SpacyAce2012

From my understanding, yes they are. I don't even know if the translations on my old dubbed VHS copies of "Neon Genesis Evangelion" are even close to being correct.

Sorry for the "thread necromancy" folks. Here is what I like about the series thus far (still working on watching the episodes). 1- My beloved VF-11 Thunderbolts. It's a shame to see a bunch of idiots flying them and getting them blown up left and right. 2-The Music. 3- Gamlin and Diamond Force. They just kick ass in those VF-17s. 4- Mylene Flare Jenius. 5- GUBABA! 6- The new Bridge Bunnies. 7- Max, Millia, and Exedol returning to a Macross installment. 8-Veffridas(sp?). The quiet ones are the ones you have to watch. 9- The new warship designs. 10- Basara Nekki. He doesn't seem to be annoying as some reviews I have read made him out to be.

Like I said, it's very fashionable to think this way now. Everything is relative. There are no capital -T- Truths anymore. Everything depends on a point of view. All of which is true, but there is also objective reason, and post-modern moral relativism doesn't totally supplant objective facts despite people behaving as though it does (usually because spouting such things makes them appear to be oh-so-enlightened). Really, my understanding is that former enemies in war often develop friendships later on. There are even individual stories of people paying respects cordially to family members of those they are believed to have killed (in aerial combat especially) with no rancor taking place. And I would daresay that the vast majority of people who lost friends and family in WWII no longer hold a grudge against their former enemies (though I personally know of a rare exception). How many people do you know who behave that way when their loved one was murdered on the street? Again, "murder" and "kill" are two very different words with two very different meanings. The distinction between them is important. To conflate the two is to give up on having any meaningful dialogue about the nature of killing and whether it is ever justified. And again, as is usual with rhetoric like this: That is an overly simplistic way of looking at things masquerading as sophisticated and enlightened fair-mindedness. 367001[/snapback] H, buddy, the fact that you agreed that relativity is a factor to consider only validates my approach to this topic of ours. By their base definitions the words murder and kill have different meaning but they have the same result: life is prematurely and unnaturally ended. It is the point of view of the people analyzing or processing this premature ending of life that will decide whether it was in fact a murder or a killing. Obviously, various people will decide differently on the situation at hand, and you CANNOT confine the definition of an event such as life being taken by another individual or party to literary definitions...It's all relative! In regards to the example you cited using war veterans of opposing factions seeking peaceful terms with one another, do your really think this is how conflicts like those resolve themselves? From time to time that happens, of course, but we don't need to be reminded that not all people involved in these circumstances reach those same, peaceful resoloutions; there are countless other war veterans or people familiar to them, that still believe that their losses were the result of brutal murder from the "other side," and not what you would call a justifiable melee on a foreign shore. Once again, I and my neighbors still contend that the young boy performing his duty in Iraq was murdered; I'm sure that the persons who took his life would say it was a justifiable killing. In summary, my position about war and the taking of life is as follows: killing, murdering, however you choose to label it-the premature ending of ANY life is NEVER justifiable, although usually UNAVOIDABLE, hence the simplistic rhetoric that you won't accept. It really troubles me that some people can actually RATIONALIZE the taking of a life and categorize it-I'm speechless to that point. My mother is an RN at a local Veteran's Hospital. Talking to the old soldiers there allowed me to learn this: a soldier that has performed lethal duties for God and Country will tell you that they did what they had to do, but their actions have stained them and their people for the rest of their days....Murder, kill, what difference does it REALLY make? Why make the question more complicated than it needs to be? Lives were prematurely lost, and any ideas or discussions of heroism is ridiculous... 367219[/snapback] I'm afraid that I am going to have to disagree with you on the part that taking of a life is never justified. I have been involved in a self-defence shooting. The criminal assailant lived and the DA didn't file charges. He decided that it was justifiable self-defence and it never went to court. But it could have ended in a fatality, though I'm glad it didn't. Taking the life of someone who is hell-bent on taking mine, or anyone else's, is justifiable in my point of view. It isn't pleasant to be in that situation where you may have to. If I had killed that individual, I would have felt like crap. But I wouldn't act as if I had the Scarlet Letter tatooed on my forehead for the rest of my life. To say that I would have been "stained" if the felonious assailant had died by my hand is to place an unfair, and unwanted, stigma on me for preserving MY LIFE. There is a difference between murder and killing in self-defence. To say that both are one and the same is equating both as criminal, when in fact, they are not. And no, it doesn't make me a hero. Just a survivor.

