of acquisition and maintenance) and the likely threat. If David's right about JSF's range, that's a big advantage in future conflicts where there is serious concern about accessibility of nearby bases. Unless and until China emerges as a real military rival, the U.S. is looking at conflicts with third-world dictators and militias. These guys have poorly-trained, poorly equipped forces. In this context, the hardest part for the designers and buyers is keeping costs down so we have enough matériel to cover our farflung commitments.

Source?

It's all about Gundam, baby. Sad... but true. Even here (SF Bay Area), I see more Gundam stuff in shops than I do Macross. Another index of popularity...search on "Gundam" over at Google turns up 1,950,000 hits. "Macross" only turns up 471,000. Personally, I've only seen one Gundam film ("Char's Counterattack") and I couldn't stand it.

Not official. Reviewed here (MW forum archives).

How I would love to meet a tennis player who can't humiliate me! On the topic, with the exception of Guld, all the Zentradi were using different technology and different doctrine from the humans, and in fact one gets the impression that the humans in general had a kill:loss ratio considerably greater than 1:1 against virtually all enemy mecha (Regult, Q-Rau, N-Ger, possibly Glaug as well) and fighters (Gnerl).

I don't want to dig out my Comico Macross #1 but I think it was nice in that the pictures looked like cels (were they?) but they were a bit blurry and (possibly because based on cels) not really designed well for a comic book format. Some of the later Comico issues had quite interesting art. I'm thinking especially of #5 (?), which has a very original and artistic take on Minmei and her aunt at the Chinese restaurant. I remember also liking the graphic style of the first issue or so of Masters (though it wasn't anything special compared to that Macross issue #5 or whatever). Still later, the artwork went down the drain entirely.