Don't forget his other redeeming quality. His love for good booze.

That was my take on Kaifun, as well. I found myself wanting to see a Zentraedi step on that bastard, especially during his ungrateful rant after they were rescued from Kamjin. I despised the character for all the reasons you pointed out above.

Well, there must have been some version of NORAD in the Macross Universe on Earth. I doubt the Grand Cannon and the unfinished Cannons were the only hardened facilities on the planet. That being said, the Zentraedi fleet used energy weapons on Earth. I guess theres the question of how deep you had to be holed up to survive the Rain of Death. And even if you survived, the amount of dirt and debris kicked around, maybe you'd be caved in. Also whether the fire was random or aimed only at areas that were clearly population centers. University labs? Some of those can be pretty deep and structurally designed for internal explosions (i.e. a chemistry building) Research facilities? Nuclear submarine crews? Employees at the various Federal Reserves/Treasury? If the focus of the assault was on major land masses, maybe some island populations made it out? 366902[/snapback] There was a U.N. equalivalent to NORAD. The Alaska defence H.Q. And they had set up shop right smack dab in the vicinity of the Grand Cannon I complex. Nuclear sub crews,maybe. Unless the skippers of the "boomers" recieved coded orders to let the "birds" fly toward any Zentraedi targets parked in low orbit. "Overtechnology"-based targeting systems, I would imagine, would have no trouble picking up those SSBNs after the fact. But attack subs would have a chance, since there was nothing for them to shoot at and they laid low during the assault.

I disagree with the "mortal threat" part regarding the fear Bodolzaa had toward Humans. In his case, it was about losing personal control of his fleet. In other words, it was all about POWER.

" There are no real heroes in war. Only survivors." I can't remember where I heard that quote from. But it rings true in many instances. However, there are people who tackle horrible situations with extraordinary courage and spirit. So, heroes do pop up in war. And in Macross. However, war isn't always about "shades of gray". Gorg Bodolzaa was a genocidal SOB in Macross, and thus, was the "bad guy". The allied fleet (Macross/Adoclass/Direct Defence Fleet) were the definite "good guys". Classic "good vs. evil" scenario. But you do make a good point. The results seen in the aftermath stifle any cause for joyus celebration. No ticker-tape parades. Just the grim work of picking up the pieces and restoring the results of 5000 years of hard work just blasted to hell. But Macross wasn't intended to be entirely a happy story, after all.

So much for this interesting hypothetical discussion thread.

The origins of the Illuminati exposed! They were really a secret cult of the Protocultures!

Well, taking the translation at face value (I have not idea if it's accurate), "The Lost Two Years" (check out this thread) states that anyone not "living underground" was killed. It also states "over 99%" of the earth's population was killed. And there were 40,000 people on the Macross at the end of the war. At mid-year 2002, the US government estimates that there were 6.2 billion people on the planet. Though, perhaps there was less in the the Macross timeline since the Unification Wars might have involved a lot of civilian casualties. But, working with 6.2 billion as the base, the most conservative estimate (.009 -- or less than 1%-- of 6.2 billion) is 55 million survivors. But, that's probably very high. And just doesn't sound right to me. I always thought it was more like 1 million. 50 million is 1/6 the current population of the US! I wonder if that 99% is supposed to be interpreted as 99.9%. . . otherwise, why mention the 40,000 on the Macross as a signifigant number? H 366772[/snapback] The numbers in the zip files you posted jibe with the timeline. But I agree that 40,000,plus any surviving military personnel, would be a drop in the bucket. The 500,000(to one million, although this may have been retconned) does make more sense. And as I pointed out, most survivors seem to have been in space/lunar base facilities. Although, it seems, that the "space colony clusters(bunches)" may also have been retconned. I also agree that fifty plus million survivors on-world sounds way too high. The numbers for the Zentraedi survivors would solve the gene pool problem as far as the "cloning" program for Humans goes. I always thought fewer Zentraedi survived than eight million, but I was wrong. I agree that casualties during the U.N. Wars were possibly high, probably in the several million mark. I base this on the fact that the wars seem to have broken out all over the globe, even in areas that hadn't seen conflict in decades. Judging by the images of troops in NBC gear in the original series and Zero, I would guess chemical and bio weaponry saw heavy use. We do know that nukes were used in at least one incident. Other factors would include the deaths resulting from wide-spread civil disturbances and the massive deaths resulting from The Fall. I wouldn't be suprised if the total death toll from 1999-2008 was in the nine digit mark. Still, with a 6.2 Billion population figure, that's not a lot. My math sucks, but I agree that an estimate of 99.8- 99.9% would fit the canon figures a lot closer than one percent.

I've been watching Macross 7 here of late. Despite the fact it's Japanese language only and can only understand part of what they are saying, I have been enjoying it. I like the characters. Basara and Mylene's songs I've heard so far are awesome. The animation isn't top-notch like DYRL, Plus, or Zero, but it's not too bad either. Therefore, I can't understand the near-pathological hate that some of my fellow Macross purists have for the show. Sure, it's different. Singing fighter pilots take some getting used to, but in war you use any advantage you have against the enemy(even if it's off the wall). So, that plot angle isn't too outlandish. Basara's "Fire Valkyrie" variant does look like a damn Transformer. One of my few gripes about the series so far. Basara's singing isn't as terrible as some have related to me in the past. It's just plain ol' Rock music, as opposed to the J-POP girl idol singer. Hell, "Planet Dance" and Mylene's "My Friends" now rank among my favorite Macross tunes. I'm still working gathering my collection and watching them as I go along. I may find something else I dislike. But so far, so good. I was just curious about other forum members' thoughts on the show. Do you like it? Hate it? Or, somewhere in between?

Least favorite episode was "Global Report". I dislike recaps for the most part, but I didn't completely hate the episode. This is due to the fact that I thought it was nice to see an episode focus on Bruno Global for a change. They had to do something for a "filler" episode when they got their extension for the series. Recaps are the easiest and quickest to cook up. I tend to disagree with those who feel that the episodes after "Love Drifts Away" sucks. I feel that these later episodes tended to be superior in terms of animation and it was good to see the "love triangle" heat up.

The Grand Cannon was the most instrumental in the victory at the end of Space War One. Considering the size of the allied fleet in comparison to the Bodol Fleet, the "Minmei Operation" was one hell of a long shot. The Grand Cannon jumped the odds of success up big time. Those morons in the U.N. Armed Forces top brass ended up doing something right,after all.

The problem is that there were, for all intents and purposes, no survivors left on Earth after the end of Space War One. According to Egan Loo's translations of the original timeline, only a few were found in the Grand Cannon I complex. Plus some of the partially constructed Grand Cannon facilities had survivors. The Animego release of the T.V. show does mention that a few civilians were found among the ruins. Despite some questions of the accuracy of Animego's translations of the script, I don't consider this outside the realm of possibility. But they would be in the tiny minority, judging by the devastation inflicted by the Bodol Fleet. A large portion of the Human survivors were on the Macross. That's not counting the survivors in the orbital facilities and the personnel on the U.N. Apollo Lunar Base. I believe that the bulk of the Human survivors of the war were off-world. This made a friend of mine who isn't a Macross fan, but watched the original series and Macross Plus out of curiosity wonder how Earth's civilisation recovered so fast by 2040. The level of colonisation and repopulation just wasn't realistic from his point of view. Even with the mass cloning program. You need a large amount of talent and skills to pull off such a grand scheme. Something that takes a long time to reacquire after such a cataclysm. You have to train people for that sort of thing and experience in the various fields counts greatly. The Zentraedi weren't a very good source of expertise and the remaining Human population wouldn't have the entire cross-section of skills and education needed either. So, I can see his point. The appearence of forest and wildlife at the end of the original series seems to be the result of some sort habitat reclamation project. Evidence suggests that Gorg Bodolza(sp?) razed the planet completely. And the fact that the timeline mentions the widespread cloning of plants and animals lend credience to this. Also, look at the landscape around Macross City in Macross Plus. Considering that Alaska is sparsly populated, such devastation of that region wouldn't seem logical. But it happened. Bodolza wanted to be good and damned sure he nailed everyone, so he glassed the planet. Therfore, I don't think much in the way of natural habitat on the land masses survived. I don't know if 500,000 - one million people would make a large enough gene pool for such fast growth without some mixing of Zentreadi genetic material in a mass cloning program and a healthy amount of assistance from Protoculture biotech methods (in which they apparently did), which would take a great deal of research to decipher. Pre-war Earth-based genetic sciences, while advanced, was still limited in comparison. And with this in consideration, I would think that the cloning program would have started out slow due to a lot of false starts. The only way it could have worked as well as it did, in such a short period of time, was to do it using the exact same methods as was used with the Zentreadi. Churn out clones, with slight variations, using machines and techniques barely understood by Earth science.

Thanks for the link. It answered my question.

Not too long ago, I finally sat down and watched all five installments of Macross Zero, one right after another (it was less disjointed that way). In the final battle in the shadow of the AFOS, I noticed what looked like a MIG-29 with forward canards. You can get a good enough look to tell it wasn't a SV-51 Variable Fighter. No on-line sources I checked mentioned such a modified Fulcrum. Any thoughts or ideas?

Nope. Haven't done it. I've had mine for quiet a while and watched them often. No signs of cracking. But some of my players dislike Volume Three and Seven for some reason. There is a slight pause while playing. But this doesn't happen in all machines.

I voted "undecided". I own the Animego boxed sets, so I don't really see the need to sink money into another collection of the original series. My "Macross Money" is currently tied up in ordering DVDs from Japan(Zero,Seven,etc.). On the other hand, if my Animego disks go bad or if I see super-good reviews on these boards, I may check 'em out.

Yeah. I find myself in agreement with this.

Well , I placed my first order with the folks Keith recommended! I'm positively thrilled! Now, I have to shop around for a multi-region DVD player. I want to thank all of the folks who responded to my questions. You guys are great.

Thanks for the info,Keith. I checked out the site and them seem legit. And they will ship to the good ol' U.S.of A. I have to check with the U.S. Customs Service to see what kind of fees I might have to pay,since the site mentioned that some countries will charge you such. And now for my second question. What do I have to do to be able to PLAY the things? The Japanese DVDs are "Region Two". The United States is not included in this "Region Two." So any advice,anyone? P.S.: Sorry to sound like a damn newbie. But this is going to be my first shot at ordering foreign media material from overseas.

I appreciate the help folks. But everything released in the U.S. so far, such as the Animego boxed sets, I own. I was looking for titles not released in the States yet. Just Japanese material. And it doesn't have to be subbed or dubbed.

A few quick questions here. I am interested in purchasing Japanese DVDs of the Macross series/movies not yet(and may never be) released in the U.S. in subtitled or dubbed format.And I AM NOT talking about bootleg copies,either. Is this legal? If so,does anyone know of any reputable importers of Japanese language only Macross DVDs? There was one site I checked out,DiscountAnimeDVD.com . But the prices seem to be TOO reasonable for Japanese language-only imports. And what would I have to do to get them to play on my DVD/VHS combo player without butchering up this expensive piece of equipment?

You guys are simply amazing,you know that? Now I'm REALLY glad I joined this forum. I hate to think of all the fun I would be missing if I hadn't.